The Shaolin Workout by Shi Yan Ming

[GeneChing]

I just received an uncorrected proof of Yanming's new book, The Shaolin Workout. It's being published by Rodale (http://www.rodale.com/), a major publisher in the world of health publications. They do the magazines Prevention, Men's Health, Runner's World, Women's Health, Organic Gardening, Backpacker, Best Life, Bicycling and Mountain Bike. Will Yanming be on one of those covers next? Rodale also published several New York Times Bestsellers like Martha Stewart's The Martha Rules, Bill Maher's New Rules: Polite Musings from a Timid Observer, as well as The South Beach Diet and The Abs Diet franchises. Most martial arts books are published through small publishers or vanity published. Rodale is a whole new level for a Shaolin book.

The Shaolin Workout is well marketed - just what you might expect from Rodale. It's subtitled "28 Days to Transforming Your Body and Soul the Warrior Way". I haven't had a chance to do more than skim it, but it looks like a general outline of Shaolin basics - mostly stretching and warm ups, basic stances and kicks. The presentation is very clean and professional. It's slated for release on June 2006. It's be hardcover, 7 1/2" x 9 1/8", retailing at $29.95.

[Shaolinlueb]

interesting, ill probably check it out.

[David Jamieson]

I already do a shaolin workout.

that's probably gonna sell well though.

[Shaolindynasty]

You can say what you want about Yan Ming but he is doing allot to not only make kungfu mainstream but also make it cool:cool:

[GeneChing]

I've always thought that of all the monks that have immigrated to America, Yanming had the kind of charisma that could lend itself to exactly this kind of project. I spent a week with him back in '99 and his enthusiasm on the training floor is contagious, like Billy Blanks pushing TaeBo, or any workout guru. He inspired you to put out more, not to hold back, which was great for jibengong. The Shaolin jibengong by itself is a great workout. You just need to add music. Wonder if RZA (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=99) can handle workout music? ;)

[Shaolindynasty]

I remember a demo by Yan Ming for a show on TNT. He used the wutang's shame on a n**** beat. It seemed to get the audience pumped up.

I always thought about using RZA beats especially the ones with the shaw brothers samples when doing demos for non martial artist/non Chinese groups. I don't know what the effect the wong fei hung music would have on people who aren't "in the know".


I wonder if a workout series ala "taebo" would be considered after the book release. I also wonder how it would be recieved by martial artists. I know taebo wasn't particularly well recieved by most. Billy Blanks lost me when during the infomercial the soccer moms said they could "kick butt" and defend themselves because of taebo. Would Yan Ming run into the same critisism?

[GeneChing]

Could you get a better punchline set up than that? :rolleyes:

[rickyscaggs]

I thought Shi Yan Ming was extremely against learning from books and videos. What is this all about now? It's going to be funny to see all the McDojo's with a new crappy workout routine. Way to go Yan Ming!

[Banjos_dad]

The trend seems to be that the temple is discovering its economic power as a "brand," and finding ways to apply it. Can you blame them? That's the impression I formed anyway.
I will probably buy a copy as well, but like DJ i am doing a shaolin workout already anyway and will have time to wait until i can buy one here (http://www.martialartsmart.net/) in softcover.

[TaichiMantis]

Could you get a better punchline set up than that? :rolleyes:


Hey! I'm an original!

Jackie
(soccer player 30+yrs, mom 14+ years, Shaolin arts 2+ yrs):cool:

[GeneChing]

TaichiMantis, you could start a trend - a massive legions of Shaolin soccer moms. Just imagine. It would be glorious.

Banjos_dad, you shouldn't make the mistake of confusing what individual monks are doing with 'the temple'. Yanming is independant of the temple, as are most of the monks that have immigrated out of China. They all retain ties to the temple and various Shaolin masters in Dengfeng, but they are not 'official' representatives. Shaolin Temple is a huge organization, a tradition with 1500 years of history. Throughout that history, there have always been splinter factions. In short, I doubt that any of the profit from this book will go back to the temple, nor was the temple consulted on it at all. That's why the abbot is trying to trademark the Shaolin 'brand', but at this point, you might as well try to trademark 'zen'.

rickyscaggs, I wouldn't call Shaolin jibengong a crappy workout routine. Quite the opposite. And if all the McDojos started doing it, that would be fantastic. It'd be like all the McDonalds offering choice prime rib.

I've always thought a good Shaolin jibengong program was in order. Guolin's Fundementals of Shaolin (http://www.martialartsmart.net/pr-gs006.html) is the only one readily available and that doesn't cover a lot of it. Yanming's new book doesn't cover all of it either, but in all fairness, he's writing to a different audience and this is only the first in what could be a potential series. Jibengong is where it's at. That's the foundation. All the forms videos that everyone else put out are useless without basics.

[Shaolindynasty]

I would rather see people doing shaolin basics as a workout routine than taebo/cardio kickboxing.

If kungfu basics became a popular workout routine then it would be a good way to bring more intrest to TCMA. That means more places would be interested in having classes, more people training, more opportunity to get the word out about your style etc. Of course there also may be an influx of hot gym chicks in your school. Now would that be so bad?:D

[rickyscaggs]

rickyscaggs, I wouldn't call Shaolin jibengong a crappy workout routine. Quite the opposite. And if all the McDojos started doing it, that would be fantastic. It'd be like all the McDonalds offering choice prime rib.

I've always thought a good Shaolin jibengong program was in order. Guolin's Fundementals of Shaolin (http://www.martialartsmart.net/pr-gs006.html) is the only one readily available and that doesn't cover a lot of it. Yanming's new book doesn't cover all of it either, but in all fairness, he's writing to a different audience and this is only the first in what could be a potential series. Jibengong is where it's at. That's the foundation. All the forms videos that everyone else put out are useless without basics.

I wouldn't call it a crappy workout either. I'm talking about how the McDojo sensei's will learn it from a book and teach it like crap and depending on how much SYM talks on it they'll be missing a lot. What good does it do? Basics are also useless if learned from a book!

What audience is he writing to? I've always heard he was extremely against learning from books and videos. Now he's writing a book of his own to teach it? What a money loving hypocrite. He's no different than the rest of 'em. You know he loves money. Monk? My @$$. He's milking that thing for all it's worth!! :rolleyes:

[Chief Fox]

I wouldn't call it a crappy workout either. I'm talking about how the McDojo sensei's will learn it from a book and teach it like crap and depending on how much SYM talks on it they'll be missing a lot. What good does it do? Basics are also useless if learned from a book!

What audience is he writing to? I've always heard he was extremely against learning from books and videos. Now he's writing a book of his own to teach it? What a money loving hypocrite. He's no different than the rest of 'em. You know he loves money. Monk? My @$$. He's milking that thing for all it's worth!! :rolleyes:
Really? So you know all the in's and out's of his financial situation or are you just assuming? :rolleyes:

[Shaolindynasty]

rickyscaggs- I think it is hypocritical for us to question monks morals and motives with money. Not because they are above question but because we are beneath that kind of questioning. Everyone here is living a pretty materialistic life. I don't feel it's my buisness to question his personal life due to the fact that I don't belong to his order.


But your comments pose an interesting question- I also don't really think you can learn from a book. I personally feel direct instruction is the only way to go. Yet recently I've been working on some articles. Now the question is that if yan ming is against learning from written materials/videos etc. then why does he have several articles and a video published? Why, if I am not for learning from video/books am I working on articles?

I wonder if I am slightly hypocritical in my stance. Was YM already a hypocrite to make a stance against indirect learning, then publish articles? What is the cut off? Is an article ok but a book isn't? That wouldn't make sense. Is it the motive behind it? Most articles are soley for informational purposes. If a book is written in the same spirit is it then ok?

