large golden bell

[Enforcer-]

whats the difference between small and large golden bell or anyone know of any sites that explain it?

[MasterKiller]

large golden bell doesn't exist anymore.

[David Jamieson]

large golden bell doesn't exist anymore.

I am not certain that is true.

[NorthernShaolin]

The difference between the two is:

A person who is skilled in Small Golden Bell has the ability, not conditioned his body, to absorb punches and kicks from his opponent while Large Golden Bell is a developed skill that will not allow any sharp objects like spears, swords and sabers to penetrate the skin. In other words the skin become an armor against cutting weapons.

The real Large Golden Bell Art is lost. Many practitioners of this art thought or were lead to believe that LGB could stop bullets but later discovered it was not true. Many of them lost their lives during the Boxer Rebellion because of this false belief.

However, there are some masters today who claim that they practice LGB. And they can and will demonstrate their ability to stop spears to their throats. We have all seen this in demos. But many of the older generation masters who know (I'm talking about the real old Dragons) will continue to say that the real LGB is a lost art.

[Buddy]

"while Large Golden Bell is a developed skill that will not allow any sharp objects like spears, swords and sabers to penetrate the skin. In other words the skin become an armor against cutting weapons."

Obviously this is nonsense.

"And they can and will demonstrate their ability to stop spears to their throats. We have all seen this in demos."

This is a trick of leverage.

[NorthernShaolin]

Obviously, the trick is to place the spear head tip on the breast bone then raise the shoulders so that it looks like the tip of the spear is placed on the neck. Next you have the person holding the spear press downwards, not forwards and the flexible shaft of the spear bends in a U-shape.

[MasterKiller]

Then how does Large Golden Bell come into play if it's just a parlor trick?

[Enforcer-]

so when you train in golden bell does it only affect the body (like chest and stomach and back) or the head, groin, and legs as well? I mean could you just stand there and let the guy ebat you up without injury and pain? Or is it just conditioning? and how do you condition a body that is made of bones to not break or not get hurt when lets say a boxer throws a massive strike at your ribs?

[SaekSan]

"Obviously, the trick is to place the spear head tip on the breast bone then raise the shoulders so that it looks like the tip of the spear is placed on the neck."

Actually the spear tip does go on the throat (at least my method) as you press forward you control the blade with your hands until there's enough pressure built up on the chest area that it stays in control. The real trick in this part is the initial press forward, if you can get through this the next section is easy.

"Next you have the person holding the spear press downwards, not forwards and the flexible shaft of the spear bends in a U-shape."

I have seen this method and it is true, both people work together on it, however in the method I use, one person secures the butt of the spear on the ground and while I press forward (less variables in the equation). The tricky part is not getting the holder or yourself hurt when the spear breaks.

"This is a trick of leverage."

This is true, however it does take a lot of concentration and proper understanding of how to do this. It's easily thaugt to a willing student.

BTW - Don't try this at home and/or without the supervision of someone who knows how to do this, you can get hurt if you don't know how.

:)

[NorthernShaolin]

MK,

Well, currently this is what we observe in demos that show LGB. Keeping in mind that it is obvious it is a parlor trick. However, what LGB was like before 1900 I do not know. We can only judge if LGB was really real in a way that makes sense to our western thinking from what we can read in old TCMA text and testimonies from people who observed LGB first hand of which unfortuniately today they have all passed away. Anyway LGB must have existed in some form or fashion because LGB is in so many literature across the board in the Chinese Culture. It's just that we do not know exactly what LGB really was before 1900.

Enforcer,

To answer your question, yes, assuming one already knowns SGB. But one important aspect in SGB, the practitioner must see the strike coming at him. If he is attacked from behind, or caught unprepared, then SGB will not work.

Is it conditiuoning of the body? To a certain degree yes but not as we know it through heavy physical beating parts of the body. There is some physical conditioning but most of it is through breathing techniques and positioning one body in relationship to the opponent.

[NorthernShaolin]

SaekSan,

Well maybe is not a parlor trick after all. Someday you have to show me but not on me. I'm not a willing student...more a chicken!

[SaekSan]

Anytime Shifu!

I can post some pics on the Fu-ragz forum if you would like to see them. They were from the Grand Opening of our school.

