Why CMA Doesn't Win the UFC

[Green Cloud]

You know like a sigh, when one is upset but I guess my humor is to dry fo ya since you are still having a spelling bee.

[unkokusai]

back ground, ok I give ya props on that one it's 3:30 my time and I am typing in the dark but we talked abou internet typing it's basically short hand, were not wrighting a book you understand what I mean none the less.


Oh, come on now! If you care enough to want to have a discussion, how can you not bother with the basics? Everyone makes a spelling mistake from time to time, but you just seem to be lazy (the only other conclusion is less flattering, so I'll leave it for now). Can't you at least take a little care in your writing? :confused:

[Green Cloud]

So I have yet to have a real discussion with ya. Well I guess you get the wise ass award.

[Green Cloud]

As far as spelling is concerned I'm actualy just bad at typing, but like I said I'm not writing a book nor is this a spelling bee.

[Green Cloud]

Petty petty petty shiiiaaat, while you are doing your spell check I'm just posting away, and I have yet to have a real convo with ya well it's time to hit the hay so see ya hate ta be ya:)

[unkokusai]

As far as spelling is concerned I'm actualy just bad at typing, but like I said I'm not writing a book nor is this a spelling bee.

No, that's not it. You are not just striking the wrong keys, you are making spelling errors. Many of them. Attempting to brush it off won't help you.

If you don't care enough to pay attention to your spelling, or at least to use the spell check, why should I believe that you really care about what is being said?

You are obviously very bad at spelling. It doesn't necessarily mean you are stupid (although the "if you don't like kung-fu you are racist" comment did bring that conclusion to mind). Why not face it and try to do something to improve? You will have better conversations and will have done something good for yourself. :D

[unkokusai]

Petty petty petty shiiiaaat, while you are doing your spell check I'm just posting away, and I have yet to have a real convo with ya well it's time to hit the hay so see ya hate ta be ya:)


You don't have to be ashamed, just decide to do something about this problem you have. You can do it!

[mysteri]

ST,

i think ur trying to be respectful and not intentionally disrespectful(although it does kinda have that backhanded feel), so we'll jus leave it at that.

i would agree that maybe my sifu isn't some "great" fighter. but then i would ask u who is? the same type of fighting that mike barry was doing back in the day, both ring and real, was not much different from my sifu's, other than maybe locations. so is mike barry a "great" fighter? a lot of sifu lee's fighting occured in 60's HK/70's states(washington, DC). i'm sure u know these were pretty hot spots for those who thought they were "tough" of course, so it ain't no walk in the park. as a matter of fact, he accepted challenges openly for the first 2 years he was in DC and fought almost every single day, but after about 2 years people stopped stepping up(?) and more and more were signing up...hmm...

but jus food for thought, who are some "great" fighters and how would we qualify them? if u say muhammed ali, george foreman, julio cesar chavez, mike tyson, etc.. yes, these guys have their reps as great boxers. mike mcdonald, maurice smith, ernesto hoost? surely strong forces in K1. shamrock(s), matt hughes, tito ortiz? quite the entertaining MMAist... bruce lee?(et al) definitely good fighter, among a lot of guys who came out of hong kong like that. but what i'm gathering is that unless we take guys like mike barry, mike tyson, mike mcdonald, and bruce lee, and pit them against guys like shamrock (et al) that they are not "great" fighters? if that's not the picture ur painting, then i think we're all a bit confused...

anyway, again i have no need to try and "over" qualify my sifu as again, those who know and who have been around know for sure. but i jus kinda think it's silly to throw conjecture w/o first exploring the facts. unless of course, u feel that ur words here don't really carry much weight anyway, which i wouldn't really disagree. although, i do try to make a personal habit of only saying things on boards that i would be prepared to say if directly in front of that person/group.

glad we both carry the same love and respect for jow ga.

[Pork Chop]

ST00

Sorry if I was guilty of talking around you; I just was trying not to drop any names. When I was living in MD I had to keep my mouth shut about a few things.


mysteri

I, for one, am not all that big on MMA. You know me, I like Thai boxing, San Da, and Western boxing. May do MMA someday, but it's not a huge deal for me. I could be wrong, but I think the major criticism going on in this thread toward kung fu fighting wise is the total disdain for sport fighting. If you and your classmates compete, it's a moot point and the criticism isn't geared towards you. If you're one of those schools that thinks the be-all end-all of kung fu is tournaments, forms, continuous sparring, lion dance, and being too street lethal for the ring, then the sport fighting guys would maybe want you to open your mind. Again, I could be wrong, but I don't think the "anti traditional" viewpoint on this thread is "UFC or bust", but more a "fight if you say you're a fighter" viewpoint.


Green Cloud

Just to help you out with a little japanese lesson (not interested in the name calling):
as stated before- koko = "here"
unkokusai = "**** stink"

[Knifefighter]

. as a matter of fact, he accepted challenges openly for the first 2 years he was in DC and fought almost every single day,

And you know this how?

[Green Cloud]

It's common knowledge, hey he's not my Sifu but I know about it just like most people in the CMA world.

[Knifefighter]

It's common knowledge, hey he's not my Sifu but I know about it just like most people in the CMA world.

A challenge fight day for two years? Think about that. That is over 700 fights. The fact that an instructor is telling his students this (or at least letting this myth propogate) is surely an indication that he is and was no fighter. Anyone who has actually fought knows how ludicrous this claim is. Unless one was fighting seven-year-old girls, dead people and those confined to an old folks nursing home, the injuries would pile up until one was unable to get out of bed.

I don’t know which is worse, an instructor who spews forth with this nonsense or the gullible students and other CMA practitioners who believe it.
700 challenge fights in two years....
Give me a freakin’ break
Can you see why those doing MMA’s have little respect for many CMA practitioners?

[brothernumber9]

The frequency of fights was obviously an exaggeration. But it is attested among DC area chinese martial artists and teachers that he accepted and fought in open door challenge matches when he first opened his school. I wasn't there or trained back then, but some older heads I have met support this claim.

[brothernumber9]

coming from a traditional chinese martial arts school, I'm more inclined to side with more of the viewpoints from so called "MMA'ers" than what some of the so called "traditionalists" have put forth.

[mysteri]

Pork Chop,

Hey man, sorry i forgot to respond to u bro. glad things are going well here, finally starting to step back into training. know what ya mean about the career bro, but these early sacrifices are worthwhile for me.

(posted by knifefighter)
Anyone who has actually fought knows how ludicrous this claim is. Unless one was fighting seven-year-old girls, dead people and those confined to an old folks nursing home, the injuries would pile up until one was unable to get out of bed.