So then is it only "unethical" to publish material if you give the impression that you can learn from it without assistance?

Or is it the fact that YM is a "monk" that makes it worng for him to be successful?

[rickyscaggs]

Now the question is that if yan ming is against learning from written materials/videos etc. then why does he have several articles and a video published?

I also heard he was not pleased with the video and wishes they are all out of circulation and is highly against them.

Is it the motive behind it? Most articles are soley for informational purposes. If a book is written in the same spirit is it then ok?

His motive is what I question. He puts on a show acting like he's Bodhidharma trying to spread Chan to the western world, yet he hardly even lives like a lay Buddhist but milks the "monk" title for all it's worth.

So then is it only "unethical" to publish material if you give the impression that you can learn from it without assistance?

I think so, if first of all you are against it and think no one should learn from it, then you publish material giving the impression people can learn from it. What the heck is that? Money money money.

Or is it the fact that YM is a "monk" that makes it worng for him to be successful?

He's not a monk. As I said he hardly lives like a lay Buddhist. He does things for money not for spreading Chan and MA. That's a show. He's full of it. There are many things he could do to spread it with the money he already has, but he won't unless it gets him more money.

[Shaolindynasty]

I notice that you say "I heard" allot. Do you know SYM? Are you a former student? I'm just curious about your background because you seem to feel very strongly about this.

[GeneChing]

In my home, we have this hanging that says "Buddhism is passed from warm hand to warm hand." It's a familiar adage to practitioners. Regardless, there is a tremendous library of Buddhist books, a small portion of which I have in my own library. I learn from them all the time.

In the martial arts, people are always going on about how 'you can't learn from a book or video'. What they are really saying is that you can't become a master just by a book or a video. Of course you can learn from different sources other than a live teacher. It's totally absurd to say you can't. In fact, I don't think you can even claim that your a serious student of the martial arts if you don't read books and watch videos. They just can't be your only road to mastery; they're just stepping stones. It's a long road to mastery and you need to step on every stone - leave no stone unturned - to get there. What's more, not all of us have the ambition to be masters. I'm no master and the more I get into this, the more skeptical I become about ever being one. There's plenty of room in the martial arts for Shaolin soccer moms. If you're just dabbling, or doing it as a hobby, martial arts books and videos are an easy and low cost way to get some exercise. Even a little martial practice, even taebo, is beneficial if only for the cardiovascular. These days, in our toxic world, every little bit of samsara-burning workout helps.

As for the other issue of Shi Yanming and his validity as a monk, clearly he is the most controversial of the American immigrants. A carniverous father who hangs out with bling-toting rap stars certainly doesn't qualify as a fully indoctrinated Buddhist monk, but Shaolin has this special class of warrior monks, and Yanming has yet to be formally ejected from that order. In contrast, Shi Wanheng, a senior warrior monk, was formally ejected, but he was still at Shaolin part time. Yanming has only gone back twice I beleive, and both times he ran into some trouble, but I haven't heard that he's been officially black-balled yet. Every order has their black sheep and loose cannons. Personally, I find Yanming a fascinating character study and I wish his success with this new book effort.

[Banjos_dad]

I am sorry Gene. I had not made the distinction. In the statement you made about Yanming and Wanheng: "A carniverous father who hangs out with bling-toting rap stars certainly doesn't qualify as a fully indoctrinated Buddhist monk, but Shaolin has this special class of warrior monks, and Yanming has yet to be formally ejected from that order. In contrast, Shi Wanheng, a senior warrior monk, was formally ejected, but he was still at Shaolin part time. Yanming has only gone back twice I beleive, and both times he ran into some trouble, but I haven't heard that he's been officially black-balled yet...," their status seems cloudy, perhaps even to the temple walls themselves.
Here i am making statements from a center of ignorance again! I am hungry for material from Shaolin though, so i will most likely get the book regardless of Shi Yanming's official status

I just wanted to apologize, but i can't resist saying that books are a valid way of gaining insight, when they lead your mind to turn in ways it hadn't done before. Maybe the content shifts the focus of your attention onto things it had overlooked. There is no substitute for the hard exertion of kung fu training, for more than one reason, including the way that your body chemistry is altered and shiftfs your frame of perception. Learning to perform difficult movements well over time can deliver abstract lessons somehow... dharma. A big problem with books is that the illustrations can only capture a fraction of the form. Martial arts techniques most often involve specific body motions or a series of motions, which is the opposite of a book's static mode of transmission. DVD's and videos trade a book's capacity for hundreds of pages of insights and step-by-step explanation for the advantage of being able to see the movements in precise detail, but share the book's non-interactive limitation so at best one is just mimicking the actor. I do regular training with a sifu and a class because it seem obvious that that is the only way to develop beyond a very limited point. The recorded material is like "elective" training for fun, or because I want to explore the dynamics of a different style's forms.

Just the Shaolin conditioning and warm-up techniques are so beneficial over time, that i will be glad to see some jibengong techniques that aren't included in our school.
to me conditioning etc. like arm or leg striking, iron bridge training, ring training, is just added insurance. a lot of people wouls skip this part and go along to something 'sexier' like forms or something showy. this is something that could be easily overlooked by someone who tried only learning from videos & books...
it would also be easy to learn this from the dharma of doing fingertip pushups without even consciously realizing it. Or stance training. At first you're like:'....this sucks....this sucks.....please tell us to switch.......awww this really sucks......' Then later you look around one day and say, wow, i am one of the good ones now. Look at the hard time other people are having with this. They need to learn how to just go ahead and take that low stance before sifu tells you to, and just hold it until he says switch, even if you're legs are shaking like the proverbial dog eliminating a peach pit
that is something you can't learn so easily from a book.

anyway, sorry for making unqualified statements about Shaolin, and now for the epic post.

--wes

[GeneChing]

...and extra kudos for plugging our forum sponsor (http://www.martialartsmart.net/) ;) . Shaolin is seriously complicated, the most complicated manifestation of martial arts in the modern era. Frankly, that's why it interests me so. And I'd be the last person to cap on anyone for 'epic' posts. Maybe a troll post is worthy of some capping, but honest opinions fuel the discussion. After all, isn't discussion exact what the forum here is all about?

[richard sloan]

as usual, these kinds of threads contain a lot of verbage that amounts to so much hooey by a lot of faceless characters who wouldn't have a clue if they stumbled over a clue root in a clue forest full of clue trees- and yes I mean you ricky. what did you read a few diss threads in a forum and now you are a chan master, lol.

you remind me of some tool I met out at Apt. Shifu was wearing a nice watch, and he bought a round of drinks- it was someone's birthday. And some tool goes, wow nice watch, no wonder he is buying drinks. An easy conclusion to jump to, but Shifu didn't buy the watch, it was a gift...

on the former video- he doesn't like the way they came out, he didn't like the lack of control he had or the way the project was executed. he felt it was stale and typical. that is what you"heard" but you are misrepresenting it here and expanding it. if he was against video or book learning he wouldn't have done any articles at all- yet there are a few and they are very good ones too. i'm particularly fond of the black belt punching article.

in general, he doesn't approve of people burying themselves in books to learn or videos as single source instruction- especially because many of the authors don't know what they are talking about. one spark for this particular book was the DeMasco stuff that's being pushed out there right now- we just couldn't believe some of the wrong info that made it to press, I mean really silly stuff that anyone calling themselves a "disciple" should know. looking through the website and some of the pages of the book he just shook his head, looked away, and said "we should make a book. give people right information and accept the responsibility to share authentic history."

