CLF Compared to Hung Gar

[rfbrown3]

From someone who knows very little about either system, just curious as to how the two systems compare to one another?

For instance if a person was wanting to study one of these arts and that particular art was not available in their area, but the other one was, could you readily recommend it in place of the other one?

PLEASE, no flame wars between the two systems, just an honest comparison of their similarities and differences.

Thanks,

RFB

[Invisible-fist]

I study both styles. Hung is fierce and powerful. It uses rooted stances and powerful strikes. CLF uses a rapid fire blizkrieg of flowing circular movements.

They are similar enough that one could easily jump from oone to the other.

[Ben Gash]

I study both, and I'd say that you have to be very aware of the differences, or you will be in big trouble. The Jings in Hung Gar are much, much shorter, and the stances are very different. If you saw the KFM Shaolin special before last, there was an article on the differences between longfist stances and Shaolin stances. The same differences exist between Hung and CLF, Hung Gar uses typically longfist stances (such as bow step with the front toe pointing forwards) whereas CLF uses typically Shaolin stances (such as triangle stance with the front toe turned in). Choy Li Fut of course also makes use of fully rotated waist movements, which I have never seen in Hung.
Personally I prefer CLF, but then I've done it for ten years, but tastes differ. If it was a case of only one or the other then I'd say that both systems have an awful lot to offer.

[TenTigers]

Hi Ben,
In our Hung, we turn the front toe in as well, actually both toes face the same direction-turned at 45deg. I have studied some CLF and my main art is obviously Hung, but our line of Hung might be a bit unique as the past masters also did CLF-from what I've heard, Buk Sing CLF. The founder of Buk Sing,Tarm Sam also did Hung-Ga, so at least in our school, it might seem more evident. Of course, me hanging out at the Buk Sing Gwoon, might have influenced my own personal interpetation as well, as well as my own personal journey,but our Hung is played very aggressively, with alot of emphasis on the gwa,cup,sow,been,chop.
I would like to hear from Invisible Fist and BenGash more. You guys say you study both. Are they taught at the same school? If so, how is it taught? What kind of curriculum? I know Buk Som Kong teaches both, and it would be interesting how this is done.

[Ben Gash]

No, I train separately. Because of the way my job is I train at the Hung school because it would mean that otherwise some weeks I'd have no Fu :(
I do Lai Ng Sam lineage Hung Gar Kuen, you can see the syllabus at www.mousavi.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk or www.hunggakuen.com

[Infrazael]

Do you guys actively try to hybridize the two, or do you let it come naturally?

I've been told that trying to combine Hung and CLF is quite hard, since the jing is so different.

[Ben Gash]

As I said, I concentrate very hard on keeping them separate.

[Invisible-fist]

We study them together. I don't see a problem with separating them...they are two different ways of fighting. Hung uses strong rooted strikes, and CLF uses circular whipping strikes. You can use both and vary your game.

I beleive the reason they are taught together is because Sifu considers Hung very difficult to learn...I think he thinks that there is really no point until you have your stances down. So we learn Lau Gar Kuen, which is a basic Hung form, first. Then we study CLF, which sifu considers easy to learn, and gives the students accomplishment while they develop their fundementals. The Hung pillars aren't taught until about a year of study.

I think we are primarily a Hung school, with CLF being supplementary teaching, but I like the CLF we learn a lot.

[Fu-Pow]

We study them together. I don't see a problem with separating them...they are two different ways of fighting. Hung uses strong rooted strikes, and CLF uses circular whipping strikes. You can use both and vary your game.

I beleive the reason they are taught together is because Sifu considers Hung very difficult to learn...I think he thinks that there is really no point until you have your stances down. So we learn Lau Gar Kuen, which is a basic Hung form, first. Then we study CLF, which sifu considers easy to learn, and gives the students accomplishment while they develop their fundementals. The Hung pillars aren't taught until about a year of study.

I think we are primarily a Hung school, with CLF being supplementary teaching, but I like the CLF we learn a lot.

Who is your teacher?

[Ben Gash]

I'd say that CLF is every bit as grounded as Hung, it's just expressed differently. I certainly wouldn't say CLF is easier to learn :eek:
Which forms do you do?

[Invisible-fist]

The CLF forms we do are:



Siu mui Fah

Tiger Tail broadsword

Ching nin kuen (Young man fist)...I'm not sure if this is CLF or not, do you know?

