View Full Version : Is Shaolin-Do for real?
well i do goju ryu so i think it would be lol
we dont lick high in goju ryu since it came from south china largely
however ive done taekwondo and train with a taeknwondo master so its more of a high taekwondo kick actually
it was also a means to demonstrate my balance felxibilty and skill
are you the one wearing shin pads to protect your p ussy shins lol jk
Tensei85
05-12-2009, 05:19 PM
Sweet JP! Even though its just pics I can tell you have decent body mechanics. Thanks for putting them up.
Yao Sing
05-12-2009, 05:28 PM
we dont lick high in goju ryu since it came from south china largely
however ive done taekwondo and train with a taeknwondo master so its more of a high taekwondo kick actually
it was also a means to demonstrate my balance felxibilty and skill
I don't kick high because I'm getting old but if you wanted to show off balance and flexibility another foot higher would have impressed me.:cool:
Tensei85
05-12-2009, 05:34 PM
No offense so take it for what its worth but if you were demonstrating your balance, flexibility and skill then I've seen better coming from 5 year old kids in China or even America for that. Kudos on putting them up however but I wouldn't tute your horn at the moment.
kwaichang
05-12-2009, 05:40 PM
Well Go Ju you do have decent flexibil;ity. I unfortunately lost some of mine a year or two ago however I can say that at 48 years old I had a full side split and more and bilateral front split . I now haVE A LEFT FRONT SPLIT AND AND AM VERY CLOSE TO THE RIGHT FRONT SPLIT MY SIDE SPLIT IS LACKING SOMEWHAT AT 165 DEGREES but thanks JP for the praise KC
Tensei85
05-12-2009, 05:46 PM
I agree, you have decent skills by all accounts don't get me wrong but its nothing to be awe struck about in the least. Again kudos for the pics.
uh huh you just expected me to be some fat kid with a power rangers shirt swinging foam nunchuks around didnt you lol sorry to disapoint
actually i would toot my own horn being thats a perfect textbook side kick something i doubt any of you could do
i can do a side split and touch my head to the floor at the same time
i can do the same in the full split and i can put both feet behind my head
Yao Sing
05-12-2009, 08:32 PM
Dang, guess I need to break out an embarrassing picture. Try not to get too hung up on the socks and highwater pants.
At 6' 2" I guess you aren't use to having to kick higher than your head.
Lmao ahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah ahahhaahhahahahahahahah
oh my ****in good click on that pick ahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha
im so sorry man but i cant help it
ahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahaaa
ohm y god lol i jsy keep laughing at this lol
pounds fists on the table
ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaahahahhahahaahhahaha
kwaichang
05-13-2009, 04:08 AM
A man puts a pic up and you laugh at it , I feel the pic of the guy in the high water pants was a better side kick than yours. There is a thing called functional flexibility and you dont seem to have it. You can stretch but you are weak at that ROM. Not only that you are rude and you seem to have missed the most important lesson to be HUMBLE A$$ KC
sean_stonehart
05-13-2009, 04:28 AM
Dang, guess I need to break out an embarrassing picture. Try not to get too hung up on the socks and highwater pants.
At 6' 2" I guess you aren't use to having to kick higher than your head.
Wow.... rockin' the sock & mastering the perm'd mullett... dang.... :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Eh... beats my exposed scalp!!!:eek:
Actually though a better example of flexibility is the pose from Tong Zi Gong you do.
Baqualin
05-13-2009, 06:29 AM
are you the one wearing shin pads to protect your p ussy shins lol jk
The guy with the shin pads is Oso and you have no idea who your saying has ***** shins.
You come on here acting like an arrogant A$$ and expect to get respect...I don't get it:confused:
BQ
Judge Pen
05-13-2009, 07:43 AM
Is it just me or does that look like a Karate sidekick? :p
Looks like a pic of Oso sparring while you ....... :D
Man I'm in a nasty mood today. :)
:D While I practice my iron face technique!
We all get hit from time to time. Fortunately, I was moving away from it or that one might have knocked me out.
Judge Pen
05-13-2009, 07:47 AM
id like to see kcs flexibilty lol that sounds interesting
is he around the same size as me
im 6 foot 2 and 220 pounds
That's about right. He may be a bit larger. I'm 6'1" and 205 lbs, and he's larger than me.
Judge Pen
05-13-2009, 07:49 AM
uh huh you just expected me to be some fat kid with a power rangers shirt swinging foam nunchuks around didnt you lol sorry to disapoint
actually i would toot my own horn being thats a perfect textbook side kick something i doubt any of you could do
Based upon your typing/spelling then yes.
But I've learned not to underestimate people. Lucky for me, I get underestimated often.
OldandUsed
05-13-2009, 07:49 AM
Actually, I thought GOJU's side kick was barely average. The foot was ****ed forward, so any hard contact would hyper-extend his ankle. And, his upper torso is leaning way too much away from the contact instead of driving through the target. We were always taught to center the force to the heel and drive it through the target, to line up the bones to make your leg a spear to go through the target and to focus your hip/shoulder through the target so as not to take away from your power/penetration/impact, but to go through the target and actually do damage. I would correct any student of mine that kicked like that. Sorry.
Judge Pen
05-13-2009, 07:56 AM
Actually, I thought GOJU's side kick was barely average. The foot was ****ed forward, so any hard contact would hyper-extend his ankle. And, his upper torso is leaning way too much away from the contact instead of driving through the target. We were always taught to center the force to the heel and drive it through the target, to line up the bones to make your leg a spear to go through the target and to focus your hip/shoulder through the target so as not to take away from your power/penetration/impact, but to go through the target and actually do damage. I would correct any student of mine that kicked like that. Sorry.
That's why it looked like a Japanese kick to me. I used to spar with some karate types and they were actually taught to focus with the knife edge of their foot with a side kick instead of the heel of the foot as we were taught in SD.
I'm not criticizing his kick from a picture. I've sparred many people with great flexibility and technique. That's a great foundation, but there is so much more than that. My flexibility has always been my weakest link, so I'm a bit jealous actually.
BTW, goju, I don't think anyone criticized your ability as much as your knowledge and attitude.
Finally, for the record, I would not describe Oso as a *****. The man has skill and great timing and fighting instinct. He is one of the better people I've had the pleasure to cross hands with in my time. And because goju probably doesn't know, he is not, nor has he ever been, an SD person.
sean_stonehart
05-13-2009, 07:59 AM
Actually, I thought GOJU's side kick was barely average. The foot was ****ed forward, so any hard contact would hyper-extend his ankle. And, his upper torso is leaning way too much away from the contact instead of driving through the target. We were always taught to center the force to the heel and drive it through the target, to line up the bones to make your leg a spear to go through the target and to focus your hip/shoulder through the target so as not to take away from your power/penetration/impact, but to go through the target and actually do damage. I would correct any student of mine that kicked like that. Sorry.
Actually it was text book in appearance... just like it had been learned/copied from a textbook. It looks very "rote" in appearance... i.e. "Well that's how it looked in the book so I need to do it that way too"...
Keanu Reeves had one of those in the Matrix when before he tools Agent Smith... but then again he had his ankle lifted by Woo Ping's wire-fu team too so he wasn't leaning as bad.
peace&love
05-13-2009, 08:01 AM
Goju's technique looks good, but I wish he would move on in regards to commenting on kung fu. He practices goju ryu, which is a very respectable style. If he wishes to continue his studies of CMA, I suggest he start with the works of Lao Tzu and spent much more time learning honesty, compassion, and HUMILITY. It is unfortunate he spends so much time on this forum with all this negativity.
Shaolin Do is far from perfect. I studied it for nearly a year and found it to be disappointing in the end like many others. Yet, I feel a lot of it goes with the teacher as with many other styles and systems. I'm sorry goju had a bad experience with the Soards, but I believe he should not spend his energy blasting people studying in completely different areas with completely different sifus. For that matter, he should not be negative in any sense if he is truly practicing a martial "art."
Yao Sing
05-13-2009, 08:16 AM
When you get done looking at the socks you'll notice the focus of the kick is on the heel, as has been mentioned. It does more damage to the target while minimizing damage to your foot.
Also, I was always taught to point the standing heel towards your target. Although I'm off a couple of degrees Goju isn't even close. Guess that's how they do it in his style.
During an in-house competition at the Temple I fought a guy who was a few inches taller. I brought my leg up, hesitated a sec but saw he wasn't going to block it so I hit him in the cheek. After, he told me since he's tall he doesn't worry about high kicks so he didn't try to block it. Totally caught him off guard.
Edit: Sean, I'm sure he'll cave if I pull out that photo! Now if someone his size could do it that would be impressive.
Judge Pen
05-13-2009, 08:42 AM
When you get done looking at the socks you'll notice the focus of the kick is on the heel, as has been mentioned. It does more damage to the target while minimizing damage to your foot.
Also, I was always taught to point the standing heel towards your target. Although I'm off a couple of degrees Goju isn't even close. Guess that's how they do it in his style.
During an in-house competition at the Temple I fought a guy who was a few inches taller. I brought my leg up, hesitated a sec but saw he wasn't going to block it so I hit him in the cheek. After, he told me since he's tall he doesn't worry about high kicks so he didn't try to block it. Totally caught him off guard.
Edit: Sean, I'm sure he'll cave if I pull out that photo! Now if someone his size could do it that would be impressive.
Re: pointing the heel: I was taught that too, but I've noticed that flexible people tend to short-cut that part of the kick.
humbleman
05-13-2009, 08:58 AM
...this surely proves the benefits of Shaolin-Do. Bottomless stamina! :eek:
Yao Sing
05-13-2009, 09:56 AM
Re: pointing the heel: I was taught that too, but I've noticed that flexible people tend to short-cut that part of the kick.
Pointing the heel turns the hips so that the striking foot hits with the heel. It helps prevent hitting with too much of the toes which could hyper-extend the foot and damage the ankle. Can't fight if you can't stand (expect for BJJ I guess).
Judge Pen
05-13-2009, 10:03 AM
Pointing the heel turns the hips so that the striking foot hits with the heel. It helps prevent hitting with too much of the toes which could hyper-extend the foot and damage the ankle. Can't fight if you can't stand (expect for BJJ I guess).
I agree 100%. It also opens the hips up and allows a larger range of motion. I've just noticed that a lot of people who are flexible get relaxed on this point (probably because they don't have to open their hips to get a certain range of motion).
lol well why dont you post a p ic of you doing a side kick kwai
why do i ge the feeling you cant ? and i notice you failed to comment on tha horrendously ugly jab that was being thrown in that sparring pic lol
the guys feet were planted together to close and he was leaning in to far what school teaches that
if pen moved otut the way that guy woulda fell on his face lol
oh as far as the knife edge for the side kick ive seen south chinese kung fu guys use it like that as well i fact wing lam demonstrated in one of his hungar videos and i saw another hung gar master use it ina kung fu tai chi special on hung gar s i guess we got the knife edge side kick from kung fu
however i prefer to do both
and if any of you had any brain cells you would know that you aim the knife edge side kick ay t soft target areas not hard one otherwise youd destroy your ankle duh!
and i was laughing at the gut for his pipi long stocking hair not the kick
functional flexibilty lmao yeah thats what i always hear stiff people say who cant do the slipts
why i do have too i have functinal flexiblity lol
i wann see your pics kwai in fact id like to see you do a side kick as high as mine
school be in this functioal flexibility lol
Old Noob
05-13-2009, 03:04 PM
I agree 100%. It also opens the hips up and allows a larger range of motion. I've just noticed that a lot of people who are flexible get relaxed on this point (probably because they don't have to open their hips to get a certain range of motion).
I agree with both of you. I'm fairly flexible forward and backward (and I mean fairly) but have lots of trouble with side-split-like activities. I agree with all that was said about the additional power generation and the correct striking surface associated with pointing the planted heel at the target. Plus, that let's me get a little higher. Fortunately, I'm 6'5" so I can kick head height on most people despite my inflexibility. Remember Kareem Abdul Jabar's side kicks in the Bruce Lee movie. Not flexible for Kareem, but easily head high on Bruce.
kwaichang
05-13-2009, 04:55 PM
I will tell you all where he got his side kick form it was from a pic of Bruce Lee I have seen it many times even the hands are in the smae position. As far as side kicks I assure you prior to my back injury my flexibility and kicks would cut you in half , unfortunately I am still rehabing and getting my flexibility back.
