Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[BentMonk]

I appreciate JP's enthusiasm, but I know that I am a klutz that is fond of his appendages. :D My weapons aren't edged, but they're not light either. Using heavy weapons has helped strengthen my balance. Weapons are also just plain fun.

[MasterKiller]

It's good JP already has one child. I fear for the safety of his nutsack.

[Judge Pen]

It's good JP already has one child. I fear for the safety of his nutsack.

Iron balls chi gung.

Serioulsy, a live weapon is great for concentration and keeping with the spirit of the weapon. If I have no experience with the weapon, then I'll use a dull edge or other safety precautions (such as padding the end of the chain whip) but once I get familiar with the weapon, I start looking for a live edged version.

So far, I've not had any real injuries. The chain whip caused some nasty bumps and bruises though. Kind of like the rope dart photos you posted a couple of years ago MK.

[tattooedmonk]

What is the order of the animals in the SD 8 Animal Bagua???

[kwaichang]

Phoenix dragon bear tiger snake monkey horse eagle KC

[kungfujunky]

kc is that set in stone? when i learned it was :

Phoenix dragon bear tiger horse snake monkey eagle.

i am waiting on BQ for the tape of gmt doing it so i know i have it down right but i was under the impression there was no set pattern

[Golden Tiger]

Phoenix dragon bear tiger snake monkey horse eagle KC

That is the order that Master Sin taught it out the first time. But as with all the other forms, when one circle ends, you can do which ever one you wish or if you want to get very technical, you can apply the level I-IV training of classical and mix and match them.:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

Did you ever find out the exact story about the 3 birds?? I know they are supposed to be from Emei/ Omei Shan Shaolin but that is all that is told about them.

[tattooedmonk]

kc is that set in stone? when i learned it was :

Phoenix dragon bear tiger horse snake monkey eagle.

i am waiting on BQ for the tape of gmt doing it so i know i have it down right but i was under the impression there was no set pattern
This is the way I remember it as well. GT is right ,you can change it up .

Thanks again.;)

[Golden Tiger]

Did you ever find out the exact story about the 3 birds?? I know they are supposed to be from Emei/ Omei Shan Shaolin but that is all that is told about them.

No, thats about all the info I have on them also. That they were part of an "original " set that others were derived from.

I will be seeing Master Sin in a couple of weeks and I will try to remember to ask for additional background on them.

[Shaolin Wookie]

My mestre put up a documentary.

Sweet stuff. You can catch your boy here at 1:40 in, doing a front sweep (the only white dude, and bald / wearin' white pants). LOL....and doin' it sloppy. Must've been tired--hardest workouts ever.....

The kid at 1:30 is sick; he's just absolutely sick. He makes me feel like a 90 y.o. hack...LOL...

Unfortunately, you don't get to see Mestre Robson doin' cool stuff. Then again, they filmed the entire thing during our class sessions, so you only get to see the basics. But he's the real deal...plays the music, plays the game, built like a Mack Truck.

[bakxierboxer]

My mestre put up a documentary.

Sweet stuff. You can catch your boy here at 1:40 in, doing a front sweep (the only white dude, and bald / wearin' white pants). LOL....and doin' it sloppy. Must've been tired--hardest workouts ever.....

The kid at 1:30 is sick; he's just absolutely sick. He makes me feel like a 90 y.o. hack...LOL...

Unfortunately, you don't get to see Mestre Robson doin' cool stuff. Then again, they filmed the entire thing during our class sessions, so you only get to see the basics. But he's the real deal...plays the music, plays the game, built like a Mack Truck.

It'd help if you put the link in there......

[MasterKiller]

i'm new here and don't feel like reading hundreds of pages on this thread. What is Shaolin-Do?

stfu, n00b

[lkfmdc]

stfu, n00b

next he'll post

"I'm new here and don't know what 'stfu n00b' means" :D

[brucereiter]

stfu, n00b

lol :cool::D:eek::confused:

[Baqualin]

Phoenix dragon bear tiger snake monkey horse eagle KC

Correct!!
fjduighrui

[Shaolin Wookie]

My mestre put up a documentary.

Sweet stuff. You can catch your boy here at 1:40 in, doing a front sweep (the only white dude, and bald / wearin' white pants). LOL....and doin' it sloppy. Must've been tired--hardest workouts ever.....

The kid at 1:30 is sick; he's just absolutely sick. He makes me feel like a 90 y.o. hack...LOL...

Unfortunately, you don't get to see Mestre Robson doin' cool stuff. Then again, they filmed the entire thing during our class sessions, so you only get to see the basics. But he's the real deal...plays the music, plays the game, built like a Mack Truck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN_mI1tGnK4

LOL...forgot the link the first time.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Some of the senior students....and mestres associated with the school. Mestre Robson comes out at 1:40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgKQGXqEGWU

[Golden Tiger]

Some of the senior students....and mestres associated with the school. Mestre Robson comes out at 1:40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgKQGXqEGWU


aka..... "You've been served!" :D

J/k very talented indeed

[Shaolin Wookie]

aka..... "You've been served!" :D

J/k very talented indeed

LOL.........

"Dance, sucka! You got nuthin' on me! Why don't you dance, sucka!"

[kwaichang]

Have to agree it looked like moderate gymnastics to me. And yes I have seen Capoeira KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

LOL....that's part of capoeira, dude. The batizado is a yearly event that initates people into capoeira. You'll see beginners and mestres, and they all play on the stage. Of course, it's best when you see two mestres go at it, but there are different elements of the batizado. What you must be looking for is the roda, where you square off with someone inside a circle.

