Is Hollywood the "Kiss of Death" for Marvel Comics?

[mickey]

Greetings,


I remember in my youth the joys of reading Marvel Comics. The messages that were conveyed to me were that there were no limits to the imagination and that the essential good always prevailed, despite the loss and hardships.


A few strips were made into cartoons at different times from the 60's to the 90's. The most successful ones, in my opinion, were the ones made in the nineties.

Now, comes Hollywod. How in the WORLD could you Fluck up any Marvel series when there is no real need to adapt anything. As with a Shakespearean play, Everything is there for you: characters! plot! subplot! You even have a guaranteed audience.

HOW COULD YOU HOLLYWOOD GUYS mess THESE STORIES UP?

STOP IT ALREADY!!!

Show Stan Lee and his readers some respect.

mickey

[David Jamieson]

Spiderman 1 & 2 were pretty good.

Hulk and Daredevil were horrible though.

Haven't seen electra yet.

ya win some, ya lose some.

A director's vision is not the same as the original writer more often than not.

[Chizica]

The Punisher was pretty true to form as well. The only discrepancies about that movie were that it took place in Tampa instead of New York and he didn't have his buddy who drove around in the van tracking all the baddies.



Chizica

[Kristoffer]

Show Stan Lee respect? The guy is backing these movies 100 %. Marvels movies are the best comic-to-movies ever produced. The X-Men, Spider-Man, The Hulk were all really good and atleast I thought they stayed very true to the original Marvel-feeling. Of corz some have been average and some have been bad, but u'll just have to take focus on what's good.

If you wanna honor Stan Lee, make a Stripparella movie
:D

[Chizica]

In case you hadn't noticed, Stan Lee has a cameo in all the Marvel films, albeit a quick flash of him, he is there.

Also, check this out...

http://superherohype.com/news.php?id=2481

[Shaolinlueb]

i kinda still want to see daredevil. im surprised at how dark it looks. hulk was bad i thought but interesting in a way. xmen and spiderman ruled. punisher needed to be more violent i think. elektra, i dont know why they made a movie of her, i never thought she was really that popular. fantastic four looks good, and i am hoping for avengers. cant forget blade, those have been good. (note i havent seen the 3rd one)

[mickey]

Chizica,

Saw the link. I really believe that it should not have ever gotten to the point where Stan Lee had to sue for that.

While I was impressed with the animation in the Hulk, there was no need for the name change and the other deviations from the Hulk saga. When he was fighting the guys in the tanks, I was waiting for him to scream out "Tank Bad, Tank Bad!!"

Ben Affleck looked way too gay, and I might add comfortably so, as Daredevil.

When it came to the X Men, I needed to see some of the earlies members. I would have been great to see the Beast.

Spiderman was okay.

If Stan Lee had more control with the product I think the movies would be better. Just because he is in the cameos does not necessarily mean he that is satisfied with the end product. I hope he gets a few million dollars every time he shows his face.

mickey

[Design Sifu]

While I have great gratitude for Stan Lee's work... I have to say I would prefer his role to remain that of promotion and the occasional cameo. Did anyone who saw Elektra see Stan? I didn't. Anyway, what's the most recent Stan Lee stuff you've read Mickey? Time's have changed and Mr. Lee's writting is no longer as significant as it once was.

Did you read any of his DC universe stuff?

how about that website he had going a few years back?

As for Stripparella, well the cartoon was enough and Pamela Anderson had her shot at Silver Screen Superhero with BARB WIRE (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115624/) :rolleyes:

Getting back to Marvel movies I think it's great that Holywoods adopting them. Marvel as a company has restructured itself to be a sort of product development/licencing company. Thus their true priority now is to develop marketable charactors to be translated into toys, games and even movies. With that in mind even their boxoffice failures is a sort of success. And most of this stuff is far better than the never released Capt. America, Fantastic Four films of a decade back.