The keage or knife edge is used in snapping kicks such as Yoko Keagi Geri the heel is used in Yoko kekomi Geri or side thrist one should practice both in case you need it. KC
god what a tard bruce lee was highly influenced by the kicks of taekwondo while he was freinds with grandmaster jhoon rhee in fact jeet kune do kicks are just taekwondo style leg techniques and since ive studied taekwondo well hmmm where did i get it from lol
oh sure the back injury gotcha
hey i got a funny question there suppose to teach iron body in shaolin do so why are those to using protection? shouldnt oso have iron shin?
kareem was quite agile for a man that big i was impressed
Yao Sing
05-13-2009, 05:54 PM
Hey with the hair comment, it's not like it's a current picture or anything. That was back in the mid 80's. Everyone had hair like that in those days. You should see what it looked like in the mid 70's. :)
Yeah, the knife edge sidekick to the soft targets. Hope you don't miss or fight a guy that moves around. :D
BTW, Oso is not in the SD camp and neither am I. Not everyone that posts on this thread is associated with SD.
really post the 70s one lol
no i thought your kick was good
well either way again thats saying alot about pen and shaolin do getting hit with the ugliest punch ive ever seen in my life lol
well it depnds how i use it if im just using pure goju ryu w edont kick higher than the waist to its hard to miss kicks when you aim them at the person core and legs but if use taekwondo you got to be more careful because your legs go up so much higher
bt ii can lick equally as good with both legs and because im flexible i can fire them real fast to be honest the side kicks the only kick i dont think ive ever missed lol its my favorite kick to throw
kwaichang
05-13-2009, 06:15 PM
The pose that was shown was not the impact time of a tae kwon do kick unless you are a retard. The hip rolls over more and the heel is the impact point . BTW bruce lee was a friend of Jhoon Rhee but since I have met and know JR personally I do know that bruce did not get his kicks from him he in fact was a student and collegue of Chuck Norris and learned his kicks from him for the most part as far as Korean style kicks were concerned. Yes I have been rehabing my back and hips for a while it has really hampered my training. You are a real jerk and your attitude sucks. I still say you have no power and and cant kick effectively higher than your own butt. Truth hurts dont it?? KC
this just shows your a moron chuck norris is perhaps one the lousiest martial artist in the world to say that bruce lee would take anything from tha crack pot is immensely laughable lol the morn dosnt een say he does taekwondo or tangsoo doo he calls it karate
and the hell was the impact point in that photo anybody can clearly see that as far as your hip roll its a bogus as your functional flexibilty lol
i dnt throw it ful force because you dotn throw full force kick in the air i lifted my leg and extended it and held it long enough for a picture to be taken
again wheres your pics kwai blow me away with your kicks
and i recal reading an interview a few years back with jhoon rhee where he says when him and bruce trained together he showed him different kicks
uh huh and yet you dont explain how you can possibly see how i have no power by looking at a photo lol nor have you explained your functional flexibilty either
in fact like the other sd people here you cant back up anything you say i have
i dont see any of you outside of judge showing pics i wonder why and his were mediocre at best
THIS RIGHT HERE JUST PROVES KWAI IS A LIAR AND A DOSNT KNOW JHOOON
hers a direct quote from the man in an inter view
"at the time he had almost no idea of kicks, while his hand techniques were good. by the way he had a chance too see me kick and break woods with ajumpinh licks and was much impressed by it. it was the fist time he saw such a kick. from that time on we became good freinds and he learned taekwondo kicking from me and i leanred hand techniques from him"
god it feels so good to alwasy be right
kwaichang
05-13-2009, 06:45 PM
You make more money when you say you know Bruce Lee. You are about as right as Rain KC
lmao just admit your full of it and dont know what your talking about lol
kwaichang
05-13-2009, 06:52 PM
Optimal AROM of the hip is 45 deg in Abduction., with the total of both hips the maximal power is reached at 90 degrees or parallel with the floor every 10 degrees greater creates a loose pack position of the hips. to generate more power at higher ranges the hip has to roll over thus creating more thrust utilizing the gluteus maximus and hamstring and quadriceps , you were not demonstrating the utilization of the larger muscle groups while kicking therefore the Biomechanics were not there . You therefore had no power. Of any consiquence. You are a young argumentativwe moron who has little or no knowledge of the biomechanics of the body for power or the physics associated with it. go buy a new G string and quit MA , you are a joke. KC
uh huh and you know all that by looking at a photo have you ever been kicked by me? like i told you only an idiot throws power kicks in the air thats how you damage your joints i put no power in that kick whatso ever i just raised it and extended it
bu then again you can cut people in half with your kicks
AND AGAIN WHY WONT YOU POST YOUR PICS?
its funny you must not be much of a martial artist to be gettinga ll these injuries and you think with the chi gung they teach at sd youd be fine
and why do you continually think your age makes you any better than me? the fact that after all this supposed traing you settled with shaolin do shows you havent leanred a **** thing lol
and the fact that you use your age shows you know nothing your skill should speak alone or lack thereof
by the way wheres your pics?
kwaichang
05-13-2009, 07:51 PM
No come back huh is that the best you can do, come on you can do better than that Mawhahahahahahahahahahahhahaha as you say Dip KC one injury in 38 years not bad
Tensei85
05-13-2009, 07:55 PM
Somehow i think this thread is going to end very bad! but i still say you can't judge a person by what style they choose to practice or can relate too. I've met people that were in so called unsuperior forms of martial arts that could wipe the floor with most and then I've met people that were in so called "top secret" systems that couldn't fight to save there life.
it comes down to one of several things:
Maybe certain people are looking for different things besides just fighting skills (for instance a philosophy they can relate to, a hobby, health etc...)
You can't judge a system by the few representatives that you've met, you have to delve deeper into the theories and mechanics of the system to understand the formulas.
No one has the all answers of Martial Arts know how, we are all on the same path formulating as we go.
Lastly who's perspective can we actually use to rate which forms of Martial Arts are more superior than others? The truth is that its an illusion superiority never existed in the first place it was only a way for us to differentiate ourselves or make ourselves special and everyone else is "tv dinners"
That becomes an attachment and limits your growth by all dimensions.
No come back huh is that the best you can do, come on you can do better than that Mawhahahahahahahahahahahhahaha as you say Dip KC one injury in 38 years not bad
wel its true and you still wont post your pics i wann see a lick that can cut some one in half
i posted them wheres yours
since you seem to be so knowledgeable about how a kick is thrown weres yours
i think people here wanna see it kwai
the fact that you keep avoiding it shows your a fraud gee what asuprise and you know shaolin doh whoda thunk it
you can see it as whatever you want and if it makes you happy go nust however as i said again and again its not shaolin and sont have the right to call it self so
**** no picks again? shucks!
tick tock tick tock tick tock
its funny how you cant talk stuff but cant prove your capable yourself of doing it
i know youll never post you pics kwait because your a delusioned old man whos watched kung fu one two many times and injury sparked from alack of training
prove me wrong old boy prove me wrong if your pic isnt up by tomorrow youve shown that you talk out of your nether hole
For a little while there earlier today and yesterday, I thought we were all going to start getting along.
BTW, Sean: love your avatar. Six Demon Bag, sensational. What's in it, Egg?
i know with all this arguing what would baby jesus say
oh right
shut up kwai lol
kwaichang
05-14-2009, 03:52 AM
Go Ju are you really as dumb as you act, the only pics I have is when I was 17 or 16 years old, prob not interested, So. as you say I am old I am not , but I do know a spoiled little boy when I meet one. Most are rude inconsiderate and disrespectful and you fit most of those and more. And I will use a quote from a movie to respond to your request "my skills are not there to impress you". So say what you want and take my word for it. Because that is all you deserve. KC:):D
sean_stonehart
05-14-2009, 04:37 AM
BTW, Sean: love your avatar. Six Demon Bag, sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Wind... fire... all that kind of thing!!
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 05:59 AM
Wind... fire... all that kind of thing!!
I want one of those:)
MasterKiller
05-14-2009, 06:08 AM
Honestly, who cares about pictures of kicks or splits? Is this 1989?
You want to prove something, then put up a youtube video of a form, some bag work, some sparring....something that shows how you move.
All a picture proves is you know how to pose well.
OldandUsed
05-14-2009, 06:19 AM
Tensei85....
I agree 100%. That is the way I was taught and it is how my students are taught. Unfortunately, one of the things missing in many of today's practicioners. But then, if you do not respect yourself, you cannot respect others. That makes you a simple brawler, not a martial artist.5216
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 07:02 AM
Honestly, who cares about pictures of kicks or splits? Is this 1989?
You want to prove something, then put up a youtube video of a form, some bag work, some sparring....something that shows how you move.
All a picture proves is you know how to pose well.
D@mmit you stoled my thunder.:cool:
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 07:15 AM
Ok Cujo here's the deal.....this is turned into a p!ssing contest....everyone can post all the posey pictures they want....that is not a proof of skill (Yao yours was impressive)....it doesn't show how you move and if your utilizing the principles of the art.....anybody can pose for a picture and look like Jet Li.....a lot of people can do the splits, I have a female student who can turn her body inside out....what does that prove? She's limber....hell I'm 55 years old and can throw a reverse smash landing in full splits on both sides....so what, I worked on it.....doesn't make me Chung lee or even better than you.
Nobody here really questions your skill only your mouth.....I hope you train hard and achieve your goals....maybe you can become a great MMA someday.......first you need to learn a little respect.....you come on here like a pompous A$$ spouting out sh!t that you really have no idea about....you base everything on your experience with a school that we have no respect for as well. You don't know us or how we train....you don't know GM Sin or any of the real SD masters. How long did you actually train with the Soards anyway? If you don't like something....find something you do and do it.....leave the rest alone....you can't change the world to fit you.....you can make an A$$ out of yourself though (you do have that skill):D
BQ
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 07:26 AM
Somehow i think this thread is going to end very bad! but i still say you can't judge a person by what style they choose to practice or can relate too. I've met people that were in so called unsuperior forms of martial arts that could wipe the floor with most and then I've met people that were in so called "top secret" systems that couldn't fight to save there life.
it comes down to one of several things:
Maybe certain people are looking for different things besides just fighting skills (for instance a philosophy they can relate to, a hobby, health etc...)
You can't judge a system by the few representatives that you've met, you have to delve deeper into the theories and mechanics of the system to understand the formulas.
No one has the all answers of Martial Arts know how, we are all on the same path formulating as we go.
Lastly who's perspective can we actually use to rate which forms of Martial Arts are more superior than others? The truth is that its an illusion superiority never existed in the first place it was only a way for us to differentiate ourselves or make ourselves special and everyone else is "tv dinners"
That becomes an attachment and limits your growth by all dimensions.
Very well said....you have been taught well...Cujo, here's a TEXT book example of respect to all
Judge Pen
05-14-2009, 07:31 AM
the guys feet were planted together to close and he was leaning in to far what school teaches that
if pen moved otut the way that guy woulda fell on his face lol
Well first, it wasn't a jab it was a right hook. 2nd, it was a snapshot so you get one fraction of a second. I had entered, thrown a combination which he blocked well and then he quickly moved his right foot up and slid his back foot in to quickly close the distance and land his hook. It was a very nice counter. He was not off balance and wouldn't have fallen. I was retreating following my failed combo, but I didn't get my hands up in time to block the hook, but I was fortunately moving away.
Oso used to regularly host an open sparring day at his school in Asheville. I'm sure you would be welcome since you are now critiquing non SD people as well.
sean_stonehart
05-14-2009, 07:33 AM
that is not a proof of skill (Yao yours was impressive)....
BQ
Nah you want impressive ... get Yao to post up the Tong Zi Gong posture. I've seen him slide into that after him driving for X hours to pay a visit. Made me ill to see him do that like that, but in a good way watching a KF uncle.
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 07:37 AM
Well first, it wasn't a jab it was a right hook. 2nd, it was a snapshot so you get one fraction of a second. I had entered, thrown a combonation which he blocked well and then he quickly moved his right foot up and slid his back foot in to quickly close the distance and land his hook. It was a very nice counter. He was not off balance and wouldn't have fallen. I was retreating following my failed combo, but I didn't get my hands up in time to block the hook, but I was fortunatley moving away.
Oso used to regularly host an open sparring day at his school in Asheville. I'm sure you would be welcome since you are now criticing non SD people as well.
I thought it was a right hook and a snapshot and not off balance...didn't want to answer for you;)
BQ
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 07:39 AM
Nah you want impressive ... get Yao to post up the Tong Zi Gong posture. I've seen him slide into that after him driving for X hours to pay a visit. Made me ill to see him do that like that, but in a good way watching a KF uncle.
You keep prodding him maybe he will post it...I want to see:cool:
BQ
Judge Pen
05-14-2009, 07:39 AM
I thought it was a right hook and a snapshot and not off balance...didn't want to answer for you;)
BQ
Oso is a very well rounded martial artist. CMA, wrestling, jujitsu. He moves well for a guy his size and is decptively quick. I would think twice before criticizing someone you don't know that well.
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 07:44 AM
Oso is a very well rounded martial artist. CMA, wrestling, jujitsu. He moves well for a guy his size and is decptively quick. I would think twice before criticizing someone you don't know that well.
It's easy to do that on here JP.....computers don't hit back:eek:
BQ
sean_stonehart
05-14-2009, 07:50 AM
You keep prodding him maybe he will post it...I want to see:cool:
BQ
I'm trying...
