CR@P I did it AGAIN!!!

[Pork Chop]

Okay so I'm coming off a 2 week layoff due to vacation and 2 kinds of sick: head & chest cold and stomach problems.
Worked out earlier this afternoon and really got burnt.
Against better judgement I headed up to BXF for my night time workout.

Everyone wanted to spar so I offered to jump in and give people work.
It's me, 42 year old slick bill, and a kid named collin.
bill and collin are within 20 or 30 pounds of each other, I'm the big boy.
Everyone's relatively similar height, bill being shortest at like 5'9, collin maybe being tallest at somewhere between 5'10 and 6 foot.

Sparring's going great; we're doing round-robin, taking turns being post (4 rounds straight).
I go 4 (2 minute) rounds straight, bill makes 4 straight by staying in against collin, and I jump back in to make sure collin gets his turn on post.

First round against collin, he gets a bloody nose, but i'm not really trying to nail him. Still seems mostly amicable. Bill and I have a decent, although somewhat sloppy couple rounds.

Last round of sparring, 8th round of the evening, my 6th, something goes wrong.

Not sure why but collin starts trying to swarm me. He's like 130 and pretty quick & lanky. He really likes throwing bombs on me, he's been doing it all night, but I haven't really reacted up to this point. then he starts trying to swarm me, pouncing on me with huge flurries of bombs- I'm big and slow so i can't really get out of there. I do my best to shield but he keeps coming. I wait for a slight break in the combo and put in a little aggression to keep him off me. I also stop letting him turn around and walk away the rest of the round- thinking if he's not going to let up on me (activity wise, not power wise), then I'm not going to let up on him (again, just pure staying busy).

Now I'm not going to lie, a few of my punches landed kinda hard; though not all of it was my fault. he uses a lot of head movement- but he uses a lot of bad head movement, slamming right into punches. He ducked into an uppercut that i swear probably should've dropped him - i was just swinging to swing, didn't think it had a prayer of landing.

Anyway, once this stuff starts happening (well, everything but the uppercut, which I wasn't blamed for surprisingly) people start yelling at me to ease off the kid.

So I stop punching for about 30 seconds and for the last minute of the round I completely drop my hands and work on defense.

For me it wasn't a temper thing, it was a pressure thing.
The only way I know how to respond to a lot of pressure is to find a break in the pressure and counter with a little pressure of my own.

Still, I'm basically the a-hole of this scenario.
how the heck do i keep this garbage from happening?
i mean, i felt like i did everything i could to take it easy on the kid, aside from shelling up instead of returning some pressure.

What am I doing wrong?
Am I doomed to be an a-hole the rest of my life?

I think the answer is to work with bigger guys, who understand that they're going to get a little if they give a little, but I haven't had the opportunity to work with a lot of big guys lately.

There are 2 big guys at BXF at the moment and another few that are at least a reasonable size (180+); but I just haven't been able to work with any of them.
It's almost to a ridiculous extent- one guy and i have been trying to work since jan or feb, but it's either one of us not there, or one's showin up after the other's finishing up.

Even in virginia, for a time there were a bunch of big guys on saturdays but 3 of 'em kinda stopped comin.

I really don't think I have a ton of power; especially not for a guy my size, and especially not when I'm pulling my shots so much.

Anybody got any advice? I'm really tired of being the a-hole.

[TenTigers]

It;s kinda like bully mentality. Not you, the kid. Often times the smaller guy knows you're going to ease up on him, so he opens up on you, because there are no consequences for his actions. You're not the azole, he is. He knew **** well what he was doing, and it is right that he picks up the tab for it. Besides, what you did was not malicious, you simply matched his pace. No foul in my book.

[Pork Chop]

I probably should've mentioned that collin's a young guy- a young guy with an extreme aptitude for boxing, but he hasn't been doing it very long, like 6 months. So part of the reason i caught so much flack was coz as the more experienced guy, I should be able to handle the situation better.

It's the third time in like the last 6 months that a lighter guy's dropped some good shots on me, given me a lot of pressure, and i've reacted by applying pressure right back. I've sparred with collin a lot before this incident (though i'm not sure he wants to ever again) and one of the other guys I've worked with a lot more after we had our exchange with no problems.