[Enforcer-]

so do you have to get ready for them to hit you and stand still for a second breathing in like in that movie Invincible Armour for it to work? Or can you fight normally and they wont be able to hurt you anyway? And is there only one weak spot or was that a movie myth?

[Enforcer-]

and what about pak mei? Wasn't he like an expert in that?

I bet if its real pro boxers would pay lots of money for that kind of training 9as long as they dont have to stand still and get ready for the hits first).

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by NorthernShaolin
To answer your question, yes, assuming one already knowns SGB. But one important aspect in SGB, the practitioner must see the strike coming at him. If he is attacked from behind, or caught unprepared, then SGB will not work.

.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with this. There are certain parts of your body that will always be vulnerable, but I think the trick to that is that not alot of ppl know where they are, let alone are able to hit them with enough accuracy.
So in the second part of that statement, you're saying that if you are prepared, seeing the strike comming doesn't neccessarily matter.

[Enforcer-]

whose the best golden bell teacher in the united states and does he have any clips or demonstration vids of people beating on him with no effect (judo kai people do)?

[Lu Zhi Shen]

Why Nonsense. I myself, in my many years of following and learning Kung Fu, (This by no means states in a skilled kung fu stylist. Heck I hope before I pass on I can grasp 5% of what I have seen.) I have had the honor to have seen many great masters. I have seen The art of Lightness. (Hing Kung) I have seen a master from a squatting position, Jump and land about 10 feet on a ledge. (I asked him how he could do this. And why wasn’t he in the Olympics?) He answered. Real masters do not showoff. To use this skill to win in that kind of a competition would not be fare to the competition or the art. We learn these secret training methods to preserve them and pass them on to worthy students that will not misuse them. As for training. he gave me a few examples. He asked. Have you ever jumped on a trampoline for a while then step off and try to jump. Then find you cannot get off the ground. I agreed. He said my training is the reverse of that theory.
I have seen a few masters even one female master that was able to direct her chi to break a lone brick in a pile of 15, this brick was picked by me! The brick did not just break, it exploded to dust.
As for Iron shirt. I have seen a master or in fact masters taking blows on bare skin. (not only chops but slashing as well) the swords where sharp machetes (from a hardware store) Not tin kung fu swords. No blood. But there was red marks where they had been hit.
I also witnessed a cook at a Chinese restaurant. stuck his whole arm inside of the hot deep fryer oil. His arm boiled and he pulled it out with no damage. I had to buy him a case of beer and a case of cigarettes!! This cook was fat and smoked and was not in good health. In my eyes. However, he did this in front of me and there were no tricks. I asked him to teach me. He declined and said his son will hold the next generation of this skill. He said. He didn’t care for kung fu, but he trained only to honor his family and father. And again, that magic word preserve.
My first Shifu told me the old masters could change the direction of the wind. They could kill you with a touch. They could perform feats of strength that defies physics. And a good master didn’t only learn to hurt but to heal and repair damage caused by his art.
He also explained train in this day and age and the way they trained 1000 years ago is so different. Pollution, chemicals, poor air, stress of life. Etc. are all elements that hinder our training. So after studying. Taoism and Buddhism, Chinese medicine, acupuncture, and martial arts, all seems possible.
So as for Nonsense. That is your opinion. I hope, one day you will see the true wonders of this art we all are trying to preserve.

“We are limited, because we are taught to stop. We cannot imagine, because we are taught you can't. that is nonsense.” If we all heeded these limitations, we would still live in caves.”

Almitoufo

Lu Zhi Shen

[NorthernShaolin]

Enforcer-

There are three area that SGB cannot protect. Eyes and the groin being two of them. Don't remember the third one. Can't answer your other questions.


Ego_Extrodinaire,

What I'm saying is that as a punch or kick is coming in, one moves to direct the blow to the area of the body that is away from the three areas that SGB cannot protect.

Lu Zhi Shen,

Very Interesting. I've witnessed the Art of Lightness, and the hot oil on the skin too. But that's not Golden Bell.