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 08:04 AM
Come on Yao post it.....I don't care if your dressed like super fly...lets see it;)
BQ
I want one of those:)
I don't think you really want Sean's wind, take my word for it. I roomed with him in China.
sean_stonehart
05-14-2009, 09:39 AM
I don't think you really want Sean's wind, take my word for it. I roomed with him in China.
You have little room to speak little brother...
tattooedmonk
05-14-2009, 10:02 AM
Honestly, who cares about pictures of kicks or splits? Is this 1989?
You want to prove something, then put up a youtube video of a form, some bag work, some sparring....something that shows how you move.
All a picture proves is you know how to pose well.Thanks, exactly what I was going to post!!How do we even know it is him????
tattooedmonk
05-14-2009, 10:06 AM
....at least this knucklehead has revived this thread!!:eek::confused::rolleyes::D:cool:
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 10:25 AM
Tensei85....
I agree 100%. That is the way I was taught and it is how my students are taught. Unfortunately, one of the things missing in many of today's practicioners. But then, if you do not respect yourself, you cannot respect others. That makes you a simple brawler, not a martial artist.5216
Hey Frank,
How's life treating you;)
BQ
Lucas
05-14-2009, 10:49 AM
i dont train sd. but connecting with the heel on a sidekick is the same method we use in standard shaolin kicking.
the analogy someone use of a spear is right on. you connect with the heal, you have less in the way to absorb the force.
i always call into question any time anyone referes to themself as 'perfect'.
thats a red flag any way you look at it.
Lucas
05-14-2009, 10:56 AM
double post....
OldandUsed
05-14-2009, 11:54 AM
BQ,
How's it going? Just hanging out and doing my thing...as much as I am able. The Army broke me up a little. Glad to have made it to retirement.
Yao Sing
05-14-2009, 12:08 PM
You keep prodding him maybe he will post it...I want to see:cool:
BQ
I really need to do a better one as this was short notice. I've seen the Shaolin Monks twist into this then lift the extended foot. I usually start from standing on one leg and slip myother leg around and through as I drop down.
I also added the 70's hair pic for Goju. Everyone my age has a pic like this from the hippie days. :)
I really need to do a better one as this was short notice. I've seen the Shaolin Monks twist into this then lift the extended foot. I usually start from standing on one leg and slip myother leg around and through as I drop down.
I also added the 70's hair pic for Goju. Everyone my age has a pic like this from the hippie days. :)
70's hair pic meets my approval - very nice!
what a suprise no picks from kwai lol no ogf course pci of a kick isnt and end all to see how good you are however since my side kcik was supposed to so horrendous i want to see kwai sjow me the correct way lol
the fact that he wont shows hes all talk
okay so im the arrogant one yet kwai assumes because hes older and he automatically knows more lol
not to mention he supposedly is leaps and bounds more flexible than i am and can cut people in half with his kicks lol
outside of saying i threw a textbook side kick i have not resorted to such lunacy
certainly i beleive im beteter than any sd student but then again thats not saying much at all
i do have respect for many styles teachers etc
however i do not repect sd as a whole
like the 70s hair!
Go Ju are you really as dumb as you act, the only pics I have is when I was 17 or 16 years old, prob not interested, So. as you say I am old I am not , but I do know a spoiled little boy when I meet one. Most are rude inconsiderate and disrespectful and you fit most of those and more. And I will use a quote from a movie to respond to your request "my skills are not there to impress you". So say what you want and take my word for it. Because that is all you deserve. KC:):D
uh huh what acoincidence you havent any pics gee never would have guessed i guess well just have to rely on your word
Judge Pen
05-14-2009, 01:37 PM
certainly i beleive im beteter than any sd student but then again thats not saying much at all
Please keep thinking that. Please "beleive" that you are "beteter" than any sd student.
Lucas
05-14-2009, 01:38 PM
assuming you are better than every person from any particular style shows how much you still have to learn.
i assume anybody walking off the street to join sd is allready better than the the senoir students that have been there for years actually
and i know i dont believe
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 03:07 PM
BQ,
How's it going? Just hanging out and doing my thing...as much as I am able. The Army broke me up a little. Glad to have made it to retirement.
Yeah...I got about 6 or so years left....I'm ready right now.....least you will have great health care to get you through.....my sons got in 8 years now (airborne) and I hope he can hang in for the rest....he still wants to so far.....
Best to you,
BQ
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 03:20 PM
i assume anybody walking off the street to join sd is allready better than the the senoir students that have been there for years actually
and i know i dont believe
Glad to at least see you use the word assume.
BQ
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 03:31 PM
I really need to do a better one as this was short notice. I've seen the Shaolin Monks twist into this then lift the extended foot. I usually start from standing on one leg and slip myother leg around and through as I drop down.
I also added the 70's hair pic for Goju. Everyone my age has a pic like this from the hippie days. :)
70's pic brings back a lot of great memories.....opened it first and thought hey I know that dude;)
Really nice...thanks for posting it....would like to see you do the whole form .....like all of us you look a lot different now......we all ended up conforming to society (to a point:)) eh
Best BQ
lookin at a nice tux and am pricing wedding dresses with my fiancee lol
its good to see you still didnt keep the 70s hair or the socks lol
kwaichang
05-14-2009, 03:41 PM
Ok I think we have some one with Bipolar disorder here. How stupid is someone who has never met someone and assuming they are inept. I have no current pics I dont like cameras JP will attest to that but no matter I know what I can do and question no ones ability until I fight them. I was tought respect all and underestimate no one. Except you Go Ju cause you are an imbecile. But I suppose you might be a good dancer with a sock in your G-string TeHeheheheheh KC
the though of you picturing me with a g string makes me regret ever posting my pics
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 03:57 PM
lookin at a nice tux and am pricing wedding dresses with my fiancee lol
Hey....take all the money you guys (her parents (assuming:D) will spend on the Dress/wedding / reception) and head to the Caribbean or Australia for a month and marry there.....just the 2 of you (it's all about you guys....the rest is just show)lasts a lot longer than a few hours and you two will have memories of a lifetime...not just a moment.
Best to you & the Bride,
BQ
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 04:00 PM
Oh almost forgot.....down the road if you split, at least you will have a bunch of really cool pictures of you in paradise and not tons of wedding pic's you will never want to look at again.:D
BQ
thats a good idea ill bring it up to her weve talked about us getting married in hawaii wherever it is she wants a small wedding just her and her kids and me and my folks :)
nah shes a keeper she actually was about to ask me to marry her but i stopped her before she could start and proposed lol
kwaichang
05-14-2009, 04:08 PM
One word prenuptal agreement OOPS sorry I mean 2 words, Believe me it is a good thing to do KC
nah she has more money than me right now anyway lol
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 04:13 PM
thats a good idea ill bring it up to her weve talked about us getting married in hawaii wherever it is she wants a small wedding just her and her kids and me and my folks :)
nah shes a keeper she actually was about to ask me to marry her but i stopped her before she could start and proposed lol
Well if your man enough to take on anothers kids, your not all bad in my book....I did it with my 2nd wife (of 19 years) he's 27 now and one of my best friends....still calls me dad and will get equal share with my other 2 (boys) after I pass on. My girlfriend I'm with now has 3 young ones.....I'm getting to old to raise anymore:eek:
Best to you,
BQ
Judge Pen
05-14-2009, 04:19 PM
i assume anybody walking off the street to join sd is allready better than the the senoir students that have been there for years actually
and i know i dont believe
you can't know until you've crossed hands with them. but since you can't spell or even type in complete sentences, i'm not worried about what you think you know.
yeah lol im in my early twenties and my fiancees in her early thirties but her kids love me and all she told me she dosnt want a man to be there father but there like famaily too me so i treat them like they are my own
**** three kids lol that gots to age a man!
Judge Pen
05-14-2009, 04:23 PM
nah she has more money than me right now anyway lol
I think he meant that she should get the antinup agreement.
you can't know until you've crossed hands with them. but since you can't spell or even type in complete sentences, i'm not worried about what you think you know.
if any of you are planning on coming to colorado or virginia where ill soon be we can cross hands (just no crossing wangs lol)or if any of you are planning on fighting light heavyweight in mma?
other than that how can we
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 04:27 PM
yeah lol im in my early twenties and my fiancees in her early thirties but her kids love me and all she told me she dosnt want a man to be there father but there like famaily too me so i treat them like they are my own
**** three kids lol that gots to age a man!
I'm already aged:) I'm patient and good with kids....it's still to much for me and I don't foresee forever in this case......will end as friends and I will still see the kids.....I only study and teach the Internal side now.....it keeps me sane:)
BQ
shes not a multi million dollar heiress lol besides thats a ***** move on mans part taking his womans money
if we devorce ill just take her 88 monte carlol lol jk
I'm already aged:) I'm patient and good with kids....it's still to much for me and I don't foresee forever in this case......will end as friends and I will still see the kids.....I only study and teach the Internal side now.....it keeps me sane:)
BQ
well its easier for me too her kids are ten and twelve i think if they were toddlers my hair would have been grey allready lol
i assume anybody walking off the street to join sd is allready better than the the senoir students that have been there for years actually
and i know i dont believe
By what logic is this possible? Let's assume they learn ABSOLUTELY nothing during their tenure at SD - how is it possible for someone to get worse at martial arts? Whether or not they had any experience going in, it seems a little far fetched that they would actually get worse. By what methods outside of aging and injury do people get worse at Martial Arts, especially in your scenario, whereby the martial artist goes from being a non-practitioner to practicing something?
Oh, BTW, I'm tired of looking at all the pictures of dudes (as awesome as your 70's and 80's style was, my man). Post some pics of your fiancee, dawg.
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 04:36 PM
if any of you are planning on coming to colorado or virginia where ill soon be we can cross hands (just no crossing wangs lol)or if any of you are planning on fighting light heavyweight in mma?
other than that how can we
When you get to Virginia your close to the heart of SD.....in Charleston, WVa.
there's a school there, if you decide you want to check it out...let me know and I will give you contact with a guy that loves to touch hands (not to prove anything....just someone skilled to workout with......he fights MMA.
BQ
no way shes very very and i mean very wary about having her picture put out on the net
shes ****in sexxxxxy though man gots long black curly hair all the way down to her butt five foot one 120 pounds she fit too and shes a gear head knows all this stuff about cars and how to fix them lol
i dint see anybody improve while i was there at sd in fact all that happended was there ego got inflated to humongo sizeas they got each belt some of the most pompus muthas ive eva met were at that school
and if you think you can protect youself and you cant sheeesh you in for a rude awakining if somebody attacks you one day outta nowhere ive seen that happen before
allright baq
when i get settled ill let you know and ill let you know it would e nice to have some one i can train with too outside of a gym i have a hard time finding that
no way shes very very and i mean very wary about having her picture put out on the net
shes ****in sexxxxxy though man gots long black curly hair all the way down to her butt five foot one 120 pounds she fit too and shes a gear head knows all this stuff about cars and how to fix them lol
i dint see anybody improve while i was there at sd in fact all that happended was there ego got inflated to humongo sizeas they got each belt some of the most pompus muthas ive eva met were at that school
and if you think you can protect youself and you cant sheeesh you in for a rude awakining if somebody attacks you one day outta nowhere ive seen that happen before
allright baq
when i get settled ill let you know and ill let you know it would e nice to have some one i can train with too outside of a gym i have a hard time finding that
C'mon man, don't hold out! We need the pics! We're just all a bunch of SD losers, we can't get no ladies of our own... Plus Sean's an old perv, I know he's with me. MMmmmmmm.... I wanna see dem pics... It's like old Jack Burton always says...what the hell.
lol i want to man but i cant!!!
illsend apic of a part of her face but theres no way ill show her alltogether
im ending them to pens email let him post em when he gets em
ones of her eyes and you can some of her hair lol
the other are of her lips lol but thats all you get
there pervs
you can see shes hot just by that i think
Is it just her eyes/lips/etc? How are we supposed to know dat shiz didn't come off the google machine on the interwebz? I get skeptical when it comes to pics of sexy cougars. She cougaring on you, BTW. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Aight JP! You gotta hook us up here man!!!
lolshes cougaring on me? never thought of that she looks like shes nineteen though lol in fact i told her she was too young for me when we met then she told me i was an idiot and hse was 31 lol
in between emailing my fiancee i xcheck the sd center in va
lmao i dont see anything different than what i saw in the soards place
what is so hard about stretching people? lol thats the root of good ma
if any bofy cant lok at photos of their blacbelts and be impressed then i feel sorry for you
i meanlook at them lol
this reminds me of that remark william cheung made to all those old wing chun masters who were trying to challenge him
"it looks like you could use a work out'
in between emailing my fiancee i xcheck the sd center in va
lmao i dont see anything different than what i saw in the soards place
what is so hard about stretching people? lol thats the root of good ma
if any bofy cant lok at photos of their blacbelts and be impressed then i feel sorry for you
i meanlook at them lol
this reminds me of that remark william cheung made to all those old wing chun masters who were trying to challenge him
"it looks like you could use a work out'
Seriously? We're back on this again? I thought we'd all just let bygones be bygones and scope out your cougar in relative peace and harmony.