[SimonM]

Not sure why but collin starts trying to swarm me. He's like 130 and pretty quick & lanky. He really likes throwing bombs on me, he's been doing it all night, but I haven't really reacted up to this point. then he starts trying to swarm me, pouncing on me with huge flurries of bombs- I'm big and slow so i can't really get out of there. I do my best to shield but he keeps coming. I wait for a slight break in the combo and put in a little aggression to keep him off me. I also stop letting him turn around and walk away the rest of the round- thinking if he's not going to let up on me (activity wise, not power wise), then I'm not going to let up on him (again, just pure staying busy).

Now I'm not going to lie, a few of my punches landed kinda hard; though not all of it was my fault. he uses a lot of head movement- but he uses a lot of bad head movement, slamming right into punches. He ducked into an uppercut that i swear probably should've dropped him - i was just swinging to swing, didn't think it had a prayer of landing.




I've been in your position before.

I'm a big guy. I'm over 6 feet tall, I'm not weak in the slightest but I am a bit on the fat size. Hell trying to win the battle of the bulge was one of the main reasons I started doing Gong Fu and although I've lost a hell of a lot of weight I'm still not winning any hard body awards.

I also like to spar a lot.

I prefer sparring with advanced people. The more skilled they are the happier I am. This is partially because I am slower than a lot of these skinny little whippersnappers. Thing is that a lot of these same skinny teenagers don't have the muscle mass to land a telling blow on me. Sure, they will hit, but not hard enough to do squat - especially with those bloody big 16 ouncers on their hands.

However never let the complete inability to effectively deliver a powerful stike deter you from thinking you are 133t, especially when you are 16 years old and much more co-ordinated than you were two months ago when you started.

So I will spar with the kids but generally will use my reach and just keep them at a distance with jabs and front kicks.

Things get a bit different playing with the advanced students. Most of them ARE faster than me and my reach doesn't quite make up for their speed. I'd rather be challenged; I think the best way to improve is to push yourself to your absolute limits. However about the only way for me to keep from having my ass handed to me is upping my power somewhat. I can hit very hard. Being tall and fat I have legs like treetrunks and considerable ability to "throw my weight around" so to speak. I have given sparring partners bloody noses before (and felt terrible about it) and I have knocked people off their feet with body shots.

Like you this is not a temper thing. I have meticulous control over my temper in a match. I LOVE to spar and I am not afraid of a bit of pain so I don't tend to get angry during a fight and if I am ****ed with someone I'll pick another person to punch and kick.

I think what I am trying to say is that if a person is trying to school you in the ring because they are faster or because they are ****ed over a bloodied nose or whatever, well, it's not being a bully to use the skills you do have to level the playing field again. He wanted to drop bombs on you, you just returned the favour. Shake his hand after the match and (if he's of legal age) buy him a beer sometime. :D

[octagonal raven]

I would say don't feel bad. If the guy is coming at you that hard, what are your options? Maybe he needs to learn a little respect, for your size, power, etc. you can't let him run you over.

[Royal Dragon]

Tell everyone you don't want to cheat im by going easy, and don't worry about it.

[Ou Ji]

I think a lot of it is perception. A friend of mine has the same problem. He's big with thick arms and when he goes light he still lands hard. Just the weight of his arms will thump ya. He got disqualified every time he tried to point fight.

I'm the opposite. Skinny and don't weigh much so when I go light you can hardly tell I'm fighting. I can go hard against him while he's going light and it still looks like he's knocking me around.

I had a souped '69 Camaro years ago. When one of my classmates saw it he said it looked like it was going 40 mph just sitting in the parking lot.

Unfortunately for you I don't think it will ever change. You will always look like you're bullying a smaller just because of your size. I would work mostly defense with smaller guys unless they agree before hand to let you lean on them.

[TonyM.]

You're not an A hole. The kid has to learn to lift his leg if he wants to p with the big dogs.