[Enforcer-]

I have seen The art of Lightness. (Hing Kung) I have seen a master from a squatting position, Jump and land about 10 feet on a ledge. (I asked him how he could do this. And why wasn’t he in the Olympics?) He answered. Real masters do not showoff.

and I'm guessing that's the same reason real masters have not dominated the mma world?

btw, even if he doesn't want to show off in the olympics wouldn't his feats be at least recorded in the guenise book of world records? And wouldn't the Chinese government (since this skill has been in effect sopposevly for centuries) know about this skill and try to recruit masters to help their national athletic teams?

[Enforcer-]

There are three area that SGB cannot protect. Eyes and the groin being two of them. Don't remember the third one. Can't answer your other questions.

how bout the nose, throat, and ears?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by NorthernShaolin
Enforcer-

There are three area that SGB cannot protect. Eyes and the groin being two of them. Don't remember the third one. Can't answer your other questions.


Ego_Extrodinaire,

What I'm saying is that as a punch or kick is coming in, one moves to direct the blow to the area of the body that is away from the three areas that SGB cannot protect.



Northern Shoalin. In fact there several more ( like feet and hands ( particularly intercostally / knees / elbows / small strike to belly button cavity ) and then subregions of those regions.

I apppreciate what you're saying above, but it's not exactly what we were talking about and again is not neccessarily an absolute.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Enforcer-
and I'm guessing that's the same reason real masters have not dominated the mma world?

btw, even if he doesn't want to show off in the olympics wouldn't his feats be at least recorded in the guenise book of world records? And wouldn't the Chinese government (since this skill has been in effect sopposevly for centuries) know about this skill and try to recruit masters to help their national athletic teams?
You do realize participation the Guenise is volantery, don't you? Maybe some people just don'tfeel the need to brag about what they have done of tear others' mastery apart to feel like they are "someone".

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Is golden bell a type of internal kung fu? maybe it's related to hsingI or bagua????

that being said though, we know there are various other iron skill come s/l gb in various styles so does anyone have a correlating link??

[Lu Zhi Shen]

All things have a weakness. I was told. Pouring water over someone that has turned on, his or her golden bell would nullify the effect. Who knows? The question about the Chinese government recruiting masters is a riddle to me as well (Or maybe they feel it would be to their best interest to keep a few tricks up their sleeve.).I do know. I have as many questions as you all.
However, asking the question is the first step in getting an answer. =]

To have an enormous capacity
is to be ready for the great integrity.


Almitoufo

Lu Zhi Shen

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

the government banned gongfu and other expressive arts during the CR, particularly where pysical empowerment was an aspect of those arts. Why you would think the govt there should've preserved some of it, when as far as they're concerned they killed them all, ( or at least the better skilled of them ) is quite beyond me.

[Buddy]

OMG where to begin...
"I'm not entirely sure I agree with this. There are certain parts of your body that will always be vulnerable, but I think the trick to that is that not alot of ppl know where they are, let alone are able to hit them with enough accuracy.
"
This is just complete horse ****. If I use a neck throw and break your pencil neck I'm not worried about your imaginary bell cover.

I have a couple of very sharp knives and some facility with them. I'll give you $1000 if I can't cut you. Stop this nonsense.

"All things have a weakness. I was told. Pouring water over someone that has turned on, his or her golden bell would nullify the effect."

This is just what I'm talking about. Pouring water over them?


"Is golden bell a type of internal kung fu? maybe it's related to hsingI or bagua????"

This certainly shows you know nothing about IMA.


"To have an enormous capacity
is to be ready for the great integrity."

Or perhaps gullability.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

can always use the wallet cushioning, and the nonsense is in your own ignorance.

btw on the necfk throw , even if you have s or l gb skills, your feet are still open and so is your groin.ands other areas you haven't even acknowledgd nor identified!!......

I am NO brick neck , but still....I'd like to see you try to execute that throw!!!!!!!!

on water throwing :- water tentatively = chi disruption ( come concentration , focus and direction of that qi perhaps???:confused: ) at most western/ objective , an "out of the blue " distraction???

don't even try to tell me that a hsing yi dude practicing in earnest and for many yrs doesn't or wouldn't be familiar with this gong!! hsing yi is internal gongfu!!

btw :- who "doesn't " have " great capacity"!!!???

EE

[Buddy]

"btw on the necfk throw , even if you have s or l gb skills, your feet are still open and so is your groin.ands other areas you haven't even acknowledgd nor identified!!......

