sun style tai chi

[PlasticSquirrel]

i was just wondering if anyone knew much about sun lu tang's style of tai chi.

it's really hard to find out much about it, other than it uses high postures with narrow steps and round arm movements. also, it uses bagua footwork and xing-yi kicking.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

Plastic squirrel wrote:

i was just wondering if anyone knew much about sun lu tang's style of tai chi.
it's really hard to find out much about it, other than it uses high postures with narrow steps and round arm movements. also, it uses bagua footwork and xing-yi kicking.

-I wouldnt say it uses much any bagua or hsingyi but more concepts. there is the san ti posture and some bagua pivot type stepping. the sun taiji is alo called active stepping taiji and has a step up with the pushing. This is seen in another style of taiji from Yongnian (home of Yang and Hao style)called Guang Ping style. It is not part of hao style that sun learned from hao Wei Zhen. I dont think it uses hsingyi kicking, it has jump kick like guang ping style and chen style. I have sen the sun style taiji done really fast, it was quite unusual.

[GLW]

Been doing it for years... It is very different and interesting.

Also called Kai He Huo Bu Taijiquan (Open Close, Fast step....) due to the quickness of the steping and the use of the Open/Close technique and its unique Single Whip.

So...what was your question idea....?

[OldFatBaldGuy]

I read someplace (I'm old - I don't remember where!) that to completely understand Sun style TCC, you first needed to have studied Sun's xing yi and bagua.

What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks.

Respectfully,
OldFatBaldGuy

[Esteban]

Hi,

well, I think someone who's studied Sun's bagua and xingyi will say that it definitely helps to have learned them if you want to use Sun's tjq. If you're primarily interested in health, then it isn't necessary to know the other arts. However, it would still help if you learned from someone who was familiar with all three. BTW, I don't believe in the idea that it's necessary to master each of the arts to be proficient. If you're not willing to invest years of study, without the hope of mastery, then it's unlikely you'll master it anyway. Anyway, I think it does help to understand Xingyi stepping, particularly Sun's system. But, the stepping in Sun's tjq is not like his Xingyi stepping. Oh, there are a few similariites, but not in general. However, the principles are similar. Knowing Sun's bagua would probably help, too. But, imho, it's not about knowing the forms/animals; it's about learning the bagua method of application. That's always going to be complicated to learn. In Sun's book on bagua, the people who wrote the introductions say it took them 20-30 years to begin to understand. If you read the text, you'll see why. However, Sun Lutang always emphasized "practice" as the means to understanding. So, that's where I'm gonna go now.

Respects,
Esteban

[PlasticSquirrel]

"I have seen the sun style taiji done really fast, it was quite unusual."

why is it unusual? unusual in a bad weird way or unusual in a good weird way? any details you guys can give me would be great.

one thing that i forgot to ask is this: i've heard that bagua has footwork that allows you to move around your opponent very quickly. i've also heard that the sun style uses the principles of bagua footwork. does sun style have the quick and agile footwork that allows you to circle around your opponent?

thanks :)
:) :) :) :) :) :( :) :)

[GLW]

There are some very subtle places where Sun Style is more like Xing Yi...others where it is more like Bagua and still more where it is like Wu style with more movement and animation.

I can see where a person with no background in any other stye would have trouble with it if they started with Sun and did not know Bagua Xing Yi or any other style.

From my experience, The Xing Yi parts are the hardest to get if you do not do Xing yi. Not impossible but harder. There seems to be more of an affinity between the melding of the Bagua flavorings to the Wu style Taijiquan.

The places where Xing Yi comes out are alos more obvious than those for Bagua. For example, the instances where you do the twisting step forward into a Pi Quan type of strike...or the San Ti stances ...

However, to get it down, you really need to do Taijiquan as well.

I have a classmate who learned it at the same time I did. I am familiar with Bagua but not too familiar with Xing yi. I also focus a lot on Taijiquan. Now, after several years, when you see us do it together, I have more twisting and coiling in moves, more subtleness and he has more driving linear power and is more direct. This is as I would expect because he does Xing Yi while I do the evasion and twsting types of arts....

An interesting note...Sun style has no hooking hand.

Also... I think one of the hardest things for me to get at first was the spirit. It is more lively and you have to deliberately let that spirit come out when doing it as opposed to showing a calm manner with say Yang style....and still maintain that Taijiquan air.

fun...

[Esteban]

"one thing that i forgot to ask is this: i've heard that bagua has footwork that allows you to move around your opponent very quickly. i've also heard that the sun style uses the principles of bagua footwork. does sun style have the quick and agile footwork that allows you to circle around your opponent?"

Good question, and I'll go out on a limb and say that Sun tjq uses no more nor less of the evasive strategy than any other form of tjq. So, the answer is yes and no. For example, most tjq styles (I think) have the movement "fair lady threads shuttles." The (4) movements, taken as a whole (at least two 180 degree turns) can be seen as "evasive" and can be used to get behind one opponent or to deal with more than one. But, in general, Sun tjq would use tjq strategy. Though, of course, it's possible to adapt any of the arts to any strategy, in practice.

Respects,
Esteban