This part of the show was just showing off gymnastics stuff.

"moderate gymnastics"......LOL, had me laughing.

[kwaichang]

I have seen and know owners of a gymnastic studio whos daughter made the national team and was going Olympic. She was a great gymnast , yes they on the clip were moderate meaning middle not good and not bad. KC

[kwaichang]

HEY MAYBE THEY CAN MAKE A MOVIE GYMKATA II TEEHEE kc

[Judge Pen]

HEY MAYBE THEY CAN MAKE A MOVIE GYMKATA II TEEHEE kc

Gymkata ROCKED!!! :D

[Shaolin Wookie]

I have seen and know owners of a gymnastic studio whos daughter made the national team and was going Olympic. She was a great gymnast , yes they on the clip were moderate meaning middle not good and not bad. KC

In other words, you've seen your friend's daughter square off with a rival team, duck a lightning-quick crescent kick aimed at her head, quickly pop onto her hands, throw three kicks upside down, spin off onto one hand, drop down into a negativa, throw a front sweep, and then cap it off with double front tornado kick, all while keeping to the beat of the berimbau?

I think not....LOL....

(Not saying gymnastics suck, just that they're about as innovative as wushu:p)

Parana e, beeyatchies....:D

[kwaichang]

She is also a black belt in martial arts and her father was a world kickboxing champion and US champion. But I didnt see what you described on the clip either so you are right I didnt see that. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

LOL....KC, no offense man, but you're a real tool.

[Judge Pen]

LOL....KC, no offense man, but you're a real tool.

I thought so at first too, but he is a really good guy when you get to know him. It's hard to gauge personalities on an internet forum.

[Baqualin]

I thought so at first too, but he is a really good guy when you get to know him. It's hard to gauge personalities on an internet forum.

JP I must agree with you again.......KC just likes to aggravate.
BQ

[kwaichang]

Just call it like I see it thats all BTW do I aggravate you BQ do I huh Do I ?? I think not / Besides a tool is something used to fix something else thanks man KC
BTW why do all of you guys always say LOL then are derogatory toward that person LOL means Lots of Love right????

[BM2]

While we all will disagree at some point, it shouldn't make us disagreeable.
I think that JP has wanted to go 1bad65 on someone's counsel before, he has to demostrate restraint if he wants to work.
I don't care much for Shaolin Wookie because of the way he posts, look at his signature. When he called KC a tool it was like calling the kettle black. I'm fairly certain that he feels the same about me and chances are he is correct:o

[MasterKiller]

Just call it like I see it thats all BTW do I aggravate you BQ do I huh Do I ?? I think not / Besides a tool is something used to fix something else thanks man KC
BTW why do all of you guys always say LOL then are derogatory toward that person LOL means Lots of Love right????

laugh out loud, bro.

[kwaichang]

Thanks JP. But I truly think SW means Lots of LOve I dont care what you guys say. I can feel the good vibes from him. KC:)

[Baqualin]

Just call it like I see it thats all BTW do I aggravate you BQ do I huh Do I ?? I think not / Besides a tool is something used to fix something else thanks man KC
BTW why do all of you guys always say LOL then are derogatory toward that person LOL means Lots of Love right????

You can't aggravate me, I know how nice of a person you really are.:D
BQ

[BM2]

Thanks JP. But I truly think SW means Lots of LOve I dont care what you guys say. I can feel the good vibes from him. KC:)

Im pickin up good vibrations
SW is giving me excitations
Im pickin up good vibrations
(oom bop bop good vibrations)
SW is giving me excitations
(oom bop bop excitations)
Good good good good vibrations
(oom bop bop)
SW is giving me excitations
(oom bop bop excitations)
Good good good good vibrations
(oom bop bop)
SW is giving me excitations
(oom bop bop excitations)


With apologizes to the Beach Boys

[Shaolin Wookie]

I don't care much for Shaolin Wookie because of the way he posts, look at his signature. When he called KC a tool it was like calling the kettle black. I'm fairly certain that he feels the same about me and chances are he is correct:o

Wait, who are you? I'm not sure that I've ever seen you post here before. :confused:

[Shaolin Wookie]

Thanks JP. But I truly think SW means Lots of LOve I dont care what you guys say. I can feel the good vibes from him. KC:)

LOL.....I've got nothing against you. I just think you should change your name to K(f)C.

Can't say that doesn't go for all of us. After all, we're all doing a variety of Kentucky Fried Shaolin.

[Baqualin]

LOL.....I've got nothing against you. I just think you should change your name to K(f)C.

Can't say that doesn't go for all of us. After all, we're all doing a variety of Kentucky Fried Shaolin.

Amen to that Bro.......keep being a tool Wook....you make me laugh.:D
BQ

[kwaichang]

Was just reading a book describing the higher Martial level of Zen in Martial arts. It states to not dwell on one technique or you will miss the Way/Tao. Anyway it made me think about all the Forms we learn all of which have merit and are a way to an end as they say. With that in mind I feel what we are doing by not clinging to one way but many ways are in keeping with the higher ideals of Shaolin. If I train in many methods though I may not catch completely the Nuances at first eventually I will and by learning more then I am in keeping with the duality of Chan / Zen. I am therefore doing something in keeping with the Shaolin that are of old. So to not cling to one method but embracing many we in SD are coming closer to being what we aspire to be "MORE SHAOLIN LIKE". So if you want to call us KfC that is OK because without the 11 herbs and spices the KfC would not exist much like the awsome art of Shaolin Do. KC
BTW Shaolin Wookie if you do not respect and like what you do then might i suggest you do something else.??