(really? tell that to UFC's jeremy horn among others)

Knifefighter,

first, plenty of old school guys who were there are still around, feel free to ask. second, even if we were being quite conservative, and said it was 1-2 times weekly. let's consider that given ur environment, growing up fighting on a weekly basis is not unusual for almost any kid of a ruff inner-city neighborhood. it was actually jus more of a pass-time even, people wanting to "test their skills" against others. u grow up during ur teens and twenties doing this, and when u come from another country, open ur school, and say ur a fighter, how many people are gonna wanna find out? seems as ur intrest is piqued as well. but more importantly, even if it were a very conservative average of just once weekly over a 10-year period, we're talking a few hundred. i say "almost every day" because the quotes from those guys were,"any day we didn't run into a fight was a good day". sorry that they were not sanctioned, recorded, and televised for ur amusement... but, an amusing fact is that after he (or one of his students) was done beating down whatever [insert tough guy] stylist, he was known for having his students drag the guy out into the middle of the street where an ambulance would later pick the guy up if he couldn't leave on his own accord).

btw- for the record, my sifu tells me straight up,"hey, i didn't 'win' every fight, i've taken my share of losses (jus not bad enough fortunately) and u always have to remember that anyone can get took." but of course, this is also commonly understood.

oh yeah, injuries? yeah, those were not uncommon. he also spent a great deal of his training time(about 6hrs/6 days weekly) conditioning fist/shins/feet, etc... remembering that he was first heavy into burmese boxing, this is not somethin unusual among those guys as i'm sure u well know. thank u for ur interest.

[mysteri]

oh yeah,

i meant to contribute my opinion. i really don't see where there's argument? i can't speak for all CMA schools and CMAist cuz there are definitely a lot who don't pursue a realistically practical level of martial skill undoubtably. i am definitely amused by MMA's and i think it's cool to watch. if i ever feel the need to be validated, qualified, or anything similar, i might jus start entering competitions. it would be fun to do jus for a different understanding of combat, i'm jus not at that point as far as motivation yet. i'm not really sure why some people here might feel so threatened(?), unless someone trains guiltily with unrealistic/exaggerated expectations, then sure they might feel threatened and unsure. but really, for the most part, it's not a big deal. alright, i've had enough amusement for a bit.

[SevenStar]

if i ever feel the need to be validated, qualified, or anything similar, i might jus start entering competitions.

ya know, I think that's where some of the misunderstanding lies. that is why many of you think of mma guys as ego filled - and also, why we see some of you as egotistical. It's not a course of ego - I really don't give two witch titties about what anyone on this forum or real life thinks of my skill. I compete

1. because I like to
2. because I like to test myself

not to prove myself to anyone or validate my skill level. Now, that said:

it would be fun to do jus for a different understanding of combat, i'm jus not at that point as far as motivation yet. i'm not really sure why some people here might feel so threatened(?), unless someone trains guiltily with unrealistic/exaggerated expectations, then sure they might feel threatened and unsure. but really, for the most part, it's not a big deal. alright, i've had enough amusement for a bit.

I do believe that EVERY martial artist should step into a full contact venue at least once. Doing so will indeed teach them about combat and help them gain experience in dealing with an agressor while under extreme pressure. This experience is invaluable in the street, so I would think any MA would jump to take advantage of it. You can say what you want about thinking you may or may not train with unrealistic expectations, but the simple reality is that most people will never have an altercation in their adult lives. Consequently, they don't expect it. Then when it happens, trained or not, there is a chance you will freeze under the pressure of the adrenaline dump because you couldn't deal with it the way you thought you could. Competing comes in handy here.

Matter of factly, someone posted a thread along that line the other day on another forum I post on. A marine who had 9 confirmed kills in iraq - one which was hand to hand combat - got robbed while he was walking with his girlfriend. He said that he just froze. He wasn't aware and wasn't expecting an attack.

[mysteri]

ahh, cool information...

true, most people will not have many altercations in their adult life if any, but of course it's nice to try and aim for preparedness as best as possible, though truly unattainable it may be. so then we as martial practicioners can train for arts sake, technician's sake, attrition's sake, etc... and should not feel threatened or the need to threaten others on it really. pursuing passion is a very personal thing, regardless of ur reasoning. but agreed, jus understand that everyone may not share ur(arbitrary "you") POV and sometimes u have to be prepared to defend it in several ways.

i'm sure that one day maybe i'll train some ring stuff before i get too old. it's kinda one of those things where if work wasn't in the way, i would certainly jump at. but it's not a deep enough passion for me to want to sacrifice a whole lot for it. but i do have a deep enough passion to want to sacrifice for my own personal skill development. drills, conditioning, drills, sparring, drills... touching hands w/ other like-minded/open-minded persons... i don't have much a need to cross-train, but i like to touch w/ other stylists, learn somethin new about myself.

[hungganyc]

This has to be the dumbest thread I have ever read. Martial Arts was not created for sport. The initial question or point of this thread was “Why CMA Doesn’t Win in UFC?”
Who are you talking about and I guess they must represent the entire CMA community? So I guess the UFC is the standard for martial arts now? I have a lot of respect for those guys who step in the ring and test their Martial Sport Skills, but I didn’t start learning martial arts for sport. Some of the best real fighters I know have never stepped into the ring and I’ve been around for a while.

A few years ago I saw a guy lose to another guy in the ring. Later a fight started between the two same guys outside in the parking lot. The guy who lost in the ring destroyed the other guy in the street. So much for his competition skills. Some body should have told this guy before he got his head split open that his competition skills would get him hurt in a real fight. I’m sure there are lots of Sport Fighters who can really fight, but can’t you see the prejudice in some the statements on this thread?

Yeah I know that there are some so called TCMA out there who are more concerned about looking pretty during forms and do not train for real fighting, but you’ll find that in any style.

I’m sure guys on this forum with more than 30 yrs. experience recognize that there IS NO SUCH THING AS MODERN MARTIAL ARTS. Yeah I said it. There is nothing new people. There are MODERN training methods, but there is no such thing as Modern Martial Arts. I know there are a lot of hardheaded people out there who want to believe that there is a difference and those are the ones who need to check their history. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick no matter what you call it.

The main difference I personally see between the so-called MMA vs. TCMA is that TCMA involves more of the traditional etiquette, customs, rules, principles & culture of its’ origin. The problem is that many people have forgotten that the “tradition” in Chinese Martial Arts also represents real fighting

To answer the initial question “Why CMA Doesn’t Win in UFC?” Well in my opinion some CMA or “kung fu” people haven’t formatted their training for sport fighting or UFC. There was mention of Hoi Lee not being a fighter because he sent his student to a coach named Mike Barry to train him for San Shou or whatever. This is an example of my point. Knowing Hoi Lee’s reputation in Chinatown fights, I don’t think it was because he himself couldn’t fight. It sounds logical that Hoi Lee recognized that his particular skills and knowledge at the time were not suited for San Shou competition. This is another problem. Some CMA Sifu’s are putting their students in rings or arenas without the experience of sport fighting. The other side is that some CMA spend more time trying to fight someone elses style rather then putting in the time to learn how to utilize their own.