[Ben Gash]

Don't spar with FNGs is my advice. In my experience they all feel they've got something to prove and really try to hurt you (No other black belt has ever pushed me over and punched me in the head while I'm down :mad: ). You can't win sparring with noobs, and often you look bad either way :(

[TenTigers]

amen to that

[Mel]

It sounds like he had it coming to him....and it doesn't sound like you were really all that bad to him! It's a "lose-lose" situation, I guess. Don't worry about it though. Maybe he'll think twice next time he tries to pull that again.... Look at it this way: you did him a favor. ;)

[SimonM]

Looks like the concensus is that this incedent doesn't make you a jerk so don't beat yourself up over it too much. ;)

[Pork Chop]

I appreciate all the responses.
I've been trying for so long to be able to go easy on the smaller, newer guys and I'm just tired of feeling bad about it. I think from now on I'm just gonna make myself a sacrificial lamb for the biggest, best guys I can find. hehe

[SimonM]

I appreciate all the responses.
I've been trying for so long to be able to go easy on the smaller, newer guys and I'm just tired of feeling bad about it. I think from now on I'm just gonna make myself a sacrificial lamb for the biggest, best guys I can find. hehe


That's right, don't beat yourself up over this. Let somebody else do it. ;)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

maybe next time put the pressure on him for a little while and then ease off a bit. make it clear that your returning the pressure ... you set the pace bud ... and go from there.

maybe you weren't scolded for returning the pressure but for doing so longer than you needed to prove your point?

[David Jamieson]

use grabs , holds and locks, take him down and press him to the mat.

then pinch his fat rolls till he starts to cry a bit.

then whisper in his ear that you love him and that if he really wants to go hard you will knock him to next sunday.

then let him up and return to practice with a new understanding! :D

just a suggestion.

[Oso]

doesn't sound like you did anything wrong to me.

if you weren't in the role of instructor and were just sparring around w/ other members of the club then your only obligation would seem to be not damaging him permanently.

if you didn't break any house rules and he amped it up and you matched and he couldn't handle that then that was his bad.



one thing I've noticed is that the bigger you are the harder it is to control a situation with a smaller opponent w/o damaging them. If you are going at 50% then they need to go at some higher % relative to their size to match you. Usually not a problem till they start going 100% then you have to figure out whether that means 60, 70, 80 or whatever. Not impossible but if they suddenly shift to high gear, and you can see when they do, you CAN'T usually shift to high gear as well because if you land then you are suddenly damaging them.

sounds like maybe what happened and something that's happened to me before (me being the big guy usually)

you know, it's also skill relative as well...

back in 2003 when i was training jujitsu a couple times a week there were 3 other big guys (290, 260 and 210) The 260 had about 3 years in but the other two were complete nubes except for some karate/tkd stuff as kids. They were adult males 30+, cops and SWAT cops at that. All three of them would complain about me hitting to hard when I was definitely not punching or kicking them harder than allowed by the dojo.

guess that would be accuracy...

so, PC, joke 'em if they can't take a fvck :)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

whats wrong with people. im small and i know better than to **** off the big guy im sparring or im gonna pay for it.

and i've paid for it ... i didnt cry and no one at the qwoon would have expected otherwise.

i just remember seeing this shot ... this awesome shot on this ape i was sparring ... and i knew if i drilled him he'd go realling back and id feel like a tough guy. so i took my shot and this huge ****er went back on his heals loosing almost 3 steps .... the guy was suprised ... then he smiled ... then i got whomped on. these things happen

[Pork Chop]

what goes around tends to come around.
Sparred a 190 guy today and he ran over me with takedowns- something i really haven't sparred with in like a year, maybe longer.
he caught one of my kicks right off the bat and took me down.
was doing okay after that, then bjj coach told me to work my takedowns.
went for a single and it went bad.
caught my face on the ropes on another one of his takedowns.
bjj coach had us work with him in my guard, but he wouldn't let me close it to even start the drill, so i defended his punches a bit then kicked him off me.
Once I backed him up a bit i stood up and i think next thing that happened was him putting a "hit" on me- football style. I fell back into the ropes kinda hard.
I think we traded a little more after that, I dunno.
Think maybe I got in a few good punches.
Told the coach i was gonna go easy coz we didn't know each other; once i realized he wasn't going easy, i didn't adjust well.
kept trying to kick, but was going easy, so i didn't put anything on it.
I'll do better next time.
If I'd known we were going to go that hard in the first place I woulda used my combos, no kicks till after landing some punches, and clinching for the takedown- but it just wouldn't come out when i tried to transition from going light.
Went back to using my huge q-tip gloves for this one as well; not a good idea against the gym's 12-ounce-gloves-labled-16s either.

At least it's another big guy to work with, at least i got some more experience, and at least I wasn't b!+ching that he was going too hard.
Still hate that I was that sloppy though.

[SimonM]

Do you mean those lovely dense 16 ouncers that don't really pad your punches at all, just make your hands each 1 lb heavier?

I love those!

