Certified Shaolin Schools. Where are they?

[gruevy]

This thread is to post where your school or teacher is. I was starting to wonder today where good schools are to be found. I only know of Wing Lam, who is sorta famous, the martial monk in New York from my other thread, and my teacher.

Please only post if your teacher knows his lineage and can prove that his system is the authentic Shaolin, usually by having the right certificates from China, and not Shaolin that was a family style for a century or two, or anything like that. You probably know what I mean. It's not that the authentic ones or more enlightened or better fighters or anything, although they usually are, ;) it's just that I really only want to know about the authentic ones.

My teacher is sifu Tim Gasper, who learned from the late grandmaster Kwok Sin Fong (unsure about spelling, don't have it written down anywhere) of the Hunan temple, and he teaches in the Ogden and Layton areas of Utah.

[Shaolin Master]

Since you are concerned with authenticity. Please correct the following:

You wrote 'Hunan' (Note Hunan is a province in south China) - presume you mean Henan.

You also wrote Kwok Sin Fong who is he and who did he learn from ? what did he learn and teach ?

All this being so how old was Kwok Sin Fong, why does he have a cantonese name and how did you prove his authenticity.

Thanks :)

[MasterKiller]

You mean this guy?

Tama Ryu Kenpo Jujitsu system from the late Grandmaster Donald Fong. This eclectic system integrates the arts of Chinese Shaolin Kung-fu, Okinawan Kempo Karate-do, Judo and Jujitsu.


That Tim Gasper?

Bwahhahahahahahaha.

Kempo.

Bwahhahahahahahaha.

[gruevy]

Since you are concerned with authenticity. Please correct the following:

You wrote 'Hunan' (Note Hunan is a province in south China) - presume you mean Henan.

You also wrote Kwok Sin Fong who is he and who did he learn from ? what did he learn and teach ?

All this being so how old was Kwok Sin Fong, why does he have a cantonese name and how did you prove his authenticity.

Thanks :)

Fine. Henan. Bite me :/

The dude was old when he was teaching Tim, which was for about 10 years right up before the Vietnam War. He got his training in the Henan Shaolin Temple itself. I guess the story is that he ran away when the communists took over. As for verifying authenticity, he has some convincing scrolls that weren't photocopied, but really, it's because he's shown me forms years ago that weren't really available anywhere until very recently. Now you can only buy them on VCD or VHS from the temple. Then there's all the crazy stuff the man can do.

Masterkiller: Nope, wrong person. But thanks for contributing.

As far as testing whether or not it's true shaolin, one good way is that shaolin has no need to mix any karate or anything into it. If you are taught shaolin and kempo or whatever, it's probably not the real deal. Also, if your teacher advertises that he teaches only/mostly some animal form or other, like Mantis or Crane, it's probably not straight from the temple. Animal forms are for learning after you learned the 10 hand set, which are ten very complicated forms meant to be practiced and demonstrated in order without stopping.

But all that aside, if you think your teacher is the real deal, then put him up here. I'm not planning on flying out to test your claims, and neither is anyone else. I was just curious, and want to gather a bit of data from what I had hoped would be willing members of this forum.

[MasterKiller]

Masterkiller: Nope, wrong person. But thanks for contributing.

Ok...this Tim Gasper trained under Donald Fong, and your Tim Gasper trained under Kwok Sin Fong.

That's a mighty big coincidence, wouldn't you say? Two completely Tim Gasper's who trained under men named Fong, both claiming Chinese Shaolin Kung Fu as one of their systems. But the one I listed studied Kenpo, and yours has a direct Shaolin heritage.

BTW...I have some waterfront property for sale in Oklahoma City. Right by the beach. You want in? :D

[Shaolindynasty]

You should realise that this post is gonna get you some flack. It's a little insulting to allot of people.

This thread is to post where your school or teacher is. I was starting to wonder today where good schools are to be found. I only know of Wing Lam, who is sorta famous, the martial monk in New York from my other thread, and my teacher.


This leaves out allot of people. Are you new to CMA? BTW, there are several monks and more importantly quite a larger number of highly qualified individuals teaching CMA in the USA than those three.

Please only post if your teacher knows his lineage and can prove that his system is the authentic Shaolin

you require this of other people even though you haven't done it.


not Shaolin that was a family style for a century or two, or anything like that

That leaves out everybody. Including what's practiced at Shaolin now. "Folk" masters make up the majority of Kungfu not martial monks and even what they practice comes from family styles

It's not that the authentic ones or more enlightened or better fighters or anything, although they usually are,

You make this assumption without having met any monks. "folk" masters are usually just as good as fighters. "Monkdom" doesn't endow you with special kungfu powers.

it's just that I really only want to know about the authentic ones

Again you provided no insight into your authenticity


I usually don't get involved with this kind of stuff but either your a newbie or completely clueless:confused:

[Shaolindynasty]

Never mind, I was just reading your other posts like this one. I've bolded the things that are not realistic and come from lack of experience

It's not necessarily striking magical death buttons, it's more like, with good finger strength, a crane student can pick individual ribs and break them, or dislocate a jaw. An accurate tiger or dragon claw can rip muscles apart from the bones they should be connected to. A palm is much easier to channel chi through for a video game type knock-em-head-over-heels punch than a fist is. That sort of thing.