as to shi yan ming loving money- that really makes me laugh. few people know the internal workings of the usast but that suggestion is ludicrous to me considering I know much of the finances. he is far from rolling in it the way people think. most of the money the temple makes goes back into taking care of the disciples, the ny temple, and the needs of some of the other temples- you know we have 4 now, and have embarked on a capital campaign to raise funds for a full blown facility in NY just like he has always dreamed...which is one reason why we have the book project. We now have over 150,000 raised and are looking to engage an architect and are continually scouting land.

http://usashaolintemple.org/index.php?option=com_phpshop&Itemid=71

shi yan ming suffers/benefits from a portrayal that is not very accurate- he does not hide the fact that he eats meat, but that does not mean he is at Lugers at his personal table every night and a custom cut of meat. In point of fact he usually eats noodles and vegetables, continuously because he is constantly training. But he is not like a lot of others who do hide the fact they eat meat or dissemble about it. He's also usually slammed for drinking a beer every now and then, which he will consume openly but then again it's not like he is hitting every happy hour on w3rd st. The way some people make it sound we have a keg next to the sink or he has a flask stashed in his sash. I remember eating lunch in DC with him and De Yang and the waiter brought over a couple of Tsing Tao's- De Yang had just seen Bush's motorcade, and he was giddy like a kid, and guess what, when he drank the beer his robes did not burn up, his beads did not all split asunder, the altar at Shaolin did not crack apart to a massive earthquake and when he put his head down at night to sleep on his pillow he was still a shaolin monk, despite havinghad a beer and eating a crab- shell and all.

when it comes to ch'an sym is serious as a heart attack, but he is not representing a prc hegemony or orthodoxy- he didn't need to go to the beijing university, his dharma master was Shi Yong Chen who still lives in the temple, and the senior monks all spoke highly of him and his accomplishments- especially proud of him bringing his disciples home, in particular the recently passed Shi Su Xi who not only defied expectations to come sit with us, but even laboriously spoke for about a half hour before he grew too tired. Still he made sure to spend the better part of our time there with us. So since they still consider him a part of the order, I think it is hilarious when someone like ricky spews.

about the family, I have literally zero problem with that, and there really isn't a lot many other people can say, and not just because celibacy is a lark and against a nature ch'an should embellish. when the 14 returned with their families, and kept them, and were considered monks, the monkeys were let out of that barrel, weren't they, and if your masters sons became monks, and ch'an buddhism didn't turn into a pumpkin or come crashing down, well why shouldn't you raise up some kids and enjoy the sharing of love. That's part of life.

far from expelled, he is well loved by Su Xi's "side" if you will, and even many on Yong Xin's- there's a lot more that could be said about that trust me.

consider this record corrected.

[shaolinboxer]

I'm sure all of his "disciples" will treat this book like the bible.

Well, I'll pick one up just to remember my basic wushu. Too bad I have to pay for it...maybe I'll wait until they start falling into used book stores.

[GeneChing]

You know, personally I've always liked Yanming. He's extremely charismatic, very skilled and a great motivator, which is all you really need from an instructor. And I think his crossover work (for lack of a better term) is extraordinary, which is why I brought up his book here in the first place. But, with all due respect, the family issue is bothersome. Celibacy is not a 'lark' in Chan Buddhism. It's part of the teachings and if you explore those, you can understand the motivations behind them. Surely, there have been those who have broken celibacy vows and there always will be. However, they all fly in the face of doctrine, and that's philosophically very difficult to negotiate. If you discard the doctrines of Chan, you essentially throw the baby out with the bath water, sort of like Victoria's Zen At War (http://jbe.gold.ac.uk/5/rambell.htm). The heart of the celibacy issue, like any issue in Chan, is attachment. You can counter with something like "well, obviously you're attached to the doctrines" but that opens up a whole mess of philosophical baggage.

Anyway, in regards to shaolinboxer's comment, Yanming's new book could never be the Shaolin bible. It's too short. It looks like a fine introduction to Shaolin - very Yanming style with all the "beautiful!" "awesome!" "amitoufo!" and "train harder!" comments that you'd expect from him. I'm curious how that will translate to written word. Knowing Yanming, I can hear him saying that when I read his book, but I'm not sure that others will. We shall see.

[shaolinboxer]

It doesn't matter what the content of his book is. The cult of personality that revolves around him will ensure at least a modest success.

And all of his ex-students will get to roll their eyes every time they visit barnes & noble.

[richard sloan]

gene- many things find their way into doctrine.

few monastics can follow all their precepts and I think Buddha himself was rather reluctant to adopt globally what was for personal consideration- I've known several and not a single one of them from De Yang, to Yan Ming, to Guolin to the Dalai Lama or Thich Nat Hahn follow them all. Some are just silly and obviously made to illustrate that exact point. Are we really not to eat onions and garlic because of hovering hungry ghosts? Does eating an onion instantly remove your enlightenment club card?

my views on celibacy come first from the Catholic side, where it is indeed a lark- nowadays it is couched in rather grandiose terms, married to christ etc, when the reality is that church (communal) property was passing to sons who were not following their fathers footsteps by becoming ordained priests. Even today several Rites allow for married priests within Catholicism but how few Catholics and how few Catholic priests know this.

Sameway I am happy that when the monks began to return to the Shaolin temple they brought back their families with them- so then if your master is married, a monk, and obviously a functioning one, how do you put the cork back in the bottle, when the refutation is alive and well right before you. Yan ming catches flack because unlike others who hide he is open. At the end of the day he is working for the betterment of others, is achieving monumental results- you should have seen our recent trip to Trinidad- and that is more important than if he is carefully avoiding onions and hovering ghosts.

doctrines are important but not the ends and in some cases not even necessary as the means. I guess I like the illiterate woodchoppers of Ch'an.

I had a much longer post but it went kablooie into cyberspace, I guess my Jamaica connection doesn't like long times between reply and post button pushing.

[GeneChing]

If it was all about onions and garlic, that would totally bum me out. I've never heard the hungry ghosts thing. My understanding of that prohibition is that it seeks to cut the attachment to foods that are too stimulating. I'm not going to completely disregard that at this point, because my own personal alchemical changes in diet have produced some surprising results, so who knows? Maybe I'll have to give them up someday to reach nirvana. Not today, tho. ;) Clearly, there are effects of what you put into your body. Again, it's all about severing attachment.

It's difficult to follow all the precepts. You must remember that Buddhism was not originally developed for lay people like us. It was developed as a science to harness the mind, strictly for ascetics. So denial of attachments is key. We call them attachments for a reason. Many of them are hard to give up. We all fall from the path sometimes. It's a difficult path. But saying 'others fall from the path' is a weak argument. The pursuit of Chan does not lie in comparison of your personal practice to others. You can certainly make valid claims that others fail at keeping vows and hide those failures, but that skirts the real issue.

Yanming's case raises some interesting questions. His break from the tenets can be intellectualized as revolutionary or ****ed as heresy. It's denial of denials, which could actually work in a recursive philosophical way, although like with any recursive logic, it can get real sticky. Personally, I could beleive everything he says - that he's risen above the attachments of liquor, meat, and sex - if he could also rise above the attachment of being a monk. Do you think he's attached to his monk title? I have the utmost respect for those that have walked away from it. Ironically, that can show more resolve, sort of like in Hesse's Sidhartha.

Like I said earlier, I've always liked Yanming. We had a great relationship in the past, and despite a past professional split, I support him as much as I can support any of the monks. I'm not trying to bash him here at all. There are plenty of others here who would be happy to do that. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to promote his book because I think being published by Rodale is very exciting. At the same time, any mention of Yanming on a Shaolin forum is bound to elicit such a discussion and I'm eager to see how this plays out, especially now with the book imminent.

[wall]

I have never met YanMing ...

... however I have met many times his disciples Heng Xin (Austrian guy who spent 10 years with YanMing at the Manhattan Temple) and Heng Yi (Chinese guy who grew up at the WuShu Guan) ... both of whom now run the Austrian Temple affiliated with NYC.