[BM2]

[QUOTE=kwaichang;847378] So if you want to call us KfC that is OK because without the 11 herbs and spices the KfC would not exist QUOTE]

Just read this today. It was only a matter of time till they nailed the Colonel.

DRIGGS, Idaho — Perhaps they should have called her Mary Jane.

A surprise birthday party for Dawn Wells, the actress who played Mary Ann on "Gilligan's Island," ended with a nearly three-hour tour of the Teton County sheriff's office and jail when the 69-year-old was caught with marijuana in her vehicle while driving home.

[Mas Judt]

If I train in many methods though I may not catch completely the Nuances at first eventually I will and by learning more then I am in keeping with the duality of Chan / Zen. I am therefore doing something in keeping with the Shaolin that are of old.

Made me spit my 2003 Coppola claret out. THis is the funniest thing I've read in ages. 'the duality of zen?!?'

Dude, you are a rock star comedian.

[kwaichang]

Sorry Mas Man I was just quoteing from the book forgot the " " KC

[Mas Judt]

Hah! I thought you were trying to be funny in a very clever way in the context of this whole thread.

[Judge Pen]

I'm a cynic. If I don't see it I don't believe it. As far as outlandish claims, I've heard a few whoppers about other teachers as well; what's your point? You live in a glass house my friend. How are the push-ups over the burning incense coming?

[Lamassu]

He has no point JP, he never did. He's just trying to get a rise out of you. Notice he says the same crap over and over and over again. The miserable b@st@rd still thinks "drinking the cool aid" is still funny and makes him cool. The sad thing for this loser is that all the martial artists who post here and are from so called 'respectable' schools, thinks he's full of sh!t too.

mkriii - laying the smack down on you used to be fun, now it's just sad. Let it go man.

[TrollTerminator]

All that matters is that I amuse my self.

That's because your the only one amused by you.
I know who you are.....I know what you do......I know where you live & even your phone #.

Don't fear the night.......fear what hunts at night.:cool:
TT

[kungfujunky]

All that matters is that I amuse my self.

your instructor would be so proud


:confused:

[kwaichang]

I will be up on the 29th how bout you beat my a$$ " Yo Go For It" You wuss. KC

[Judge Pen]

The push ups are coming along quite nicely. It's making me tough. Every time the inscence touches my stomack I think of beating your sorry butt. It motivates me. How do ya like them apples Fred? Your a LARPer!!!!!!

*yawn*

what the hell is a stomack? Good to see your edumacation at work.

[BentMonk]

All that matters is that I amuse my self.

No wonder your posts are lame...you're typing with one hand!:eek:

[Shaolin Wookie]

BTW Shaolin Wookie if you do not respect and like what you do then might i suggest you do something else.??

Haha......I'll chalk up our differences to age and geography. Clearly, we don't share the same sense of humor. At ease, solider. I like what I do, and I cross train for kicks. :rolleyes: (rolling eyes refer to the horrible pun).

[Shaolin Wookie]

The push ups are coming along quite nicely. It's making me tough. Every time the inscence touches my stomack I think of beating your sorry butt. It motivates me. How do ya like them apples Fred? Your a LARPer!!!!!!

Lol....he gets off on dipping his nipples in hot wax. Better to be a LARPer than a DIPPER.......:D

Don't be a LAR-Playa Hata, young Mortal Kombat III.

[Shaolin Wookie]

All that matters is that I abuse my self.

Ahhhh! The visions! [pokes out eyes]



Oh no! They're still there!!!:eek:

[Baqualin]

No wonder your posts are lame...you're typing with one hand!:eek:

NICE!!!!!!!:D

[mkriii]

Judge, are you an English teacher? Apparentely you are sense you feel the need to check my spelling.

[Citong Shifu]

*yawn*

what the hell is a stomack? Good to see your edumacation at work.

Our tax dollars at work, lol... :D

[mkriii]

Good morning my SD friends. How are you all doing this fine morning. GM Sin said that you didn't have to dring cool aid today, you may drink orange juice instead. He said that orange juice will make you be able to do the wonderous feats that he has accomplished. So drink up kiddies. So has is your all's training coming along? Learn any new deadly and rare techniques? Have you learned the Golden Shower form yet or is it the Golden Centipede, I forget. Any how, hope your day will be as joyous as mine. Take care SD friends.

[arinathos.valin]

Before JP points it out, mkriii, you spelled "apparently" wrong...

Maybe you do need an english teacher...

[mkriii]

Oh thanks for pointing that out to me. I'm sure Judge will appreciate that too. I actually thought htis was a martial art forum though not an on line English class. But thanks anyways for the spelling check. I'll come to you next time if I'm having trouble with spelling a word. Bye the way I purposely misspelled some words in this post to give you and Judge something to look for. Let me know when you find the mistakes. Take care :D

[Judge Pen]

Judge, are you an English teacher? Apparentely you are sense you feel the need to check my spelling. Nope. Normally I'd pass it off as a simple typo, but the content of your posts also reveals that you're an idiot. :p

[MasterKiller]

http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/moran.jpg

[mkriii]

Nope. Normally I'd pass it off as a simple typo, but the content of your posts also reveals that you're an idiot. :p


Is that the best you can come up with......."I'm an idiot"? Come on, be more creative than that. If anyone is an idiot it is you for taking up for SD. You know what Barnum & Bailey said.....There's a sucker born every minute. You just keep drinking your cool aid and thinking you are the SH** and one day when you'll need to call apon that knowledge you learned in SD and you'll probably get your arse whoooped because it no good and unpracticle. You only need look at the cover of GM Sin's book and you'll see that its a joke. He's standing in a crane stance wearing tennis shoes.....New Balance tennis shoes at that, not even a good brand of shoes. And he's got his arm spread in what appears to be an ATTEMPT to look like crane wings. His wordrobe kind of takes away from the look that I think that he was trying for. It look like a joke. I almost busted out laughing.