[Pork Chop]

yah these are kinda bag gloves from balazs boxing- 16 ounces technically; but no way that much in reality.
anyway, i wore my 16s today, the ultimate classics from ringside; which, on the flipside, feel hyooooge. I really can't do anything in those gloves.

I sparred a guy today, another guy i didn't know too well.
We went boxing, he was real skinny, maybe 160, but about as tall as me.
I was feeling particularly burnt tonite and i was still feeling bad about what happened this weekend, so i went as easy as I could and really did my best not to light the dude up.
In the first round I did alright, but was having a hard time keeping my wind - coz of the cold and comin off the layoff.
In the second round I hit him once and he lost his cool so i really tried to ease up.
He opened a real small cut on my upper lip, and I said he was hitting kinda hard.
he's like "I'm going soft, you're just not moving fast, so i don't expect to actually hit you"; right before he winds up on a huge body shot that he grunts to throw.
we circle around and he's still trying to take my head off.
My defense stunk, and my legs got stuck in mud in the second round- like I said, my wind wasn't normal.
I couldn't do anything in the way of combos with those stupid Ultimate classics.
I wasn't shelling up.
He couldn't really hurt me; so i guess i was alright- nobody else said it looked half as bad as I felt it looked- i did manage to land quite a few shots on him.
I don't care if he said he wasn't going hard, you don't grunt and wind up that much to throw pattycake shots.

i compared my gloves with his afterwards and my ringsides have about 3 times the padding as the balazs. Those ultimate classics are so front heavy, any slight tap and your shot's way off, I can't combo with them for anything. I don't think I'm gonna wear 'em anymore. Honestly, I'm starting to think oversized gloves just make you sloppy. My boxing's a lot cleaner with my twins 14s. I've seen other 16s that weren't near as bulky, those thinks are practically 20s.

[SimonM]

Yeah, I can't stand those big, old-style gloves. It's like fighting wearing jiant q-tips. ;) Stick with the ballaz 16s, and next time you face one of those "I'm punching lightly, honest!" type guys who you can just tell is cranking out the power hit'em in the middle of the chest or in the gut with those puppies and when they get their breath back say "I'm punching lightly, honest!".

[Oso]

dude, sounds like a bunch of ego floating around that place.

[Pork Chop]

It's a boxin gym, what can yah expect? hehe

If I were quicker and could get outta the way better, I think I wouldn't be having most of these problems (then again, hard to get out of the way of a guy who's way faster than you). I don't think I been shielding at all.

I don't like getting hit with bag gloves, but as long as my gloves ain't given me any problems & I can defend myself, it's not that huge an issue.

I feel good that at least the last 2 sparring sessions I made up for not going light with that one guy.

Being sick probably had a lot more to do with yesterday than I originally thought. I couldn't get outta bed today- missed work and skipped the gym.

I went ahead and ordered some Reyes 16s. They ain't Reyes 14s (with which I'd probably be knockin fooz out) and they ain't the balazs bag gloves, but at least they should be better than the ringsides.

Next I gotta work on fixing my defense....again...

O and I think I got a new policy:
I'll give yah one...
I'll go light on yah for one sparring session and I'll note wheter or not you try to knock me out...
The next time we meet if you've got case history and you try to jump on me again, i'm probly going to try to drop yah; of course i'll try to avoid sparring the guys I feel that way about...

[Oso]

so...you saying that the 'egoless' attittude supposedly attributed soley to the 'combat' sports doesn't extend to boxers?


not giving you a hard time, btw, that's just what the situation has made me think of.

btw, I'll be in Richmond the weekend of Oct. 8. My mom's 60th so I absolutely don't have time to drive to MD but I do know a couple of parks in Richmond that have fountains....all I have is some JKD gloves though.... ;)

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

maybe you guys know:

how can a transexual get pregnant and deliver a baby?

my younger brother's bio-bro had an accident and chose to become a girl. now she has delivered a child. what gives? or rather How? some strange melons in roanoke....

[Pork Chop]

YZDZ

dood that's some springer **** right there.


Oso

I'll be in Fairfax/herndon/chantilly area most of the weekend, sorry.
BTW- I'll probably have to miss the Ralek thing, there's mma sparring at bxf saturday night and if i'm feeling up to it i may go rematch the 190 guy from tuesday.

Okay ego in combat sports is funny.
Each one has their own type of ego.

