Hidden Techniques !

[waylander]

I am interested in peoples views on the subject of hidden techniques in empty hand sets in the Northern Praying Mantis system .
Is there such a thing as a hidden technique ?
If yes then what is it ?
Are they found in all sets ?
I have always found it very strange that forms contain hidden techniques . If you are taught a form correctly and fully then you should be taught how every technique works in the context of the form .
I understand that empty hand forms are made up of individual trainable techniques that are made into combinations of techniques to allow for individual practice .
I welcome your thoughts on this .:)

[mantis108]

Chances are today's hidden techniques are "personal expressions" of a teacher.

Personally, I have people that told me CCK TCPM forms are kind of astract to pull applications from them. But as they saw the Sau Fa (our application drills), then they understand how the applications are drawn. In fact, they all saw our Sau Fa in our wooden dummy form.

I believe hidden techniques would not have existed if application drills are practiced along side the forms. I also believe that hidden techniques are sometime "discovered" as the experiences of the teacher or student grow. After all Kung Fu is like language, it's alive when it is in use and applicable in different situations. If no new usage is found, the language would become stagnet and dies out.

Finally, sometime hidden techniques means please invest more money. ;)

Mantis108

[Donkwoon]

It's only hidden untill you discover it.

[spiralstair]

As your forms get 'lived in' it often happens that things you haven't seen before get uncovered. When you learn the form you learn to apply the 1st application, and maybe how to counter, and how to counter the counter. Then you have to live it.

If you work the applications with a resisting partner (resisting includes retreating as a reaction to an attack), you'll find that there are many more applications to a certain technique than you were initially taught.
Punch turns into shoulder stroke, block turns into throw, stance change into trip, are typical ones. Were these hidden techniques? Only to a lazy mind. It's always easier to say one wasn't taught fully, or correctly. Harder to admit that one didn't really feel like putting in the time. When it comes to fighting, luck is a self-created state.

[K.Brazier]

I agree with Robert's first sentence.
Though methodology isn't always taught with the form.
Kevin

[EarthDragon]

Is there such a thing as a hidden technique ?

Depends on what you call hidden. Thjere are many teachniques that are linked together by moves that are not or do not have a fighting application and are hard to understand to the spectator.......... these could be considered hidden

If yes then what is it ? depends on the content you are speaking of at Robert and kevin said could be the personal flavor of the teacher.

I have always found it very strange that forms contain hidden techniques . If you are taught a form correctly and fully then you should be taught how every technique works in the context of the form .

again our mantis links seperate fighting applications together with movements that's sole purpose is to link the applications together. the real application can not be seen truley to the non- mantis folk.

I understand that empty hand forms are made up of individual trainable techniques that are made into combinations of techniques to allow for individual practice . this is my point.

there are differnt forms however we have show forms and fighting forms. one doesn not always want to show the applications and often blends them with non descriptive movements.

[mantid1]

I have always looked for the hidden techniques but could never find them.

[mantis053]

Hi everybody. I don't think there is any hidden techs. Every thing is right there for you to see. Just practice your forms and analize the techs. from all angles. Kung Fu is a thinking mans art. There is alot of philosophy involved in the art of kung fu. I love to just sitting there and figuring things out. There are so many combinations of techs. that it would take a life time to figure out. Each generatoin adds to the system and makes it better. I just take what they give me and run with it. Kung Fu challanges you physicaly but it also challanges you mentaly and thats why I think I am so drawn to it. Kung Fu is a way of life and takes alot of dedication. One more thing a master of system spends his whole life analizing what's been passed down to him. Is it to much to ask that we do the same and follow in his foot steps. There no doubt about it Kung Fu is hard work and I'm loving it. Everybody have a good night. SIGNING OFF NOBBY

[waylander]

Thanks for the input guys. I have always wondered if Mantis108 has got it right with his last sentence , always seems like a good money maker . If you drill the form fully and practice every technique and apply in several different senarios then you will find out what works best and how the technique can develope .
I do not believe in hidden techniques , only hidden motives .

[Sifu Darkfist]

Almost all of the techniques that i have been taught have multiple applications.
If you are only taught one version then i guess the others are hidden to you.

However, if you understand the versatile nature of CMA and PM in particular you understand that "accomplished" masters who compose forms (or sets) generally do so to fit a variety of martial artist's physical characteristics.

A perfect example is the brushing brow option as opposed to a grab in the basic praying mantis eye strike. My hands are small and i am small as well, so in many cases i might face people far larger than I am and i might not enjoy a round of early stage Chin na with a huge opponent.

Therefore, i might would prefer to dismantle the eyes with two strikes before i engage in close range elbow fighting or limb snapping in mantis grappling.

Or i might choose to use elbows until the very last minute and then throw or dispatch.

[Crushing Fist]

I can't say for NPM specifically but...

the way I understand "hidden" techs is that they are the ones that don't look "exactly" like the form. The precise motion of the form has obvious applications, but often there are other apps taught for a move that don't really look just like the motion from the form, but use it as a base or starting point. From this aspect they are "hidden" in that someone watching the form would not see these apps in it, but not hidden in the sense that they aren't taught.

just the way i understand it anyway :)