Knife fighter, can't help yourself?

[lkfmdc]

Still trying to stirr up crap by mentioning the so called "Bruce Lee thread"... why not discuss it in depth, what it was really about? As it is plenty relevant to your latest ranting and raving...

I responded to a posting by one of the "old school" or "original" Jeet Kune Do, you know, the ones who are "too deadly" for mere sport, with their eye jabs and groin kicks.. you know, the ones who are anti-BJJ

The old school guy put down the UFC and stated that Bruce Lee would have trounced Royce Gracie (interesting situation for you isn't it? I mean you are both a JKD and a GJJ person aren't you?)

I called the above statement absurd.... but if you'd like to debate the topic I'd be happy to. My position was rather simple. Royce trained and trains in an alive setting, with resistance. Bruce Lee for the most part did not. Especially on the ground. Dan Inosanto has said they learned "immobilizing" techniques after takedowns but never ground grappled and never resisted when Bruce Lee was alive

Royce's skills have been proven in the UFC, when it was very limited rules. Bruce Lee's biggest documented fight was against Wong Jack Man....

You are very critical of traditional Chinese martial arts people, with their overly stylized techniques and lack of verifiable fighting records. Isn't Wong just one of those traditional guys? Do we know of any other fights he had before he fought Bruce Lee?

Even if we completely believe Linda Lee's version of how the fight went, what we have is Bruce Lee beating up a clueless traditional guy don't we?

As opposed to Royce who beat dangerous strikers like Gordeau and Smith, and grapplers like Yoshida...

Bruce's other documented matches aren't good indicators of skill, ie his high school boxing victory. Bruce Lee won a high school boxing tournament. Royce took out a rated professional boxer in the first UFC.

Bruce Lee also broke the nose of a karate student. We don't know anything about the guy other than he did Karate. He may have been a white belt in the local YMCA for all we know. Compare that to Royce beating the all Japan Kyokushinkai champion...

If you disagree with me, ie you think that Bruce would have beaten Royce, then let's debate the merits of the arguments rather than you sinking to a single sentence trying to attack my character

[Knifefighter]

Yeah, still sick, so I have one more day of stirring things up here.

You STARTED a thread stating that Lee could not fight.

Of course today's MMA fighters would smoke Bruce. They are light years ahead of where he was at the time.

Bruce's whole system was based on the fact that most kung fu was a waste of time, but he had only managed to get few steps ahead of the "classical mess" by the time he died.

[lkfmdc]

You must have a head cold because you're having delusions :rolleyes:

Yeah, I started a thread, because the original thread was bogged down in a side commentary about hash and women, you know the underground .... but it was a direct response to the original JKD guy's post

But if you want to get technical, yes, I said Bruce Lee's fighting reputation was way over blown. For the reasons I just cited. We have a match with a traditional kung fu guy who had no reputation as a fighter, a match with an unnamed Karate student whose background we know nothing about and a high school level boxing tournament. Did I leave any out?

If Gus Kapros told you he beat another kung fu guy as his evidence of skill, you'd be piling on the insults and laughing at him. Why is Bruce different? And if you want to get technical, there are several versions of what happened in that "fight"

So if you want, let's debate it... I'm not insulting you personally, I'm simply responding in fact to what you wrote about me

[hjt]

Royce's skills have been proven in the UFC, when it was very limited rules. Bruce Lee's biggest documented fight was against Wong Jack Man....

actually ross, royce usually fights under special rules, no time limit rules, he fought sakuraba, wally and yoshida under those rules.

As opposed to Royce who beat dangerous strikers like Gordeau and Smith, and grapplers like Yoshida... ....

when royce fought gordeau and smith, they were not trained in grappling, so once they went to the ground it was a new environment for them, as for yoshida, the match was a draw.

Bruce's other documented matches aren't good indicators of skill, ie his high school boxing victory. Bruce Lee won a high school boxing tournament. Royce took out a rated professional boxer in the first UFC.

rated boxers? art jimmerson, doesnt have the best fight record, also when royce fought in ufc 1, most of these fighters were not aware of ground fighting at all and so they were out of their game. keith hackey gave him a hard time when they fought and the rematch with ken shamrock went to a draw because ken was learning ground fighting.

Bruce Lee also broke the nose of a karate student. We don't know anything about the guy other than he did Karate. He may have been a white belt in the local YMCA for all we know. Compare that to Royce beating the all Japan Kyokushinkai champion....

it is known that when royce took up challenge special rules were made, so this one might have had special rules also.

[Knifefighter]

But if you want to get technical, yes, I said Bruce Lee's fighting reputation was way over blown. For the reasons I just cited. We have a match with a traditional kung fu guy who had no reputation as a fighter, a match with an unnamed Karate student whose background we know nothing about and a high school level boxing tournament. Did I leave any out?