[kungfujunky]

again your instructor must be so proud. no matter what fun you may think you are having you are a disrespectful tactless internet punk.

you have questioned and labeled and insulted just about everyone here with your drivel and yet have never had the sack to man up and cross hands. what better way to value what someone knows than to fight them?

reminds me of the line in the second Matrix movie. "you don't really know someone until you fight them" (or something close to that)

it is your incessant childishness that makes me wonder if you even train in what you say you do. i find it exceedingly hard to believe any sensei/teacher/instructor/master would condone the behavior you exhibit on here.

you are a stain to the art you practice and should be ashamed of yourself.

[tattooedmonk]

No wonder your posts are lame...you're typing with one hand!:eek: TOO FUNNY!!:D

[DPL]

Go away for a few months and everything stays pretty much exactly the same.

mkriiiiiiiiiii,
Yew arr sew kewl, wit yore clevur speling triks an wittily banterisms. Awl rasist bassturds kan ownly aspeyre two bee mor lik ewe. Maybee whin yoo finaly grad... grad... git owt uv joonior hi skool, yew kin starrt yer on kult sense ewe arr sew fassinated bye thim.

Doofus.

[Golden Tiger]

In all honesty Mark, your silly posts are just that...silly. Its one thing to throw out a slam here and there, everyone does it and some of them are quite clever. But yours...they seem to be mindless rambling. I seriously wonder if you even know what the reference to being a kool-aid (not cool aid mind you) really means? No originality, no wit, no substance.

And to read that you are an instructor, that leads me to think that you are more than likely not able to teach very well either.

You seem to have a distain for SD and Master Sin but you are one of the few on here with the unique chance to put your money where your mouth is. You live in Lexington, know where the gym is and could easily stop by and prove to all how your martial arts and intelect are superior.

BQ has repeatedly invited you over to workout, cross hands or just discuss the differences between the reality of SD and your perception of SD and yet you never seem to make it over. KC has on many ocassions invited you to meet and compare notes so to speak. Heck, I would even goes as far as stopping by some Saturday morning or anytime after the regular classes and have a very friendly and coridal exchange of techniques and information. I know both BQ and KC very well and they are both very nice, stand-up gentlemen who would gladly work out with you to see your implied short comings of SD. They are not making "net challenges or vieled threats. As for myself, I have trained at onetime or another with a student of just about every style out there and have always shown respect for them and what there training can bring to the table and perhaps improve mine.

So, there you have it. Put up or shut up. At the very least, look up "sarcasm" and learn to do it with a little better pazazz....:rolleyes:

[sean_stonehart]

MKIII ... you really are a tool. Plain & simple.

I have my points of contention with SD, but at least they have relevence. I've at least touched hands with SD people when I was in SD, after I left SD & still now. Skills are skills. You're mouth boxing *and badly* with invitations for both friendly & maybe not so from several different SD people. Man up or take the ***** seat.

You're spouting off just to watch your fingers go. You're more caught up in SD than most people in SD, y'know.

Seriously... you're a tool with this.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Judge, are you an English teacher? Apparentely you are sense you feel the need to check my spelling.

Two more sentences, two more grammar mistakes. JP's the lawyer. I'm the English man.;)

[Shaolin Wookie]

Is that the best you can come up with......."I'm an idiot"? Come on, be more creative than that. If anyone is an idiot it is you for taking up for SD. You know what Barnum & Bailey said.....There's a sucker born every minute. You just keep drinking your cool aid and thinking you are the SH** and one day when you'll need to call apon that knowledge you learned in SD and you'll probably get your arse whoooped because it no good and unpracticle. You only need look at the cover of GM Sin's book and you'll see that its a joke. He's standing in a crane stance wearing tennis shoes.....New Balance tennis shoes at that, not even a good brand of shoes. And he's got his arm spread in what appears to be an ATTEMPT to look like crane wings. His wordrobe kind of takes away from the look that I think that he was trying for. It look like a joke. I almost busted out laughing.


Owe yah? Well I was passing bye you're dojo the other day, and I saw you're sensesay parctissing like a hobo with some guy wareing an Speed-0, and he were all like: "Look at me! I'm a pritty little girl!" and then he did like a bach-flip with a triple-gainer and a side budderfligh twist, but he didint stick the landing. Then the uther persin in the dojo padded him on the but and was like "Did you ever si that movie Stick It?" Then you're sensesay were like to saying: "Yeah, its only like totallie like the bestest movie since in forever!" Thin the guy in the Speed0 sayd some thing like: "Id like to Stick You!" And then they went into the bach room and watched Stick It and made out for like an hower.

Amateur.....it weren't even a regulation Speed-Oh. More like Slow-Oh!

Hwarararawra!

He thin started for to do the preying mantis, and he was totallie like a catorpiller rather then a mantiss. So I called the extraminator and had him eradicallated.