All MMA that I have watched is nothing but slightly above-average boxing with some kicks thrown in, and your favorite variety of wrestling, and I was wondering if that's because the rules make it impossible to exercise some good old-fashioned artistry, or if it's because no one does it. I almost never see a decent wing chun punch block, for example, and that just boggles me.


You are new and clueless. Not your fault cause you also live in Utah which I'm sure gives you a limited exposure. .

Travel around and visit with some other practitioners and sifu, research on the web etc. but don't except anything without tons of research and experience.

BTW how old are you, how long have you trained and in what styles?

[GeneChing]

Wing Lam is my first Shaolin master. He has never had any sort of certification from Shaolin Temple. He doesn't need it. Shaolin is not about certification. Sifu Lam doesn't even practice the same kung fu that is practiced at Shaolin. See my e-zine article on Bak Sil Lum vs. Shaolin Temple (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=158) for more.

gruevy, you stepped in a hornet's nest by not doing your research before posting. Some say there's no such thing as a dumb question, but that adage doesn't hold true on a martial arts forum where members might cap on you for speaking naively. Everyone thinks their teacher is the 'real deal'. Post from mindfulness, not emotional reaction, and members will respond better....maybe. :rolleyes:

[gruevy]

Good Lord. I guess I need to make some things clear.

1 - I am not saying that if your style is not the temple style, that it sucks. There is great stuff out there, and it's all about your teacher.

1a - I just wanted to know where authentic Shaolin can be found around the world.

2 - I never asked anyone to prove anything here. Use your own judgement on whether or not it's authentic, and don't ask me to prove anything.

2a - I never intended to be publically patting myself on the back for being awesome. If it sounds that way, too bad. Sorry, or something.

3 - Calling me stupid or naive does not tell me where some authentic, traditional Shaolin schools are to be found around the world.

Now, because I might like to become a member of the forums since you don't all appear to be *******es, I will respond to some of the comments I got.

Yes, it is an incredible coincidence that there are two Tim Gaspers in the world who do martial arts. I know you have the wrong guy for two reasons: first, I found a picture and it's not him, and second, my Tim lived in Perry, Utah, in 1998, and the Tama Martial Arts Center is in Ohio. He also doesn't teach Kempo.

Now about the strikes from my other thread, a crane's beak is intended to strike pressure points, obviously, and another use for it is to strike places like the joints on ribs and break them. If you get your finger strength to where you can break bricks with a crane's beak, ribs shouldn't be much of a problem. By the way, can't you break ribs with a closed fist? Why should a crane's beak, which focuses all that strength on a smaller area, be any different?

Powerful tiger and dragon claws are not pokey palm strikes. With a tiger claw in particular, the heel of the palm does the striking while the fingers dig into something like the backside of a clavicle or an eye socket, and then one attempts to tear things away. Pecs are the easiest muscles to seriously damage with a claw. It's still very hard to do, and requires a lot of strength, timing, and anatomy knowledge, but its definitely doable. Kids, try this at home: about halfway between your nipple and the end of your clavicle, dig your finger in all the way to the bone, separating the muscle (sort of) with your fingers. Now while extending your arm in a punch, pull the muscle towards the center of the chest. If you time that just right, are pulling on the right part of the muscle, and really, really rip it inwards, the muscle can detach.

Now, as for the palm strike that I also mentioned sending people flying, do you guys not believe in the one inch punch, either?

I'm 24 and have been studying for around 7 years, with 6 years of that being Shaolin and my first year being Taekwondo. Ya, I know. That's why I quit and found Shaolin.

I guess Wing Lam doesn't teach straight Shaolin. I kind of assumed he did because he used to be friends with my teacher, and he teaches the ten hand set the way it's supposed to be taught.

That should about do it. Anything else? Please refer back to Item 3 above, and if you know of a place, please let me know about it.

[GeneChing]

I guess Wing Lam doesn't teach straight Shaolin. I kind of assumed he did because he used to be friends with my teacher, and he teaches the ten hand set the way it's supposed to be taught. Wing Lam teaches Bak Sil Lum - the ten hand sets - that's straight Shaolin in my book. It's not Songshan Shaolin, but it's traditional Shaolin. Read the article. It's my FAQ for whenever this issue arises.