They are great guys, animated by truly positive spirit and passion for Shaolin Wu and Chan, teaching a solid mix of traditional and modern Shaolin martial arts with a good base of philosophy too. They don't have the ego-drive or Shifu-worship that many Shaolin disciples unfortunately display, but just a healthy respect for their Master and a healthy bond with their students.

So, if the mark of a Master is the teachers he "produces", well then YanMing in my opinion must be a great Master with great spirit.

On the technical side the only things I'd "add" to what these two disciples do, and I don't know if that's something lacking also in NYC, are applications and some combat training: they don't do any practical application of techniques, even for more advanced students.

Wall

[rickyscaggs]

(Firstly, I may respect Yanming's philosophy as he is a lay Buddhist, but not as a monk.)

All you do is make excuses? Do you know the point of monkhood? Not "Shaolin monkhood" but Buddhist monkhood? What monastic code says you can have children while a monk or even have more than one family? If you want to live like this you're called a layperson. That is if you at least try to follow the 5 precepts for the laity. Yanming doesn't live as a monk under any monastic code but is sure attached to the 'Shaolin monk' title. Why all the excuses and as Gene pointed out, comparing and pointing at others? The Buddha did things with reason. There is no making babies in any "beautiful" monastic code and Shaolin is the only one that allows alcohol and meat eating. Probably because of modern times do they continue to allow it but it defeats the purpose of monkhood. An emporer has more say than the Buddha who set forth the vinaya? Shaolin monasticism has become a joke and is quickly passing away with the old masters. Buddhism is becoming poluted and will eventually die out. There should still be another 2500 years until it's completely gone as predicted by the Buddha, but it's going downhill from here and Shaolin is far ahead of the rest. It's also interesting to consider the fact the Buddha also predicted the end of Buddhism will be due to Buddhist themselves and no one else. Could it even start with less and lack of a true monastic sangha to teach us? Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. The sangha dies out, the Dharma is lost and the Buddha is forgotten.

[Brad]

I think the others have a good point about being attached to titles. He has sex, gets married/divorced, makes money for himself, eats meat, and gets hammered like everyone else. As far as I can tell, his martial arts isn't much different than many other modern wushu athletes either. What makes Yan Ming a monk?

[richard sloan]

If it was all about onions and garlic, that would totally bum me out. I've never heard the hungry ghosts thing. My understanding of that prohibition is that it seeks to cut the attachment to foods that are too stimulating. I'm not going to completely disregard that at this point, because my own personal alchemical changes in diet have produced some surprising results, so who knows? Maybe I'll have to give them up someday to reach nirvana. Not today, tho. ;) Clearly, there are effects of what you put into your body. Again, it's all about severing attachment.


I'll tell you a brief anecdotal story. I grew up in the hardcore scene. No booze, smoke, boom boom- eventually one day at a big family dinner- I am half sicilian- my nonna poured me a glass of wine. I must have explained to her what hardcore was about a zillion times, but you know nonnas. Then it hit me. What was honestly the big deal. Could alcohol lead to disaster? If I did not consume alcohol because of it's effects, then where does the line get drawn. Tea? Coffee? Soda? Chocolate Milk? Should it just be water? I suppose it could lead to disaster, and it has- but then it also has not. So I drank the glass of wine, which I used to enjoy with dinner before I became hardcore. It was pleasant. And the sky did not fall. Some people said I broke my edge. Actually it was something quite different.

And you know what? My head did not explode either. I did not become a drunkard. That's the thing, for many people a prohibition against booze is a good thing. But too many people focus on the hammer and nail and not the house.


The pursuit of Chan does not lie in comparison of your personal practice to others.

There you have it. That's why we can have an illiterate wood chopper as a lineage holder and patriarch. do you think if Hui Neng ate garlic he would not have been passed the robe and bowl? Adhering to precepts had nothing to do with his attainment. Here was man who was not a monk who was more of a monk than those who later tried to kill him.

Let's face it- everyone has attachments. Is he attached to the title "monk?" I think it is a big part of what he is. Like a painter saying, I am an artist, and now because you do not like the art you say "oh he calls himself a painter but he is not." Well he shows his work, has peers who acknowledge him as an artist so...my question is who are you to define them and what have you done to lend weight to your opinion? He's got paint under his finger nails. As far as I am concerned, Shi Yan Ming is in the trenches the way a lot of other monks should be, and I am glad for the opportunity to make a difference in this way.

Usually if people press him on a definition of what he is, he dissembles and says I am whatever you want me to be. Other times he is adamant about what he is. It depends.

Personally, I could beleive everything he says - that he's risen above the attachments of liquor, meat, and sex - if he could also rise above the attachment of being a monk.


But that's the thing- it's not something you "rise" above. You are in this world. You are a part of it. Sometimes he eats meat. Sometimes.

That's the breakdown point of Buddha's teachings- the transcendental signifier if you will. "Attachments" are part of the bag. It's like wondering, did Buddha rise above taking pleasure in a good dump. Hence the dichotomy- you see this kind of spiritual structure in pretty much all transcendental spiritual processes- buddhism is not unique in this regard- it's just another convenient spiritual label we can use in conversation to point to a recognized process- but without this kind of cross wiring in the process and structure of the system you can not break down and experience directly. It's not what goes into a man that makes him impure, but what comes out.

Gene I hope my tone is conversational- I appreciate you bringing the book up- I think it is an important small step in getting some accurate stuff out there.

My purpose in bringing up other monks is simply to provide contextual examples of monks who do basically the same thing as Yan Ming- both within and without his system. Prominent, in the spotlight monks- like the Dalai Lama, Thich Nat Hahn.

What do you think about the transmitters after the CR who came back to Shaolin with family in tow? Whose sons became monks? If I were a young monk and I saw that these men were still monks, doing their work, their families with them....well then why not me? And if I were a Catholic priest, and learned the truth about my celibacy you can bet I would start to really wonder.

Ricky-
Frankly- I don't feel the need to make "excuses" for anyone- you say something about someone who is not here to speak on their own behalf, and you run your mouth off spitting tripe about things you don't know, then yes I will open mine. I'm supposed to sit here and stay quiet, lol, while you get your digs in. Let's get something straight- there isn't a thing you could say or think that will change the good works being done by him and his disciples- and I'm one of them. That continues despite all the negative posts in all the forums, and the reason why is that you're wrong, and now I have corrected you, and when that is done in defense- suddenly people are making "excuses" etc. Your big beef Ricky is adherence to the precepts and that you heard and think- baselessly- that he's got a lot of dough. LOL!!

Yet the fact remains, no monastic follows all the precepts, and he is not banking mad cash to retire in Rio in 5 years. And some of the precepts have been added in to no benefit or detraction to their actual purpose of attainment. Please don't try and tell me about monastics, because I have been around them in one way or another pretty much my whole life.

Ricky- I would say you need to learn more about the world of Buddhism in general, and monastics in particular. You're ignorant on more than a few things, the meat issue a big one- some even have to eat bugs for their meals.

[GeneChing]

But too many people focus on the hammer and nail and not the house.
You got to focus the hammer on the nail to build a house. I think that's the problem with most people today. They buy prebuilt houses. They don't understand hammer and nail. To me, true Shaolin is all about hammer and nail. But that might be a little too metaphoric and garlic doesn't enter into it. I suppose I could counter your wine anecdote with one of mine after working with drug patients at the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic, but I think that would take our discussion on a personal level and skirt the basic issue of what it means to be a monk. There's no doubt in my mind that Shi Yanming could do equally good work without the monk title. It shouldn't be about that at all. There's the attachment. The definition of a monk is one of Shaolin's most tricky concepts, mostly because the definition of wuseng is so soft, but also due to the fallout of the CR. You can look at the dictionary definition, but in English, we don't really have terms to address things like wuseng or even fangtuo seng. In English, a monk is just someone who lives at a monastery and is accepted by his monkish brothers.