Hwarararawra!

Hold on. I have to for to go drink my Drain-Oh like my dauchtor told for me to do. Bet your wishing you was me!

Hwarararawra!

[Judge Pen]

MRKiii, it says something when non-SD people are calling you out too. Several people on these forums have issues with SD but they can at least speak coherently about the issues. All you do is act like an immature little kid. I think you were, what 13, when you trained in SD? From your posts it seems you never grew out of that 13 year old mindset.

Keep thinking I couldn't defend myself. That's fine with me--I want people to underestimate me. It seems that you do.

[kwaichang]

HEEEEEEEERS Johnnie, Mkriii how bout it man this what 5 times you wont even respond to my posts what you CHICKEN ????? I guess so. Sorry guys he just wont put up and definately wont shut up so there you are. KC:confused:

[tattooedmonk]

MRKiii, it says something when non-SD people are calling you out too. Several people on these forums have issues with SD but they can at least speak coherently about the issues. All you do is act like an immature little kid. I think you were, what 13, when you trained in SD? From your posts it seems you never grew out of that 13 year old mindset.

Keep thinking I couldn't defend myself. That's fine with me--I want people to underestimate me. It seems that you do.BURN!!!!:D

[Shaolin Wookie]

Hey guys, I watched this vid again:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=6004254

Are you guys sure this "ground dragon" isn't Dog Boxing. I mentioned once that the Chinese refer to Dog Boxing as "Earth Dragon" Boxing, and from what I've seen of Dog Boxing, this fits the bill. The sweeps, the suicide kicks, etc....

Does anyone know the pinyin for the form?

(And when it the style might come to ATL?:D)

[BlueTravesty]

Good morning my SD friends. How are you all doing this fine morning. GM Sin said that you didn't have to dring cool aid today, you may drink orange juice instead. He said that orange juice will make you be able to do the wonderous feats that he has accomplished. So drink up kiddies. So has is your all's training coming along? Learn any new deadly and rare techniques? Have you learned the Golden Shower form yet or is it the Golden Centipede, I forget. Any how, hope your day will be as joyous as mine. Take care SD friends.

Is anyone else mildly disturbed that this fellow has trouble with "drink" and "sense/since" but spells Golden Shower correctly with grace and aplomb? Anyone?

[shadowlin]

Hey guys, I watched this vid again:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=6004254

Are you guys sure this "ground dragon" isn't Dog Boxing. I mentioned once that the Chinese refer to Dog Boxing as "Earth Dragon" Boxing, and from what I've seen of Dog Boxing, this fits the bill. The sweeps, the suicide kicks, etc....

Does anyone know the pinyin for the form?

(And when it the style might come to ATL?:D)

Joe is a ****ing beast. You can quote me on that.

Fantastic. Also, the music for that form was very interesting, and creative. Not Back in Black or TNT... thank God.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Joe is a ****ing beast. You can quote me on that.

Fantastic. Also, the music for that form was very interesting, and creative. Not Back in Black or TNT... thank God.

What's wrong with a little AC/DC? At least he wasn't playing the Wong Fei Hung theme song....LOL....

[arinathos.valin]

Let's give mkriii his due. We might reach 600 pages a lot faster with him posting...

I was about to write something along the lines of what sean_stonehart wrote, but he already stated it so eloquently. Nicely put.

[kwaichang]

Take a look at this.

[sean_stonehart]

Take a look at this.

I dunno about the temples, but it looks exactly like the sign at Zhao Chang jun's school in Xi'an that greeted us in 2001. Later that night it was also at the T'ang Dynasty theatre show & dumpling restaurant. It wasn't at Liang's Shaolin school in Dengfeng 2 days before.

[BM2]

Yeah they went on (the guides) about how good the dumplings were at the show and I thought that they were saying that because they had never had my mom's chicken and dumplings.
Oh, but the dumplings were that good. And that rice wine:D Man those were really good dumplings, I think that there were 21 different types? Anyway, I liked about nineteen of them!

[sean_stonehart]

Yeah they went on (the guides) about how good the dumplings were at the show and I thought that they were saying that because they had never had my mom's chicken and dumplings.
Oh, but the dumplings were that good. And that rice wine:D Man those were really good dumplings, I think that there were 21 different types? Anyway, I liked about nineteen of them!

The dumplings were ok... I guess they were that good because of the stuff we had in Henan, I dunno.

The rice wine?? OMG... I was so hung over for the flight to Tibet, but that junk was great!!!!!!

[TrollTerminator]

Is that the best you can come up with......."I'm an idiot"? Come on, be more creative than that. If anyone is an idiot it is you for taking up for SD. You know what Barnum & Bailey said.....There's a sucker born every minute. You just keep drinking your cool aid and thinking you are the SH** and one day when you'll need to call apon that knowledge you learned in SD and you'll probably get your arse whoooped because it no good and unpracticle. You only need look at the cover of GM Sin's book and you'll see that its a joke. He's standing in a crane stance wearing tennis shoes.....New Balance tennis shoes at that, not even a good brand of shoes. And he's got his arm spread in what appears to be an ATTEMPT to look like crane wings. His wordrobe kind of takes away from the look that I think that he was trying for. It look like a joke. I almost busted out laughing.

You are an idiot......racist........pervert, and a Troll.......I'm the Troll Terminator and you will be terminated.......I know where you can be found MARK.........DON'T FEAR THE NIGHT.......FEAR WHAT HUNTS AT NIGHT:)
TT

[BM2]

The dumplings were ok... I guess they were that good because of the stuff we had in Henan, I dunno.