No one is calling you stupid yet. We are calling you new, naive and clueless, because your statements are being made without regard to the archived posts. Much of what you're talking about has already been discussed, which is why you are eliciting a negative reaction from our longstanding members. I strongly suggest you do a little more research as you participate.

[MasterKiller]

Yes, it is an incredible coincidence that there are two Tim Gaspers in the world who do martial arts. I know you have the wrong guy for two reasons: first, I found a picture and it's not him, and second, my Tim lived in Perry, Utah, in 1998, and the Tama Martial Arts Center is in Ohio. He also doesn't teach Kempo.

The Tama Martial Arts Center is run by Taningco, a direct student of Gasper.

Our system came from the late Grandmaster Donald Fong from China handed down to Grandmaster Tim Gasper. Grandmaster Tim Gasper bestowed the rank and certification of Professorship 8th (dan) degree Black Belt on Master Taningco in 1998.

Master Taningco is the only student to ever continue his studies under Grandmaster Gasper for over 26 years! Grandmaster Gasper has integrated the arts of Chinese Shaolin Kung-fu, Okinawan Kempo Karate-do, Judo and Jujitsu.

Sensei Taningco achieved his Black belt from Master Gasper in combined arts of Shaolin Kenpo Jujitsu in 1973 at Holloman Air Force Base. Currently 8th Degree Black belt

Hollman Air Force base is in New Mexico.

You live in Ogden, UT. Home to Hill Air Force Base.

My bet is Gasper is ex-Air Force.

Show me the pictures side by side, otherwise I will just assume you have been pwnd.

You are studying a hodepodge Kenpo style.

[Blacktiger]

This is funny :)

I think Im with Masterkiller I think it could be K-Mart Shaolin brand.....

[Ou Ji]

Idiocy reigns supreme!

We all know the only 'authentic' Shaolin Kung Fu comes from Master Sin The.


:D :D :D

[Shaolindynasty]

I just wanted to know where authentic Shaolin can be found around the world.

Ok but based on the requirments you listed before......there is no authentic shaolin:eek:
The styles at the temple are a mixture of styles brought back by folk masters so they don't pass your regulations either.

I think you should definatly do more reading on the subject

try

www.russbo.com

[MasterKiller]

Yay, I win!

[Songshan]

Yay, I win!


LOL....I need to quit working the graveyard shift :D :D

[gaspert]

Hello. My name is Timothy J Gasper. I am writing this post in response to a friend telling me about some misconceptions or misunderstandings about our system. I never read such writings (posts) as they just don't interest me, but some issues need to be cleared up I suppose.
Here is my bio. After this I never again address this issue.
I was born on Feb. 14, 1952 in Wisconsin. I started learning Northern Shaolin from Gandmaster Kwok Seng Fong (AKA Donald Fong) and, yes, he has a Contonese name. His family migrated to northern China for employment purposes when he was a boy. He began his training at Song Shan in his early teens under the tutelage of Shi Su Dian, who later became abbot of the temple. I am not sure if the family adopted a Mandarin name while living in northern China, so I can not address that issue. I can only say what my instructor has told me. After 8 1/2 years of training I was drafted into the military during the Vietnam war. I chose instead to join the Air Force and left in December of 1972. I received my Master's level certificate in November prior to leaving. While in the military I was stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in Alamogordo, New Mexico. This is where I met Master Manuel R Taningco, I call him Manny. I told him he was learning Shaolin from me, but for whatever reason he thought it was Kempo, really Suu Kempo, which is Japanese for Shaolin anyway. He is now owner of TAMA in Dayton, Ohio and still has me listed as teaching him Kempo. Please change that Manny? He has taught me Arnis de Mano, now becoming my teacher. He is like a brother to me and a very good friend. I stand in awe of his accomplishments and what he has done with his path. My path was not to be the same.
While in Vietnam, actually I was stationed in Thailand and made our runs into Vietnam and other locations from there, I was asked to teach Special Forces, hand to hand combat, knife combat, close quarters combat, etc. After the military I was hospitalized due to occurrences which happened in the war, of which still affect me. I moved from Wisconsin to Missouri and eventually started teaching again. I also taught a few members of the police force in Independence for a while. I reentered college again to pick up where I left off before the war. I eventually moved to Utah to complete my education. I was never stationed at Hill Air Force Base.
Since then I have taught Tai Chi to the elderly and have a very small amount of students which I teach Shaolin, Arnis and Muay Thai. I learned Muay Thai while in Nakkom Phnom under Chanphansi Noi. My instructor passed away in 1978 and I have lost track of his son, which whom I trained with, after I joined the service. While in Thailand I was stationed with the 40th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Squadron, the Jolly Green Giants.
I am posting this letter because my friends asked me to. I don't usually pay any heed to such childish writings. We must be careful what we say and do. Our words can have a negative effect on the spirit which creates disharmony. As martial artists I would expect that respect and righteous inquiry should prevail to seek the answers sought. When we write things in such a way as I have read, we destroy a part of the world and diminish from the character and spirit. If someone needs clarification, just ask the right person. Hopefully they will respond in such a way so as to bring light to the issue.
As for "looking for certified Shaolin classes," I am not NOR do I want to be certified. It has become apparent to me that in light of the days in which we live, even the Shaolin have adopted a commercial posture. I am not doing this to make a living at it. I have been teaching to honor my instructor and to keep the system he taught me intact and pure. I only teach a few people and am selective of whom I choose. I am, however, in the process of expanding my teachings to help supplement my income a little, but it is not the mainstay of my life (doing it for the money).
This is all I will ever say about this matter. If anyone is curious as to what is taught in the system, I will entertain letters from this site for 1 month only from this date. Leave me your email address and I will send you our course outline. I will pay for all postage. After 1 month, I will delete my account here. If anyone in my local area is interested in lessons, just leave me your contact info and I will reply, but only for 1 month from today.
Thank you and I hope I have cleared up some misunderstandings.
Oh, yes Mr Ching, Wing Lam does teach Sil Lum (Cantonese for Shaolin) and I have met him. I presented him with an award for his valued services I believe in 1999 or 2000. I am not sure. He is an honorable and nice man and has done well in teaching and promoting the art. Thank you.

