Vio
06-19-2005, 02:58 AM
A kempo guy posted his impressions of a fight/sparring match with a WC'er on bullshido
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24961&page=1&pp=15
"Sparred" yesterday. A new guy at work does wc. I stopped by his school the other night to check it out. He is very enthusiastic about his training and told me several times about blowing karate guys away sparring. So after a day or two I said, ok, bowed and said let's see your stuff. He drove right in punching, landing with pretty hard contact at least once to my face. His fighting distance was sirprisingly close. I threw some knees and he threw me back, catching me off balance and I hit a tree. I should/could have done a head crank takedown when he closed in as he was open for it, but thought of it a second too late. His stance was pretty strong, clinching it wasn't easy to upset his balance or dump him. I did a leg kick that turned him when he attacked, but he recovered fast (or I followed up slow). Then I got in a larger area of the lawn (darn tree hurt) and realized that I had better keep him back at my striking distance and proceeded to land some overhand left jabs to his mouth above his punches. He kept trying to drive in, but the punches kept him back. I got a side kick in and then he charged into a right palm strike to his face (good old Hawaiian Kempo!). He dropped, bled a little from his nose and lips, but was ok. We bowed and shook hands. He wasn't too thrilled about being hit that hard, but knew he'd charged right into it. I could feel his nose imprint on my hand for some time.
It was an intense session. Much more of a fight than what I'm used to at kahrahtey skool, which is sport oriented. It's too bad he's in U class tonight or he could come to kahrahtey and learn sport type sparring with pads and gloves. The attitude towards sparring at his school is to blow them away and just beat 'em down fast. He'd learn a lot from going some rounds with some of the karate guys.
WC looks to me like it would be pretty effective as a self-defense style, but against trained strikers it has some problems. Little Idea (start posting again, man) is a WCer in SLC who cross trains boxing and wrestling. That is a good combo of styles. I don't doubt that this guy I sparred blew away point type karate people. His attacks were aggressive.
I aint punch? has it right. I was shocked and then with my enormous Kempo/Kyokushin skill base, took him out.
Thank goodness.
Like I said, I can see how this would be ok for self-defense, but once I realized what he was up to, my left jab was really all I needed. Their square stance and lack of body movement does hurt them (them WCers...). If we have equal reach, all I have to do is put my shoulder into it and I'd have six inches or so deeper penetration.
From working out with Little Idea and now this guy I now feel I know something about WC. It's like there is a big spectrum of standup techniques, and they have taken one slice of it (face to face squared off, close in) and specialized in that aspect. There is no problem to me with someone learning WC well. They need to cross train more than most stylists (and ofcourse LI knows this and boxes and wrestles). Like any other style, it has limitations. The stand up style Kyokushin has limitations, it's just about 1/100th the limitations of WC, though. There are obvious responses to WC, hooks and uppercuts for one thing, and American Kempo's spinning elbows would destroy their attack, as would MT or KK leg kicks (just have to be faster than I!)
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24961&page=1&pp=15
"Sparred" yesterday. A new guy at work does wc. I stopped by his school the other night to check it out. He is very enthusiastic about his training and told me several times about blowing karate guys away sparring. So after a day or two I said, ok, bowed and said let's see your stuff. He drove right in punching, landing with pretty hard contact at least once to my face. His fighting distance was sirprisingly close. I threw some knees and he threw me back, catching me off balance and I hit a tree. I should/could have done a head crank takedown when he closed in as he was open for it, but thought of it a second too late. His stance was pretty strong, clinching it wasn't easy to upset his balance or dump him. I did a leg kick that turned him when he attacked, but he recovered fast (or I followed up slow). Then I got in a larger area of the lawn (darn tree hurt) and realized that I had better keep him back at my striking distance and proceeded to land some overhand left jabs to his mouth above his punches. He kept trying to drive in, but the punches kept him back. I got a side kick in and then he charged into a right palm strike to his face (good old Hawaiian Kempo!). He dropped, bled a little from his nose and lips, but was ok. We bowed and shook hands. He wasn't too thrilled about being hit that hard, but knew he'd charged right into it. I could feel his nose imprint on my hand for some time.
It was an intense session. Much more of a fight than what I'm used to at kahrahtey skool, which is sport oriented. It's too bad he's in U class tonight or he could come to kahrahtey and learn sport type sparring with pads and gloves. The attitude towards sparring at his school is to blow them away and just beat 'em down fast. He'd learn a lot from going some rounds with some of the karate guys.
WC looks to me like it would be pretty effective as a self-defense style, but against trained strikers it has some problems. Little Idea (start posting again, man) is a WCer in SLC who cross trains boxing and wrestling. That is a good combo of styles. I don't doubt that this guy I sparred blew away point type karate people. His attacks were aggressive.
I aint punch? has it right. I was shocked and then with my enormous Kempo/Kyokushin skill base, took him out.
Thank goodness.
Like I said, I can see how this would be ok for self-defense, but once I realized what he was up to, my left jab was really all I needed. Their square stance and lack of body movement does hurt them (them WCers...). If we have equal reach, all I have to do is put my shoulder into it and I'd have six inches or so deeper penetration.
From working out with Little Idea and now this guy I now feel I know something about WC. It's like there is a big spectrum of standup techniques, and they have taken one slice of it (face to face squared off, close in) and specialized in that aspect. There is no problem to me with someone learning WC well. They need to cross train more than most stylists (and ofcourse LI knows this and boxes and wrestles). Like any other style, it has limitations. The stand up style Kyokushin has limitations, it's just about 1/100th the limitations of WC, though. There are obvious responses to WC, hooks and uppercuts for one thing, and American Kempo's spinning elbows would destroy their attack, as would MT or KK leg kicks (just have to be faster than I!)