If Gus Kapros told you he beat another kung fu guy as his evidence of skill, you'd be piling on the insults and laughing at him. Why is Bruce different? And if you want to get technical, there are several versions of what happened in that "fight"

I'm not disagreeing with you about Lee's fighting ability. I don't know one way or another, just like I don't have any idea about your master's ability. I trained with the original guys who used to train with him in the back yard. Like your claims about your instructor, they all swore the guy was unbelievable and said they had witnessed him do amazing things and beat the snot out of skilled people. How is that any different than the claims you are making about your teacher?

[lkfmdc]

I'm not disagreeing with you about Lee's fighting ability. I don't know one way or another, just like I don't have any idea about your master's ability. I trained with the original guys who used to train with him in the back yard. Like your claims about your instructor, they all swore the guy was unbelievable and said they had witnessed him do amazing things and beat the snot out of skilled people. How is that any different than the claims you are making about your teacher?

Fine, I can accept that answer completely and with no reservations. Sure, you could ask my why I think CTS was a good fighter and I could give you my opinion and we could weigh it all out... you certainly didn't have to believe me ...

And by the same token, if I posted something ridiculous about how CTS would have beaten Lennox Lewis in under a round, or would have beaten Royce in UFC 1 or some other poopy... I wouldn't think you were defaming the dead by questioning it. I had a specific issue with a way you approached my teacher. I never said he was G'd...

But I wasn't attacking Bruce Lee's spirit by pointing out that the old school JKD guy's post was silly...

that is all

[Knifefighter]

But I wasn't attacking Bruce Lee's spirit by pointing out that the old school JKD guy's post was silly...
And I wasn't attacking your teacher's spirit by pointing out that the greenclown website was silly.

Lee had all kinds of dumb poses and funny noises in his movies that people have poked fun at over the years. No one ever claimed they were attacking his spirit.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I'm not disagreeing with you about Lee's fighting ability. I don't know one way or another, just like I don't have any idea about your master's ability. I trained with the original guys who used to train with him in the back yard. Like your claims about your instructor, they all swore the guy was unbelievable and said they had witnessed him do amazing things and beat the snot out of skilled people. How is that any different than the claims you are making about your teacher?

For my money the most famous case of this is Aikido’s founder Uyeshiba.

An amazing thing. After the Pearl Harbor, hundreds of men gave their eye witness accounts of the battle (which boats were hit first, where, which bomb went off first, which direction the zeros attacked from). Many of them were completely untrue as verified by film of the actual event.

Battle stress is an amazing thing and I think that hero worship and devotion to our family is very closely related in our subconscious though we may be loathe to admit it.

[Judge Pen]

Battle stress is an amazing thing and I think that hero worship and devotion to our family is very closely related in our subconscious though we may be loathe to admit it.

Interesting observation. While we all are subject to place our teachers up on a pedestal somewhat, I never would have attibuted that on the same level of battle stress or subconscious modifications.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Interesting observation. While we all are subject to place our teachers up on a pedestal somewhat, I never would have attibuted that on the same level of battle stress or subconscious modifications.


JP, I apologize for not citing my resource because it's been a while since I read the study in college. but the summary was rooted that in a moments of emotional content whether they be love or panic, the "tape recorder" of the mind is not really recording reality because the brain is cruising in a more "primal" place. and that the information "remembered" has fills in events and details taken from a place in the mind where things are more perfect.

It's like a severe case of "rose-colored glasses".

[David Jamieson]

where ever there is a lack of facts and information, speculationa nd conjecture fill the void.

st00, you are getting into an area that is becoming more widely known and has seen a ressurgence in thought because of the so called "planted memories" that came about in psychological experiments with hypnosis.

It's true that what you see is not always what has happened or is happening.

we will often fill in the blanks so that we can psycho linguistically put it together into a cohesive thought for our own selves and this in turn allows us to move on with our lives.

[Watchman]

JP, I apologize for not citing my resource because it's been a while since I read the study in college. but the summary was rooted that in a moments of emotional content whether they be love or panic, the "tape recorder" of the mind is not really recording reality because the brain is cruising in a more "primal" place. and that the information "remembered" has fills in events and details taken from a place in the mind where things are more perfect.

It's like a severe case of "rose-colored glasses".

Argh! You're going to make me go digging for the source too! I was just discussing this phenomenon with a mentor last week.

This has been a subject explored in research on treating PTSD. What you are describing above happens quite a bit with domestic violence victims. The actual trauma they experience gets blended together with other events and sensory input because of the shock to the nervous system.