HULK
Personally I enjoyed HULK alot... not sure what you ment by "the name change" though. While most people are familuar with the HULK SMASH type of hulk from the cartoons as well as the "David Banner" hulk of TV I'm not sure many people are aware of the very psychodelic Hulk of the 80's & 90's. While watching the film it seemed as though it was THAT era that the film most closely resembled; the inner psychosis/ dream sequences, the romance, the visual style. Sure I would have rather seen THE ABOMINATION instead of Gamma dogs but IMO Ang Lee compresses alot of the Hulk Mythos in one film while retaining his own artistic vision.

Daredevil
Daredevil suffered from having a creator who just wanted to please EVERYONE. I thought Ben Aflick was a poor choice in casting (but he was popular at the time). Who would have been a better choice?

The leather costume was trying too hard to be X-man + Batman and reminded me of a brief 90's era daredevil costume; rather weak. Elektra really shouldn't have been in the film at all, instead more attention should have been focused on the growing rivalry between DD & Kingpin.

Elektra
a decent attempt, enjoyable use of charactor's from the Marvel stable. They would've done better to remain closer to the source text. An R rating would have been nice too.


Punisher
I think they missed a few Key dynamics in the film. That whole bit with his Sone giving him the Skull shirt was kinda lame. Him being FBI instead of retired special forces was no big deal however, the whole "you killed my family" revenge bit also diminished the spirit of that mythos. I always thought a significant aspect of the Punisher's tragidy was that his family was all killed by random violence; they where in the wrong place at the wrong time. It would have been way more satisfying if after Frank Castle hunts down that whole family it's revealed that there was no vendetta, no revenge, just a random occurance that caused him to "crack." In this way EVERYONE who commits a (violent) crime is responsible for his family's death and all of them should be "punished."

Blade
Better than I would've imagined it could be considering the source character.

Spiderman
was great... loved it... can't quite think of anything that could make it better (except for a different design for Green Goblin, I supose)

X-men
Also great fun and a worthy film. The costume changes where okay.,.. far better than black & yellow spandex. The story was smart and Hank MacCoy's cameo on T.V. in X2 a was nice touch. There's such potential in the X-men becoming a solid "franchise" ala 007 or Star Trek.

Man Thing
looks like it'll do direct to video.

Captain America
There was once talk of Brad Pitt. I don't know why they have just gotten on the ball with this film. These days it almnost writes itself. WW 2 for the first third of the film then frozen in ice, found by scientists then he goes out to fight terrorists.

F.F.
I have high hopes for its success.

Ghost Rider
well I'd rather see Nick Cage in this role than superman.

Iron Man
the FX are there to make a solid Sci Fi/spy thriller.

Thor
The talk has been to have Wetta (LOTR) produce this film. Could be EPIC!

Ant Man
Can you believe it's in development. Could be a trip.
:D

Iron Fist
Too bad the ball's been dropped on this one, it could've been hot a year or so back. Now it'll just seem derivative.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Design Sifu
While I have great gratitude for Stan Lee's work... I have to say I would prefer his role to remain that of promotion and the occasional cameo. Did anyone who saw Elektra see Stan? I didn't. Anyway, what's the most recent Stan Lee stuff you've read Mickey? Time's have changed and Mr. Lee's writting is no longer as significant as it once was.

Did you read any of his DC universe stuff?

how about that website he had going a few years back?

As for Stripparella, well the cartoon was enough and Pamela Anderson had her shot at Silver Screen Superhero with BARB WIRE (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115624/) :rolleyes:

Getting back to Marvel movies I think it's great that Holywoods adopting them. Marvel as a company has restructured itself to be a sort of product development/licencing company. Thus their true priority now is to develop marketable charactors to be translated into toys, games and even movies. With that in mind even their boxoffice failures is a sort of success. And most of this stuff is far better than the never released Capt. America, Fantastic Four films of a decade back.