The rice wine?? OMG... I was so hung over for the flight to Tibet, but that junk was great!!!!!!


Oh man, I recall that stuff in Henan:eek: I really recall waking up at 4:00 a.m. with my stomach hurting so much as I ran to the toilet just in time. I had stopped taking the pepto bismal because I was starting to pass precious jade everytime I left a dump. It seems I stopped taking it one day too soon though.

[sean_stonehart]

Oh man, I recall that stuff in Henan:eek: I really recall waking up at 4:00 a.m. with my stomach hurting so much as I ran to the toilet just in time. I had stopped taking the pepto bismal because I was starting to pass precious jade everytime I left a dump. It seems I stopped taking it one day too soon though.

I ate Pepto from the time we arrived at the airport in Guangzhou til we got back to LAX & I had a margarita & burrito in the terminal.

I just didn't eat in Henan if I could help it. If I couldn't I tried to eat whatever looked fried. That went double in Wenxian. I had beer there... lots of that, but nothing to eat until we got back to Zhengzhou that night.

Jade I got in Xian at the night market & in Beijing. I wish I'd gotten some of the black mayflower jade in Luoyang, but oh well. Sometimes you miss on things.

[The Willow Sword]

Havent been here in a bit. wont comment about Mrkiii posts. As i am reading it looks as if some of you went on another China trip. okay so here is the question. Did ANYONE who was there, who likes high quality green tea, happen to buy some in a decent quantity and bring it back? i have always been into the green tea and pretty much spend my money on high quality loose leaf oolong, green oolong, and white along with the Puh Erh(red tea) as well. But was wondering if any of you had the opportunity to try the local tea faire?

Peace to all,,,TWS

[tattooedmonk]

Havent been here in a bit. wont comment about Mrkiii posts. As i am reading it looks as if some of you went on another China trip. okay so here is the question. Did ANYONE who was there, who likes high quality green tea, happen to buy some in a decent quantity and bring it back? i have always been into the green tea and pretty much spend my money on high quality loose leaf oolong, green oolong, and white along with the Puh Erh(red tea) as well. But was wondering if any of you had the opportunity to try the local tea faire?

Peace to all,,,TWSNot that you were asking me but, I found this great place in San Francisco called www.redblossomtea.com. Great stuff.

[tattooedmonk]

Tantui /Lohan ,does anyone have any history on this form of SD training other than it was originally 108 forms and comes from Shantung???

[bodhi warrior]

I seen on sin's DVD that these forms came from jie shou fu, a teacher at central shaolin along with ie chang ming.

[tattooedmonk]

I seen on sin's DVD that these forms came from jie shou fu, a teacher at central shaolin along with ie chang ming.Which DVD??

[bodhi warrior]

Go to shaolinlegends.com they have 3 vids of gm sin giving talks about the history of different styles in sd.

[sean_stonehart]

Havent been here in a bit. wont comment about Mrkiii posts. As i am reading it looks as if some of you went on another China trip. okay so here is the question. Did ANYONE who was there, who likes high quality green tea, happen to buy some in a decent quantity and bring it back? i have always been into the green tea and pretty much spend my money on high quality loose leaf oolong, green oolong, and white along with the Puh Erh(red tea) as well. But was wondering if any of you had the opportunity to try the local tea faire?

Peace to all,,,TWS



I hate tea... it was worse there than what you get in restaurants. I generally drank beer or Coke. Except at Shaolin Temple where I had the best Orange Soda of my life and in Tibet I was downing about a gallon of bottled H2O a day to help deal with the altitude.

[Yao Sing]

I dunno about the temples, but it looks exactly like the sign at Zhao Chang jun's school in Xi'an that greeted us in 2001. Later that night it was also at the T'ang Dynasty theatre show & dumpling restaurant. It wasn't at Liang's Shaolin school in Dengfeng 2 days before.

When were you there in 2001? I was at Liang's in September. We flew back in on the 10th and wouldn't have made it home if we didn't get out of Tokyo before the typhoon hit. So Degfeng would have bee around the 5th (my birthday) or so, I don't remember exactly. We spent 4 days in Zhengzhou.

Oh yeah, shhh. Don't even think about bringing up that story. :eek:

[sean_stonehart]

When were you there in 2001? I was at Liang's in September. We flew back in on the 10th and wouldn't have made it home if we didn't get out of Tokyo before the typhoon hit. So Degfeng would have bee around the 5th (my birthday) or so, I don't remember exactly. We spent 4 days in Zhengzhou.

Oh yeah, shhh. Don't even think about bringing up that story. :eek:

Story... what story??? Oh you mean... :eek::eek::p

I was there late May, early June '01.

Liang had just moved into the big school on the side of the hill on the road to Shaolin from Dengfeng.

[BM2]

I really liked the tea, there were so many different flavors in it and every place had a different one. Only once though, it did suck. It tasted like dirt.
Hey, how about the jars with the lizards and stuff in each one. I thought you would die if you drank from it. I had the chicken foot soup in Tibet. Did you make it to the Hard Yak Cafe ?

[bakxierboxer]

.... I had the chicken foot soup in Tibet.

I had the Chicken Foot Soup nearer to home (at the time).... on Mott Street in NYC Chinatown. Good stuff! Lubes the joints rather nicely!

Did you make it to the Hard Yak Cafe ?

Didn't have one of those though....... not even a soft one.
(although I guess we could try for a couple of yuks....)