I am NO brick neck , but still....I'd like to see you try to execute that throw!!!!!!!!"

In a heartbeat. You seem to think that real fighting is like magazine photos. Upon entering I am going to either hit you very hard to set up the throw or make your react in a way I choose, then hit you hard to set up the throw.


"on water throwing :- water tentatively = chi disruption ( come concentration , focus and direction of that qi perhaps??? ) at most western/ objective , an "out of the blue " distraction???"

Or could be just crap. I'm more inclined to that one.

"don't even try to tell me that a hsing yi dude practicing in earnest and for many yrs doesn't or wouldn't be familiar with this gong!! hsing yi is internal gongfu!"

But you know nothing at all about xingyiquan. I do. It's not a part of Taiji, Xingyi, or Bagua.

Kelvin,
Doesn't it get tiresome being a silly, skinny, pretentious little girl who doesn't realize she is dealing with her betters?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

that woman I speak with and do or don't adopt philosophies from is acutely aware that on many lvls ( particularly off the street and opposed to the ring) on these boards , knows she has many many betters on these boards and in real time life!!!!! She is humble on what she doesn't know ( generous and unpretentious about what she does) , and believe me..those facets are multi dementional...........


WE've both fought in earnest for our lives on the street and in the field ( amature ring scene included) and stay naive yourself, it's not going to protect any more for all your arrogance!! Don't you even wanna protect youself??? We 're trying to help you here!!! bab..buddy......:( !!!:eek: :confused: ;)

on the skinny :- pls see bruce lee pics when he arrived in the west !! vs western heman/ men !!

[Buddy]

"She is humble on what she doesn't know ( generous and unpretentious about what she does) , and believe me..those facets are multi dementional..........."

With focus on 'demention' or wait, you meant dimension. No, mine was right.

"and stay naive yourself, it's not going to protect any more for all your arrogance!! Don't you even wanna protect youself???"

I'm better than you. You have nothing to offer. No brag, just fact.

"on the skinny :- pls see bruce lee pics when he arrived in the west !! vs western heman/ men"

You're right. He's prettier than you. Bruce Lee was a movie guy.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

you probably are indeed prettier but here we're only intersted in ma and bettering our performance.... it's sunday , and I need a pampering , so you have like 5 - 10 mins max!!!

[Buddy]

"you probably are indeed prettier.."

You're probably right.

"but here we're only intersted in ma and bettering our performance"

You haven't shown any facilty for understanding martial arts.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

budwai and I need one o those facials no man admits to !!

ming tian , or later tonight..

btw : bl went to the meat mart in Guangzhou and had a potential dinner come turtle friend look at her optimistically.bought him and called him a friend....

......does any one know anything about stinky-shelled turtle care???

Ps: heard she was living 1/2 a block away from buddihst temple and I'm expecting a report any moment...... let you know if any relevant comes from it!!

[Buddy]

There there there. Be a good girl and go sleep it off.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

I hate you !!!!!

no...but you do occupy more of my thoughts than I was willing to give.......still only Ego extrodinaire! you chat with here !!!!!!


I am not Bloooming
LOtus nor Michelle....accept that??!!!!!!! ba...buddy!!!?? and friends!


Ps: i still hate you!!!!!! :( :) :( :(

going to body / facial mask and onto temple!!!


later troll boy!!!!!

Ego !

[Buddy]

"going to body / facial mask and onto temple"

Going kinda femmy, aren't you Eggo?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

a man's got to look after himself right???? :o :mad:

[Lu Zhi Shen]

Simmer boys and girls. Is this 90210 or Shaolin Forums?

"When the ego interferes in the rhythms of process,
there is so much doing! but nothing is done..."

Almitoufo

Lu Zhi Shen

Visit: www.houstonshaolin.com

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Like I said, I'm getting in touch with my feminine side.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
I hate you !!!!!
Gotta love that Buddhist detachment.

And in case you were going to try to insist once again that you're not Michelle:

going to body / facial mask and onto temple!!!

Which temple in NJ or Castle Hill would that be? Oh no, of course, it's the temple that "you hear" that YOU are staying near!

Idiot.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Serpent,

I treat my body as a temple, herein lies your confusion. I go to facials to make my body beautiful.