Tim Gasper
President: Northern Shaolin Center of Health and Well-Being

[uki]

LOL... the shaolin are where you least expect to find them these days and they aren't in the temples. :)

[David Jamieson]

real shaolin?

is a car a car no matter what?

a 1500 year history means that the model t isn't the same as the new acura mdx.

:)

I hope everyone likes a car analogy.

that said, shaolin has more faces in more places.

It is down the street, it is in the temple, it is spread so far and wide, like humans, it doesn't share the same face always.

but, it is a framework, and that can be recognized with study more so than with gossip. :D

[GeneChing]

Hi Tim,
Welcome to our forum. Please call me Gene. Everyone else does (when they aren't calling me something profane).

I'm glad you think Lam Sifu is nice. So do I. ;)

I'm curious if you have the Chinese characters for Shi Su Dian. He was not an official Abbot, but there were several honorary abbots during the last century. See my article Meet Shaolin's New Leader- Abbot Shi Yongxin (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=153)in our Shaolin Special 2000 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=152). So I'm not contesting Su Dian authenticity. I've just never heard his name. I only need the character for Dian.

As for Kwok Seng Fong's adoption of a Mandarin name, Mandarin and Cantonese have the same written language. It's just pronounced differently. For example, Kwong Wing Lam is Cantonese. In Mandarin, it's Lin Guangrong (note that Lam Sifu adopted the western tradition of placing the surname last when he immigrated to America, so formally in Cantonese his name would be Lam Kwong Wing - also Kwong has been spelled Kwok in some publications) So again, if you provided the characters, that conversion would be simple.

[TenTigers]

Ssu Kempo is not Japanese for Shaolin. Shorin is Japanese for Shaolin. Ji is Japanese for Temple. Ssu is Mandarin for Temple. Ssu Kempo is a combination of Chinese and Japanese dialects.
"Y'all better roll up yer britches. Y'already soiled yer shoes!"

[gaspert]

To Mr. Ching and to Ten Tigers,

Mr. Ching; thank you for your response. I do think highly of Master Lam. I like his dimeanor and his personality and also how he instructs. I don't keep in touch too much anymore with the people I should. Either because I am lazy (maybe more the case) or just because I have so many things going on in my life right now. I need to be more diligent and focused. About Shi Su Dian, you can look up the lineage on the Song Shan temple on the internet. I will get the Chinese characters as soon as I can find them. Please be patient as I am opening up a new school in Salt Lake and have many photo assignments I have to do for the agencies I shoot for. I am also still in school for one last semester. Stay in touch if you like and I will do the same. You can also reach me at my email at gasper_4winds@yahoo. Thank you again and continue doing the good work you always do.
For ten Tigers; Thank you for this correction. I don't know how I got the impression that Suu Kempo was Japanese for Shaolin, but I first heard about it over 30 years ago. I don't want any misconceptions rolling around out there and certainly any coming out of my mouth. So thank you and maybe tell me a bit more about yourself if you have the time and the desire?

Tm Gasper

Shaolin Quan Xue Federation
Northern Shaolin Center of Inner-Light and Peace