HULK
Personally I enjoyed HULK alot... not sure what you ment by "the name change" though. While most people are familuar with the HULK SMASH type of hulk from the cartoons as well as the "David Banner" hulk of TV I'm not sure many people are aware of the very psychodelic Hulk of the 80's & 90's. While watching the film it seemed as though it was THAT era that the film most closely resembled; the inner psychosis/ dream sequences, the romance, the visual style. Sure I would have rather seen THE ABOMINATION instead of Gamma dogs but IMO Ang Lee compresses alot of the Hulk Mythos in one film while retaining his own artistic vision.

Daredevil
Daredevil suffered from having a creator who just wanted to please EVERYONE. I thought Ben Aflick was a poor choice in casting (but he was popular at the time). Who would have been a better choice?

The leather costume was trying too hard to be X-man + Batman and reminded me of a brief 90's era daredevil costume; rather weak. Elektra really shouldn't have been in the film at all, instead more attention should have been focused on the growing rivalry between DD & Kingpin.

Elektra
a decent attempt, enjoyable use of charactor's from the Marvel stable. They would've done better to remain closer to the source text. An R rating would have been nice too.


Punisher
I think they missed a few Key dynamics in the film. That whole bit with his Sone giving him the Skull shirt was kinda lame. Him being FBI instead of retired special forces was no big deal however, the whole "you killed my family" revenge bit also diminished the spirit of that mythos. I always thought a significant aspect of the Punisher's tragidy was that his family was all killed by random violence; they where in the wrong place at the wrong time. It would have been way more satisfying if after Frank Castle hunts down that whole family it's revealed that there was no vendetta, no revenge, just a random occurance that caused him to "crack." In this way EVERYONE who commits a (violent) crime is responsible for his family's death and all of them should be "punished."

Blade
Better than I would've imagined it could be considering the source character.

Spiderman
was great... loved it... can't quite think of anything that could make it better (except for a different design for Green Goblin, I supose)

X-men
Also great fun and a worthy film. The costume changes where okay.,.. far better than black & yellow spandex. The story was smart and Hank MacCoy's cameo on T.V. in X2 a was nice touch. There's such potential in the X-men becoming a solid "franchise" ala 007 or Star Trek.

Man Thing
looks like it'll do direct to video.

Captain America
There was once talk of Brad Pitt. I don't know why they have just gotten on the ball with this film. These days it almnost writes itself. WW 2 for the first third of the film then frozen in ice, found by scientists then he goes out to fight terrorists.

F.F.
I have high hopes for its success.

Ghost Rider
well I'd rather see Nick Cage in this role than superman.

Iron Man
the FX are there to make a solid Sci Fi/spy thriller.

Thor
The talk has been to have Wetta (LOTR) produce this film. Could be EPIC!

Ant Man
Can you believe it's in development. Could be a trip.
:D

Iron Fist
Too bad the ball's been dropped on this one, it could've been hot a year or so back. Now it'll just seem derivative.

making an ant man and iron fist movie is like making the elektra movie. anyone who doesnt know comics wont know who it was. luckily she was in daredevil. a man thing movie would be cool. especially if they have leach and the other kid from gen x in there.
i would rather see an avengers movie, then a sperate thor and iron man movie, war machine would be cool though.

[mickey]

Design Sifu,

I admit that I do not keep up with the current comics. The poor artwork stopped doing it for me a long time ago.

Bruce Banner was the name of the original Hulk, not David Banner.

Daredevil, by the way, had fantastic tumbling skills.

The thought of Stan Lee going over to DC comics is akin to having someone scratch their nails across a blackboard (they still have those don't they?). Then again, considering my memory of them, they needed him.

If Hollywood would give more attention to the accuracy of the origins of each superhero, they would have a very strong franchise base to build on. When they deviate, they lose me. and if I was in their line of work, I wouldn't want to lose anyone.

mickey

[Design Sifu]

There's alot of comics out there... tastes and flavors vary...

Check out the current Daredevil comic for an idea of how great the movie could've been.

Yes, Bruce was the original name for the Hulk's alter ego. It was changed to David in the TV show but remained bruce for the film.

Iron Fist & Ant man are boith concepts that could translate well on the big screen if handled correctly.