Buddhism is about extinction. That's the reaal definition of nirvana. I suppose you could say 'sink below' as much as 'rise above' but the bottom line is you got to get past the attachments. The bottom line is you can't take a good dump without first taking a good meal.

I hope my tone is conversation too, Richard. You know me - we're old Shaolin cousins and I'm always a Shaolin devil's advocate to some degree. I respect Yanming and I miss interacting with him. The last time I saw him was when I was with Martha making Shaolin Ulysses (http://www.martialartsmart.net/prmb001.html). And the last time I spoke to Sophia was years ago, just prior to one of our Shaolin Specials. Was that the 2003 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=397)? I can't remember exactly, but it's been a long time.

[rickyscaggs]

Buddhism is about extinction. That's the reaal definition of nirvana.

That's so not right. :confused:

Richard, may I ask what "monastics" you have been around your whole life? Your understanding of monastic life sounds "new age" to say the least. :rolleyes: It's my opinion but I think it's completely missing the point of monasticism.

[GeneChing]

Ever look up the word Nirvana? (http://www.bartleby.com/61/40/N0114000.html)

[Shaolinlueb]

im so sick and tired of seeing hammerfists in forms. god i cant believe you bring it up gene.......:rolleyes:


ninjetta's?

[David Jamieson]

buddhism as a practice is about first, the four noble truths, then using the eight fold path to live your life so that you may pass into extinction(if you like :-) ) and break the cycle of rebirth and death.

To cease the cycle is complete and utter freedom for the suffering that life is.

so, yes, it is about finding a way to make oneself extinct.

Having said that, I have to say that although there are 'living acts' of buddhism that I respect and admire, the underlying concept to me is innaccurate.

For me, although life does have suffering within it, It is not suffering in and of itself and I would hope that if reincarnation was true, that I would indeed be able to experience life againa nd again throughout all time. To feel, to taste, to touch, to have the use of all ones faculties and senses is no suffering to me.

All Life is change. We only remain in ruts because we keep ourselves in them. We only suffer, because we perpetuate our own suffering through our own fear and ignorance and unwillingness to change.

So, no Nirvana for me thanks, Im not interested in never getting to suffer again. Suffering is a great teacher and shapes our hearts and minds with each encounter with it. Depending on how self absorbed one is, the lessons of suffering can lead to being able to help others not have to in similar circumstances where hindsight is clear.

[richard sloan]

well there is no doubt the CR threw a big monkey wrench in the term "monk" and Shaolin was always one of those round pegs in square hole kind of things- as we know it and many want to use it you are right there is no easy translation sometimes of the word, which is why I leave it up to them,the monks themselves. Sometimes your lips just have to be sealed, especially regarding some of the context and background- family stuff.

Of course you need a hammer and nail to build, but Gene when you've got it built you can set them aside or use them as you need. Maybe you change hammers, use steel nails instead of zinc, or you figure a way to not need them at all like a Japanese farmhouse- you still get a structure. You're not going to have to keep them nearby like when you were building. That's the metaphor. If you just focus on the hammer and nails you'll never get anywhere- you're going to be the poor sucker monk who keeps getting whacked with the stick.

There are tons of cracks which display some rather silly developments in the precepts, and quite a few practices that seem to refute the idea most people have in their heads as to what it means to be a "monk." Some people have an idea that monks must be reclusives, locked up in their little rooms in little temples stuffed way up on mountains. Yet there is such a rich tradition of mendicant and traveling monks. The stuff with women is particularly enlightening. I mean, forget the hungry ghost stuff- the dietary prohibitions are such a canard it should be self evident. Even before the ghosts get involved onions and garlic increase desire or passions...that made me laugh when I read it. I didn't know they had Listerine back then, lol...but it makes you wonder how Buddha's family managed to even join him when you read some of the stuff these guys came up with after his death.

and the funny thing is, the people with most hangups about the word and it's definitions are rarely monks.

Maybe Shi Su Yun felt the same way as Gotoma did, when his son became a monk...and he could look on his family as one...

Wouldn't you say it is more about being the one thus come rather than the one snuffed out...what I mean is there is no sinking or rising. There is. The snuffing out or extinction of desire- it's not enough to just say that, there is a lot more to it...when your belly hungers, whether you eat sooner or later eventually you eat the same way- you take in nourishment and you can take pleasure in that nourishment and not be subjected to desire, per se. So it is not enough to say desire, the context too is very important.

Ricky- You are actually a funny guy. "New Age" he says...hilarious...I can't wait to tell people you said that. Man you have some funny opinions.

Seriously folks, he is here all night...

[GeneChing]

Our hammer and nail analogy is beginning to remind me of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintence. There's that passage (and it's been years since I've read it so forgive the paraphasing) about not being able to change a tire and having to refocus on just removing the lug nuts. I agree with you that the hammer and nails can be discarded after the house is built, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be engaged. It's just like you got to remove the lug nuts first. Therein lies the rub.

It's very akin to Bruce Lee's Classical Mess issue. It's easy for him to say that after being classically trained, but it leaves a rather poor role model for those that follow. The next generation that follows are tempted to disregard the classical hammer before even laying a foundation. That's straight out dangerous. You know how easily zen can go bad. It is the razor's edge and a lot of people get cut. Zen's moral code, it's sense of compassion, can be easily disregarded if you forsake the discipline. But still, what you're describing sounds a lot more like taoist shamanism than Buddhism, and while there is a lot of cross over, especially in the Chinese circles, they are distinct. At a certain point, if you're going to break with tradition, you might as well call it something else. That's what Bruce Lee did. Hell, that's what Sin The did too.

Zen is in a really weird place in America now. We're a product. We're a house cleaner and an MP3 player. Does that happen with other religions? Where's my air freshener called catholic and my iJew iPod? But anyone who has studied zen knows that this was originally a discipline for monks, not for laypeople. You can mock the ancestors all you want for their 'silly' precepts, but that is the very nature of tradition. If you don't like those traditions, if you don't accept them, you shouldn't call yourself part of the sangha. You should go out and forge your own way. Start something new, something that won't be commercialized into a product name. Truly evovle.

[rickyscaggs]

To cease the cycle is complete and utter freedom for the suffering that life is.

so, yes, it is about finding a way to make oneself extinct.

This statement is a little faulty. It is not Buddhism but Nihilism. Can you point out the self that we are trying to make extinct?

When you reach Nirvana it means you have cut off all roots of suffering, but you continue to live until the end of your natural life, at which point comes "Parinirvana" which is still not extinction of "oneself".

Gene- You should say "Buddhism is about extinction of suffering" otherwise you're misleading people by saying "Buddhism is about extinction" as David just showed us.

Richard- Nice reply. Who would have thought you wouldn't have anything to answer?

[shaolinboxer]

Yan Ming is an actor, a performer, a teacher, a lot of good things.

But saying most of these guys are monks is like saying the guy in the goofy costume at disney world is a real dog.

[DoGcHoW108]

Should a Buddhist monk enjoy alcohol, meat, polygamy, fame and fortune? I guess thats a matter of, erm...perspective.

To me, it seems like the more we apologize for these guys or use the philosophical gymnastics of relativity to cover up for their lack of integrity, the more they get away with.