By the way, I love to watch UFC

[unkokusai]

A few years ago I saw a guy lose to another guy in the ring. Later a fight started between the two same guys outside in the parking lot. The guy who lost in the ring destroyed the other guy in the street. So much for his competition skills. Some body should have told this guy before he got his head split open that his competition skills would get him hurt in a real fight.


LOL

Folks love to take (most often unverifiable) anecdotes and try to draw whatever conclusion fits their dogma from them.


Good stuff.

[friday]

unkokusai

does your name really mean 'stink ****'??

[Green Cloud]

I guess it does:D

[SevenStar]

This has to be the dumbest thread I have ever read.

Likewise, your next statement is one of the dumbest I have read:

Martial Arts was not created for sport.

Now, considering that they weren't created for sport, you notice how muay thai, bjj, boxing, wrestling, etc are martial arts - fairly old ones in some respects - yet they do well in sport AND work on the street. Such is the nature of understanding principles, IMO. If you understand the principles of your style, you can apply it to any venue, street or sport. all you need then is to properly train for the fight. Martial arts were created for combat, and sport or not, this is combat.


The initial question or point of this thread was “Why CMA Doesn’t Win in UFC?”
Who are you talking about and I guess they must represent the entire CMA community? So I guess the UFC is the standard for martial arts now?

you're reading way too much into it. all he asked was why cma has a losing record in mma events.


I have a lot of respect for those guys who step in the ring and test their Martial Sport Skills

martial sport skills, martial arts skills... there really is no delinneation.

A few years ago I saw a guy lose to another guy in the ring. Later a fight started between the two same guys outside in the parking lot. The guy who lost in the ring destroyed the other guy in the street. So much for his competition skills. Some body should have told this guy before he got his head split open that his competition skills would get him hurt in a real fight. I’m sure there are lots of Sport Fighters who can really fight, but can’t you see the prejudice in some the statements on this thread?

not really. the sun even shines on a dog's ass some days - such is the nature of fighting. today I may beat you. tomorrow you may beat me. that's why you train hard, to give yourself every advantage possible over others and make the sun shine less on their ass and more on yours.

I’m sure guys on this forum with more than 30 yrs. experience recognize that there IS NO SUCH THING AS MODERN MARTIAL ARTS. Yeah I said it. There is nothing new people. There are MODERN training methods, but there is no such thing as Modern Martial Arts.

good point. wrestling is older than TCMA. and I see that you are new here. If you take some time out first to follow your own advice and research, you will see that most of us here preach training methods are the difference, not the style itself.

I know there are a lot of hardheaded people out there who want to believe that there is a difference and those are the ones who need to check their history. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick no matter what you call it.

on the same hand, there are a lot of hardheaded people who believe qi blasts, dim mak and groin kicks are all you need to end a fight.

The main difference I personally see between the so-called MMA vs. TCMA is that TCMA involves more of the traditional etiquette, customs, rules, principles & culture of its’ origin. The problem is that many people have forgotten that the “tradition” in Chinese Martial Arts also represents real fighting

I agree with all of that except the last part. cma doesn't really represent "real fighting" any more than any other style.

To answer the initial question “Why CMA Doesn’t Win in UFC?” Well in my opinion some CMA or “kung fu” people haven’t formatted their training for sport fighting or UFC. There was mention of Hoi Lee not being a fighter because he sent his student to a coach named Mike Barry to train him for San Shou or whatever. This is an example of my point. Knowing Hoi Lee’s reputation in Chinatown fights, I don’t think it was because he himself couldn’t fight. It sounds logical that Hoi Lee recognized that his particular skills and knowledge at the time were not suited for San Shou competition. This is another problem. Some CMA Sifu’s are putting their students in rings or arenas without the experience of sport fighting. The other side is that some CMA spend more time trying to fight someone elses style rather then putting in the time to learn how to utilize their own.


Now, THAT was a reasonable statement. And a good one at that.

[Green Cloud]

Shoot Seven i hate repeating my self, there is not enough evidence to substantiate the claim that was made on this thread. CMA people just don't like to associate them selves with anyone but their own kind. Just like the Shaolin say the afairs of the outside world are not our buiss.

If you guys like MMA great do it, why keep on draging us into it. This is just typical some troll ass hole who hates CMA or is a disgruntal toward CMA always has to start some buulshiit thread.

We like to keep to our selves, we don't need you or want your ****ing aproval.
This is the problem here all I've seen on this forum is flame wars started by MMA trolls.

As far as every dog has it's day, that's if youre competing in sports anyone of you green horns ever step to me I'l always win. I have a lineage to protect and at my age I have nothing to prove in the ring or cage or what ever over exploitist comercial events there are. We are just not intrested in that shiit.

As far as fighting is concerned I grew up as a white imigrant in the projects. The brothers beat me up because I was white and the white guys beat me up because I was different.

Don't tell me that street fights don't count, there was never a reff when I fought and yea I got my ass kicked on the regular. That's how I learned what worked and what didn't. Kung fu saved my life and my sanity when I was growing up, and you know what it's not all about fighting it's about karma.

greencloud.com

[unkokusai]

unkokusai

does your name really mean 'stink ****'??


The other way around.

[unkokusai]

Kung fu saved my life and my sanity when I was growing up.


Well, one out of two ain't bad anyway.

[friday]

unkokusai

thanks mate.

can i ask you why is that your nick "**** stink"

[unkokusai]

As far as every dog has it's day, that's if youre competing in sports anyone of you green horns ever step to me I'l always win. I have a lineage to protect and at my age I have nothing to prove in the ring or cage or what ever over exploitist comercial events there are. We are just not intrested in that shiit.


LOL


:rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

unkokusai

thanks mate.

can i ask you why is that your nick "**** stink"


Eh, its as good as any.

[Green Cloud]

hey **** stink how can anyone respond to anything you say. Seriously just take a look at your bio, youre as real as Bugs Bunny.:rolleyes:

[MyDrills]

“Why CMA Doesn’t Win in UFC?”

In my view

1. Most MMA rules are pro-grappler, that's a fact. Its intentionally designed to protect graplers from furious strikers.

2. I havent seen a real kungfu figther in any MMA. Most people think those who practice kungfu are those who concentrate so much on forms. They thought wushu performers are kungfu figthers.

3. Real Kung Fu Fighters for e are those who practice Hungar, Wing Chun, HungFut, ZI Ran Men, Hsing-I, Ngo Cho..etc etc..

The style of fighting are for real and not for MMA w/c are full of rules.
Less rules, more creative, but thats not MMA, thats real reason.

If anyone knows figth club with only one rule like 'Fight will stop when one is hurt',
thats the time you'll see a lot of real kungfu figthers. Maybe I'll be the first one to join!!


Chill!! ;)

[unkokusai]

hey **** stink how can anyone respond to anything you say.


How can anyone understand what you say? Have you started getting some help with your spelling like I told you to?

[Green Cloud]

Yea your mom is helping me with that as we speak.:)

[unkokusai]

Yea your mom is helping me with that as we speak.:)


I hope someone is helping you. You may not realize how poorly you are presenting yourself.

