Rooting Power

[roomey]

I trained in wing chun for a few yrs and due to work and other things i had to leave the club i was at ,
Now im back at the club again and taking my training more serious than i ever did before.im trying to develop rooting power by sitting in yee jee keem yeung ma for long periods while doing the siu leem tau(every other day),its been nearly six mths now and i am able to sit for 40 mins at a time.
my question is "Is their a mental side to developing rooting power or is it just purely physical,and roughly how long does it take to gain good rooting power and whats the best way to test rooting power?"

[stricker]

I trained in wing chun for a few yrs and due to work and other things i had to leave the club i was at ,
Now im back at the club again and taking my training more serious than i ever did before.im trying to develop rooting power by sitting in yee jee keem yeung ma for long periods while doing the siu leem tau(every other day),its been nearly six mths now and i am able to sit for 40 mins at a time.
my question is "Is their a mental side to developing rooting power or is it just purely physical,and roughly how long does it take to gain good rooting power and whats the best way to test rooting power?"40 mins in one place! dont seize up dude one day you might get stuck like that FOREVER!!! :D joking aside...

ok well ill come clean ive never spent six months training to sit in wing chun stance for 40 mins at a time but.... a) isnt that just training static muscular endurance (no big deal) and b) rooting skill or whatever might be better worked dynamically eg with a partner, can they put a hand on your chest and push you over etc, do you get pushed over in chi sao etc etc. also i think you can do some stuff with a heavy bag to help develop the skill...

has anyone actually done some testing eg push over in stance then spent loads of time in the stance and then retested themselves and found if it made a difference??

[roomey]

thanks stricker i'll take on board what you have told me.
i've read alot of articles by different sifu's eg Sifu Scott Baker,robert chu,ho kam ming etc and they stress the importance of yee jee stance training in order to keep your centre of gravity sunken.

[AmanuJRY]

thanks stricker i'll take on board what you have told me.
i've read alot of articles by different sifu's eg Sifu Scott Baker,robert chu,ho kam ming etc and they stress the importance of yee jee stance training in order to keep your centre of gravity sunken.

Although, I fully believe that footwork (i.e. 'stance') training is critical, I don't believe 'sitting' in YCKYM for long periods is the best way to train this.

Also, notice I said 'footwork' training not 'stance' training, this is because in stance training, you are developing your ability to stand in one place. One should be mobil and 'root' only when nessisary, otherwise you will make a good target.

[Liddel]

Also, notice I said 'footwork' training not 'stance' training, this is because in stance training, you are developing your ability to stand in one place. One should be mobil and 'root' only when nessisary, otherwise you will make a good target.

This is a very good call.

IMPO there are NO actions in VT that you could call finished actions, without footwork, that is turning or stepping. So while standing in one place does serve to give added ability, it is limited IMO.

You ask "whats the best way to test rooting power"

I dont know about the 'best way' , but here a a few different methods off the top of my head....

Isloated training........

If you want to test your turning -
Stand face to face with a partner, get your partner to make a fist and touch it to your chest - this establishes good distance for this drill.
Then get your partner to punch your chest with his arm only, I.E no stepping waist power, extension of the shoulder (ok maybe a little)

Each time they try to punch your chest turn to one side to let the force GO, if your turning /root and timing are good you will not take on force and be knocked of balance.

If you want to test your stepping -
Stand in one spot, put out an action, say Tan Sao - get a partner to press on your Tan with lots of force, then as you feel the force to much to bare with just your arm structure / power, step the same side leg out to support the Tan.

If you want to test both -
SPAR :D ( or at least Gor Sao )

Of course timing and COG is most important in all of the above.

[sihing]

This is a very good call.

IMPO there are NO actions in VT that you could call finished actions, without footwork, that is turning or stepping. So while standing in one place does serve to give added ability, it is limited IMO.

You ask "whats the best way to test rooting power"

I dont know about the 'best way' , but here a a few different methods off the top of my head....

Isloated training........

If you want to test your turning -
Stand face to face with a partner, get your partner to make a fist and touch it to your chest - this establishes good distance for this drill.
Then get your partner to punch your chest with his arm only, I.E no stepping waist power, extension of the shoulder (ok maybe a little)

Each time they try to punch your chest turn to one side to let the force GO, if your turning /root and timing are good you will not take on force and be knocked of balance.