I can be happy for someone who makes it the way some of these dudes have, but not when so much of it seems to be built on deception. What can I say, when the first thing a buddhist monk does when i am introduced to him is hand me a business card or try to sell me something, its disillusioning. After all, i didnt just barf up this image of a humble buddhist monk here to spread dharma and teach gong fu as a form of discipline- this is an image the temple and its monks have widely painted of themselves. It only makes sense, then, that people get frustrated when these guys often (though not always) turn out to be greedy, materialistic businessmen.

As far as the quality of the gong-fu is concerned, i really couldnt care less how fight-worthy it is. The way i see it, many people like to prance around with this idea that "gongfu" dosent just mean martial art but really dont believe it themselves. From what I have seen, "gongfu" (shaolin and non-shaolin) has been a variety of different things in each of the places it existed. it has gone through a transition from meditative yoga-like excercises to fighting techniques to sport to parlor tricks and who the hell knows where next in one place, and in another it has gone from sexual practices, circle-walking, to martial arts...you get the point.
so really, [B]to gripe about the combat-efficiency of wushu or shaolin gongfu is pointless.

BUT

When it comes down to it, if you advertise something you have to live up to it. When you make yourself out to be something you are not, you have a lot of deserved criticism coming your way and no amount of culture-difference and pilosophical nonsense will exempt you from it. All this talk about "we cant hold them to standards we dont reach" is apologetic horse-****. It is not unreasonable to expect eomeone to live up to standards they claim to embody.

Some of these guys seriously dont realize that there are people who know better than to just take their word for all this. I have crossed hands with quite a few martial artists in my time and although it kills me to say it, by far the weakest ive ever seen in terms of application and touch presence have been monks. Yet those very monks will swear up and down that theirs is the ultimate fighting system, incorporating the very best of both internal and external discipline. and that I am "number one!" if i practice shaolin.

The focus of these so-called monks is very obvious when you look at their students. I would greatly encourage whoever goes to tournaments where monk schools have a presence to take a look at what the students excel in. In the competitions ive been in, students of monk schools overwhelmed wushu portions of the competition. backstreet-boy after backstreet-boy dazzled the crowd with jumping kicks, barrel rolls and splits.
How do they fare in terms of focus on the traditional stuff? one word sums it up:

Laughable

the tiny bit of "traditional" they did was, at best, abridged (whitness the horribly abridged version of XHQ). I kid you not when I say half of these guys almost fell over backwards in a horse-step. When i say laughable its because i honestly laughed out loud when i saw them. they completely lacked any structure or form of power. none of the twisting, coiling power that you see in the few remaining monks that have an idea what theyre doing, and certainly no grounding foundation. Their movements were sloppy, empty and lacked force.
As far as San-Da theres two points i'd like to make.

1- Why do some of these guys need to invite muai thai coaches to come to teir school? (ive personally seen this)

2- if shaolin is so awesome and comprehensive, why do they have to teach you ring fighting instead of actual fighting?


The best place to look at when you want to know where a teacher's head is at is the students. The only thing they seemed to have were pretty, shiny outfits, flashy hairstyles and a condescending attitude. Yea, very humble- very Shaolin. Fits in perfectly with the marketing scheme. they dont train martial artists or buddhist disciples, they train Champs and wanna-be movie stars.

the way I see it, they could do just as well and have a much less damaged reputation if they dropped the buddhist facade and went all-out wushu. Why claim to be a school of traditional shaolin gong fu when your are not? Or, on the other hand, if this is really whats being practiced at the temple, why not advertise that?

All seems unnecessary to me, for all the talk about these people's integrity, they sure seem irresponsible. this kind of stuff is the reason that BJJ nut-jockeys are right to laugh at TCM practitioners.

[rickyscaggs]

Sad but true, and the "Buddhist" wushu disciples actually think they're getting something more or different.

[Lokhopkuen]

Yan Ming is a cool guy!

He visited my school once with Sophia when he was in LA and we had dinner twice. A real character he is. I ran into him and his students in China in 2001. His students love him! He is a MARTIAL ART INSTRUCTOR OF THE SHAOLIN here in the US and I think people are taking this monk nonsense way too serious. The gentleman is private citizen of our country and deserves the respect of any advanced martial teacher, no? You guys should stop jaw jacking and go practice your fu. Maybe you'd be half as good as Yan Ming......
S h i t I’m gonna go practice right now! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Peace

[shaolinboxer]

There would be no problem if Yan Ming wanted to be respected simply as a martial arts teacher. The problem is that he, and many other "monks", demand that we see them as more than that.

[rickyscaggs]

Exactly.

Lokhopkuen- You obviously didn't even read this discussion. No one had doubts about his MA ability, but that's besides the point.

[Lokhopkuen]

I read it before I posted bro.

Yang Ming is bigger than life no doubt but he never made any bones about his lofty Monk status to me. On the workout floor his energy is contageous and I respect THAT.

"Shaolin Monk" seems to be a big coin in the martial arts world these days but are any of those cats REALLY monks? Aren't the guys from the traveling Shaolin show graduates of the Shaolin Sports school? Are they really Chan Buddhist Monks? I 've always wanted to know. Also I love the guys who spend a few months or a year at one of the Shaolin schools and come back here a Master of martial arts. That is a cool phenom 4 real.

Peace

[Brad]

Are they really Chan Buddhist Monks?
I'm pretty sure Shi Guolin was a monk before setting foot in Shaolin.

[GeneChing]

Well, there's the rub. Shaolin has a special category of monks known as wuseng. A wuseng is a warrior monk. He doesn't necessarily take all the vows of a regular Buddhist monk, specifically abstenance from liquor or meat eating, but he is still supposed to be chaste. The wuseng is a very grey area for Shaolin, because it's very difficult to determine who actually certifies a wuseng. Typically, it's master/student as tradition demands, but there are a lot of masters at Shaolin, hundreds with genuine connections to the temple lineage, and thousands more who were either imported or raised in Dengfeng. It's very complicated, and it has been so for centuries. You can find historical records that complain about the behavior of fangtouseng (subsidiary shrine monks) not meeting up to Buddhist standards, just like the people complaining about Shi Yanming here.

I wrote this cover story for our 2004 Shaolin Special, specifically to address this FAQ, (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=501) and in it, I didn't even touch on the fangtouseng issue.

[richard sloan]

Sad but true, and the "Buddhist" wushu disciples actually think they're getting something more or different.

What did you "hear" about "it" to "know?"

Lok- while things are confusing to those outside, the transmission of Dharma is unbroken from pre Shi You San attack to now...particularly amongst the Cao Dong monks within Su Xi's family.

So yes they are monks, are as Ricky likes to put it, "monks."

[Lokhopkuen]

Thanks guys I appreciate the education on the subject!

I'm gonna go teach someone something gung fu related.

Peace

[Brad]

Well, there's the rub. Shaolin has a special category of monks known as wuseng. A wuseng is a warrior monk. He doesn't necessarily take all the vows of a regular Buddhist monk, specifically abstenance from liquor or meat eating, but he is still supposed to be chaste.
Has it allways been like this, or is the special category a more recent development?

[DoGcHoW108]

Is it as much by chance that this special category of monks exists in shaolin as it is by chance that the noble buddhist-yet-warrior shaolin monk image happens to be an extremely marketable and prophitable one?

Also,


Lokhopkuen:

"Also I love the guys who spend a few months or a year at one of the Shaolin schools and come back here a Master of martial arts. That is a cool phenom 4 real.

Peace"

Lokhopkuen:

"Thanks guys I appreciate the education on the subject!

I'm gonna go teach someone something gung fu related.

Peace"


Dogchow108: rofl



On a related note, from Gene's article:

"Almost all Shaolin demonstration teams will don robes and shave their heads, whether they are monks or not. Some might even go on international demonstration tours posing as monks.

This is where what is real and what is "fake" becomes grey as a disciple robe."

