Handling the close range threat

[YongChun]

Ok, here's the scenario, this foul mouthed guy is coming towards you. You tell him in some strong words to keep away. There are a few onlookers who like to keep their distance. He keeps walking towards you with his hands at his side, no weapons in sight. So do you attack him and risk an assault charge? Or do you wait to see what happens and get punched from close range with the ganster type low uppercut to the groin or stomach or even a head shot or knee? The dilema is that if you attack first, you got an assault charge. He is not making any physical threats. If you wait then you might get hit real good. If you attack him, what would you attack him with?

[Big Vern]

Calm + stop guard up to maintain distance, give him loud + assertive order STOP THERE NOW!, if he continues you have 2 options:
1. turn and run.
2. fast attack step forward rear hand power punch into jaw, follow up with punch bombing and knees.
Can all be justified in a caught of law beacause you gave him a direct and clearly defined warning.
This is what I teach on Personal Safety/Personal Defence courses utilising the Wing Tchun Method combined with Confrontation Control Tactics.

[hunt1]

Can all be justified in a caught of law beacause you gave him a direct and clearly defined warning

Maybe in England. In US you are off to jail and your attorney will sort it out later if you are lucky and the ADA is a nice guy and if the guy you hit isnt hurt and he doesnt want to press charges. Not to mention the civil suit. You may win or the suit gets dismissed but it will still cost you $2500 to $5000 in legal fees

Ankle step or instep sweep so much better. Noone will see and you just slipped as he came forward so you dont know what happened either

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey there,
A guy came up to me when I lived downtown almost exactly what you said except that he was really drunk (stumbling). Because he looked so off balance I wasn't too worried and pressed his elbow into his body told him I didn't want to fight and he walked away. No big deal.

To be honest, if he didn't appear to be as drunk and his balance seemed to be intact, I probably would have started to hit him.

Just to add a side note, I'm not a tough guy and my confidence is not at a level where I would let someone come up to me within hitting range while he's telling me what he liked to do to me ;)

Personally I think that if the police aren't right there, the chances of you getting caught are pretty slim

J

[Jeff Bussey]

Sorry just read the last part

Not sure what I'd attack him with. It really depends.
It's probably easier to say what I wouldn't attack him with.

[Tom Kagan]

When in doubt, empty the entire magazine.


(I'm not joking.)

[KingMonkey]

Or do you wait to see what happens and get punched from close range with the ganster type low uppercut to the groin or stomach or even a head shot or knee?
Of course not, this is basic stuff.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 and all that.

Big Vern is right, classic blitz defence/bouncer approach is best.
Maintain distance with a physical fence and clear verbals stating non aggressive intent, "I dont want to fight, I dont want any trouble".

When he crosses the fence the first time move back and clearly restate your non aggressive intent, if he crosses again it's time to defend yourself.

You've not been stupid enough to let him get close, you've demonstrated to onlookers his aggressive intent and your non-aggressive intent. You may get in trouble with the law later but you've given yourself a good chance of getting away with it and it's much better than risking getting shiv'd or sucker punched and then having the guy play football with your head.

[Ernie]

A) he can only get close enough to harm you if you sit there and wait for him if that is the case you’re a ******* and deserve to get dropped , use your foot work maintain distance don't try be a ‘’man’’ and hold your ground
B) I would and have just faded back if he continued in and people have I hit them with a nice quick low line thigh kick[ happens to be something I’m very good and trust in ] this crumples them and inflicts enough pain that they can’t run or come after me and I still maintain distance . I won’t put knuckles to the grill unless it’s serious since punching some one can cause real damage [ kill him you don’t know if he has a medical condition ] and you have now put yourself in a violent encounter and drawn attention [what if he has friends and your to focused on the one guy that you get blindsided ], let some one get close enough to hurt you and committed to a war . for me this a all or nothing commitment and I’m not stopping until what ever is in front of me is down or I’m down , knowing this I would not go there unless I really had to
C) Side note if your going to hit him don’t be telegraphed act like a victim , lie with your posture , then surprise him with an attack , don’t get all huffy stick out your chest and tell him your coming , this will bring his awareness up , and remember the dude might be mental , sick , or high , bone on bone pain infliction usually lets you know what your facing , the pain factor shuts normal people down if you rip a good shin to the upper thigh and the dude is still coming , put on your running shoes and blaze , or look for an equalizer , rock , car antenna , throw your girl friend at him =):D :D

[YongChun]

Originally posted by Ernie
the pain factor shuts normal people down if you rip a good shin to the upper thigh and the dude is still coming , put on your running shoes and blaze , or look for an equalizer , rock , car antenna , throw your girl friend at him =):D :D

Hi Ernie,

Any good reason for the upper thigh as opposed to the side of the knee or the lower leg?