[MyDrills]

Guys, dont derail, stay on the topic please

[hungganyc]

This discussion should have ended many pages ago. As I mentioned before, anyone with experience and even common sense can see the point. I’ll try not to waste too much time on this subject that some of you can continue throwing jabs at each other from behind your keyboards.

Seven quote: Likewise, your next statement is one of the dumbest I have read

me: Hey man why are you so angry? Now you’ve made yourself look dumb because anyone who knows anything about martial arts history knows it wasn’t originally created for sport. Based on your comments you must obviously know the entire history of CMA.

Seven: Now, considering that they weren't created for sport, you notice how muay thai, bjj, boxing, wrestling, etc are martial arts - fairly old ones in some respects - yet they do well in sport AND work on the street. Such is the nature of understanding principles, IMO. If you understand the principles of your style, you can apply it to any venue, street or sport. all you need then is to properly train for the fight. Martial arts were created for combat, and sport or not, this is combat.

Me: Here again you make my point and your too smart to even see it. Of course any martial art can work in the ring and the streets. Your missing the point. Some styles are more suited for the ring than others. Yes, CMA can be adapted for the ring. I agree when you said “all you need then is to properly train for the fight.” I was a boxer & wrestler when I started CMA, so I can adapt my CMA for competition, however it still remains that the way I would fight for real and in the ring are slightly different. I suppose by your statement that you’ve seen “muay thai, bjj, boxing, wrestling“ fight for real and I suppose by your statement that they all fought in the street the same way they fought in the ring :D

Me: I’m just pointing out the prejudice in many of the statements being made on this thread. To generalize all CMA or MMA is dumb and inexperienced. Just because some alleged CMArtist didn’t do well in the UFC doesn’t mean that CMA is not an affective fighting system. Your comparing apples and oranges.
I continue to study & teach TCMA because I’ve found what I’ve learned very effective on the streets. In addition to the fighting skills, I enjoy the meaningful things that go along with TCMA. If you only want to learn how to snap someones head off in one easy lesson then maybe TCMA isn’t for you, but if you have the time & patience you’ll learn a lot more. Where I come from we don’t care how many sport fighting competitions you won or what style you practice. Personally I only want to fight for something meaningful like my life or family because of the consequences.

Seven: I agree with all of that except the last part. cma doesn't really represent "real fighting" any more than any other style.

Me: read it again 7. I said “also” which means to include, not say anymore than anyother style.

Seven: Now, THAT was a reasonable statement. And a good one at that.

Me: Thank you for your approval Seven, you just made my day.

Thanks for your time and have a great day!

[SevenStar]

This discussion should have ended many pages ago.

agreed. I actually, started to close this thread yesterday, but then saw some some good discussion between mysteri and others after the two solid pages of insults.


me: Hey man why are you so angry? Now you’ve made yourself look dumb because anyone who knows anything about martial arts history knows it wasn’t originally created for sport. Based on your comments you must obviously know the entire history of CMA.

It's not anger. It's wordplay. this was the dumbest thread you've read. that was the dumbest statement I've read...



Me: I’m just pointing out the prejudice in many of the statements being made on this thread. To generalize all CMA or MMA is dumb and inexperienced. Just because some alleged CMArtist didn’t do well in the UFC doesn’t mean that CMA is not an affective fighting system.

I agree with that as well. The point isn't about being effective anywhere besides the mma venue, as stated in the title of the thread. And as we both pointed out, that goes back to training methodology

Where I come from we don’t care how many sport fighting competitions you won or what style you practice. Personally I only want to fight for something meaningful like my life or family because of the consequences.

I address that in my post above to mysteri.


Me: Thank you for your approval Seven, you just made my day.


hey, I help when I can. ;)

[SevenStar]

“Why CMA Doesn’t Win in UFC?”
1. Most MMA rules are pro-grappler, that's a fact. Its intentionally designed to protect graplers from furious strikers.

that's not true. the rules favor strikers. That's why they stand you back up if you aren't making progress on the ground. pretty much all strikes and targets are allowable. It doesn't favor grapplers at all. Heck, in pride you can even kick an opponent if he's on the ground and you aren't.

2. I havent seen a real kungfu figther in any MMA. Most people think those who practice kungfu are those who concentrate so much on forms. They thought wushu performers are kungfu figthers.

Green Cloud - If you read this, this is one of those statements I was talking about before.

MyDrills - where are the real guys?

3. Real Kung Fu Fighters for e are those who practice Hungar, Wing Chun, HungFut, ZI Ran Men, Hsing-I, Ngo Cho..etc etc..

that's way too generalized. Some of the suckiest guys I've come across are wing chun guys. on the same hand, one of the best I've come across is a karate guy. And wing chun has lost in major venues in the US on all occasions that I know of. I know a wc school in australia has been having success over there though - if I'm not mistaken, they train wc and grappling.

The style of fighting are for real and not for MMA w/c are full of rules.
Less rules, more creative, but thats not MMA, thats real reason.

that's crap... If you can't fight with a handful of techniques, how can you expect to fight with dozens? Like the saying goes, I'd rather train 10 techniques 1,000 times than train 1,000 techniques 10 times. More isn't always better.

If anyone knows figth club with only one rule like 'Fight will stop when one is hurt',
thats the time you'll see a lot of real kungfu figthers. Maybe I'll be the first one to join!!


in all honesty, no you wouldn't see that. Heck, the fist UFC only had three rules. where were all of the kung fu guys then? If what you say is true, there shoulda been scores of them.

[PangQuan]

"why CMA doesn't Win the UFC"

this is the question posed.

are you all ready for the answer?

here it comes.....get ready....


the right cma guys have not entered. thats it. nuff said.

to denounce cma completely just because the right people have not stepped up to compete would show one to be quite ignorant of the truth.

just because a few, thats right, a few, small hand full, hardly any, guys have stepped up from the cma community to fight in mma, and have lost, does not mean cma is useless. it just means those particular fighters were not up to par, sucked over all, or just have not been training correctly for a long enough period.

from now on, anyone who says cma is weak just because they dont have top rate competitors in ufc, will hence forth be labeled as a total jack ass who doesnt really know how to think realistically.

sure cma isnt in there winning, so what. i dont see any mma'ers dominating chinese circuits. why not? SAME **** REASON.

this is pretty much all there is to this discussion IMO. to think there is more to it than this is over complicating the issue with personal bias desires to create something where there is nothing...

just wait, eventually some cma guys will decide to switch up thier methods and get serious about nhb competition, we know there are a couple who are working on it now...

[hungganyc]

Neilhytholt: So after last week where I was looking for a school, any school, that allowed me to train but didn't require me to learn their version of their forms.

It really hit me. Why doesn't CMA win the UFC? CMA has striking, right? CMA has grappling, right? CMA has kicking, right? So why doesn't CMA win the UFC?

Could it be because of the emphasis on forms, rather than techniques? Could it be that the very premise of CMA is flawed?