I am of the opinion that the reasons or this grey zone are not only new, but extremely money-oriented. Besides, since when is the Abbot of shaolin supposed to be a rich, money-grubbing government drone?

This is the kind of thing that leads to Damasco-style "Shaolin".


Again, i think this whole grey zone thing only comes about because we allow it to. I think that these guys know **** well what westerners think they are and that they are smart enough to capitalize off it. When they do that, we apologize for them. Seriously, how many glamour-shots does it take for one to get the picture?

I'm cursing at myself right now that i cant find that one with the kid being all sad about the dead bunny. anyone seen that one?

[GeneChing]

That's a key question and I'm surprised it took so long for some one to ask it. According to popular legend, the creation of the wuseng class of monk is attributed to the first Tang Emperor, Li Shinmen (aka Taizong born 599 CE, reigned 626-649 CE). Taizong's stele still stands at Shaolin Temple and is one of the most important pieces in Shaolin's vast stele holdings. It was erected in 728 and contains seven separate texts recounting heroism of the Shaolin monks and the Emperor's decree. No where in that stele is there a discussion of wuseng, meat eating or liquor drinking. It's more likely that the association of Li Shinmen with the creation of a carnivous liquor-imbibing class of Shaolin monk is fictional - it's very prominent in Jet Li's debut film Shaolin Temple (http://www.martialartsmart.net/dvd40021.html).

To be honest, I'm not sure exactly when the term wuseng arises. It may indeed be a modern term. However, it's worthy of note that fangtouseng has a historical basis and the same criticisms levelled at wuseng were levelled at fangtouseng. In essence, the terms are parallel. Fangtouseng is just less flattering. One thing is for certain. Yanming's lack of dietary abstainences are not unprecedented in the Shaolin order. In fact, it has an extensive history that dates back even earlier than Li Shinmen. For the details, please consult our e-zine article Meat, Wine, and Fighting Monks: Did Shaolin Monks breach Buddhist Dietary Regulations? by Dr. Meir Shahar (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=521).

[GeneChing]

All I can say is that The Shaolin Workout will definitely add to the controversies surrounding Yanming and all the power to him for doing that. It's like throwing gasoline on the fire. And it's coming from Rodale, which is the kicker. If you know anything about the publishing world, you know the power of Rodale. Few martial arts books have been published on this level. Most of our books are either vanity published or small publishers like North Atlantic, Ohara, Unique, et. al. I'm very excited for Yanming. I expect this thread will light up again when the book is released and the rest of you get a chance to review it. :cool:

[GeneChing]

As I mentioned before, Rodale is a serious publisher. Few martial arts books have been published on this level and it's to Yanming's credit. I imagine there will be increased focus on our Manhatten Shaolin rep, so as to not clutter to forum up too much, I'm going to collate any new articles here, whether or not they are directly linked to the book.

This Monk Is a Boldface Name (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/nyregion/thecity/14monk.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
By PETER RITTER
Published: May 14, 2006

As a young monk in the legendary Shaolin Temple in China, Sifu Shi Yan Ming learned to break rocks with his skull, deflect blades with his skin, sleep while hanging upside down from a tree branch, and dangle a 50-pound weight from his scrotum.

He was thus ideally prepared for the rigors of Manhattan living.

Since opening the U.S.A. Shaolin Temple in Greenwich Village in 1996, Yan Ming has given the 1,500-year-old martial order of Shaolin an American makeover, attracting numerous celebrity disciples and writing a workout book. With plans to expand the franchise, Yan Ming is having a party on Saturday to raise money for a new, larger temple in upstate New York.

"I want to bring all the traditions and training of Shaolin into the 21st century," Yan Ming, who is 42, said one afternoon before leading a class of orange-uniformed followers through a grueling kung fu workout of leaps, punches and whirling-dervish kicks.

An expansive man with a shaved head and a smile as quick as his fists, Yan Ming has taken to his role as Shaolin's leading advocate with gusto. He greets his students by yelling "Merry Christmas!" "I am the most handsome monk in the world," he likes to say. "I want everybody to be like so-good-looking Sifu."

The walls of the U.S.A. Shaolin Temple, which occupies a high-ceilinged loft in a nondescript building on Lower Broadway, are covered with photos of Yan Ming with his many famous admirers.

He has trained the actors Wesley Snipes, Rosie Perez and Bokeem Woodbine. RZA, a member of the Wu-Tang Clan, whose affection for kung fu movies is well documented, calls Yan Ming "master." Another friend, the movie director Jim Jarmusch, gave the monk a small part in his 1999 film, "Ghost Dog."

"Lots of fun," Yan Ming said of his screen debut. "They said, 'Like this, like that.' I said, 'No problem.' "

Yan Ming, who defected to the United States in 1992 while performing with a troupe of Shaolin kung fu experts, is hardly a typical Buddhist warrior monk. He eats meat, for instance, and he enjoys Champagne, which he calls "very special French water."

Yan Ming, who has two children with his partner, Sophia Chang, a music promoter and the temple's manager, also disregards the monk's traditional vow of celibacy. "I'm too handsome for that," he explained.

Yan Ming said he decided to leave Shaolin in part because he felt stifled by the monastery's strictures. "In the temple," he said, "monks have 250 rules. Two hundred fifty! Just think of that! You cannot drink. You cannot eat spices. You cannot drink bottled water. You cannot look at a woman. That's just crazy. It's the 21st century, you know?

"I had American dreams," he added. "In China, there are too many limitations. Here, you can do a lot of things if you have the ability. You can express yourself. That's why everybody loves the United States."

If Yan Ming's lifestyle raises eyebrows among more conservative monks, his students speak of him with the reverence reserved for a sage. Nor do Shaolin's American adherents seem bothered by Yan Ming's celebrity cachet. After kung fu class, a student approached the monk and handed him a screenplay titled "Bionic Monk."

"Very good," Yan Ming said, beaming.

[shaolinboxer]

All of these articles are the same. The old boy still says the same buzz lines.

[richard sloan]

I have learned a lot about the press over the years.

I'll just leave it at that, lol...

I got my hands on a copy of the book sent to the temple the other day. It is tight with a capital T.

What we were really hoping to get out of this NYT piece was a mention for the fundraiser this weekend at Pier 63...and a focus on the Capital Campaign and upcoming seminar series in Mexico.

[GeneChing]

....sounds like you wanted some free advertising. That's the other side of the sword with the press. Speaking as a press person, we make our living through advertising. People often come to me with something they want to promote. In fact, someone (Kris) invited me to your fundraiser, which I really wish I could attend, but it's the other side of the country and I'm already booked. Typically, there's nothing in it for us (the press) so in this case, I wouldn't fault Ritter. There was nothing in it for him to promote your event, and the story of Yanming was probably a fun write for him, so he went where most others went with it. His only error is that he didn't really research Yanming and just reiterated previous articles, so for us it all looks like rehash. Anyway, we hope to give you some coverage for the event. Kris said he'll supply us with some exclusive press release after it happens. Best of luck with the fundraiser.

The coverage/promotion issue is always a challenge, especially in the martial world where everyone has something to promote. I might venture so far to say that I've personally given Yanming a lot of coverage. I think he's a fascinating one, and would give him even more if it was copesetic. But I don't even see any reprints of my work for him on his website archives (http://www.usashaolintemple.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=1&id=69&Itemid=82). What's more, the articles that are reprinted ther from our publication are reprinted without permission. Typically, for web reprints, you need to request permission of the publisher, and we would happily grant that as long as a crediting copyright hyperlink is posted. It would be polite etiquette if this was rectified.

[richard sloan]

well Gene that is easy enough to rectify. In fact I thought permission had been granted...? But I don't know, there have been a lot of hands through the years working on that as it is always a labor of love and volunteers.