With boxers you get the ego of the pro athelete.
A lot of normal gym rats are pretty cool, but there are certain guys that buy into the whole athlete eliteism- like TO and Deion Sanders.
Pro boxers have been responsible for some of the biggest exhibitions of ego in tv history hehe.
Even that little guy who busted on me yesterday was doing a little shimmy dance while we were sparring; and from what I know of him, he's one of the quiet ones.

MMA and kickboxers tend to be more team-oriented instead of individualistic.
It extends into the attitude and even the training.
BJJ even has a popular motto of "leave your ego at the door".
Though I gotta be honest, the kickboxers I've met have been the coolest thus far.
No offense to MMA guys; i've just been preached to by more MMA guys than I have kickboxers and I've noticed in certain MMA camps there's a really clique-ish vibe that reminds me too much of football players from when I was back in high school.

I'm not saying I have any problems with anybody, this is just the vibe I get from mma gyms, where as the vibe I've gotten from muay thai and san shou gyms has been a lot more friendly. Of course that's not to say I haven't met some totally awesome MMA guys and boxers.

[Ben Gash]

I always wear 12oz gloves for kickboxing and San Shou. I've got a pair of 16oz ones, but after 1 session I never wore them for sparring again. Great for building strength and power, rubbish for hitting people. I wear them for drills when I feel I'm losing power.
Of course for kung fu and groundwork I wear MMA gloves. A bit of an aside, but aren't they simply the best invention for Kung Fu? How come we didn't develop them?
My policy is usually: hit me hard once, I'll let it slide, hit me hard twice and I'll return the favour.

[Oso]

dang it, we coulda created some new profiles and done some funny ****...and possibly get arrested by the cops for fighting in the govorners front yard.

ego is funny. i was poking fun at the way TMA gets ragged (justifiably so, i agree) a lot for the ego thing.

the two boxers I've met were both pretty cool though I only sparred w/ one.
he was super nice because he coulda wiped the floor with me and didn't. :)

[SimonM]

I always wear 12oz gloves for kickboxing and San Shou.

I used to use 12 oz gloves for sparring. However even with me reining the power way back there were still some complaints that I hit too hard and Master Chau told me to upgrade to 16 oz gloves. Funny thing is that I still hit just as hard with the 16 ouncers but people had less to complain about. It just became that I usually only sparred the really high-level students (and sometimes, yes, got owned) or played a REALLY defensive game against the newbies.

[Becca]

Hey Pork Chop, I wouldn't worry about it. I am a very small person, and Have, on occasion, stepped it up with bigger people and then gotten my bum handed to me for it. When I was younger, I used to get my nose out of joint over it. As an adult, I realize it's my own fault when that happens. I actually had a lovely set of black eyes over Christmas due to my stupidity of stepping up the speed of a fight with a guy I know could hit like an anvil and then not blocking properly. :o It took me days to convince him I was not in the slightest bit mad at him, but with myself... :rolleyes:

The kid just needs to grow up or quit fighting. Period. And there is nothing you can do to help him grow up, so you might want to avoid free-sparring with him for a few years. :)

[Pork Chop]

I dunno, at least my karma should be realigned. I put myself up there to get beat on by 2 guys I could've easily gone harder with and didn't. So I think I paid my dues.

My new gloves are comin soon can't wait. :)

Did some mitt work with the big puffy ones today- dang near hurt myself and my training partner- the striking surface is so puffy and wobbly that it was folding as the mitts would slightly angle and then ricochet into my mitt holder. Could never tell where the appropriate striking surface would be; was like punching with mush. Actually not too dissimilar to punching with hulk hands- those green foam things that make the sound and have an awkward knuckle shape.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

I'll be in Fairfax/herndon/chantilly area most of the weekend, sorry.


so you're a nurse at fairfax hospital and residing in the 28-50-fairfax expressway corridor?

where do you work out? the goju clinic in sterling where gemma works out?
i see you mentioned bxf: the one off king street in arlington near the W&OD trail head?

[Pork Chop]

nah my girl's a nurse and we live in baltimore.
bxf is in millersville, maryland off of benfield blvd.
used to go by Lost Disciple, Jowbacca, and Bmore Banga on this site; but pork chop's my nickname so i finally got it changed to that.
I'm just in virginia to train with the one spirit martial arts/cobra fight team guys, including my coach, khun kao charuad from this forum.

there's a bxf in arlington?