[Buddy]

"I treat my body as a temple, herein lies your confusion. I go to facials to make my body beautiful."

I think she wants a "facial". Either that or it's swallow and spit.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

and you're as crass as it gets.! always with the sex :rolleyes:

[Buddy]

"and you're as crass as it gets.! always with the sex "
Then learn to STFU.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

I believe we were talking about iron skills and s/l GB......

[Buddy]

Ask Enforcer what Tim Cartmell said when he posted the same question there. GBC as a means of avoiding being cut is crap. No go away Bloomie, adults are talking.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Look, iron skills are a forte of mine and of as greater interest to me shaolin and southern stylings which your comments also deficate all over. A troll is a troll , but you're getting ludicrous! Why you persit in speaking rubbish, I don't understand. Shut up or contribute ( in what ever capacity you deem relevant ) to the discussion topic .......okay!!

[IronFist]

If you jump on a trampoline and then can't jump off of the ground after that you have some serious problems with your balance and neurological coordination. An untrained 5 year old could do that, so I hope that your kung fu isn't hindering that ability.

Now, it feels funny to jump on the ground right after being on a trampline because of short term neurological adaptation, but you're not jumping any lower than you would otherwise (unless your legs are really tired from being on the trampoline). It just feels like you're not jumping as high because of what you were just doing.

It's kind of like if you rollerblade for an hour or so and then take off the skates and jump as high as you can. It feels like you're jumping really high because you just took 5lbs of weight off of each foot. But guess what? You're jumping the same height as you normally would.

So as I see it, there are only two ways being able to jump higher could work. One, you get stronger (big Olympic lifters have insane vertical jumps due to the nature of their explosive lifting, despite being 300+ lbs sometimes), or two, you get lighter (less weight to move). Since lightness training doesn't require you to go on a diet, it therefore must work my somehow strengthening the legs.

Or does it "use qi to make the body lighter?"

[Enforcer-]

Bruce Lee never backed down from a challenge.

[Buddy]

"Look, iron skills are a forte of mine"

A forte? So if I hit you, you can withstand it? Apart from using my neijin, which will make you want to spit blood, I'm 195 lbs. You would be seriously hurt.

"and of as greater interest to me shaolin and southern stylings which your comments also deficate all over."

Is there a thought here?

"A troll is a troll , but you're getting ludicrous!"

If you can't stand the heat...

"Why you persit in speaking rubbish, I don't understand."

You don't understand so you think it's rubblish. I'm trying to teach you Michelle, but you don't have the capacity for understanding.

"Shut up or contribute ( in what ever capacity you deem relevant ) to the discussion topic .......okay!!"

Which part of GBC is a waste of time didn't you get? You think it's a part of Xingyi, it's not. You know nothing about xingyi but insist on commenting. I could challenge to a little game but you'd lose that too.

[Buddy]

"Bruce Lee never backed down from a challenge."

Why are you discussing dead actors? What did Tim tell you about gold bell cover, enfo?
Wan't it: "Large Golden Bell" isn't a lost art. There isn't now nor has there ever been any method of making the body impenetrable to edged weapons. These kinds of fantastic stories were made popular in the "martial hero" novels of a century ago."

[Lu Zhi Shen]

Who is to say what can happen and what can't happen.
In history, many you can'ts and thats fantasy has been proven differant. for example:

"The World is flat!"
"Men on the moon...hahaha"
Another way to look at it is, Do you believe in the bible? or Buddhism, etc. if so saving oneself from a knife wound is cake.

Beleive it or not. I have seen masters take hits as I said in one of my posts. I have no reason to lie, nor is it in my nature to want to promote fantasy. But I undrestand you. I was the same way until I did see it with my own eyes. The thing is you don't believe what you can't understand.
Do you believe wind can kill you? do you beleive wind can push over a house? Do you see wind as you would see the water in the ocean? what holds the planes and birds in the sky? So if one understands and learns the true secret of nature. one would see the wind as we would see the ground we walk on. thus we could walk on it.

There are so many mysteries, in ancient ideas and training. even though we are so advanced we lost our root with nature. So I see it as the more we gain the more we lose, unless we preserve.

Almitoufo

Lu Zhi Shen

[IronFist]

Even if that stuff did work, have you ever seen anyone use it in combat? What good is protection if you have to charge up your qi and be standing in a certain position for it to work?