And WTF is this sheeyut about flexibility? It's like I told my last wife, I says "Honey, I never drive faster than I can see, and besides that, it's all in the reflexes." I was pretty hammered drunk when I said that to her, but thinking back, I find there's a lot of wisdom in those words. Who knew?
Baqualin
05-14-2009, 06:32 PM
in between emailing my fiancee i xcheck the sd center in va
lmao i dont see anything different than what i saw in the soards place
what is so hard about stretching people? lol thats the root of good ma
if any bofy cant lok at photos of their blacbelts and be impressed then i feel sorry for you
i meanlook at them lol
this reminds me of that remark william cheung made to all those old wing chun masters who were trying to challenge him
"it looks like you could use a work out'
Don't know about the Va. School....I mentioned West Va. there's plenty in the area close by to keep you busy.....MMA and more.....Oso's school might be more fun than you think.
oh yeah iw a schecking out the mma gyms and its packed lol there so many good schools to choose from i think hopefully i can find a goju dojo as well
lol what the hell are you talking about yet!?
Judge Pen
05-14-2009, 07:19 PM
if any of you are planning on coming to colorado or virginia where ill soon be we can cross hands (just no crossing wangs lol)or if any of you are planning on fighting light heavyweight in mma?
other than that how can we
What part of virginia?
Judge Pen
05-14-2009, 07:26 PM
Thanks for sending me the pics of you fiancee, but if you can e-mail them to me, you can post them here. My wife is starting to wonder why I'm getting sent pics of a woman's eyes and lips......
oh lmao sorry about that judge pen know i sent them from my cellphone lol my email is wonky right now so i can send pics and yeti was so curious about what she looked like lol
well ive asked her if she wants to stay there and she wants to move down to virginia beach so well see
lol what the hell are you talking about yet!?
Honestly I'm just trying to keep things interesting since you won't STFU and quit beating the dead horse which is your superiority over SD and how bad you hate SD. You think they suck. You think you're the isht. It's cool, I get you man, I think I'm the siht too, so at least I can understand that.
It's just getting a little tired and we're never gonna make it to 20,000 posts this way. I mean, I been reading this thread since the **** internet was invented by Alexander Graham Bell in 1492 when he sailed the ocean blue, and trust me when I say, it's been covered. But what hasn't been discussed is your cougar, and associated pics.
So let's all come together and take a look at some sweet pics of your lady, maybe some more funky 70's and 80's kung fu siht would be great too. I just hope JP doesn't try to be all mature and shti and refuse to post off-topic pics.
Thanks for sending me the pics of you fiancee, but if you can e-mail them to me, you can post them here. My wife is starting to wonder why I'm getting sent pics of a woman's eyes and lips......
lol sorry JP - don't wanna get you in trouble.
lmao i put mu fiancee on them so just tell her your freind sent you pic of his new fiancee hahahahah
**** since alexander graham bell you say!!!
aw come on you think this threads gonna die
when humans are extinct all that will be left for aliens to find is this thread lol
aw come on you think this threads gonna die
when humans are extinct all that will be left for aliens to find is this thread lol
Then I'm afraid they will likely feel justified in having vaporized us all.
and all of us are going to be on here until we are elderly lol
Yao Sing
05-14-2009, 09:40 PM
Speaking of the elderly, if you don't mind looking at grandmas then here's my sparring partner on the beach at Cozumel.
sean_stonehart
05-15-2009, 04:30 AM
Speaking of the elderly, if you don't mind looking at grandmas then here's my sparring partner on the beach at Cozumel.
Y'oughta try the beach across the channel at Playa... oh my...
Baqualin
05-15-2009, 04:49 AM
Speaking of the elderly, if you don't mind looking at grandmas then here's my sparring partner on the beach at Cozumel.
You just keep showing off...don't you.:D
OldandUsed
05-15-2009, 05:01 AM
BQ...
Hang in there, there is life after the Army. Hope you son stays the course and stays safe. God bless.
Speaking of the elderly, if you don't mind looking at grandmas then here's my sparring partner on the beach at Cozumel.
Yao Sing is setting a stunning example of the type of constructive contributions to this thread that will keep things interesting. Well done, sir! I applaud your efforts, and if I may I'd like to make a request for more from the 70's and 80's, kung fu related or not.
Beats the hell out of crap like this:
"ZOMG I onec tim e sawed a grup of SD stoodents and I beat da sheeyut outt aall of em. I hitted teh furst won and she wus onlee 10 yrs old so hse dropped lik a sak of monkee turdz an then I beatup all teh rest of the jr blak blets, man that systimn sux cuz I put teh smalkdown on there blak betls. When I lookd at teh pics on the webz, i loled in reel life cuz their a pathetical joke."
sean_stonehart
05-15-2009, 09:51 AM
Speaking of the elderly...
Make space in your in box ... :D
Tensei85
05-15-2009, 10:00 AM
Hey Yaosing,
anymore grandma's where you found that one?
tattooedmonk
05-15-2009, 10:29 AM
Yao Sing is setting a stunning example of the type of constructive contributions to this thread that will keep things interesting. Well done, sir! I applaud your efforts, and if I may I'd like to make a request for more from the 70's and 80's, kung fu related or not.
Beats the hell out of crap like this:
"ZOMG I onec tim e sawed a grup of SD stoodents and I beat da sheeyut outt aall of em. I hitted teh furst won and she wus onlee 10 yrs old so hse dropped lik a sak of monkee turdz an then I beatup all teh rest of the jr blak blets, man that systimn sux cuz I put teh smalkdown on there blak betls. When I lookd at teh pics on the webz, i loled in reel life cuz their a pathetical joke."LMAO . I like this last bit !! I feel like we have been argueing with a ten year old.
What does having the ability to hold a side thrust have to do with martial skill?? I know people that do yoga and ballet that can do that, does this mean that they are superior martial artist??
I want to see this guy in action. hell I would like to see him challenge any of the masters!!
Taht wuold b funni!!!
Tensei85
05-15-2009, 02:58 PM
LMAO . I like this last bit !! I feel like we have been argueing with a ten year old.
What does having the ability to hold a side thrust have to do with martial skill?? I know people that do yoga and ballet that can do that, does this mean that they are superior martial artist??
I want to see this guy in action. hell I would like to see him challenge any of the masters!!
Taht wuold b funni!!!
Or just post a vid of him throwing the same kick. So we can see his dynamic expression of course!
i have no clue how to post a video to tell you the truth or post aphoto if i idnt have the camera phone i wouldnt have my ppictures up at all lol
id honestly like to spar with any master of any style just to see! itd be fun!
but when shaolin do gets one let me know!
i can just make a video with a camecorder of me doing my stuff and send it to one of you guys if you want id plannd on eventually doing that anyway to get my name out there and then maybe some one can post it on youtube for me
good luck with ya boy and the army!
Yao Sing
05-15-2009, 06:39 PM
Goju, I'll post your stuff if you want to send it to me. Let me know and I'll give you my email.
Now back to some 70's stuff. My old chopper, definitely 70's style. Daughter was born in 1976 so this is late 70's. 1972 Honda CB750F,
Yao Sing
05-15-2009, 06:45 PM
And to spur some Kung Fu talk I posted this a few years ago when someone asked about using Plum Flower Poles.
I built my portable set with pvc from Home Depot and it's easy enough to make up a routine or just practice random moves. I don't have much in the way of KF video.
Have at it.
Opps, had to add it back to youtube. Don't know why it's not there anymore. Here's the new link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSQV-G3Vq0).
Can't say I haven't contributed.
now that takes some skill lol
i used to be able to balance on a brick stood vertically in the one leggged buddha praying positon but ive been lazy with that and need to get back on it
have you ever fallen on one of those poles lol i was imppressed with the pics though!
Nice pics, thank you! I think you even pacified GoJu for a minute. I like getting some martial arts photos, that's a good idea with the PVC posts. I like the 70's photo too, sweet chopper man.
kwaichang
05-16-2009, 05:45 AM
I really enjoyed the pics I like your MC I have one too but not an antique/ I am saving for an Indian I hope one day. I like the posts was that 3 or 4 inch PVC good idea though mind if I copy. ?? WEll Go Ju see we arent all inept and bad guys KC
BTW I stretched out this am at 6 45 and got the full split both right and left front sides are still a little short right now but I think I got 165 deg with my chest on the floor with the side split , just thought Go Ju might be curious not bad after an injury and at 50 yrs old.
One student
05-16-2009, 06:30 AM
1. Who remembers the posts put in the old sand volleyball area behind the Sportscenter in Lexington? About a dozen of them, 12 inch diameter, 2-4 ft off the ground (various heights) if I remember correctly. Did we not train on them wearing those homemade platform shoes, and carring the pickle buckets full of water?
2. Also: How can that be TCMA -- he's wearing khakis from JC Penney. They didn't have khaki's from JC Penney in Shaolin. Its got to be a fraud! (YS - I hope you see my tongue in cheek -- I love your form and traiing ingenuity).
kwaichang
05-16-2009, 07:25 AM
Do you have a BB no 3.95 at JC Penney HaHa KC
Tensei85
05-16-2009, 09:54 AM
Traditionally does anyone remember if there is a set number as to how many Mei Hua Jong there are supposed to be?
Baqualin
05-16-2009, 01:28 PM
And to spur some Kung Fu talk I posted this a few years ago when someone asked about using Plum Flower Poles.
I built my portable set with pvc from Home Depot and it's easy enough to make up a routine or just practice random moves. I don't have much in the way of KF video.
Have at it.
Opps, had to add it back to youtube. Don't know why it's not there anymore. Here's the new link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSQV-G3Vq0).
Can't say I haven't contributed.
Nice!!! That's just what I've been looking for.....I'm making some of those to use with my Baqua students......a lot less work than pouring concrete into flower pots and a he!! of a lot easier to put away:eek: hope you don't mind...I already have them holding postures on weighted sports balls....this will be great for their circle walking:cool:
BQ
Baqualin
05-16-2009, 01:32 PM
1. Who remembers the posts put in the old sand volleyball area behind the Sportscenter in Lexington? About a dozen of them, 12 inch diameter, 2-4 ft off the ground (various heights) if I remember correctly. Did we not train on them wearing those homemade platform shoes, and carring the pickle buckets full of water?
HAHAHAHA.....I forgot about those fuking shoes:D weight vest have replaced the buckets.
2. Also: How can that be TCMA -- he's wearing khakis from JC Penney. They didn't have khaki's from JC Penney in Shaolin. Its got to be a fraud! (YS - I hope you see my tongue in cheek -- I love your form and traiing ingenuity).
jakfjfk;jk;
kwaichang
05-16-2009, 02:10 PM
Did you guys see the post about the Lost Shaolin Temple on the Forum look at it it gives SD history some credibility as I am sure many will argue its validity. KC
Yao Sing
05-16-2009, 05:51 PM
I thought I had a list of parts because I was going to write up some instructions for the project but I can't find them anywhere.
I posted this now and originally so that others can make them for practice so run with it and be creative.
Most of the connections have been glued together so it doesn't fall apart while jumping around on them but I left thee center unglued so I can fold them up, or seperate into 2 pieces, for storage.
I'll see if I can write up the parts list and basic instructions. I'll also post video of a practice routine if anyone needs something to get started. The video I put up was just an example because someone had asked what can you do on them.
Maybe I should start building them and selling on Ebay. :D
kwaichang
05-16-2009, 06:27 PM
See I knew that would bring Go Ju out of the woodwork. It talks about the Fujien Shaolin Temple pretty interesting so Go Ju why dont you disproove the article BwaHahahahahahahah KC
lol yeah sure it does
Now now GoJu! You'd done such a good job of not antagonizing KC over the last 24 hours... Let's not backslide back into that old BS, especially when I pretty much summed it all up in that unintelligible paragraph in one of my last posts. C'mon man, you're better than that! Maybe if you say something nice to KC then he will say something nice to you and then you will have planted the seed. Maybe you should tell KC that you admire that he continues to train with such dedication at 50? A lot of guys that age have gone to seed and can't do squat for exercise, but he's sticking with it. Then maybe KC will return with something nice about you. Then we roast marshmallows.
i donr see the point lol and im called arrogant now sd is traced back to some lost temple gasp! could it be a temple from atlantis!!!!!!!
thats why sin knows 900 forms hes an devine being from the sunken civilization!!!!
i sw the article dosnt have anything to do with sd not to mention that sd dosnt even remotely resemble fukien martila arts
trust me i know goju ryu is mainly drawn from that region
wheres the marshmallows?
kwaichang
05-16-2009, 07:23 PM
THe point is that SD traces its origins to a temple in the Fujien Province a Shaolin Temple all have said the temple does not exist well thas article , if true, is an example of how SD can trace itself to the Shaolin Temple maybe not the well known one but history is skewed and I dont believe any of us have all the facts. So the more I learn the more I feel the history is 75% true. And I have spoken with GMT and have found no flaws in his "story" of SD and its history. If a person lies then the lie will bite them his story has stayed the same. It is others that have changed it not him. So I ask Go Ju to disprove the origin of SD and therefore the history of SD. He cant so he wont. no one can KC
i donr see the point lol and im called arrogant now sd is traced back to some lost temple gasp! could it be a temple from atlantis!!!!!!!
thats why sin knows 900 forms hes an devine being from the sunken civilization!!!!
i sw the article dosnt have anything to do with sd not to mention that sd dosnt even remotely resemble fukien martila arts
trust me i know goju ryu is mainly drawn from that region
wheres the marshmallows?