Greetings Neilhytholt

i can understand why you would make this statement and i agree that this is a problem in many commercial CMA Schools today in the U.S..

It's well known that in the old days kung fu schools in hong kong, City Chinatowns , urban areas, etc. had to be capable of fighting.

In the U.S. during the early 70's CMA sparred and fought amongst ourselves. We still believed that we had to be able to fight due to the competition or rivalry from other CMA schools, so emphasis on fighting was first. At the same time we stayed private and few foreigners were learning. Few authentic CMA went out into the main karate circuits to fight. The ones who did represented very well. The problem we began to face was that many "fake" or inexperienced so-called Kung fu guys started going out because "kung fu" was the new mystic style to learn. Many of them did a diservice to kung fu because they followed the "Qai Chang Kain" aka David Carradine idea of fighting & kung fu.

Basically the importance or emphasis on CMA fighting began to change during the 90's. With help from the movies, kung fu forms became very popular and most students only wanted to learn forms and not get hit in the eye. Look at most kung fu tournaments, the majority of competitors these days are forms competitors. Many schools are filled with children, whose parents don't want them getting bruises from training and then came the "Yuppies". Commercial kung fu schools had to be more politically correct in the 90's and were very cautious about promoting the old ideas. Had to pay the rent.

During the transition between the late 60' to now alot was lost even in the U.S.
The issues of the old days have changed with the times and so have the priorities.
Now, some of the old school TCMA are still out there in the U.S. today so it's not fair to generalize or categorize all CMA today into one group. In the old days you didn't even bring out your lion dance unless you could fight. When you see the traditional lions come out, you should automatically assume that they are strong and can fight, but that isn't the case these days. When we out for lion dancing in the old days some of us had to carry guns or knives due to the potential threat of rivals. You didn't go out unless you were prepared to fight.

During the transitions from the 60's to now, some of the instructors today using the name "kung fu" don"t actually know how to use their style in real fighting or application.

Questions such as your are actually constructive because it will hopefully force the TCMA to reclaim what they were originally known for and that's fighting & honor.

The idea of a challeng to me has nothing to do with size or any weight class or rules. i should expect anything knives, guns, sticks, or whatever. this was my era.

[SevenStar]

"why CMA doesn't Win the UFC"

this is the question posed.

are you all ready for the answer?

here it comes.....get ready....


the right cma guys have not entered. thats it. nuff said.

to denounce cma completely just because the right people have not stepped up to compete would show one to be quite ignorant of the truth.

just because a few, thats right, a few, small hand full, hardly any, guys have stepped up from the cma community to fight in mma, and have lost, does not mean cma is useless. it just means those particular fighters were not up to par, sucked over all, or just have not been training correctly for a long enough period.

from now on, anyone who says cma is weak just because they dont have top rate competitors in ufc, will hence forth be labeled as a total jack ass who doesnt really know how to think realistically.

sure cma isnt in there winning, so what. i dont see any mma'ers dominating chinese circuits. why not? SAME **** REASON.

this is pretty much all there is to this discussion IMO. to think there is more to it than this is over complicating the issue with personal bias desires to create something where there is nothing...

just wait, eventually some cma guys will decide to switch up thier methods and get serious about nhb competition, we know there are a couple who are working on it now...


it's not that. the right guys can enter and still lose if they are training wrong. It's all about the training methods.

[SevenStar]

Greetings Neilhytholt

i can understand why you would make this statement and i agree that this is a problem in many commercial CMA Schools today in the U.S..

It's well known that in the old days kung fu schools in hong kong, City Chinatowns , urban areas, etc. had to be capable of fighting.

In the U.S. during the early 70's CMA sparred and fought amongst ourselves. We still believed that we had to be able to fight due to the competition or rivalry from other CMA schools, so emphasis on fighting was first. At the same time we stayed private and few foreigners were learning. Few authentic CMA went out into the main karate circuits to fight. The ones who did represented very well. The problem we began to face was that many "fake" or inexperienced so-called Kung fu guys started going out because "kung fu" was the new mystic style to learn. Many of them did a diservice to kung fu because they followed the "Qai Chang Kain" aka David Carradine idea of fighting & kung fu.

Basically the importance or emphasis on CMA fighting began to change during the 90's. With help from the movies, kung fu forms became very popular and most students only wanted to learn forms and not get hit in the eye. Look at most kung fu tournaments, the majority of competitors these days are forms competitors. Many schools are filled with children, whose parents don't want them getting bruises from training and then came the "Yuppies". Commercial kung fu schools had to be more politically correct in the 90's and were very cautious about promoting the old ideas. Had to pay the rent.

During the transition between the late 60' to now alot was lost even in the U.S.
The issues of the old days have changed with the times and so have the priorities.
Now, some of the old school TCMA are still out there in the U.S. today so it's not fair to generalize or categorize all CMA today into one group. In the old days you didn't even bring out your lion dance unless you could fight. When you see the traditional lions come out, you should automatically assume that they are strong and can fight, but that isn't the case these days. When we out for lion dancing in the old days some of us had to carry guns or knives due to the potential threat of rivals. You didn't go out unless you were prepared to fight.

During the transitions from the 60's to now, some of the instructors today using the name "kung fu" don"t actually know how to use their style in real fighting or application.

Questions such as your are actually constructive because it will hopefully force the TCMA to reclaim what they were originally known for and that's fighting & honor.

The idea of a challeng to me has nothing to do with size or any weight class or rules. i should expect anything knives, guns, sticks, or whatever. this was my era.

so you're saying this change in kung fu happened over the past 40 years?

[PangQuan]

thats what im talking about.

i said

"it just means those particular fighters were not up to par, sucked over all, or just have not been training correctly for a long enough period."

by the right guys, i mean over all package. if your not training right, your not the right guy.

i ended with.

"just wait, eventually some cma guys will decide to switch up thier methods and get serious about nhb competition, we know there are a couple who are working on it now..."

the implication being, that they will alter training habits and methods to be correctly in line with the endeavor with which they wish to embark.

Seven*, I know you of all people agree upon the idea of correct habitual action in regards to training methods.

this is exactly the point i am making.

as of yet there are very few, if any, cma gyms tailored around training to meet the needs put down by the MMA communities NHB competitions.

i am and have been a strong believer in time, give it time.

i have not been training very long, but one of my goals in my MA career is to take what i learn with CMA and train at least one good fighter. im just not ready yet. I also understand that i will need to crosstrain to complete this goal. but i want a good solid foundation in CMA first, which i am steadily working towards.

so what i should have said was:

the right individual, with the correct background of training to meet his goals in the MMA, NHB venue has not as of yet stepped up, partly IMO, due to the fact that few have, as of yet, begun the process correctly.

it will happen, just give it time. there are those in this world who wish it to happen and have the drive, but as for the CMA community, this is still a rather new goal for us.

It may boil down to the generation, perhaps my generation and those near it will be the ones to bring back our CMA fighting spirit.