[Shaolinlueb]

what about the monks who use sharp swords to cut across thier chest? theres a line but no cut. is that alrge golden bell?

[Brad]

Who does that? I've seen quite a few variations of the bed of nails trick, but never anyone being hit with a sharp sword.

[Songshan]

Well, I don't have extensive knowledge in Large Golden Bell per say. I have not heard of it until now. I do want to comment on general "Qi Gong". I too was a skeptic in Qi gong until I saw it for my own eyes too. It all comes down to two factors. Physical conditioning and Mental conditioning. Noone is born with these skills. It takes months (more like years) of conditioning/training your body and mind to master it. Both must live together not just one or the other. I think a lot of you are referring to the "72 consummate arts/skills of Shaolin". This included iron shirt, iron arms, iron head, etc. etc. I have never met a master that knew all of them. There will always be some that believe in it and some that don't. I am pretty sure if someone skilled in iron head head butts you, it's going to seriously injur you. So yes these skills can be used in actual fighting situations. The bottom line is it depends on you. If you have an open mind search yourself. If you have a closed mind then dismiss it and move on.

[Enforcer-]

Originally posted by Buddy
"Bruce Lee never backed down from a challenge."

Why are you discussing dead actors? What did Tim tell you about gold bell cover, enfo?
Wan't it: "Large Golden Bell" isn't a lost art. There isn't now nor has there ever been any method of making the body impenetrable to edged weapons. These kinds of fantastic stories were made popular in the "martial hero" novels of a century ago."

because you brought him up and said he's only an actor. he had some documented fights (wong jack man comes to mind who was one of Northern Shaolin's succesors and current grabdmasters) and was the first person to promote and bring together mma methology of training. Basically what the mma events in the 90s did to many tmartists bruce lee and his students were doing in the 60s and 70s.

[Buddy]

"Who is to say what can happen and what can't happen. "

Well I'll risk it. You can't develop, through qigong, the ability to withstand a legitimate slice or stab by a sharp edged weapon.

"Another way to look at it is, Do you believe in the bible? or Buddhism, etc. if so saving oneself from a knife wound is cake."

Logic eludes you. The bible is a book and buddhism is a universaly recognized system of thought. Both easily verifiable as existing. Saving ones self with cake is not.

"Beleive it or not. I have seen masters take hits as I said in one of my posts. I have no reason to lie, nor is it in my nature to want to promote fantasy."

I understand you believe what you see. I also understand that this alleged skill is useless in real combat. Seems to me training to hit the other guy better would serve you to a greater degree.

"But I undrestand you. I was the same way until I did see it with my own eyes. The thing is you don't believe what you can't understand."

Don't condecend to me, boy. You don't know me or know what I know. What I've seen would turn your nuts into raisins.

"Do you believe wind can kill you? do you beleive wind can push over a house? Do you see wind as you would see the water in the ocean? what holds the planes and birds in the sky?"

You're not serious, right?

"So if one understands and learns the true secret of nature. one would see the wind as we would see the ground we walk on. thus we could walk on it."

Thus? Are you smoking a clove cigarette and wearing patchouly as you type?

"There are so many mysteries, in ancient ideas and training. even though we are so advanced we lost our root with nature. So I see it as the more we gain the more we lose, unless we preserve."

Clearly you're not an economist.

[Enforcer-]

Originally posted by IronFist
Even if that stuff did work, have you ever seen anyone use it in combat? What good is protection if you have to charge up your qi and be standing in a certain position for it to work?

bragging rights?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

a clear demonstration of your lack of understanding of the entire concept. To be frank, I'm not convinced on the LGB myself, but am certainly considering all information on it and without more information and clips and some practice / training the skill, as opposed to dribbling about it, would never like to commit to saying it was BS.

In small gloden bell, the breathing techs you use, after time, become a natural habit, and particularly when in public or in a combat situation. Just like as an external practicing maer walks down the street his body and awarenesses adapt to his own training.


Once you aware of qi, and more so for vigilant qigong practioners, this too, is beyond a habit and more a daily awareness we carry throughtout our day. THere is no "power up" because really, because of the nature of the training, you 're "powered up" anyway, like a trained muscle doesn't need to "powered up " , it's just going to work because it was trained to.

