View Full Version : Bagua and the I-Ching
01-10-2001, 06:56 PM
The idea of this thread is not to say that studying books and sitting in a library will make you a better fighter. There'sno substitute to simply training. However, I feel that such studies can add to your training, and definately add to the experience of practising an art.
I felt I needed to say that, to avoid the potential flame wars. :)
So, I have heard it said a few times on the board by a few people that they understand the connections between the gua and Baguazhang. I would be very interested in hearing about that.
What are the practical implications, how can you use the knowledge to further your training, etc?
01-10-2001, 07:12 PM
As I said before, and this may only be my interpretation, but the I-ching is for fortune telling and the Tao Te Ching for spiritual enrichment. That being said, there is tremendous value in understanding the gua as it can be seen throughout the training in Ba Gua Zhang. It is seen in ba gua chi kung as you face each direction, north, northeast, northwest, south, southeast, southwest, east, west and circle for the specific exercises. In post training the posts are at these same directions. In forms you follow these directions. In techniques the applications vary depending on these directions. When circle walking, if your circle is 8 steps the foot touches these directions. It is important to understand the relationship between the elements and so forth ie: fire and water but I do not think it is so important to relate it to the tao. However, the text in the Tao Te Ching makes interesting reading and can help shape your philosophy and strategy. It can give you an interesting approach as to what is important in training, fighting, and dealing with many other situations of growth and development.
01-10-2001, 08:19 PM
i went to a seminar given by BK Frantzis on the I-Ching's connection to bagua. - it was kind of interesting...
if i understood correctly, the explanation he gave was that each trigram is a symbol of a certain type of manifestation of energy.
e.g. 'kun' - heaven: has the feeling of infinite expansion. - and basically, you have to get a feeling for manifesting this type of energy... so, he gave us some visualizations to do while walking the circle in the single palm change... did this for about 20 mins... he said basically, one could/should practice this until one can actually manifest this energy. (which could take years.)
then he moved on to the next trigram.... which manifests a very 'heavy' type of feeling... gave visualizations, and again walked a circle in doing the single palm change, for about 20 mins...
etc. for all 8 energies... any energy can be manifested in any palm change... can also use 2 energies simultaneously...
but, basically, this takes about a lifetime of practice... and if you are REALLY lucky, you may be able to learn to manifest all 8 energies.
(i can't recall for certain; but i don't believe he claimed to be able to do all 8.)
01-10-2001, 08:35 PM
MaFuYee - So, what was your opinion of BK Frantzis in person? As good as he sounds in his books? Was this in CA?
01-11-2001, 12:26 AM
from my short contact with him, all i can say is:
- he seems to be a very intelligent person. (but i already got that from his books.)
- i like his philosophy on life.
i assume you were wondering about his fighting skills(?)
we really did nothing, 'hands on'.
so all i can base my judgement on is what i have seen in books, magazines, and videos.
* i don't particularly like what i saw... but, there's more to life than just fighting.
but, i do think he has impeccable form.
(and no it wasn't in CA. - east coast.)
01-11-2001, 09:09 AM
I noticed your comment about my research on another thread. I agree with MaFuYee was told by BKF in the sense that tendancies of movement of energy is how I understand the practical connections between the Gua and crossing hands.
You can look at the energy in broad terms, like fire and water, but I feel that this is too obscure. One of the ways that I approached the Gua was by looking at the actual arrangement of the lines.
Kan (water), for example, is a solid Yang line surrounded by two broken Yin lines. This has been described by Yijing scholars as the path between danger (two pits on either side). So in terms of application this is to dart in heedless of the flanks to thrust between the opponent's outstretched limbs. The opponent's defences are bypassed with spirals and sleeve-releases to drop vital point stikes onto the core of the body. This is used where the opponent is tenative and slow to commit.
In contrast Luo/Li (fire), is two solid Yang lines protecting a broken Yin line. This has been described as the vassals protecting the body of the sovereign. Agaist attacks this is limb destructions and slip locks. Agressively it is to probe with hits that search but don't commit. As well, when facing a grappling attempt it is to fill the limbs to keep the contact at the middle range where the grappler cannot complete the take down and short power hits can be delivered or projections can be set up. This is also used where the opponent uses long energy and leaves themselves weak on the lateral lines.
Yet another way to use the arrangement of the lines is to look at them in terms of the body itself, with the upper, middle and lower lines corresponding to arms, waist and legs respectively. So Kan is to focus on flowing movements of the arms and rapid footwork, but with a solid waist so that when the hits land they are hard on the inside. Luo/Li is to use more restricted footwork with full energy in the arms, but with a liquid waist so that connections are firm with the opponent but quick changes take place internally with the abdomen. Hard on the outside and soft on the inside.
Does this make sense?
"The heart of the study of boxing is to have natural instinct resemble the dragon" Wang Xiangzai
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