You don't get any goddam marshmallows! You have to be nice and pay a compliment to KC and start to get along! Until then, no one gets marshmallows! I will turn this car around and we will go back home! No dessert for you! No Christmas either! And if you can't be nice to others, I'm taking Hanukkah away too!!!! :mad:
Your not my father!!!! Ma told me i was the mail mans!!!!
i allready have how many times do i have too
firstly know one outside of sd circles even knows who the hell sin kwang the is
two it is impossible to know 900 forms i dont care if you started at the age of three forms are not taught until you have completely mastered them. look at choy lay fut for example theres around what a hundred forms and i recall a leading grandmaster of the style saying even if you start young youll be lucky if you learn the whole system so 900 lol be real here
three even on sin kwang the site the website is called sin kwang thes karate!!! DI YOU KNOW THAT!! but yet they teach shaolin........ okay
three man owns over a hundred"dojos" impossible all the quality masters only have a hand full of students this is aa classic and obvious sign of a mcdojo
and again with the uniforms and the names how would calling it shaolin do hide it from the indonesians ITS STILL CALLED SHAOLIN !!!!! lol
and know they dont wear karate like uniforms they wear tiger claw karate uniforms you can buy on a link to this site lol
the notion that they changed their names to hide it from the indonesians a lie
one they would have just taught in secret. which most kung fu masters did(they didnt exactly advertise in the phone book back in the day ya know)
and two when sin came to the united states he would have dropped the kata ippon kumite etc etc and still not be claiming it karate to this day
now im gonna check on my fiancee ill finish later
oh yes lets forget about the harry dog man kung fu master who some how was alinated from soceity yet has pictures taken of him wearing western attire
or the fact that shaolin do had forms like meteor fist and golden leopard which no ther shaolin branch even acknwoledges as beingan actual form
and add to the fact that they list xingyi tai chi pak kua as being shaoil when it is doaist lol
even you yourself admitted your only seventy percent convinced of the arts historical cliams if the arts history is rubbish then the art itself is rubbish as well
shaolin do dosnt resemble southern kung fu in the least and as has been noted before there is absolutely no proof from anybody including sin kwang the that what he teaches is shaolin. and why cant he prove that?
in fact i know for a fact they call it shaolin do so they cant be sued by the temple for being frauds because there can always be some legal jargin used to say oh no they never claimed its shaolin its shaolin DO lmao
god there are more holes in sd than swiss cheese
or yetis underwear lol
god there are more holes in sd than swiss cheese
or yetis underwear lol
I been nothing but nice to you man, despite the fact that you are raping English language grammar and style. I even tried to be nice about the fact that you sound like a broken fuking record with this ish, and try and keep things cordial. And your mother put the holes in my underwear when she took them off using her teeth.
whats english style lol
like my mother has any teeth lol
kwaichang
05-17-2009, 05:31 AM
When I w/o I wear Chefs pants!! yeah they are baggy and loose and are not cut like these modern uniforms. So I guess since I use Chef pants I am a Cook instead of a MA. You may think that but my french pastries are superb , haha. You wrote 70% when I said 75% and what I feel is right is skewed by history not GMT. You also said you could prove something then doit dont just say it. BTW it was called SD since the early 80's or late 70's. The ST wasnt even caring about the name at that time. . Also SD doesnt resemble Southern Kung Fu because it is more than just that. It is traced back to more than one temple. This is all I am going to say if Go Ju wants knowledge he is going to have to read the thread and learn, much like he has learned his MA from reading. KC
shen ku
05-17-2009, 05:44 AM
everyone always makes the big deal about using the words karate or shaolin...
i often think of how when GMS came to the U.S. that karate was i much more well known word in the use and was used to think of ALL eastern martial arts.. so i would think it could have been used to help people to understand what was going on?
and i also often think the work shaolin was an unknown thing by most people in this country at that time, so i feel it was most likely used because THATS WHAT IT WAS. I mean why elsa would you begin using that if no one would have known what you were talking about. So i feel at that time there was no benifit to using the name of shaolin? but i was what was.
another thing i have seen and wonder if any one elsa has ever seen this....
i have ran across a few books form the late 60s early 70s where a master teaching a kung fu style had all of his students wearing GIs,, thats what was in the pics, now the teacher was in fogbuttons but his students wore GIs? i alway just that they use what they could get at the time...
and on belts.........please just look around,,,,,,,,i run across alot worse **** then that from many so called quality schools...
Judge Pen
05-17-2009, 05:54 AM
Nice!!! That's just what I've been looking for.....I'm making some of those to use with my Baqua students......a lot less work than pouring concrete into flower pots and a he!! of a lot easier to put away:eek: hope you don't mind...I already have them holding postures on weighted sports balls....this will be great for their circle walking:cool:
BQ
We would use paint buckets for may flower excercises, circle walking, various push up training and one leg squats. Works well in a pinch.
lol the xcuses made to try to make sense out of the history and the style lol
its still circle talking from you guys
kwaichang
05-17-2009, 10:15 AM
Does anyone on here own a Shaolin MA uniform // How is it made etc??? KC
kwaichang
05-17-2009, 11:02 AM
JP I have PM for you clear some space KC
One student
05-17-2009, 02:23 PM
"HAHAHAHA.....I forgot about those fuking shoes weight vest have replaced the
buckets." (Baqualin)
I still have the shoes. And the buckets. And the weight vest.
And Dr. Yang Jwing Ming's book on Emei Baguazhang has a post pattern and walking path between and around the posts, and prescribes a circle of bricks to walk upon, also with weights in each hand while doing so -- like the buckets.
Does anyone on here own a Shaolin MA uniform // How is it made etc??? KC
I own one, an orange one, which I bought at the Shaolin Temple when I was in China. I don't train in it (never have), but it makes a great Halloween costume. It's a somewhat durable cotton/poly blend I believe. If I recall correctly it's mostly poly/other synthetic, which is another reason I don't train in it, as cotton is easier to care for. It's basically a top and a bottom, both orange, elastic waist and ankles on the pants, which are virtually identical to the pants worn in most Chinese martial arts. Really the only difference between the Shaolin pants and karate pants is the open ends of the karate pants. The top folds one end over the other in similar fashion to the karate gi top. It is roughly as long as a karate top and stitched more or less identically. Tying a sash around the waist rather than a karate belt and wearing the long socks and kung fu shoes, along with the orange color, helps make them look more different than the karate uniform, but having worn both I can tell you they are pretty **** similar. I hope this is what you were looking for.
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 03:26 PM
I learned everything I know now just by watching this video.
I'm amazing. Now you can be amazing, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccF50ssJKVA
Lmao!!! Shaolin wookie!!!!!!! I almost feel off my chair
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 03:34 PM
BTW, Barack Obama owns up to the world's #1 lineage controversy.
You don't...hate America....do you, Goju?:(
SOMEBODY BOO THAT MAN!!!!
"BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!":mad:
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 03:35 PM
Lmao!!! Shaolin wookie!!!!!!! I almost feel off my chair
If you're a parapalegic, and it happened to be a wheelchair, I hope you at least learned how to carthweel back into it.
oh yeah and technically the karate uniforms werent originally karate uniforms
krate is from okinawa not japan and thus is not a japanese art like many think
and when the okinawans were trying to introduce karate to japan the japanese didnt really get it
so they okinawans used the japanese uniforms and the belt system from judo and used japanese names to ease krate along and the japanese excepted it
traditionally there is no karate uniform the okinawans were very casual about teaching and didnt even have names for their kata or moves
god your going to catch so much **** from these guys for calling that master shaolin wookie lol
im just going to sit back and watch the train wreck
of course not the only thing i hate are ugly women and the english lol
thats a nice tie you got there in your pic shaolin wookie lol where you get that at? nordstrom?
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 03:44 PM
oh yeah and technically the karate uniforms werent originally karate uniforms
krate is from okinawa not japan and thus is not a japanese art like many think
and when the okinawans were trying to introduce karate to japan the japanese didnt really get it
so they okinawans used the japanese uniforms and the belt system from judo and used japanese names to ease krate along and the japanese excepted it
traditionally there is no karate uniform the okinawans were very casual about teaching and didnt even have names for their kata or moves
You're deluded. You have no idea about history whatsoever. Karate is from okinawa, true; and maybe they didn't even have names for katas or their moves.
But I bet they had a name that was pretty close in meaning to "d0uchebag." Not that this has anything to do with the present argument. I'm just really into etymology.
Oh, and your history is warped because the Japanese were in league with the Nazis, and Emperor Hirohito suppressed the truth and redrafted all of Japan's textbooks. But here, I'm going to let you into the real secret:
The Japanese are actually Chinese.
See, sic probo: gi's are actually Chinese by default, because the Japanese are really from China. Any questions?
god **** ive been exposed
this calls for a shaolin show down!!
get in your fighting stance
no fireballs croutching tiger hidden dragon flying are the only rules
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 03:49 PM
thats a nice tie you got there in your pic shaolin wookie lol where you get that at? nordstrom?
I don't know....I found it in your mom's closet. I guess it belonged to your dad. BTW....you never told me she had an English accent....but you did tell me she was a lot prettier than she actually is. That's okay. At least she isn't one of them bald chicks. She makes up for the "look" deficit with good old enthusiasm and a willingness to experiment.
Oops...I didn't see your post above. I'm sorry. That explains a lot.
BTW, I own a private practice. I can give you counseling if you need it. I see you're located in "mommy's house".....
I'll drop by later for a house call. And I'll see if I can answer some questions for you, too.
for uour information my mother looks like steven tyler from aerosmith lol
hey question for you when it rains do you smell like a wet dog?
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 03:57 PM
for uour information my mother looks like steven tyler from aerosmith lol
hey question for you when it rains do you smell like a wet dog?
Only when I'm in the company of little b1tches. I guess it rubs off on me when I put 'em to heel.
question do you or do you not have a tail?
does it also wag when your happy
who would win in a fight between you and chuck norris?
god im in the presence of a grand ******* i mean grandmaster what do i ask?!
isnt it hot in south china howd he live with all that hair?
why didnt he cut it off gut of course no sd student will answer this
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 04:03 PM
question do you or do you not have a tail?
does it also wag when your happy
Ask your mom.
Hey. I gotta go, Goju. I'll see you around. I was bored, I came to this website, and hey....now I'm even boreder. BTW, "boreder" is French for "Awesome."
If you spell that backwards, you get a German word: "Rederob." I think it means retard.
See ya later, Rederob.
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 04:05 PM
who would win in a fight between you and chuck norris?
My Awesomeness can neither be created nor destroyed. My Awesomeness would subsume Chuck Norris, and we would become truly "boreder." (EDIT: In this one case only, where "boreder" is used as the rare Norris predicate, "boreder" means "Totally Rad").
okay i tghink your shift starts at burger king say hi to grandmaster si for me while your there!
metaana aratnuui esaeach aran ireinn tuath danna luantgh
i could tell you what this means but i just made it up so i cant lol
see ya wookie im gonna go call my fiancee
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 04:07 PM
god im in the presence of a grand ******* i mean grandmaster what do i ask?!
Well, the tinman asked for a heart....the lion asked for courage. I don't know, scarecrow.....whaddya in the market for?
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 04:10 PM
see ya wookie im gonna go call my fiancee
He said yes? Now, I consider myself a pretty conservative fella, and I know it stands against everything I believe in, but I just can't begrudge Maine for its new gay marriage laws.
I just love newlyweds. *sniffle*
yes im engaged now so that means i can no longer put my ***** in you
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:00 PM
yes im engaged now so that means i can no longer put my ***** in you
Whatever happened to You? Did he end up going back to China? I remember when you used to tell me all about him when we played cards on the milk crates behind Burger King on the morning shift. I thought you and You would really go the distance.
Oh well. You look like you're doing well for yourself. Man...f%*k You...ya know? I'm sure this new guy is a much better match for you than You could ever be.
bodhi warrior
05-17-2009, 05:05 PM
Wookie, your hilarious dude. You had me rollin. I sure did miss your wit.