I suspect alot of people where unaware that BLADE was originally a comic book charactor when the first movie hit. It stood on it's on merrits and succeeded.

Ant Man reminds me of some Old OLD OLD B/W film I watch as a kid... mysterious journey or something where I guy some how shrinks smaller and smaller and must survive life in his own home at the size of a bug. Playing up the sci-fi aspect could be great... the ant hill as alien society all of it could really be cool.

Man Thing was completed and intended to be released sometime this past fall/winter. To date it's been shelved.

As for AVENGER... not so sure myself. Aside from the potential confusion with the T.V. series and recent film, it seems like it would spend too much time trying to develop a coherient "world" where all of these charactors could exist.

As for accurately sticking to the comic, I think it could cu both ways. Can you imagine how silly Hugh Jackman would've looked in yellow spandex? Setting off a Gamma Bomb at a military test site in New mexico where some drifter can sneak in and get stoned is a bit of a dated concept these days.

I think it just depends some of the initial pesdeoscience used to explain stuff in comics just doesn't work these days (30-60 years later) sometimes it does.... Peter Parker with "organic webshooters" made alot of sence in the film; so much so it's recently been adopted in the comics.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Design Sifu
There's alot of comics out there... tastes and flavors vary...

Check out the current Daredevil comic for an idea of how great the movie could've been.

Yes, Bruce was the original name for the Hulk's alter ego. It was changed to David in the TV show but remained bruce for the film.

Iron Fist & Ant man are boith concepts that could translate well on the big screen if handled correctly.

I suspect alot of people where unaware that BLADE was originally a comic book charactor when the first movie hit. It stood on it's on merrits and succeeded.

Ant Man reminds me of some Old OLD OLD B/W film I watch as a kid... mysterious journey or something where I guy some how shrinks smaller and smaller and must survive life in his own home at the size of a bug. Playing up the sci-fi aspect could be great... the ant hill as alien society all of it could really be cool.

Man Thing was completed and intended to be released sometime this past fall/winter. To date it's been shelved.

As for AVENGER... not so sure myself. Aside from the potential confusion with the T.V. series and recent film, it seems like it would spend too much time trying to develop a coherient "world" where all of these charactors could exist.

As for accurately sticking to the comic, I think it could cu both ways. Can you imagine how silly Hugh Jackman would've looked in yellow spandex? Setting off a Gamma Bomb at a military test site in New mexico where some drifter can sneak in and get stoned is a bit of a dated concept these days.

I think it just depends some of the initial pesdeoscience used to explain stuff in comics just doesn't work these days (30-60 years later) sometimes it does.... Peter Parker with "organic webshooters" made alot of sence in the film; so much so it's recently been adopted in the comics.

yeah daredevil could have been great. i still want to see it, even though i'm filled with low expectations.

thats true with blade, no one knew he was a comic character except the comic readers. i didnt put 2+2 together at first. if success like that could be made off such an unknown name, maybe ironfist and cloack and dagger ... i mean antman and wa... antman could be a good movie. an avengers movie would be cool though, capt american, thor, hawkeye, vision, iron man, wasp, scarlet witch, and some other people i forgot about taking on ultron and some other foes would be cool.

and thank got they didnt stick to the comics on some of the origins, i think they fit better with the times. im sure everyone is happy with the xmen costumes. cause no one wants to see hugh jackman in yellow spandex, although storm or psylockes outfits would be nice :D

[Design Sifu]

Well if you want to see Halle Barry in Black leather... check out CATWOMAN! :D

Famke Jansen running around ina green Miniskirt would've been fun too!

[Samurai Jack]

I predict that if Hollywood decides to tackle an Avengers movie it'll be through a crossover story where a few of the characters make a brief appearance in an established storyline such as Spiderman 3, Hulk 2, or X-men 3. They also probably will just simplify the Avengers cast by paring it down initially ala "The Ultimates", which basically focuses on the relationship between Iron-man, Captain America, and Thor (who I loved SO much portrayed as a possibly delusional Schizophrenic mutant, who REALLY might be the ol' god of thunder himself).