Ray

[Ernie]

Originally posted by YongChun
Hi Ernie,

Any good reason for the upper thigh as opposed to the side of the knee or the lower leg?

Ray


We are talking about 2 different concepts
Line and point

A line the thigh kick covers a wider area and range

The Point

A specific point attack the knee / ankle

Requires a higher degree of skill and timing pin point accuracy if you will

When you’re in a street confrontation it is hard enough to keep your wits about add In trying to have pin point placement and your risk to reward ratio goes way up

With a thigh kick your using [ dumb less skilled ] way but it’s safer [ if you have developed this tool to a efficient degree ] it can knock out both legs [ I have kicked out wing chun guys horse stances many times , which is a fairly stable stance a person just walking towards you is far less stable .
Also I have used the front leg knee shot if you’re not off angle the guys momentum might bring him crashing down on you while you’re on one leg ,
The thigh kick is on a slight angle this knocks him away from your COG

Any tool can be inserted , if you kick his knee you might break his leg a good thing yes but know there are medical bills , if you just drop him with pain infliction then he will be fine after the leg stops cramping and all is good

A term called injure to degree comes to mind

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by YongChun
Ok, here's the scenario, this foul mouthed guy is coming towards you. You tell him in some strong words to keep away. There are a few onlookers who like to keep their distance. He keeps walking towards you with his hands at his side, no weapons in sight. So do you attack him and risk an assault charge? Or do you wait to see what happens and get punched from close range with the ganster type low uppercut to the groin or stomach or even a head shot or knee? The dilema is that if you attack first, you got an assault charge. He is not making any physical threats. If you wait then you might get hit real good. If you attack him, what would you attack him with?


Walk out the hot spot and count five steps. if he follow you for next 4 steps then run as fast as you can or take him out.

[sihing]

Yeah, in the States I would imagine that the fact that you may get sued or something would make a few people hesitant to attack first. This is a good question, and I like the responses so far. Yelling at them, telling them to stay away is definitely the first thing, having the hands up (sorta Thai style) with the hands further extended so he wouldn't be able to get to close would be good too. Like Ernie said, you have to determine quickly if this is real or not and assess the situation quickly like if he has a weapon and/or friends hanging around. You should also try to stay to the side of the person if possible instead of standing square on with them, this way he would initially have only one hand/arm and leg close to you use efficiently, and you could control his elbow easier from this position. In today's world there is rarely a fair situation when it comes to things like this, and even where I live in Calgary (supposed to be safe in Canada) we have stabbings every weekend pretty well, so in any street confrontation today that I would get in, once it started the person would have to be taken down pretty good, but I wouldn't stomp on him repeatedly if he was grounded. As for the getting charged or sued thing, unless they know your name they would have to catch me first and I can run pretty fast, lol, but since I would not use a weapon against a weaponless person, and they used one against me (since this is the trend today) then they would have the explaining to do not me.

James

[brody]

I have a few friend who are cops (here in the US) and they all say... Act like the victim. Put your hands up in a non agressive way (also to protect yourself if they actually come close enough to attack) and clearly say, "I don't want to fight, I didn't do anything to you, I don't want any trouble." From the senerio, there are witnesses watching who should hear what you are saying and see that you are the victim. At the same time, move, back up and try and keep your distance. Now, if he keeps approaching and does get close enough to you....drop the guy! If the cops happen to show up continue to play the victim and let them know that you didn't want to fight and that he was the aggressor. 9 out of 10 times the cops will side with you, the victim. Plus, you have witnesses all saying that the other person came after you and that you were just protecting yourself. I hate to sterotype, but chances are the aggressor will look like a punk ass who deserves a good ass beating.

Now this is only what I've been told by cops here in California. It could be different in other states and I'm sure in other countries.

[Tydive]

1. Use verbal skills to defuse.
2. Break distance as the potential attacker is incoming.
3. Try to get objects between you and the attacker.
4. Determine intent and respond accordingly. (Judgement is key).

I avoid delivering blows to the head, and hits to the jaw are a really bad idea. If it does get physical then my objective is to take the guy down as quickly and with as little damage to either of us as possible. I have a few arm bars and attacks to the legs and/or arms that tend to work.

If I do have to hit someone I try for centerline sternum to belly area, then transition to some lock or another on the return. The objective of the strike is to make them tense up so the lock will work better. I don't really care if the stike hurts them or not, it just needs to shock them. Never rely on pain to stop a fight.