Yao Sing
05-17-2009, 05:07 PM
Does anyone on here own a Shaolin MA uniform // How is it made etc??? KC
I own one, an orange one, which I bought at the Shaolin Temple when I was in China. I don't train in it (never have), but it makes a great Halloween costume.
Yep, I bought one while I was there the first time too and so far only wore it for Halloween at work one year.
It has a different feel than a Gi but it's cut from the same pattern.
My KF is awesome when I have it on but I can't move for crap once I take it off. It's all in the uniform you know. I get really rigid and talk funny when I wear a Gi. :D
maybe one day you can get your girlfreind fro under your bed inflate her and you two and my fiancee can go out on a couples date
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:19 PM
maybe one day you can get your girlfreind fro under your bed inflate her and you two and my fiancee can go out on a couples date
Maybe you want to recheck your math.
1+1+1 does make three, but only in Special Ed.
yeah thats weird i have to wear some type of loose pants to kick well if i wear shorts my kicks suck
just because shes made out of latex dosnt mean shes not aperson wook god your so ensensitive
Yao Sing
05-17-2009, 05:22 PM
Yeah, that was a joke.
Plus I meant to say I grunt a lot when I wear a Gi. :D <- <- <-
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:22 PM
yeah thats weird i have to wear some type of loose pants to kick well if i wear shorts my kicks suck
Are those rubber pants? And what's wrong with your shoes? Just tell your mom to get you some new kicks--you don't have to wear your heels everywhere, you know. Sometimes a girl just has to know when to wear flats.
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:24 PM
just because shes made out of latex dosnt mean shes not aperson wook god your so ensensitive
Are you implying that, somehow, I'm actually in sensitive? Like, I've managed to get inside sensitivity? That's an amazing concept.
Please, hit me with some more brain teasers. Dude, you rock!!!
yeah but then i blow all my money and dont got anew dress to wear
My KF is awesome when I have it on but I can't move for crap once I take it off. It's all in the uniform you know. I get really rigid and talk funny when I wear a Gi. :D
I once punched through a man's chest while wearing a karate gi, but wore a chinese style uniform when I went to apologize to his family. His wife was a real bish about the whole thing, so I decided to just punch through her chest too, but found that I couldn't do it with a kung fu uniform on? So thanks for letting me know about that weird instance. I think I'm going to wear a Chinese style uniform from now on, for the safety of those around me...:cool:
Are you implying that, somehow, I'm actually in sensitive? Like, I've managed to get inside sensitivity? That's an amazing concept.
Please, hit me with some more brain teasers. Dude, you rock!!!
well you are the greastest shaoilin master that has a genetic hair deformity lived in the woods but walked around with a suit on and that ever lived so that shouldnt be a suprise
well ill be a son of a bish
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:29 PM
yeah but then i blow all my money and dont got anew dress to wear
Remember that time when we were at Panda Express on our lunch break and you got that fortune in the cookie that said: "Sometimes blowing and money go hand-in-hand. But they have to go in that order."
I think someone's trying to tell you something.
A world full of new dresses is basically at your fingertips. That, and a scorching case of Herpes.
(BTW, feel free to substitute "fingertips" with mouth. But only if you really want to).
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:32 PM
well you are the greastest shaoilin master that has a genetic hair deformity lived in the woods but walked around with a suit on and that ever lived so that shouldnt be a suprise
Not true. Bigfoot isn't called Bigfoot because he has big feet. He's a Shaolin master, too. He was the monk who created kicking. And in the woods, we wear suits. "Suits" happens to be Botswanian for "Karate Gi." Suits are Chinese, but only because Karate gi's are chinese, and the Japanese are really CHinese. It all makes sense, but you have to be fluent in Tibetan to grasp its essence.
arent we all chinese on the inside?
Not true. Bigfoot isn't called Bigfoot because he has big feet. He's a Shaolin master, too. He was the monk who created kicking. And in the woods, we wear suits. "Suits" happens to be Botswanian for "Karate Gi." Suits are Chinese, but only because Karate gi's are chinese, and the Japanese are really CHinese. It all makes sense, but you have to be fluent in Tibetan to grasp its essence.
I know Bigfoot. In fact, I trained with him for several hundred years.
- yeti
Remember that time when we were at Panda Express on our lunch break and you got that fortune in the cookie that said: "Sometimes blowing and money go hand-in-hand. But they have to go in that order."
I think someone's trying to tell you something.
A world full of new dresses is basically at your fingertips. That, and a scorching case of Herpes.
(BTW, feel free to substitute "fingertips" with mouth. But only if you really want to).
yeah but then you come home from work with a sore mouth and a sore a nus who wants that lol
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:40 PM
arent we all chinese on the inside?
No. I'm 100% Awesome.
I know Bigfoot. In fact, I trained with him for several hundred years.
- yeti
yeah we know him too he always used to come down from the woods at the burger king we work at an clog up the mens toilet me and wookie spepnt hours trying to unclog the lochness monster he left in there
No. I'm 100% Awesome.
i beleive the correct wao of saying it is boreder
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:41 PM
yeah but then you come home from work with a sore mouth and a sore a nus who wants that lol
Don't worry, I'm sure your boyfriend will still love you.
what is this thread about now lol
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:45 PM
i beleive the correct wao of saying it is boreder
Look at the Rederob go. He's learning. He's not hopeless. But by "Wao" I hope you meant either "Wow" or "tao". See, tao means way--just like "do."
But if I had said "borreder" everyone would have been like...hey, look at what that dude just wrote....wow!"
Or maybe you meant it was like a cool "tao" to say what I said, and you knew, even beforehand, people would be like "wow!"
Yea. It's totally wao. Totally.
Look at the Rederob go. He's learning. He's not hopeless. But by "Wao" I hope you meant either "Wow" or "tao". See, tao means way--just like "do."
But if I had said "borreder" everyone would have been like...hey, look at what that dude just wrote....wow!"
Or maybe you meant it was like a cool "tao" to say what I said, and you knew, even beforehand, people would be like "wow!"
Yea. It's totally wao. Totally.
and i thought my neighbours smoked alot of pot lol
One student
05-17-2009, 05:48 PM
This is my take on some of the more common criticisms of SD. Just my (somewhat reasoned) opinion, can never be proved or disproved, and is not an infallible theory. And it requires some practical consideration of the reality at the time. I've thought about writing a book, but it would put people to sleep. Here is a too-long summary.
GGM ICM came from China, and other places. He learned from others. As far as I can tell and see, almost everyone who trains that long, that hard, that much, puts their own spin on the material, and rightfully so. I suspect if it were possible to go back to see what the first tai chi form, or pa kua, or any other material, looked like, and compare it to what it looked like after it passes through X hands to get to now, no one would recognize it. So no one can complain or assign any weight to the lack of resemblance of GGM ICM's material to any other ancient Temple material or that taught by others today, who learned it on a different path. ICM's and GMT's came through a different path to today than the current Temple material did, as did others who are on a different path.
GGM Su Kong. Names, faces, unexplained photos and clothing. How many stories of Western legends and figures have tall tales attached? When people used to criticize Hong Kong kung fu movies as "unbelievable" that people can do that stuff, I reminded them, those movies are sometimes about legends, and their tradional heroes. How is pulling a sword and killing a dozen armed soldiers, different than Clint Eastwood pulling his six-shooter and fanning to death six armed gunfighters before they can even draw? OK, that is fantasy, to some extent. How many stories have we been told about the old West figures, who were real people, the truth of which is unknowable? Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, outlaws, heroes, etc. How many historical photos are there of persons whose details are not known? But to say he did not exist because his name is not amongst millions of Chinese, hundreds or more non-documented martial artists, during a time of nearly non-existent record keeping, or because of undatable photos or a style of clothing or other people in other places in other times that look like him -- that is incredible.
When GMT was training, he was in Indonesia. There was at least SOME dislike for things Chinese, which is not disputed anywhere, although the degree of it is. If I were going to teach something where most other people don't like it and might bother me or my family about it, I would probably also alter it at least some, even after my own personal spin was put on it.
Why not teach it only in secret, and stay with exactly and purely the way it was taught to him? See below, but lets face it: most accomplished experts who teach, and are worth being taught by, do it for a living. Keeping it a secret is not exactly conducive to making a living by teaching. So a balance of openness, but not offending, must be struck.
As for including other elements into it, including Japanese words, or "ippon kumite" methods, if I take my martial arts seriously, and see something someone else does that is good, and say, "I'm not going to do that, that is not traditional [whatever I am doing]," that stubborn refusal to learn and adapt would be stupid. So, unless "what I was taught is perfect and has no room for improvement or consideration of any adjustment ever for any reason," failure to evolve is dumb. Anyone with a history like ICM or GMT would be smart enough to know that, and if he sees a training method, like one step sparring, that is good, he would be dumb to disregard it just because it is not what he was taught or the way he was taught it, or even more archaic, not the way HIS teacher was taught it. Is not the history of even the Temples, evolving, adapting, changing, and improving, from Damo or whatever, to the end?
And is there not a history of two-man fighting sets in almost all TCMA's systems? What do you think "ippon kumite" is, other than one step at a time, instead of a series of steps. Its just a simplified, "elementary" start for a more complex concept. Call me naive, but I think it is a good thing that I was able to do "one step" sparring, one step at a time, before I did a long form two-man set, that might run 30+ steps in sequence. If that is bad because it is not TCMA, so what.
I can't think of any accomplished martial arts student or teacher I know, or who posts here for that matter, that has not at one time branched off and experienced more than one style, something else, read someone else's texts, etc., and incorporated what he/she liked and benefitted from, into his/her own practice, when it is good to do so. Why then is so much criticism of SD because its progenitors have done so and made it part of what they pass on to their own students? If I can be taught by someone who learns and adapts, or by one who knows nothing other than one way and cannot learn or adapt, that choice is easy -- unless all I want is the historical lessons.
TO BE CONTINUED
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:50 PM
what is this thread about now lol
This thread is about you now. You're the most important person in the world to us right now. We're just waiting for you to open up to us.
Consider this your Intervention.
BTW, ignore that guy with the stungun behind you and his buddy with the straightjacket. The stungun is really a "hotwired stick of emotional support", and the jacket represents "emotional security with no strings attached."
We are all your friends. Nobody is here to hurt you.
Quick!!! GEt him!
dude get with the program where on aabout burger king and prostituiton and how japanese people came from china and how everything is borreder but only if you truly beleive it
Yao Sing
05-17-2009, 05:52 PM
Wao is my little brother. Stop talking crap about him.
One student
05-17-2009, 05:53 PM
Uniforms: If you are not a monk living in a temple, wearing that clothing would be inappropriate, maybe even disrepectful, and definitely insincere. Look at the old photos of traditional kung fu practitioners in the East -- they don't wear what we now call "kung fu uniforms." They wear whatever they have on that is comfortable. And most who practice CMA agree that although so-called "kung fu uniforms" look really cool and make those students feel like "kung fu" practioners, they are not rugged, and are not practical, and didn't they come more from movies than real martial arts schools anyway? Didn't many schools, outside of the temples, that wanted a uniform, just wear loose pants, and a t-shirt, and something tied around the waist? Traditional gi's are rugged, and are practical. Why do some MMA's still wear them, even in the ring? I saw a match recently where a tradionalist and former champion and current contender (non-UFC) wore a gi in a ring match, and used the sleeve and collar to choke out the opponent. It improves grip and friction. If we were to line up all the possible choices for a uniform for a school where discipline and practicality and uniformity was important, which one would be anyone's first choice, if indeed fighting, not appearance, were important? But those who want to criticize GGM ICM, or later GMT, for making that choice, although doing so creates an appearnce of modern notions of non-TCMA, and at the same time wants to discredit the combative benefits and claims of SD, is hypocritical.
Japanese rankings? Isn't that a minor adaptation of the most meaningless, but also most obvious, way to avoid looking like a pure Chinese system, if one was wanting to avoid that pure appearance? And isn't that also a common factor in schools that were run to be business and support the instructor? Isn't that also a convenient, even if not tradional Chinese kung fu, way of keeping track of a student's progress, and also to set future goals? When I tested, I did so for one reason: not to have another stripe on my belt, but to force myself to progress to that goal: being confident enough in that material to perform it under pressure, in front of others who probably knew it better than I did, and not just to have them say it was okay, but to know myself that it is up to my standards.
Claiming some of the material is "made up" by GMT, or even GGM ICM. If one wants a historical martial art that has not changed ever since it was created, one also needs a time machine. There is no such thing today. Isn't TKD a "creation" to serve the popular needs, derived from tang soo do and/or moo duk kwan? Wasn't judo invented as a "gentler way" from the more brutal ju jitsu? We all know how jeet kune do came about -- purely "made up." Is all that therefore illegitimate? Wasn't every style today "made up" from something else? How many traditional Japanese Karate styles were just "made up" or derived from something else -- including Goju-ryu? I would hope my teacher is astute enough to be able to develop new techniques and methods, including forms, to meet my needs, and if I have a teacher that I don't think is good enough to do that -- I need a new teacher.
