wing chun long sword form

[taichi4eva]

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/wengshunkuen/videos.html

I went to Hanoi, Vietnam last December and got the chance to learn some Vinh Xuan (Wing Chun) there. I learned Thu Dau Quyen (Siu Nim Tao), Ngu Hinh Quyen (Five Animal Set), and kiem (long sword). I did not get a chance to learn all the khi cong exercises, nor the staff or butterfly swords.

I did some searches for the presence of a jian form in certain wing chun systems. I found forms in Pao Fa Lien, Chan Yiu Min, and Wudang Weng Chun. The website above has a video of a form done by Ivar Emmanuel Sifu.

What I found interesting was the still pictures of the form.

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/wengshunkuen/longswordphotopage.html

Usually in jian forms, the hand accompanying the hand holding the sword is held with the index and middle fingers standing out. However, here, the hand is held outstretched. Furthermore, the techniques end with the word "dao" (meaning "knife")- lan dao, bil dao, etc. The techniques should end probably with the word "jian." Also, the techniques seem somewhat impractical. If the other hand was held so closely to the sword, if the technique was used to defend against an oncoming attack, the person would get cut. It is as if the other hand is used to brace the sword. That wouldn't be very useful in my opinion.

The kiem form I learned did not seem very "wing chun" at all. The stances were long, kinda like Hung Gar. Vietnam Wing Chunners are famous for their sword, I have heard.

If anyone has any opinions about this, please...

[anerlich]

Interesting stuff. I'd never heard of a Wing Chun long sword form before. Nor a 5 animal form.

From what you're saying, I gather the blade is double edged. I've seen that buttressing the weapon with the free hand before, but only in the context of stick fighting (Hock Hochheim's DMS system makes use of it, for example) not in the context of an edged weapon, especially with a sharp edge digging into your hand! Perhaps you could work with the hand on the flat of the blade, but it still sounds like a great way to cut yourself.

Vietnam Wing Chunners are famous for their sword, I have heard.

Fame which is apparently VERY localised ;)

[KPM]

The kiem form I learned did not seem very "wing chun" at all. The stances were long, kinda like Hung Gar. Vietnam Wing Chunners are famous for their sword, I have heard.

If anyone has any opinions about this, please...


---All of the WCK systems you mentioned are "blended" versions. The jim was imported from an outside source and was not "original" to WCK.

Keith

[taichi4eva]

when i said that vietnamese wing chunners were famous for their jian, i got that from "complete wing chun"

[taichi4eva]

one more thing...

Perhaps this form is supposed to be done with only one butterfly sword rather than a pair. That would make some sense, as that would go along with the techniques end with the word "do." Maybe it's done with a broadsword (niuweidao)?

[anerlich]

All of the WCK systems you mentioned are "blended" versions. The jim was imported from an outside source and was not "original" to WCK.

All WCK systems are "blended" versions. Certainly any that include the long pole ...

[KPM]

All WCK systems are "blended" versions. Certainly any that include the long pole ...

Very true! Good point! :) I should have said "relatively recently blended versions" and "relatively recent import" to WCK. Thanks!

Keith

[dilvie]

The jian only has the top third sharpened. There are many, many forms where the other hand is used to assist in several techniques.

- Eric