As that is my wish.

[hungganyc]

Oh yeah one last point:)

Friends of mine from Europe visiting the states wanted to see "full contact/San Shou" match. i took them to a particular event. My friends are, two CMA & the 3rd BJJ/Wing Chun. Having seen the level of full contact matches in their part of Europe i was alittle concerned that they would be disappointed at this particular event

As usual before the match, the fighters walked around in their nice warm up suits, warming up (shadow boxing) while demonstrating all of these nice full contact techniques and of course wearing their best hardcore faces. Well, during the event only 10% of the fighters actually demonstrated real skills while the others either brawled or fought like little girls. Yeah i gave them all credit for having the heart to get in the ring. The 90% who fought like they were in a bar and had no martial arts skills are some of the same guys who walk around like they are superior to other CMA who don't step into the ring. I finally got to see one particular guy fight who frequents these forums talking trash about his full contact training and skills, while being very disrespectful to others on the forums. Lets just refer to him a "Fighter 0". "Fighter 0" was one of those guys i mentioned who fought like alittle girl that day. Heart and skill are two different things

The point i am trying to make is that when answering the question "Why CMA Doesn't Win in UFC" it isn't wise or fair to use any full contact event as the complete standard or judgement against any style wether it be CMA, and while answering the question, we don't unfairly critize, misjudge, or generalize any martial art style.

[SevenStar]

no doubt, not everyone who steps in the ring displays great skill. But I give them more respect than the skilled guy, regardless of style who talks but will not put up.

[hungganyc]

Pang Quan:

Awesome! There's alot of CMA in your generation who feel the same way as you do. This generation of CMA should use all of the negative chatter about CMA fighting these days as motivation and fuel. Actually we should thank these critics for forcing CMA to get back on track. We should also thank them for showing us in their videos and television events how to be beat them:)

Once there is no more argument about fighting, then we'll be left with what we have to offer other than the fighting, subsequently we'll be right back to the reason that most of us were drawn to the discipline and culture of Martial Arts.


SevenStar: This is just my personal observation. It's reasonable to say that everything in life has changed over the last 40 yrs brother.

me: As a young student, i use to be prejudice against other styles of martial arts. As i've gotten older and more experienced, i developed an appreciation and respect for all forms of Martial arts. i've notice that alot of the ranting and negative statments on these forums usually come from the young martial artists.

[hungganyc]

no doubt, not everyone who steps in the ring displays great skill. But I give them more respect than the skilled guy, regardless of style who talks but will not put up.

SevenStar: so do you recommend that a unskilled martial artist get into the ring, jeopardize his safety and health in order to have your respect? Are you also saying that all of the skilled Martial Artist out there who chose Martial Arts for different reasons don't deserve respect? LOL. c'mon 7 you can't be serious brother.

As i mentioned before, i have alot of respect for those guys who get in the ring, but that doesn't mean that martial artist who don't get into the ring should not be respected equally. Are you using "getting into the ring" as your primary standard for respect in martial arts?:)

I have a student who doesn't like to spar, but when an incident occured and i needed back up in a real situation, this same student stood up and went to work on one of the guys behind me. My student not only demonstrated heart and loyalty for me his sifu, but also alot of skill during the fight. I had never seen him really fight before. He even shocked me :) He fought well using techniques from our system and drills. Impressed everyone who saw the fight. So should i respect this student less than the ones who choose to fight in the ring?;)

[PangQuan]

they say respect isnt given it earned.

i find this to be the narrow minded mans moto.

i respect everyone on a level ground, its the actions of others that will increase or decrease my respect of them.

sure i will gain respect for a fighter who steps into the ring, were he to do so with the wrong attitude, or be a poor sport, he will lose twice as much respect after the thought.

if someone trains martial arts and they say, "hey i dont train for sport, i train for personal reasons, but im just not interested in sport fighting"

i gain respect for them. were they to train for the wrong reasons, they lose twice as much respect.

its all case by case.

[SevenStar]

SevenStar: so do you recommend that a unskilled martial artist get into the ring, jeopardize his safety and health in order to have your respect? Are you also saying that all of the skilled Martial Artist out there who chose Martial Arts for different reasons don't deserve respect? LOL. c'mon 7 you can't be serious brother.

I don't think it matters why you train. As stated before, IMO all ma should get into a ring at least once. It doesn't matter which venue - something full contact.

As i mentioned before, i have alot of respect for those guys who get in the ring, but that doesn't mean that martial artist who don't get into the ring should not be respected equally. Are you using "getting into the ring" as your primary standard for respect in martial arts?:)

no, I'm not. but guys who talk about what does and doesn't work in and out of the ring but have never fought in one or both are full of it, as they can't speak on what they don't know.

[PangQuan]

I think there should be a full contact staff fighting venue myself.

[SevenStar]

they say respect isnt given it earned.

i find this to be the narrow minded mans moto.

narrow minded or not, it applies. In general, everyone gets my respect as being a person. I really don't care whether or not they train ma - I feel no special kinship toward other ma. I like some, I dislike some. But if someone walks up to me and says "I'm a fighter" - I can't respect that.


sure i will gain respect for a fighter who steps into the ring, were he to do so with the wrong attitude, or be a poor sport, he will lose twice as much respect after the thought.

agreed.

if someone trains martial arts and they say, "hey i dont train for sport, i train for personal reasons, but im just not interested in sport fighting"

i gain respect for them. were they to train for the wrong reasons, they lose twice as much respect.

its all case by case.

I agree. but at the same time, I wouldn't respect them as fighters, as with the earlier example. ST gave him props for his skill but said he wasn't a fighter (at least not at that time).

[PangQuan]

i see what your saying now.

respect in area's


such as, i respect all men simply for being (until they destroy it)

but i can only respect the fighter as a fighter and none other.

got it.

i would respect a full contact staff fight for sure though :D

[SifuAbel]

ST gave him props for his skill but said he wasn't a fighter (at least not at that time).


What the heck does that mean? He was once a fighter but now he is old so he doesn't count anymore? Thats not right. Would you want that for you?

[Green Cloud]

GUYS!!! I'm getting tired of this thread, we are from two differen't worlds. What we do doesn't make sense to you guys as what you do doesn't make sense to us.

The difference is we don't care about it one way or the other, nor do we need to change how we do things. THAT'S WHY WE ARE TRADITIONAL

The CMA has different ideals and operates under a different ethic. As I have said in the past this is a stupid thread an typical of what I see on this forum.

IT'S LIKE TRYING TO TELL A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN THAT JESUS DOESN'T EXIST

[jethro]

IT'S LIKE TRYING TO TELL A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN THAT JESUS DOESN'T EXIST

[/QUOTE]


if that doesn't stop it, nothing will:(

[MyDrills]

Seven,

I think most of the WC you're talking about are fakes. thats the type I hate the most. They are very good in principles and practice. But when it comes to actual fight they lose. They dont have actuality, they dont have experience in real fight. and then they drag down WC with them. shame on them.

have you seen a real kungfu fighter in MMA? those who can reap the flesh with eagle claw? those who brakes skull in a lightning fast blow? those who can penetrates fingers in flesh and pull out your collar bone or ribs? those who strike at presure point and opponents die after a while?

have you seen one?

now you see what I mean????

u wanna see one? u wanna see what i can do?