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
I predict that if Hollywood decides to tackle an Avengers movie it'll be through a crossover story where a few of the characters make a brief appearance in an established storyline such as Spiderman 3, Hulk 2, or X-men 3. They also probably will just simplify the Avengers cast by paring it down initially ala "The Ultimates", which basically focuses on the relationship between Iron-man, Captain America, and Thor (who I loved SO much portrayed as a possibly delusional Schizophrenic mutant, who REALLY might be the ol' god of thunder himself).

god i hope not.

[FuXnDajenariht]

screw all that. they need a silver surfer movie!!

if they could get George Lucas' production company to do the effects.... and Sam Raimi to direct... the possibilties. :D

drooool~~

[red5angel]

not sure if this was mentioned or not yet but my brother-in-law was just telling me that Marvel was about to declare bankruptcy or some other such issue when X-men came out.

[Design Sifu]

Marvel's decared bankruptcy several times over as I understand it. Not sure about the whens, what etc... but yeah. if I recall correctly that was part of why they restructured themselves as a sort of development studio for licences. They are currently own by TOYBIZ who prettymuch writes off all of marvel's costs as developments expenses.

PS: red that's a pretty harsh Avatar you're sporting. Need a higher Rez version to er play with?

[red5angel]

DS, I couldn't get it any sharper, I'm not the digital art guy I should be to do Helen any good :)

[brothernumber9]

If they do a Thor flick, it would be great if they could base it around the ragnarock saga/legend, make it more of a fantasy piece like LOTR instead of the typical super hero/bad guy re hash.
no beta ray bill please.
Surtyr, Fafnir, the Fenris wolf, forst giants, and of course the norse gods, I think could be a great movie.

I agree with Design, A Cap'n America movie is primed for right now, and doesn't need to involve any super powers that would be difficult to translate onto screen. The first one was abysmal, the movie was more like a motorcyle cop with some ghey costume on riding around on a way oversized interstate bike doing nothing.

Hulk was good, although a teaser to a possible sequel with the Leader, or abomination, or the Ufoes or even Doc Samson would have been cool. and it would have been cool if they could have included the old "hulk is the strongest there is!" or something along that lines.

[Chizica]

Hopefully, someone will do a version of Dr. Strange. The way it's supposed to be done, not the sappy, poorly produced version from 1978.

[Design Sifu]

According to Fangoria (http://www.fangoria.com/news_article.php?id=3447), Lions Gate Films and Marvel Studios' Man-Thing, directed by Brett Leonard, will by-pass theaters and will air on Sci Fi Channel in April. The movie will then come to DVD on June 14.

[Shaolinlueb]

marvel's stock was an over the counter stock for like 1 dollar before xmen and spiderman came out. blade helped it a bit but not much. the movie's helped boost readers and profits by a lot. so technically it was the kiss of life for marvel. if they start to go bad though, expect same profits for marvel too.

[NeedsPractice]

If they could pull off x-men they could pull off the avengers but just depending on what characters they use ( like the x-men) the movie could go way over the top as far as special effects. Remember often the avengers were fighting alien races and galactic level or world threatening villians. i think the xmen movie worked because although they had mutants they kept the scale of powers small to a degree. Storm didnt create hurricanes every 5 seconds etc. In other words more story than special effects.
Also the original avengers were thor, captain america, iron man, ant man and the hulk.Thats one heck of a cast.
I think instead of live action they should go with R rated anime,then they could stick to the comic story and special effects arent a problem.
I liked daredevil it wasnt too bad a movie, it would be nice if they could get the daredevil kingpin in the spiderman movie even for a cameo.
Blade 3 would have been a nice way to intro ghostrider in a cameo, instead of the nightstalker crap.

[Vash]

Ghost Rider would have kicked blade's pansy ass.

Blade II, though, would roxors all over the Flaming Headed Dude's bony ass.