Because of my internal trainings, when I hear gongfu, I also hear qigong . To use this skill practically is superimposition of it with the rest of your arsenal and part of using the majority of it.. I 'm probably not literating that so well but I can guarantee you Buddy, if you were here and I'd gladly take you up ;)

Ego

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Enforcer-
bragging rights?

Fair enough. But it still isn't helpful in a fight unless, before your enemy attacks you, you go "hold on, let me get in the right pose and charge my qi up. I'll tell you when you can hit me."

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

3.2

Buddy,

"Why are you discussing dead actors?"

You're an actor also. Guess you've got to die before people would bother talking about you. But till then keep your ma credentials to yourself.

[Buddy]

"wong jack man comes to mind who was one of Northern Shaolin's succesors and current grabdmasters"

Wong beat him.

"To use this skill practically is superimposition of it with the rest of your arsenal and part of using the majority of it.. I 'm probably not literating that so well but I can guarantee you Buddy, if you were here and I'd gladly take you up"

No, in typical fashion, you're not. And that's bold talk from an internet keyboard warrior. Easy to boast when you know you won't have to back it up.


"You're an actor also."

No, I'm not. I did, as a job, portray historical personages. Now I'm a real estate investor. Even though you know that, you still insist on playing the fool. And you're not even acting.

Tim was right about GBC.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Buddy,

Go to the JKD forum and people there will say that Bruce beat Wong. why is that?

[Songshan]

Originally posted by Buddy
"Who is to say what can happen and what can't happen. "

Well I'll risk it. You can't develop, through qigong, the ability to withstand a legitimate slice or stab by a sharp edged weapon.

"Another way to look at it is, Do you believe in the bible? or Buddhism, etc. if so saving oneself from a knife wound is cake."

Logic eludes you. The bible is a book and buddhism is a universaly recognized system of thought. Both easily verifiable as existing. Saving ones self with cake is not.

"Beleive it or not. I have seen masters take hits as I said in one of my posts. I have no reason to lie, nor is it in my nature to want to promote fantasy."

I understand you believe what you see. I also understand that this alleged skill is useless in real combat. Seems to me training to hit the other guy better would serve you to a greater degree.

"But I undrestand you. I was the same way until I did see it with my own eyes. The thing is you don't believe what you can't understand."

Don't condecend to me, boy. You don't know me or know what I know. What I've seen would turn your nuts into raisins.

"Do you believe wind can kill you? do you beleive wind can push over a house? Do you see wind as you would see the water in the ocean? what holds the planes and birds in the sky?"

You're not serious, right?

"So if one understands and learns the true secret of nature. one would see the wind as we would see the ground we walk on. thus we could walk on it."

Thus? Are you smoking a clove cigarette and wearing patchouly as you type?

"There are so many mysteries, in ancient ideas and training. even though we are so advanced we lost our root with nature. So I see it as the more we gain the more we lose, unless we preserve."

Clearly you're not an economist.

I think the point here is that Qi gong is far more deeper than breaking bricks or bamboo over your head. There is a spiritual side to Qi gong not just the physical side. A spiritual side that is only important to the one who is practicing it. It's hard to turn non-believers into believers. Martial arts is not just about winning a fight. Having the fastest hands and the fastest feet is really not important. You win most of your fights with your mind rather than your fists. This is a concept you fail to see. The point about the masters displaying unspeakable feats of Qi gong is that most of them are humble but can kill you with one blow. So your gonna question whether Qi gong is "combat effective"? You seem like a huge skeptic for someone who studies internal arts.

[Enforcer-]

Wong beat him.

bs, it was a tie at best and wong started running away half way through the match. If Bruce truly lost he wouldnt be teaching and we wouldnt know his name.

[norther practitioner]

:rolleyes:

Cause either of you were there.

[Buddy]

Since those two jackazses are gone I've got no bone to pick. I'll address your comments without vitriol. I'm going to leave the Bruce Lee stuff alone because I don't care. I will say I know people who were there, and the Chinese newspapers of the time bear this out.


"I think the point here is that Qi gong is far more deeper than breaking bricks or bamboo over your head. There is a spiritual side to Qi gong not just the physical side. A spiritual side that is only important to the one who is practicing it. It's hard to turn non-believers into believers."