[sean_stonehart]

I really liked the tea, there were so many different flavors in it and every place had a different one. Only once though, it did suck. It tasted like dirt.
Hey, how about the jars with the lizards and stuff in each one. I thought you would die if you drank from it. I had the chicken foot soup in Tibet. Did you make it to the Hard Yak Cafe ?

Ah the Hard Yak. Yeah... ate there for lunch the day of the wedding. It was a God send at that point. Burger, fries, coke... I've got a pic of me somewhere with some folks chomping down there. Surprisingly, the Ted's Montana Grill Buffalo Burger is similar to the Yak... minus the yak stink.

I probably had the soup & don't remember it. The first couple of days are still a blur from lack of o2. It wasn't until after we got back from Yamdrok that things clear up save for pictures.

[Yao Sing]

Story... what story??? Oh you mean... :eek::eek::p

I was there late May, early June '01.

Liang had just moved into the big school on the side of the hill on the road to Shaolin from Dengfeng.

I was there in 1998 and the dorms were still under construction but it was somewhat operational. They were still doing the show a few doors down from the Temple though. That was before they moved the village and i really thought the next time I went back there would be a Shaolin McDonalds there.

[Citong Shifu]

Hey guys, I watched this vid again:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=6004254

Are you guys sure this "ground dragon" isn't Dog Boxing. I mentioned once that the Chinese refer to Dog Boxing as "Earth Dragon" Boxing, and from what I've seen of Dog Boxing, this fits the bill. The sweeps, the suicide kicks, etc....

Does anyone know the pinyin for the form?

(And when it the style might come to ATL?:D)


Thats definitely "NOT" dog boxing ( Di Shu Quan). Not sure if its dragon boxing, but then again, I dont train SD.

Take Care
CS

[Shaolin Wookie]

Tantui /Lohan ,does anyone have any history on this form of SD training other than it was originally 108 forms and comes from Shantung???


Yeah, I think that other dude mentioned the Shaolin Legends DVD's. Essentially, there was some kind of challenge match between (I think) GGM Ie and some other martial arts master at one of their schools, and afterwards they exchanged what they thought the best techniques in their systems were. He mentions that GGM Ie used a lot of hte Ground Dragon techniques in the match. After the encounter, which ended in a stalemate, GGM Ie decided to model the short forms on those collected techniques to mark the occasion, and the focus of them became SD's controversial short-form-"snap", which basically means--hit the ****ing hell out of whatever you're throwing a punch at.:D

But really, if you've ever seen the Tan Tui, you'll recognize every one of the movements in the form.

However, from what I've read/seen, Tan Tui is taught in smaller sections of small movements, and isn't really a "complete" form, even though it can be strung together--which would be more like what we teach.

But I might be wrong, so if someone better informed can offer the info, better to listen to him or her.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Thats definitely "NOT" dog boxing ( Di Shu Quan). Not sure if its dragon boxing, but then again, I dont train SD.

Take Care
CS

Cool. It was the ground techniques that had me thinkin'.....because dog boxing, when on the ground, takes a lot of those same postures--the leg up kicks (like a dog taking a wizz), etc., and the excessive amounts of sweeps. But then, I think I've only seen wushu versions of Di Shu Quan.

[Judge Pen]

Thats definitely "NOT" dog boxing ( Di Shu Quan). Not sure if its dragon boxing, but then again, I dont train SD.

Take Care
CS

Well it's not southern dragon. :p Seriously, have you seen any style that called itself "ground dragon" outside of SD. Curious to see if there is something to compare it to.

[sean_stonehart]

Well it's not southern dragon. :p

You are correct barrister!!


Seriously, have you seen any style that called itself "ground dragon" outside of SD. Curious to see if there is something to compare it to.

Nope... only dragon stuff I've seen is the Ken(m)po offshoot super secrect family stuff, or some bagua (Swimming Dragon).

[mkriii]

Good morning SD people. How are you all doing this fine morning? You won't hear any negative comments from me today or ever again (just like I said in my last post). It's a new me. Well, just wanted to say good morning to all.

[sean_stonehart]

Good morning SD people. How are you all doing this fine morning? You won't hear any negative comments from me today or ever again (just like I said in my last post). It's a new me. Well, just wanted to say good morning to all.

Actually in your last post you said nothing of the like & was rather ****ty to a good friend of mine.

Please... refresh your self... http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=848020&postcount=8565

[mkriii]

Well I thought that I said I was going to turn over a new leaf. My last post must have not been posted for some reason because I said that everyone knew my views and it didn't do any good to keep making negative remarks about SD so I was going to stop (which I plan to do UNLESS you all would like me to keep going with the negative comments). I'm just trying to make a posative contribution to the conversation from here on.

[Judge Pen]

Good morning SD people. How are you all doing this fine morning? You won't hear any negative comments from me today or ever again (just like I said in my last post). It's a new me. Well, just wanted to say good morning to all.

What's the over/under on how long until the old mkriii rears his head?

[Golden Tiger]

What's the over/under on how long until the old mkriii rears his head?

Over: 1 day
Under: next post

[Eternal Student]

Well I thought that I said I was going to turn over a new leaf. My last post must have not been posted for some reason because I said that everyone knew my views and it didn't do any good to keep making negative remarks about SD so I was going to stop (which I plan to do UNLESS you all would like me to keep going with the negative comments). I'm just trying to make a posative contribution to the conversation from here on.