What's missing article wise? You know we'd have no problem linking you with bells and whistles.

What you say is exactly what I think happened with Ritter and a few other writers. It's a fun story for them, so they run with the fun stuff. Especially since he is so different from their first perception. I mean if that were my beat I sure as hell would do the same thing, and since he is a natural ham it's easy. I used to work for a large suburban newspaper and that was always the case, even when there might actually be a bigger story or something different going on. I don't fault the press at all, you just have to realize how it works. Like when film crews come- some of the really great stuff hits the cutting room floor for whatever reason, never makes it to the screen, and you know people who see the end result always assume like the temple is the won doing the edit!! Like Yan Ming knows final cut, lol...

Too bad you can't make it! I am going to be dropping some hot tunes right from jamdung. I think I broke Baby Cham's Ghetto Story at Shifu's last birthday party, lol...it was great, nobody even knew the song but I played it like 5 times, no joke.

[GeneChing]

Well, now you're talking. ;) Yeah, it sounds like a lot of fun. Sorry I can't be there. Actually, it's been years since I spent any time in NYC. The closest I get there now is passing through JFK on my way to the Zhang San Feng Festival (http://www.taichifest.com/).

As for updating the links, let's take that up on email and not clutter the forum with it.

[GeneChing]

One of my good friends who works at Bookshop Santa Cruz (www.bookshopsantacruz.com/) tells me they just received two copies of Yanming's book. It does not have a street release date, so I imagine they will be showing up at your local bookstore as soon as the retailers start shelving them.

[Shaolindynasty]

Here it is http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&isbn=1594864004&itm=1

[GeneChing]

So far, only three reviews, and they are exactly as I predicted in post 53 of this thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=670338&postcount=53). Two reviews are fawning; the third is panning. I'll be very interested to hear the reactions of the rest of you here. I'll be even more interested to see how much Rodale invests in the promotional campaign. That will be the most telling.

richard sloan: Do you know if Rodale has any plans for a signing tour? Also how did the fundraiser go? I emailed you about rectifying the archive (http://www.usashaolintemple.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=1&id=69&Itemid=82) crediting situation last week and your email bounced back, but Kris said he'd take care of it. So far, I don't see the changes, but it was only last week.

[Banjos_dad]

Gene, do you know if the book will be available through Martialartsmart.com? I just moved so i'm tapped out and can't get one right now anyway. Lol, now that i think about it, i will go down to B&N in town today and see if they have one i can goggle for nothing & steal a technique or two LOL . sorry Shi Yanming! i will buy one later anyway.
have a good day. btw, my gp's live in Santa Cruz, totally unique vibe there, i always really liked it. they lost everywindow in ther place during the loma prieta quake, but a lot of folks lost way more than that & traffic was really disrupted for a l-o-n-g old time.

[richard sloan]

So far, only three reviews, and they are exactly as I predicted in post 53 of this thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=670338&postcount=53). Two reviews are fawning; the third is panning. I'll be very interested to hear the reactions of the rest of you here. I'll be even more interested to see how much Rodale invests in the promotional campaign. That will be the most telling.


lol...like that one review is not some hack. I would lay odds homeboy never even read the book!



richard sloan: Do you know if Rodale has any plans for a signing tour? Also how did the fundraiser go? I emailed you about rectifying the archive (http://www.usashaolintemple.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=1&id=69&Itemid=82) crediting situation last week and your email bounced back, but Kris said he'd take care of it. So far, I don't see the changes, but it was only last week.

On the Signing Tour- there is an event I think this week at Astor Pl, and I have heard some rumblings about some other events in the pipeline. Next up for us travel wise is Mexico, for some seminars at the temple we have there...but I would expect some kind of tour because I know they are very very pleased with the outcome. I went to the local book store and there simply were not a lot of books of this calibre- print quality wise/etc- on the shelf. A lot of hooey and self appointed grandmaster this and that. Maybe there were a couple of nice yoga books. IF I had to make a complaint, I think the title is a little on the hokey side and the publisher wrestled over it so...I think they compromised for positioning to the greater audience that it could reach and help.

Kris mentioned something about the web stuff but I will shoot you a PM myself as my brother handles much of that stuff for our website.

The party was great, Beau Sia was hilarious, DJ Spooky ran some video remixes, and the demo team did their thing also. We had a decent crowd right to the end and the big tune was Ghetto Story followed by some new tracks on the Baddis Ting riddim and Madonna's Hung Up which I extended through some of the remixes.

[GeneChing]

Banjos_dad: MartialArtsMart (http://www.martialartsmart.net/) will not be carrying Sh Yanming's book. Since it is being distributed by Rodale, it will be available everywhere. Our modest online book offerings cannot compete with the likes of Amazon, B&N, Walmart, etc. For the most part, we limit our book selection to smaller publishers. Honestly, there's not a lot of money in books.

richard sloan: If you think that that 'hack' is the only criticism Yanming will receive on The Shaolin Workout, you really need to wake up. The book has its flaws and there is a large contingent of martial critics that will take advantage of those. That happens whenever you commit to print, and that's a fact that I'm intimately aware of.

[richard sloan]

oh sure I fully expect there to be negative reviews, that is only natural, and it promises to just be the first. For martial artists, there might not be that much meat on it, except that the top is the bottom and the bottom is the top, and flexibility is super important- something many martial artists do lack.

I call that one a hack because it is so obviously written by a troll- i would lay bets that the tool never even read the book.

[GeneChing]

They've obviously read it and are completely unbiased. :p

I just got *another* call from a reporter asking about Yanming. I told him Yanming plaguerized articles for his website. Just kidding. I was very nice, I think. He called just before lunch and I was hungry. Plus he thought Shaolin Temple was in Xian. He said he was at a recent book signing and was doing an article for a major business paper. If he forwards it to me as promised, I'll post it here.

[Songshan]

Well I was strolling through my local Barnes and Nobles and saw the book. I picked it up, flipped through it, and immediately made my way to the cash register (I acted like I just discovered gold, lol). Once I got home, I read it and I must say it was a fresh approach to Shaolin Kung Fu. I enjoyed reading the biography of Shi Yan Ming, some of his students and "28 day plan". I found the book enlightening and have to say I loved the book. The photos of some of the students truly reflect their master. Maybe I am a little biased of course but a book put together quite well. In my opinion a good read and worth buying ;)

[shaolinboxer]

I have read it now (it's at the local b & n).

I'm glad he published it.

I think people will be pretty polarized about it. On one side will be his "disciples" saying how incredible it is without really considering what's in it. And on the other side will be those who have trained there and have moved on with a bad taste in their mouth who will rip into it without really consider what's in it.

The disciples will say "yan ming is incredible and handsome ohmitofu train harder more chi" and the ex-students will say he's a hack.

The guy has kids who need to be supported, so I hope it sells a little.

[Songshan]

Well for one I am NOT a disciple of Shi Yan Ming. I do not even train at his school. On the other hand, I do train with one of the monks in Houston. What I like about most about this book is that he is the first monk to publish a book of this type here in the USA (great idea!). A Shaolin book by a Shaolin monk. It's priceless. It's more authentic than the bozo who travels to Shaolin stays for 3-4 weeks, comes back (never goes back) and drops a book. That's garbage. It also shows that modern day Shaolin is not fake either. I am not sure why so many think that monks who run schools or publish things are hungry for money? Everyone these days need to earn money to make a living here....heck just to survive anyway. It's not any different than anyone else who publishes books to earn some money. It's smart and it's a BUSINESS (key word). Perhaps one day the stereotype of the "Shaolin monk being poor and homeless sitting in a monastery" will go away.

[Shaolindynasty]

I just got the book. It is pretty good. I especially like the meditations.