You're preaching to the choir here. I have had some very unusual things happen as a direct result of practicing neigong. This spiritual business of neigong is very important to me, more so than fighting.

"Martial arts is not just about winning a fight."

Yes, it is. The very term defines it. You're not talking about just martial arts and to that degree, I concur.

"Having the fastest hands and the fastest feet is really not important. You win most of your fights with your mind rather than your fists. This is a concept you fail to see."

Ah, here you condescend. You have no idea about what I know or don't know. You cannot and should not infer one thing as a result of reading another.

"The point about the masters displaying unspeakable feats of Qi gong is that most of them are humble but can kill you with one blow."

Most? You should get out more. This is the stuff of martial novels. Read Masters and Methods by Robert Smith. Most of the
"masters" in that book were quite cokky (man, this board censors everything so I have to mispell it) and self absorbed. I think that is a healthy attitude for someone who makes their living as a martial arts fighter or teacher. There are very few Kwai Chang Kaines out there.

"So your gonna question whether Qi gong is "combat effective"? You seem like a huge skeptic for someone who studies internal arts."

Ah the key word is seem. You create a vision in your mind of who I am and what I "seem" and react to that. I can't respond to your idea of who I am. If you'd like to know, just ask.

My issue here was this nonsense that gold bell cover would keep you from being harmed by edged weapons. That's just stupid and should not be tolerated.

[David Jamieson]

:rolleyes: to this thread, lol, it has totally gone off track.

There are still in practice, Yoga, Dhayana exercises and Qigongs that help one to regulate blood flow.

Herodotus wrote of how the scythians were stopped at India and became mystified at the abilities of their opponents to stop blood flow to a wound they had inflicted. There were utterly amazed at this. Everything they had thought to be true about warfare was chugged in their faces. They ended their expansion and shortly after their encounters with the east, they dissappeared and became all the other peoples we know them as now, the rus, the vikngr, and others.

Now, while this is not Large Golden Bell as propogated by Master Ku and his teachers and others of his time and later. He was a notable master of it though and was said to have demonstrated small and large golden bell on occasion as well as his kungfu and Iron palm skills. the effects of this type of training are similar and could easily be construed by a later generation to mean something other than what it is. It is easy to think that if you could stop blood flow to a wound, then you have reveresed whatever damage the bladed weapon may have inflicted. IN the meantime, the effect is temporary and you still need to heal that area.

anyway, i digress.

I do think that LGB is taught by Lam Kwoon though. And Iron body skills are available from many good sources. There simply are a great deal of martial practitioners out there who are in no way part of the mainstream martial arts culture like the rest of us. They for the most part can't be bothered to write a book or open a public kwoon or "sell" their art form in anyway. So, it is impossible to say whether or not the full teachings are or are not available to be passed down. who knows?

[NorthernShaolin]

Buddy is right about the BL and WJM fight.

People who understand the Chinese Culture and the traditional way of how the Chinese think realize what really happen by judging what occurred shortly after the match. They do not have to be there to understand what really happen in the fight.

In traditional Chinese Culture, in order to "save face" one does certain things to recover his face in the Chinese community.

1. You close your school.
2. You change your style.
3. You leave the area.

As someone who understands the Chinese Traditional Culture, it is very clear to me what happen.

History has it that the Chinese community accepted what has occurred and also accepts the fact that both men have equally contributed greatly to the TCMA comminuty. Enough is said.

Case Close.

[Buddy]

"It is easy to think that if you could stop blood flow to a wound, then you have reveresed whatever damage the bladed weapon may have inflicted."

Well that's a big if. If I slice your femoral artery you'll bleed out in minutes, GBC or not.

[David Jamieson]

well, we're slicing hairs now. lol

If you can regulate bloodflow, there's a lot of damage you could live through. Of course slicing through arteries or piercing the heart would be lethal as ever, but in sword fighting, most of the damage is to the arms, shoulders and chest.

I suppose occaisionally a shooter swordsman may go for the legs.
:D

Iron body skills build on and improve the bodies already strong and innate defensive systems. Not sure how much of the training is left and whos got it and whos getting it only what I read.

...anyway