[unkokusai]

As usual before the match, the fighters walked around in their nice warm up suits, warming up (shadow boxing) while demonstrating all of these nice full contact techniques and of course wearing their best hardcore faces. Well, during the event only 10% of the fighters actually demonstrated real skills while the others either brawled or fought like little girls. .


....................:rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

have you seen a real kungfu fighter in MMA? those who can reap the flesh with eagle claw? those who brakes skull in a lightning fast blow? those who can penetrates fingers in flesh and pull out your collar bone or ribs? those who strike at presure point and opponents die after a while?

have you seen one?

now you see what I mean????

u wanna see one? u wanna see what i can do?



LOL

Oh man, the comic-book shop must have had a sale today! :rolleyes:

[MyDrills]

stink,

what kind of fake martial arts do you practice?

[Green Cloud]

LOL

Oh man, the comic-book shop must have had a sale today! :rolleyes:


Hey bro speaking about comic books and stuff, did you hear they put yo mamas photo on food stamps??? :)

[unkokusai]

stink,

what kind of fake martial arts do you practice?


Oh, a little of this and that, but mostly I'm just a humble wrestler. :o

I have to assume you are a master of The Fist of The Northstar!

[unkokusai]

Hey bro speaking about comic books and stuff, did you hear they put yo mamas photo on food stamps??? :)


The hip-hop lingo is a good idea for you. You might be able to use it to mask some of your problems with the use of proper English.

[Green Cloud]

Naa I'm just posting on your level

[unkokusai]

Naa I'm just posting on your level


That's a nice goal, because certainly nobody is on your level!

[MyDrills]

Naa I'm just posting on your level

you mean stink is in that level? :D mwehehehe

[Green Cloud]

No realy bro, did you here about your moma?? the building society repossed her cardboard box.

[MyDrills]

Oh, a little of this and that, but mostly I'm just a humble wrestler. :o

I have to assume you are a master of The Fist of The Northstar!


actually, i just watch a lot of cma movies. heheh

enough to beat a humble wrestler like you stink

[Green Cloud]

The hip-hop lingo is a good idea for you. You might be able to use it to mask some of your problems with the use of proper English.

Hip hop lingo??? What's that supposed mean??? I get it youre lily white.

Sorry but this is me I make no oppologies.

[unkokusai]

No realy bro, did you here about your moma?? the building society repossed her cardboard box.



Skipped class today, did you? :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

actually, i just watch a lot of cma movies. heheh

enough to beat a humble wrestler like you stink



I don't doubt it. Some of those movies are hard-core! :eek:

[Green Cloud]

I'm sorry I am so ashamed of my spelling no not realy. Youre wright I'm not a smart nerd like you are.

I'm too busy actualy doing MA, not to mention making a great living running 3 MA schools and loving life.

How about you ???:confused:

[unkokusai]

Sorry but this is me I make no oppologies.


Giving up doesn't make it ok.

[friday]

ok

its time to settle this once and for all!

the answer to this thread is basically because

I have not entered into the UFC.

seriously...:D

have a good weekend everyone.

[unkokusai]

I'm sorry I am so ashamed of my spelling no not realy. Youre wright :confused:


The fact that you are unwilling to even try to improve on something so relatively easy to address tells me that you don't really care about yourself, or anything else for that matter. :(


I guess studying kung-fu hasn't had much of a positive impact on you.

[Green Cloud]

No but I'm learning from you tanks teacher stink. But that's ok if I were book smart I probably wouldn't be in this buiss. I am lucky that I have people that work for me that can spell. You know that's why they work for me;)

[unkokusai]

No but I'm learning from you tanks teacher stink. But that's ok if I were book smart I probably wouldn't be in this buiss. I am lucky that I have people that work for me that can spell. You know that's why they work for me;)


I really do feel bad for you. I hope something has a more positive effect on you someday. :(

[Green Cloud]

This is a forum not a school newspaper, when a dispute happens it's about geting your point across not about spelling. It's like short hand who realy cares as long as ya understand me Felix.

[Green Cloud]

You see Unok, all you write is one liners and you actualy use a dictionary. That's realy pathetic dude.

[Green Cloud]

But seriously Unkok, ya realy got to send moms some money. Each night she goes to KFC to lick other folks fingers.:cool:

[Green Cloud]

She can't even go to the free clinic. :(

[unkokusai]

This is a forum not a school newspaper, when a dispute happens it's about geting your point across not about spelling. It's like short hand who realy cares as long as ya understand me Felix.


You are trying to convince yourself. That's just sad.

[Green Cloud]

Unkokusai you have realized at this point that youre the only guy I speak to this way. That's because I have absolutely no respect for you at all. You are just a retarted corny one liner troll.

[unkokusai]

Unkokusai you have realized at this point that youre the only guy I speak to this way. That's because I have absolutely no respect for you at all. You are just a retarted corny one liner troll.


The real issue is that you have no respect for yourself. :(

[Green Cloud]

Have you noticed that I am just simply amusing my self, may be the jokes I tell are for every ones amusement. I don't realy take you seriously all ya got on me is bad spelling. As far as being a good conversationalist you suck.

Have a good night.

[unkokusai]

Have you noticed that I am just simply amusing my self, may be the jokes I tell are for every ones amusement. I don't realy take you seriously all ya got on me is bad spelling. As far as being a good conversationalist you suck.

Have a good night.





I don't blame you for wanting to avoid the issue, but it is really not healthy for you.

[hungganyc]

Green Cloud

Your an accomplished Sifu and you have an excellent rep. for your Gung Fu, so don't waste your time and energy bro. Although you've been crack'n me up with those "momma" jokes. Just ignore him;)

[Green Cloud]

yea youre right, I was just having fun.

[Green Cloud]

I'm sure everyone agrees that this is a pointhess thread.

[brothernumber9]

I'm curious. Is attempting to tear or pinch the skin off of someone illegal in NHB events? Also, expanding on that, is grabbing a tendon like on the inside of the elbow or knee illegal?

[PangQuan]

yes #9 that is not legal.

its also used by many cma as an excuse why they dont compete. total BS but oh well.

I still stand by my idea of having Full Contact NHB staff fighting.

modified staffs so they dont break bones as easy, but enough to KO a mofo.

[SevenStar]

What the heck does that mean? He was once a fighter but now he is old so he doesn't count anymore? Thats not right. Would you want that for you?


someone on this thread said he's coaching right now, didn't they? If he was too old back then, why wouldn't he be too old now? As for the parenthesis in my comment, It's in reference to the fact that since he wasn't fighting or training fighters, it's possible that he didn't know the man was once a fighter.