If you want to test your stepping -
Stand in one spot, put out an action, say Tan Sao - get a partner to press on your Tan with lots of force, then as you feel the force to much to bare with just your arm structure / power, step the same side leg out to support the Tan.

If you want to test both -
SPAR :D ( or at least Gor Sao )

Of course timing and COG is most important in all of the above.

I believe if you are new to the concept of sitting or rooting, that yes you can develop a basic feeling from doing the SLT, but it shouldn't take 6 months of training this way to get that feeling. I would definitely add in some form of partner training (sort of what chi-sau is for), before like stricker said you may turn into a statue.
One drill I like to do (sort of similar to Liddel's), is have one partner throw a WC straight punch down your centerline (while the two of you are lined up facing one another in YJKYM), you catch it with a tan or lop and when forced pivot to allow the force to by (you should feel some force coming into your centerline when you intercept the punch), try not to chase the hand but keep some sort of facing towards the partners body, then after the force is gone punch back towards your partner in the same fashion he did to you, he reacts as you did previous. You can continue on in a flowing manner with the drill, but you have to watch that you don't get a rhythm going and to concentrate on that moment when the punch coming towards you is pushing you off balance, it is at this moment that you pivot enough to redirect. You can concentrate on certain elements with this drill, your upper body alignment, structure, or your lower body alignment and sitting /pivoting.

James

[Liddel]

I must admit when i saw the title of this thread i thought -
"man ive been pracrticing that all weekend ! "

To my surprise once i read the thread, your "rooting power" meant something quite different. :rolleyes:

[Matrix]

To my surprise once i read the thread, your "rooting power" meant something quite different. :rolleyes:Liddel,
Over here the term "root" does not have the same meaning. I'm only aware of what you're referring to because it was a news item during the Sydney Olympics. You may remember that that Canadian team's uniforms were supplied by a company called "Roots". ;)

[Matrix]

IMPO there are NO actions in VT that you could call finished actions, without footwork, that is turning or stepping. So while standing in one place does serve to give added ability, it is limited IMO.I certainly agree with this point. You need to be able to translate any static horse skills to the dynamic aspects of your training. You need to be able to move, and yet maintain the power of your horse.

[sihing]

I think first one should learn to root themselves to connect with the ground. After they have to combine mobility with their root so that the power they use comes intially from the ground, up through the body with output into the one attacking you.

A stance should give you two basic things, stability and mobility. If either is absent then you may have problems..

James

[roomey]

Thanks guys for all your views on stance training..it's good to hear people's different views on stance training . yee jee is the mother stance from which all moving stances originate so i i agree it's good to have a good sunken structure in yee jee in order to advance on to the choh ma,syeung ma,som gock ma,seep ma etc.without being able to keep sunken in these moving stances you will be easily knocked off balance everytime you come across a wing chunner who is able to keep their energy sunken whilst in motion.
I'm from UK England and when i post again i will try and remember that when i mean one thing it might mean something completely different to someone else.
i have found a good article on stance training and stance testing for any one who wishes to read.

http://www.chusaulei.com/martial/articles/articles_root.html

DEVELOP A GOOD FOUNDATION FOR ADVANCED TECHNIQUES.

[Simon]

I trained in wing chun for a few yrs and due to work and other things i had to leave the club i was at ,
Now im back at the club again and taking my training more serious than i ever did before.im trying to develop rooting power by sitting in yee jee keem yeung ma for long periods while doing the siu leem tau(every other day),its been nearly six mths now and i am able to sit for 40 mins at a time.
my question is "Is their a mental side to developing rooting power or is it just purely physical,and roughly how long does it take to gain good rooting power and whats the best way to test rooting power?"

I'm no expert but it fits intuition that a strong root is part of a powerful strike (and block if you wish to block with strength). Sitting for a long time probably teaches your body to sit in the easiest position i.e. least painful. Maybe this is the best position? I don't know. Can you develop the same strength/endurance by the use of weights over a lesser period? Would be great to see some evidence either way.