Sup Ji Kau Da Kuen


This is the curriculum in order:

Nivel I

1. Lau Gar Kuen.............................................. ...................Lau family fist form

2. Siu Mui Fah Kuen.............................................. .........Plum flowers fist form

3. Siu Mui Fah Kuen doy dar............................Plum flowers sparring fist form

4. Ching Nin Kuen.............................................. ..............Young man fist form

5. Ching Nin Kuen doy dar..................................Young man sparring fist form

6. Fu Mei Dan Dou............................................... ...Tiger tail broadsword form
Nivel II

7. Sam Yin Kuen.............................................. ...................3 Animals fist form

8. Sup Ji Kau Da Kuen.............................................. ..........Detaining fist form

9. Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen...................................Temting the Tiger fist form

10. Hung Jeh Kwun.............................................. .......Monkey King Staff form

11. Fu Hok Sheong Yin Kuen.......................................Tiger & Crane fist form

12. Fu Hok Sheong Yin Kuen doy dar............Tiger & Crane sparring fist form
Nivel III

13. Fo Chin Kuen........................................Prayin g Mantis & Monkey fist form

14. Hung Jeh Kwun doy dar...........................Monkey King sparring staff form

15. Lahn Moon Dai Chai Dou............................................... ....Kwan Dou form

16. Hung Sao Fook Sheong Dou.........Empty hands vs. double daggers form

17. Mui Fah Sup Sam Cheong...................................Plum flowers spear form

18. Dai Pah............................................... ............................... Tiger fork form

[CLFNole]

From the sound of your ciriculum are you associated with Buk Sam Kong's lineage?

[kup choi]

I myself train in CLF, but have been taught Gung Gee Fook Fu. To me, you do not have to try and keep them seperate, each form gives you different qualities and skills no matter of what style.
Just practice them as much as you can.

[Fu-Pow]

Well, even though you chose to ignore my question I can tell that you learn from a student of Bak Sam Kong. I know because I was learning that exact same curriculum my first year of kung fu training. I made it up to the fu mei dahn do when I moved back to sea-town.

Those CLF sets come from Lee Koon Hung. Bak Sam Kong was a student of Lee Koon Hung for a time. They've been modified quite abit though from the original sets.

So who could it be? Eddie Lane? Donald Hamby? Seng Au? Vernon Rieta? Eric Lee?
Those are the ones I know but I'm sure Bak Saam Kong has many more students.




The CLF forms we do are:



Siu mui Fah

Tiger Tail broadsword

Ching nin kuen (Young man fist)...I'm not sure if this is CLF or not, do you know?

Sup Ji Kau Da Kuen


This is the curriculum in order:

Nivel I

1. Lau Gar Kuen.............................................. ...................Lau family fist form

2. Siu Mui Fah Kuen.............................................. .........Plum flowers fist form

3. Siu Mui Fah Kuen doy dar............................Plum flowers sparring fist form

4. Ching Nin Kuen.............................................. ..............Young man fist form

5. Ching Nin Kuen doy dar..................................Young man sparring fist form

6. Fu Mei Dan Dou............................................... ...Tiger tail broadsword form
Nivel II

7. Sam Yin Kuen.............................................. ...................3 Animals fist form

8. Sup Ji Kau Da Kuen.............................................. ..........Detaining fist form

9. Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen...................................Temting the Tiger fist form

10. Hung Jeh Kwun.............................................. .......Monkey King Staff form

11. Fu Hok Sheong Yin Kuen.......................................Tiger & Crane fist form

12. Fu Hok Sheong Yin Kuen doy dar............Tiger & Crane sparring fist form
Nivel III

13. Fo Chin Kuen........................................Prayin g Mantis & Monkey fist form

14. Hung Jeh Kwun doy dar...........................Monkey King sparring staff form

15. Lahn Moon Dai Chai Dou............................................... ....Kwan Dou form

16. Hung Sao Fook Sheong Dou.........Empty hands vs. double daggers form

17. Mui Fah Sup Sam Cheong...................................Plum flowers spear form

18. Dai Pah............................................... ............................... Tiger fork form

[hasayfu]

The Jings in Hung Gar are much, much shorter, and the stances are very different... Hung Gar uses typically longfist stances (such as bow step with the front toe pointing forwards) whereas CLF uses typically Shaolin stances (such as triangle stance with the front toe turned in). Choy Li Fut of course also makes use of fully rotated waist movements, which I have never seen in Hung.
Personally I prefer CLF, but then I've done it for ten years, but tastes differ. If it was a case of only one or the other then I'd say that both systems have an awful lot to offer.

Don't know much about CLF but to confirm Ten Tigers, mainstream Hung Gar uses what Ben calls shaolin stances. It is southern shaolin afterall.

HG does use mainly shorter power but has its share of long movements too.

The one difference I do see is CLF much larger rotation of the waist as Ben says. HG has a more structurally reserved approach.

I would suggest you pick one or the other though. Unless your sifu has integrated both (because he can knows the entirety of both systems and can pick the pieces that don't conflict) it's hard for a beginner to do it.

[Infrazael]

How is Hung Gar more difficult to learn than CLF?

[Lohanhero]

not all HG is small waist power and short movements, considering the taming tiger form is full of jumps and kicks, it is a collection of different arts and building arts of nam shaolin, CLF is a collection of shaolin arts also, how would it be all that different? apart from different root forms, im talking about expression.

[Eddie]

seng au is now part iof the chan family CLF.
he visited SA about 8 years or so ago.