And as for thinking GMT must be making most of it up because he uses notes or books to prepare for class, or has deviations from one class to the next. First, I recall I have in the past "made up" forms for myself. I couldn't remember them at all not long after, unless I practiced nothing but that, unlike the forms I was trained and taught by others, which if I've forgotten, I can go back and look at notes, or keep working at, they do come back to me. Recently with such help, I have recovered material I first learned decades ago, and can now do like it was yesterday (mentally at least). I teach an evening class (nothing to do with martial arts) at a local branch of a university, have been since 1987, and on a subject that I make a living doing every day. I still get my lecture notes, tests, other teaching material out, every time I teach every session of the ten-week class, and still have variations on how I teach it from sesson to session. So what?
900 forms. I think the number comes from the list -- that I hear other schools have plagiarized for their websites -- of systems, and the forms per system (18 broadswords, 7 of this, 12 of that -- and add them all up). 108 are the short forms. Many are VERY short. Doesn't for example the five element fists, 12 animals, linking set, and two man set, of Hsing-Ie count as 19 of them? Many are not so short, but most people who criticize based only on the number assume it is literally 900 long form sets, and that is not true.
It is not outside the realm of possibility that GMT focused on his specialty (his "major"), and at the same time was taught other forms. I've learned the basic movements of a new form in 30 minutes, and then go on to practice and refine it according to my way. He was with GGM ICM for hours per day, almost every day, for many years. He probably was taught by every one of the Masters at that school. He could learn and memorize a form, work on it, and go to another one, maybe not go back to the old ones again, maybe yes. He is not a dummy. He has a degree in engineering, which he achieved after first coming to a foreign country, no easy feat. He is known to be fluent in several languages. He has a black belt in judo. Why couldn't he learn more than I can learn -- or more than "you" think you could accomplish? If he was no better than me, why do I want him to teach me? I've told critics more than once, once you think you are good enought to critique your own teacher, you need a new teacher.
In my career I know more about the stuff I do most and more often, but can still do the stuff I do less regularly. I might know more about the stuff I've done more than a lot of people, and less about the stuff others do more than I do, but I still know it and can pass it on to others. And they might get better at it than I ever was. GOOD. That is what a teacher hopes will happen.
TO BE CONTINUED
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:53 PM
dude get with the program where on aabout burger king and prostituiton and how japanese people came from china and how everything is borreder but only if you truly beleive it
You're wrong. It's only "boreder" if you truly Translate it.
you dotn want to test me fellas
im like a bipolar squirrel on viagra when i get backed into a corner and i dont want to be
word to the wise
i dont mess...
You're wrong. It's only "boreder" if you truly Translate it.
buts its onlt translate it if your only a marsupial
now whos wrong
One student
05-17-2009, 05:56 PM
Using the word "karate" in the school description. Place yourself coming to the U.S. in the early to mid 60's. Don't tell me anyone outside of Asia knew what "kung fu" was. GMT was not even taught in a traditonal Chinese martial arts setting in China, no wonder he wasn't tied up with looking like a TCMA establishment. I recall the scene in "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story" of the "traditional" Chinese masters who forbid Bruce Lee from teaching Westerners. That is representative of a CMA hierarchy that GMT was not part of, having learned and trained "in exile" so to speak, with other "exiles" removed from those trappings and expectations.
Many people were starting to know what "karate" -- a very generic term --was about. They knew it to mean, "some kind of Asian" -- or the more pejoriative "Oriental" -- "fighting styles." What once was called "Chinese boxing." If one is going to start a school and make a living, call it something someone will recognize. If as people have said, that an attempt was made to make people think it was Temple Shaolin -- why do that, in the early 60's? Who in the early to mid 60's in the U.S. -- much less in Central Ky. -- would even know what that was? And IF he were wanting to exploit Shaolin, then THE WAY to do it would be to call it that right from the start. But it wasn't purely traditional Shaolin, in the Temple sense, and so it wasn't called that. It was called what it could be generically described as in the 60's using terms we could understand -- "karate," or Asian martial arts (synonymous at the time), from a Shaolin perspective and influence. The "Shaolin Way," following on other "Do" terminology more familiar. I doubt "kung fu" was even used at all at the time, but I could be wrong. Why doesn't that make sense? What else should a new venture in Central Kentucky in the 60's have been called,that would have made more sense?
SD teaches material also from outside the Temple. Wasn't historically the various temples also interested in learning about outside stlyes and practices? If a Shaolin priest were out and saw someone practicing something that was new, should they ignore it with their nose in the air -- "thats not from our temple therefore it can't be any good" -- or with an open mind consider it and learn from it. If GGM ICM, or GMT, actually learned something good, like Hsing Ie, Pa Kua, Tai Chi, Northern this or Southern that, and pass it on within their teachings, why is that bad?
If in fact I were to advertise, "I teach nothing but pure, unadulterated, untouched, INSERT WHATEVER," and then throw something completely different and unrelated, that is one thing. That is not the case, except I think from the unfortunate few who themselves don't understand the connection between "Shaolin" and material from outside the Temple per se, and put that misunderstanding in writing. People who have posted here, have "kung fu" schools, and also do cardio kickboxing, tai chi, yoga, some MMA, etc. So what? I can go to a steakhouse and my kids can get hamburgers at the same time.
And I suspect GMT does not personally draft the material printed in his name, and maybe even doesn't review texts others print in his name. He's got other things to do. Too bad, and I wish others would be more careful in passing off their words as his. But I remember during a sparring class taught by GMT's brother, practicing for an upcoming tournament, we spent some time on ground fighting. That week later in class, elsewhere, my teacher asked me to take some of the younger students aside who were interested in participating in the tournament, and have some sparring practice. I did so, and also had them do some of the ground fighting as I did the week before. My teacher became somewhat upset, not wanting that, thinking it was too soon for those younger students to worry about that, and just wanted them drilled on stand up. I was teaching in his name, while he did something else with some other students, and although I had all good intentions, but misunderstanding what he wanted. My bad, not his.
SD material doesn't "look like" other TCMA. I've trained in SD since the mid 70's. I've also trained in other stuff, and more than one other TCMA (very briefly in eagle claw, non-SD Shaolin Leaopard, Hung Gar), and at other schools. I've searched the internet for other persons', non-SD, Pa Kua, Hsing Ie, tai chi, etc. I've read other teacher's books. I've seen movies. I've visited other kung fu, TKD, and Karate schools. There are differences, but I have also been amazed at some of the similarity. I've seen other material that is amazingly similar, and in details as well. I've seen similar titles, similar terminology, even similar texts. I've also seen dissimilar. Find me anything developed on different paths that is identical. It doesn't exist. Yet when something similar does come up, it must have been copied by SD - not the other way around. When something is not the same, it proves its made up.
And to some extent, there are different ways to get to the same place, but there might also be one BEST way to, for example, throw a straight punch, place a front kick, attack with a straight sword. It doesn't bother me that SD might want to do it this way, even in the context of Tiger, Mantis, or whatever, even if someone who claims pure Tiger or Mantis might do it another way, but also teach how to do it in other ways. To each his own. How do you know what is good for you, if you are only exposed to one thing?
But I've been to a very traditional non-SD CMA school. I spent a year at a Tien Shien Pai school, visited by the proclaimed 34th generation GM, or whatever, direct lineage to this and that, and the methods and material and postures and mechanics, etc., were just not that materially different from SD. The introductory Hsing Ie - very similar. Chi kung training: very similar. Basic empty hand forms: very similar. Two man sets, very similar. I spent a year there, and in addition to empty hand forms also did short stick, broadsword, introductory chi kung/breathing meditation, very similar curriculum as SD.
The portrayals of SD material that is most criticized, and more defective, is the practitioner, not the material. That is also bad on the practitioner, not GMT. What is he supposed to do, when something he has taught out is messed up, misrepresented, or just badly done by someone. Tell them to stop practicing? Tell them to forget they know him? Forget they learned any of it? Forbid them to demo it, unless they pass a certain grade? Does anyone think that is possible, much less practical.
TO BE CONTINUED
oh and to the guy who did the eassy kung fu masters didnt teach for aliving or advertise for that matter in fact because of the anti chinese hate in indonesia they would have had to teach secretly thus making the use ofr all the names etc etc that are japanese useless
god im so boredering niging right now
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 05:57 PM
i dont mess...
But you wear rubber pants, right?
We don't judge. I promise. We're here for your support. We're like your own emotional rubber pants.
One student
05-17-2009, 05:59 PM
Here's an idea: Lets say someone who thinks they know about martial arts, maybe they do, maybe they don't (maybe they are really good at dancing or posing for pictures), goes to a school for awhile, and thinks the teachers there are no good and he/she can beat up all their black belts. Then he starts telling others how bad that entire style is, and anyone who has anything to do with it, and "spits" on it all. Shouldn't we go back to every martial arts instructor that person has ever had, and "spit" on him/her, and their entire school and every student they have ever had, because it is obviously that instructor's fault for turning out, and permitting to exist, any student who claims to know so much from them, but presents themself so arrogantly, so disrespectfully, and, as they said in "Shogun," "with the manners of a pig." That instructor shoud be ashamed for being associated with one who shows so little honor and respect, for anyone, deserving or not. That instructor obviously tolerates disrespect, encourages the insulting tongue, invites the provoking blow, and has no more of a concept of bushido, or honor and respect in general, than any clown off the street.
All I know, is others here have spoken highly of many of you, such as YS, MK, JP, GT, BQ, KC, TTM, and others whose monikers escape me. I don't know any of you, but you have for the most part, with few isolated exceptions, conducted yourselves with dignity and honor, and have earned the respect of others here and elsewhere. That is good enough for me. On the other hand, there are others that no one, other than himself, speaks highly of, and his words speak for themselves. That says something, too.
I recently told a good freind, a good martial artist that I have learned much from, but who was never interested in testing past 1st black -- but knows more from independent study and research than many who "outrank" him -- my take on teaching stuff to people who don't appreciate it and can't do it. It is better to teach the material to many, knowing that few will take it to heart, than to not teach it at all. The seed may indeed fall on barren minds, but also some will bear fruit.
And in a letter of mine that was published in Kung Fu Magazine in the early 80's, I also said, in response to a critic of SD (it goes back that far and more), get over this stuff.If you go to a school you are not happy with, by all means find another one. It is a style, many like it and learn from it and benefit from it, and it has its basis in stuff that works. Many don't, or don't understand, or don't want to. Many just feed themselves by criticizing others. It is easier to criticize than to hold one's tongue, to retain an open mind, to just "live and let live." How about just keep practicing, and keep learning, do more asking questions than giving answers no one has asked for; and just be quiet about what others do?
I feel much better now that I got this off my chest. LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION AND COULD BE ENTIRELY WRONG. I SPEAK FOR MYSELF AND NOT FOR GMT, ANY OF HIS INSTRUCTORS OR STUDENTS OR SCHOOLS OR MASTERS.
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 06:00 PM
oh and to the guy who did the eassy kung fu masters didnt teach for aliving or advertise for that matter in fact because of the anti chinese hate in indonesia they would have had to teach secretly thus making the use ofr all the names etc etc that are japanese useless
I agree 100%.
*whisper to the rest of the SD forum* Dude, did you understand that? Me neither....oh well. Just nod your head. It's not cool to laugh at REderobs.*
id rather see you guys as my emotional jock strap here to hoist my balls high
see even wookie admits it your master has spoken sd students
oh and explain how its possible to know nine hundred forms?
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 06:03 PM
id rather see you guys as my emotional jock strap here to hoist my balls high
If it helps you to think of the raping you'll get in the mental ward from the guards as "an emotional jock strap there to hoist your balls high," that's cool. Remember....go to your happy place.
But unfortunately, we won't be going with you. You won't see us again until you get out.
and remember people even a short form has to be reviewd over and over and over again just because its easy dosnt mean youll be able to learn another one from your master
lOok at the sanchin form in karate for example super easy buT they had you work on it for years until you were taught ANYTHING ELSE
108 short forms would still take a gigantic time to learn not to mentionMASTER remember theres a difference between the two
and thats 108 what about the rest of the forms?
If it helps you to think of the raping you'll get in the mental ward from the guards as "an emotional jock strap there to hoist your balls high," that's cool. Remember....go to your happy place.
But unfortunately, we won't be going with you. You won't see us again until you get out.
but at least ill have some cool tatoos and a rock hard body from the weight room
Wao is my little brother. Stop talking crap about him.
uh oh here that wookie hes steppin to you
you just going to sit there like france and take it?
Shaolin Wookie
05-17-2009, 06:18 PM
uh oh here that wookie hes steppin to you
you just going to sit there like france and take it?