[Knifefighter]

I still stand by my idea of having Full Contact NHB staff fighting..

We/ve been doing these at the Dog Brothers events for years.

[Knifefighter]

I'm curious. Is attempting to tear or pinch the skin off of someone illegal in NHB events? Also, expanding on that, is grabbing a tendon like on the inside of the elbow or knee illegal?

No, you can't pinch or "tear the skin off" (good luck doing that anytime).

Yes, you could grab the tendons on the elbows or knees, but it wouldn't do anything other that tie your hands up while your opponent smashes you.or gains better positioning on you.

[SevenStar]

Seven,

I think most of the WC you're talking about are fakes. thats the type I hate the most. They are very good in principles and practice. But when it comes to actual fight they lose. They dont have actuality, they dont have experience in real fight. and then they drag down WC with them. shame on them.

have you seen a real kungfu fighter in MMA? those who can reap the flesh with eagle claw? those who brakes skull in a lightning fast blow? those who can penetrates fingers in flesh and pull out your collar bone or ribs? those who strike at presure point and opponents die after a while?

have you seen one?

now you see what I mean????

u wanna see one? u wanna see what i can do?

those tricks are fine and good, but there is much more to fighting than that. I hope that's not what defines a real kung fu guy these days. As stated before, I have seen things like, dr yang jwing ming touch my friend's arm and make it go numb, but it was a demo. In all honesty, I don't think he coulda pulled it off real time.

[Knifefighter]

I suppose by your statement that you’ve seen “muay thai, bjj, boxing, wrestling“ fight for real and I suppose by your statement that they all fought in the street the same way they fought in the ring

No, but they the way they fight in their respective disciplines is not that much different than the way they fight in MMA and not that much different than the way they fight in the street.


Just because some alleged CMArtist didn’t do well in the UFC doesn’t mean that CMA is not an affective fighting system.

That’s true. But it is one additional proverbial “nail in the coffin” piece of supporting evidence.


so do you recommend that a unskilled martial artist get into the ring, jeopardize his safety and health…

…and this line of thinking is another nail.

Getting into competition against other resisting opponents is one of the best ways to help you develop your skills in a quick and effective manner and the risks to "safety and health" are relatively minor. Boxer’s, BJJer’s, Judoka’s, Samboists, Muay Thai fighters, and wrestlers begin competing in a relatively short time after beginning to train. This is part of what makes these systems so effective. You don’t have to be a deadly fighting machine before you begin to compete and to test yourself against others.


those who can penetrates fingers in flesh and pull out your collar bone or ribs?
have you seen one?

No, becuase they probably don't exist.
How many clavicles or ribs have you seen pulled out (not counting the myriad of kung fu movies you have watched)?
Hammer, hammer…

those who strike at presure point and opponents die after a while?

Yeah, I've seen this one and you are right. It is quite deadly.
Guy gets hit in a pressure point and dies 65 years later when he is 93.
Hammer, hammer…


now you see what I mean????
u wanna see one? u wanna see what i can do?

Yes please… show me how you can rip through my skin and pull my clavicle out.

Hammer, hammer…

[PangQuan]

We/ve been doing these at the Dog Brothers events for years.

nice, whats the rate of serious injury? why type of staffs do you all use?

[Knifefighter]

nice, whats the rate of serious injury? why type of staffs do you all use?


We use rattan, mostly.
Not too many serious injuries... some stitches, and the occasional KO and/or concussion.

[PangQuan]

sweet, thats what i train with.

we do some staff sparring in school, nothing hardcore tho.

i used to get together with a few guys on a reg basis and spar with wooden weapons.

dao
bokken
naginata
tonfa
staff
jian
nunchaku
and some sai (metal, dont know if they make wooden ones)

dunno why no one thinks weapon training is useful. weapons are everywhere you go...how can you defend against one if you cant even wield it...

[SifuAbel]

someone on this thread said he's coaching right now, didn't they? If he was too old back then, why wouldn't he be too old now? As for the parenthesis in my comment, It's in reference to the fact that since he wasn't fighting or training fighters, it's possible that he didn't know the man was once a fighter.


So?!?!?! ST not knowing he was a fighter doesn't equate to him NOT being a fighter. The same can and WILL be said of all of us if this is true. There will be a day, and soon, where we will not be fighting. Thats just spin and you know it. In his day he was a fighter. Just because he isn't doing it now doesn't mean he couldn't today at some level. The arrogant "he is no fighter" line is just pure disrespect. It shows a massive ego on St's part.

[hungganyc]

Knifefighter: Knifefighter]No, but they the way they fight in their respective disciplines is not that much different than the way they fight in MMA and not that much different than the way they fight in the street.


Hung: As you pointed out "not that much" , bottom line there is a difference;)



That’s true. But it is one additional proverbial “nail in the coffin” piece of supporting evidence.


So if a real good CMA fighter goes in the UFC and beats down all the MMA, does this one fighter change anything and does this now mean that CMA is better than MMA? Of course not. Fighting is fighting, so you can call it what you want. It doesn't matter whether it's MMA, CMA, or PTA, its the individual. There's no "nail in the coffin" bro, TCMA's history speaks for itself, so a few years of a trendy new sport or title won't change that. I have alot of respect for the MMA fighters & i work out with some.

I'm not stupid, i do agree that the alleged "CMA" who fought in the UFC need to improve their sport skills. CMA guys must learn how to adapt their skills for the ring that's all.

Are people so naive to automatically assume that the CMA guys who competed in the UFC represent all CMA as well as the best of CMA? Think about this; 60% of the schools in the U.S. claiming to be Traditional CMA are fake and this has alot to do with the problem. That's right i said it again! (don't get me started on this point)

If you get together with an experience Southern Style TCMA and exchange skills, you'll be surprised to find out that some Southern CMA are actually a "Mixed Martial Arts" and way before you ever heard the catch all title. No doubt the title MMA is selling alot of tickets. i bought one:)


…and this line of thinking is another nail.


Getting into competition against other resisting opponents is one of the best ways to help you develop your skills in a quick and effective manner and the risks to "safety and health" are relatively minor. Boxer’s, BJJer’s, Judoka’s, Samboists, Muay Thai fighters, and wrestlers begin competing in a relatively short time after beginning to train. This is part of what makes these systems so effective. You don’t have to be a deadly fighting machine before you begin to compete and to test yourself against others.


[B]i'm referring to an "unskilled" fighter vs. a very skilled fighter. we've all seen fights where we said "that guy had no business in the ring against that fighter"

thanks for your response Knifefighter:)

[SevenStar]

The arrogant "he is no fighter" line is just pure disrespect. It shows a massive ego on St's part.


We'll have to disagree there. I don't see the massive disrespect, as he gave props to his skill. he is disrespecting him for not also giving him recognition in all areas?

[MyDrills]

Hung,

I think more than 60% are fake. and mma guys judge cma as lame because of them.