Also I'm sure sitting for a long time in your stance hardwires the stance into your brain so it can be used when required (- if required?)

From my own experience - make sure your stance is critically assessed by someone in the know regularly if you are practicing like this. It takes a long time to train out a bad habit! :D

[roomey]

I'm no expert but it fits intuition that a strong root is part of a powerful strike (and block if you wish to block with strength). Sitting for a long time probably teaches your body to sit in the easiest position i.e. least painful. Maybe this is the best position? I don't know. Can you develop the same strength/endurance by the use of weights over a lesser period? Would be great to see some evidence either way.

Also I'm sure sitting for a long time in your stance hardwires the stance into your brain so it can be used when required (- if required?)

From my own experience - make sure your stance is critically assessed by someone in the know regularly if you are practicing like this. It takes a long time to train out a bad habit! :D

THANKS SIMON will remember what you've said,stance training is merely just one letter out of the alphabet of wing chun training(if you get my meaning)you must also train hand/ feet techniques moving stances,drills,forms,chi sau,sparring etc.
All of the above will require a good root in order to be performed correctly and also spend as much time as you do on one as the other,it's no good doing yee jee for 5 mins then doing pock sau cycle for 1 hr,yes your pock sau might be good and fast but your stance will be weak.

ITS NOT HOW MANY YEARS YOU'VE BEEN TRAINING BUT HOW MANY HOURS YOU'VE BEEN TRAINING IN THEM YEARS

[sihing]

Roomey,

Read this article also from David Peterson who is a highly recognized instructor from the Wong Shun Leung line. He travels frequently to the UK for seminars, you should hook up with him as I have only heard great things about him from very credible sources. Here you go, http://www.wslwingchun.com/ , go to the article entitled "Get out of the way..and Make them Pay".

James

[roomey]

ARTICLE
Thanks SIHING,
great article will put that site in my faves,will look out for
Sifu David Peterson in the UK.

[sihing]

roomey,

Sifu Gary Lam is also doing a seminar in the UK Sept 9 & 10th/ 06. I would highly recommend that you get to that seminar, as his assistant Ernie may be there also, and he is very very good. Check out Sifu Lam's website, http://www.garylamwingchun.com/ , to find out where it is exactly...

When I trained at Sifu Lam's place in Monterey Park a couple of months ago, sitting or rooting was one of the most stressed things he talked about, for beginners anyways..

James

P.S. there's tons of video and articles on there to enjoy..

[roomey]

Thanks again SIHING
will see how my funds are around the time of the seminar,but i will definately put the date in my diary.
Im new to this site and already im learning alot from peoples different views of training.

[Matrix]

roomey,

If you can swing it, make every effort to train with Lam Sifu. I second James' recommendation. Rumour has it that International Ernie may also make an appearance. That should be worth a few quid...

[stricker]

the cats out the bag didnt realise big E was bringing his assistant with him :p

[chisauking]

No wonder every one is training like CRAZY!

They are queing up to test big E :p

[Ernie]

No wonder every one is training like CRAZY!

They are queing up to test big E :p

See I try and lay low and they keep sucking me back in !!!!!!;)
I think i will leave all the head crackin to my Assistant ;)

ps.... nothing confirmed nothing denied i plead the 5th

[Matrix]

ps.... nothing confirmed nothing denied i plead the 5thLike I said,........... it's just a rumour. :cool:

[spikemike]

Roomy

read this:
http://www.vingtsun.net.au/BLVTMAA%20The%20Stance.htm

sincerely
MiKE

[sihing]

:D Roomy

read this:
http://www.vingtsun.net.au/BLVTMAA%20The%20Stance.htm

sincerely
MiKE

Awesome article, thanks bro..:D

JR

[roomey]

Roomy

read this:
http://www.vingtsun.net.au/BLVTMAA%20The%20Stance.htm

sincerely
MiKE

Thanks alot spikemike for this article ,it backs up everything i was thinking.

If you do not give Siu Lim Tao and this stance the time it deserves, nothing else will work for you with maximum efficiency. You will never really understand your Ving Tsun and each new movement will be harder to perform correctly. Perhaps you never will know or understand true Ving Tsun.