Sorry, I was taking a crap. What did you say?
Oh. France...:rolleyes: ****ed French-fry eating ingrates.
I hate France. They should be in Iraq right now. Period. It's just the right thing to do, and we had all the right Intelligence behind our dubious suspicions.
Look at the wonders it's done for us. But then, I think we should kill everything and spare nothing. It's the Shaolin way.
i know i hate the french so much too
i think the united forces should just pul out of iraq and bomb france
kill them all except sophie merceau she will be my second wife lol
god that was along crap you need some more fiber in your diet
Baqualin
05-18-2009, 06:24 AM
Here's an idea: Lets say someone who thinks they know about martial arts, maybe they do, maybe they don't (maybe they are really good at dancing or posing for pictures), goes to a school for awhile, and thinks the teachers there are no good and he/she can beat up all their black belts. Then he starts telling others how bad that entire style is, and anyone who has anything to do with it, and "spits" on it all. Shouldn't we go back to every martial arts instructor that person has ever had, and "spit" on him/her, and their entire school and every student they have ever had, because it is obviously that instructor's fault for turning out, and permitting to exist, any student who claims to know so much from them, but presents themself so arrogantly, so disrespectfully, and, as they said in "Shogun," "with the manners of a pig." That instructor shoud be ashamed for being associated with one who shows so little honor and respect, for anyone, deserving or not. That instructor obviously tolerates disrespect, encourages the insulting tongue, invites the provoking blow, and has no more of a concept of bushido, or honor and respect in general, than any clown off the street.
All I know, is others here have spoken highly of many of you, such as YS, MK, JP, GT, BQ, KC, TTM, and others whose monikers escape me. I don't know any of you, but you have for the most part, with few isolated exceptions, conducted yourselves with dignity and honor, and have earned the respect of others here and elsewhere. That is good enough for me. On the other hand, there are others that no one, other than himself, speaks highly of, and his words speak for themselves. That says something, too.
I recently told a good freind, a good martial artist that I have learned much from, but who was never interested in testing past 1st black -- but knows more from independent study and research than many who "outrank" him -- my take on teaching stuff to people who don't appreciate it and can't do it. It is better to teach the material to many, knowing that few will take it to heart, than to not teach it at all. The seed may indeed fall on barren minds, but also some will bear fruit.
And in a letter of mine that was published in Kung Fu Magazine in the early 80's, I also said, in response to a critic of SD (it goes back that far and more), get over this stuff.If you go to a school you are not happy with, by all means find another one. It is a style, many like it and learn from it and benefit from it, and it has its basis in stuff that works. Many don't, or don't understand, or don't want to. Many just feed themselves by criticizing others. It is easier to criticize than to hold one's tongue, to retain an open mind, to just "live and let live." How about just keep practicing, and keep learning, do more asking questions than giving answers no one has asked for; and just be quiet about what others do?
I feel much better now that I got this off my chest. LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION AND COULD BE ENTIRELY WRONG. I SPEAK FOR MYSELF AND NOT FOR GMT, ANY OF HIS INSTRUCTORS OR STUDENTS OR SCHOOLS OR MASTERS.
Very well said (I don't think anyones listening...to busy p!ssing:))....you must have started around the same time as I did......remember Buell armory
BQ
OldandUsed
05-18-2009, 06:36 AM
I agree, well written. Follows along very much as i recall it and see it.
Tensei85
05-18-2009, 07:08 AM
I dont know you have to admit after massive hours and a lot of general boredom Goju starts to wear on you. maybe we'll get used to him besides he's just a little unique, after all we accepted Shaolin Wookie even though at the time he wasnt even house broke. He's doing a lot better now though he only has an accident once in a while : )~ j/k
p.s. Shaolin Wookie is the man! or should I say Wookie.
Judge Pen
05-18-2009, 09:50 AM
One Student, Thank you for your contribution to the thread. Very well said.
One Student, Thank you for your contribution to the thread. Very well said.
I second this, well done. How long did all that take you?
god could you guys be up wookies a nus any more right now?
Tensei85
05-18-2009, 07:34 PM
Goju It's better than receiving! But your probably used to it by now, just playing.
One student
05-18-2009, 07:40 PM
I second this, well done. How long did all that take you?
Thank you for reading my "manifesto" -- I suspected most people would look how long it was, and, like higher end martial arts, skip it and go back to the ****ing on each other and the snappy one liners and comebacks.
The philisophical answer to "how long did it take," would be: Over 30 years -- how long its been since I started in any form of martial arts. I could also say, several months, how long its been since I've been reading this thread (I did go back to the beginning), sometimes shocked by what persons who profess to be martial artists are willing to say to and about other people, even their own teachers, much less other's teachers, much less people they have never met.
And as I've heard the criticisms, I've also considered potential answers, and weighed them for awhile. I just couldn't take it anymore. My patience, although vast, is not without limits, especially when it comes to ignorance. I hope it is perceived as constructive and informative.
But the short answer is, not too long. I can type pretty darn fast.
Tensei85
05-18-2009, 07:46 PM
Hey One student,
I'm not from the Shaolin Do lineage but I did enjoy the read of your post as well. Keep it up.
Shaolin Wookie
05-18-2009, 07:58 PM
Here's an idea: Lets say someone who thinks they know about martial arts, maybe they do, maybe they don't (maybe they are really good at dancing or posing for pictures), goes to a school for awhile, and thinks the teachers there are no good and he/she can beat up all their black belts.....That instructor shoud be ashamed for being associated with one who shows so little honor and respect, for anyone, deserving or not. That instructor obviously tolerates disrespect, encourages the insulting tongue, invites the provoking blow, and has no more of a concept of bushido, or honor and respect in general, than any clown off the street.
I agree with your sense of ethics, but I think your ethic here is a little out of context. SD is guilty of passing itself off as something it's not, at times--that is the source of almost all the criticism. I think much of the "Shaolin" without the "do" is misleading. I think citing the stele for authenticity is misleading. I think the "Grandmaster of Shaolin" again without the "do" is misleading. And these are misleading "factos" that are still propagated without the bat of an eyelash.
I personally don't care about SD history that much. I'm into martial arts, and I enjoy both the martial and art aspect. I didn't sign up for a history lesson or a lineage boost. SD has a nice blend of hte martial and the art. I don't think most students cared about Shaolin history...that is, until they find out what they've were told before they invested their time into the art was in fact not peer-reviewed. And if it wasn't peer reviewed, and the SD "pamphleteers" knew it wasn't, but still pawned it off as truth and pretended to be leading authorities---why should I trust them with anything, much less my money, time, and effort?
Such was my dilemma. When people misrepresent "truth" they don't respect your capacity to find it out for yourself. That's disrespectful. I only care about SD history because it is false, yet masquerading as truth.
Some teachers are more progressive. Thankfully, I consider ATL to be so. But the organization is not, if you judge it by its web/print publications.
I wasn't pizzed off that SD wasn't linked to Shaolin temple. I didn't care about hte forms being dissed as "unauthentic" on chatrooms. I've seen demos by leading authorities on all things kung-fu on this site.....and I was unimpressed.
Honestly, when I started Kung Fu I didn't even know there were such things as "codified" "across-the-borders-of-the-world-same-pattern-forms". I figured schools pretty much just made them up for demos, exhibiting the canonical techniques they'd learned from their teachers, now choreographed just for showing-off or for fun. Man was I wrong...or was I?:eek: What I was pizzed off at was that what I invested time into and was proud of had conducted its historical research so poorly, had advertised Coke as Pepsi, and such things--as cited above. That is unethical, b/c any halfwit with an enthusiasm for his art will want to know more about it. SD doesn't make that easy with the history it presents. W/O the internet, I might still be talking about the great hairy one at Shaolin Temple, and the destruction of Fukien, and all that jazz. It was hard to be proud of my belts after seeing some of the BS SD puts out. But I got past these details--with much difficulty--and understood my physical effort was worth something, and that my research into the real origiin of the style was worth something different, and I wasn't an SD "pamphleteer" and never will be, and I'll always answer every question posed with the truth as it stands in reality. And when I wear my black belt, it means something because someone else saw something in that effort. Maybe the organization as a whole didn't, but I know my teachers who know me and watched me grow into MA did see something. I respect the people I know, and I respect the arts they dedicated themselves to. But the system's history........I respect its true history, but not the unreliable and fabricated one.
Guess what? Now we can know more about our history, and we do. And still the bad history resurges, gets pasted on www.shaolingrandmaster.com, and there is no "ethic" to the continuation of bad history. The entire history of the art seems like a sham, because there is no mention of the creation of SD in Kentucky, of both GM The's teaching together--and all that. Where's the mention of multiple masters in a school in Bangdung, rather than the usual story that GM Ie was an exiled monk who taught GM The' and some other students---where's the mention of Central Plains Wushu school? Of his teaching-peers, apparently versed in a variety of styles? The "commercial" aspects of SD's history have been jettisoned by the SD "pamphleteers" in favor of a transmission that essential tries to pawn off on the public the following lineage:
Shaolin Temple & GM Su Kong---GM Su Kong in the mountains & Shaolin Temple/GM Ie (a Shaolin monk at a dubious Temple)---GM Ie (an exiled monk) & GM The' (the indoor student of a monk)------GM The' and authentic Shaolin ties & the American student body.
We know this is not true. We know it is misrepresentative. Nobody at Shaolin knows anything of Shaolin-Do. And this kind of misrepresentation is kind of appaling in my opinion. I'm not trying to be disrespectful---but I think it's disrespectful to represent Shaolin-Do in the way it is represented from the top down. If you sign your name to an article you didn't write, or someone helped to draft...or if you allow that to pass in your name...you're adding your assent to it. So you can't weasel out of that one.
Sure, MA history isn't bonafide history...but guys like Meir Shahar show just how amateurish and unreliable SD's historical research is. It's like a recap of every Shaw brothers legend in technicolor....which SD is saying is some kind of digitial tour-de-force based on actual documents.
I looked around Atlanta for the best "teachers" as I cross-trained, not the most respected styles, and I've been happy with SD for the most part. Sometimes it lacks some of the finer points, and sometimes you have to go to the sources to refine your material--that is, if you do love the "art" of "martial arts" and you want to progress. I've heard some crappy theories passed around in SD schools by assistant teachers that I know the head teacher didn't pass around---so where's the info coming from? It's coming from the sources SD puts out as its offical manifesto.
Why don't the SD websites cite GM The' as having created "Shaolin-Do" to suit his commercial needs, or to put his own stamp on the art? Why don't they cite full lineages including Hiang? That is revisionist history, and it's rather annoying to a researcher. So when SD pokes at the unreliable history of Shaolin in general, due to Communist revision, I only shake my head and say, with irony, "He who has a mote in his eye...."
I'm a grad student. I don't believe in trusting any one source. I believe in citing your sources, and only using bonafide sources. I think if someone writes something misleading, it is immoral. I think if you're passing on an oral tradition, you better **** well insist on its oral transmission and "according to one story" type of format; and you better provide a review of formal criticism. I just don't see that in SD lit. GM The' likes telling stories and legends. I think most of us enjoy listening to them when he's talking to us about hte background of styles and forms at festivals and such--but we probably don't believe these tall tales as fact, right? Nor should we. But SD's "historical legacy" is so full of pitfalls and half-shades of truth, critics have plenty to gripe about, and I think they have the moral obligation to do so. I have personally considered it my goal to root out the bull&*(% and scrounge up the scraps of truth. Why? Because if someone asks me the history of my style, my forms, etc., I should know the difference between tall tales and real hard facts. I should know that the 2 China Hand forms are not tiger forms--they're old longfist forms....that's peer-reviewed. I shoudl know my Tai Chi 64 is Cheng Man Ching's. I should know hte difference between the forms. I should know my Bagua is Jiang Rong Qiao's Classical Bagua. And I should know those are modern forms that do not descend from Shaolin. I should know that Shaolin temples and Wudang temples did not form a parent Shaolin network.
GM The' studied at Central Plains Wushu. Not quite "Shaolin-Do", and certainly casts doubt on the "undercover" nature of the style.
Why not simply say GM The' created the style? I'm sure he re-ordered hte structure. The cirriculum is not the same as it was at the beginning. We have internal programs now. I'm sure he picked up his Tai Chi in America or in Indonesia, but since our Tai Chi 64 is Cheng Man Ching's 37 posture form---it's a late edition---certainly not what "Secrets of the Temple" puts out there. Our Bagua is Jiang Rong Qiao Classical Baguazhang---certainly not the Tung Hai Chuan (I think that's his name) the SD book puts out there, crediting a link between some ancient Taoist trade of secrets. SD is much more modern than it advertises.
GM The' is a laid-back dude, from what I've seen. He's had plenty of ambitions. He seems to admit when he makes mistakes. But the history....man......why not own up to what we know, and what we know is not true?
I do this personally. It would be nice to see an organizational move on that point.
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