We have heard this song and dance before...
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=803031&postcount=7262
What is it with you? You come on, talk **** for a day or so, and then lay low for a couple of days. Then, when you realize that no one is going to agree with your drivel, you say you’re sorry and that you won't do it again.
You have to realize by now you have ZERO credibility on this forum. If you want to make a positive contribution, then don't post anything.

[mkriii]

LMFAO..........Normally I would come back with a smart arse remark but not the new me. :D

[Eternal Student]

LMFAO..........Normally I would come back with a smart arse remark but not the new me. :D

Until a couple of days later, when you revert back to the old you.:rolleyes:

[mkriii]

Come on, stop it. Your just trying to bait me and it's not going to work. I think we should just have a big group hug:p Maybe sing the Barnie song. :D Or maybe even sing Kumbiall (sp?). :)

[Judge Pen]

Come on, stop it. Your just trying to bait me and it's not going to work. I think we should just have a big group hug:p Maybe sing the Barnie song. :D Or maybe even sing Kumbiall (sp?). :)

I'd pick on your spelling for Kumbaya, but I don't know how to spell it either.

[mkriii]

Lol........I wonder how you do spell that?

[sean_stonehart]

JP has it correct.

[Judge Pen]

JP has it correct.

I do? Ok, then mrkiii is an idiot for misspelling kumbaya! :D

[Baqualin]

I do? Ok, then mrkiii is an idiot for misspelling kumbaya! :D

You just couldn't resist!!:D
BQ

[TrollTerminator]

Come on, stop it. Your just trying to bait me and it's not going to work. I think we should just have a big group hug:p Maybe sing the Barnie song. :D Or maybe even sing Kumbiall (sp?). :)

I told you........... he is a pervert:eek:
TT

[kwaichang]

Hey BQ I will be in town next week end saturday for my lesson want to have a lunch or late lunch ?? Pm me and let me know KC

[Baqualin]

Hey BQ I will be in town next week end saturday for my lesson want to have a lunch or late lunch ?? Pm me and let me know KC

This Sat. or next Sat.??

[kwaichang]

The 29th BQ KC Lesson 1-3 pm

[shadowlin]

Yeah, I think that other dude mentioned the Shaolin Legends DVD's. Essentially, there was some kind of challenge match between (I think) GGM Ie and some other martial arts master at one of their schools, and afterwards they exchanged what they thought the best techniques in their systems were. He mentions that GGM Ie used a lot of hte Ground Dragon techniques in the match. After the encounter, which ended in a stalemate, GGM Ie decided to model the short forms on those collected techniques to mark the occasion, and the focus of them became SD's controversial short-form-"snap", which basically means--hit the ****ing hell out of whatever you're throwing a punch at.:D

But really, if you've ever seen the Tan Tui, you'll recognize every one of the movements in the form.

However, from what I've read/seen, Tan Tui is taught in smaller sections of small movements, and isn't really a "complete" form, even though it can be strung together--which would be more like what we teach.

But I might be wrong, so if someone better informed can offer the info, better to listen to him or her.

That was not GM Ie, that was a story he told to GM Sin. It was another master who gave the short forms.

Interestingly enough Master Nance has said that upon asking GM sin the hardest technique he ever had to master, GM Sin said "kata #1"

[Shaolin Wookie]

Yes, but what I found particularly comical about that story (I like the story, though) is that it was so blatantly in contradiction to the story about GGM Ie being the ex-Shaolin monk "rover". It set up a kind of lineage with established schools, not a Shaolin renegade pimping "authentic, straight-from-the-temple Shaolin."

[Shaolin Wookie]

KC in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.......:D

[kwaichang]

Who Me ? OK Ill take the bait Shaolin Wookie tell us the story you heard so we /I can derive if what you heard is what I heard. You know guys I have missed about 4-6 weeks of good hard training and I have had time to do some intellectual training and soul searching. Here is my opinion.

Much like Japanese styles are influenced by geographic and social areas so was Shaolin as it came out of the Temples. This would account for the physical/flavors of SD compared to other arts from Shaolin Much like Hung Gar and CLF many teachers teach them with different emphasis based upon their indeginous (sp).? developing. Ie : Indonesia Okinawa Japan Nort / South China etc.,etc. The Okinawan martial arts are different than those developed in Japan due to the philosophical differences of the area. As far as stories go , they are just stories, not to be taken as fact 100% but as a way to transfer the "legend" of Shaolin. Of which there are many, not just from SD. BTW remember GMT is telling stories he was told by training partners GM Ie and SKTJ to GM Ie. so I am sure there will be imbellishment and changes . So tell us what you heard. I for one miss training and am trying to make the best of a situation dont worry though SW I will still cross hands with you being the compromised practioner I am at this time HAHA. :) KC

[shen ku]

just dropped in haven't been on for,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe years,,,i JP and sean are doing good,, do you know who this is sean? hint china 2001

[sean_stonehart]

just dropped in haven't been on for,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe years,,,i JP and sean are doing good,, do you know who this is sean? hint china 2001

The ONLY man I know to take what... 5 lbs of peanut butter, oatmeal & the like half way around the world to a country where he knows before he left he didn't like the cooking maybe?? :eek::eek:

Also... could be the same guy that had his pants come undone (but not drop to display the tighty whities) at a demo in Xi'an??? :eek::eek:

[Judge Pen]

just dropped in haven't been on for,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe years,,,i JP and sean are doing good,, do you know who this is sean? hint china 2001

Still punching and kicking. How's things in Kentucky? It's weird to see Tennessee still in the tournament and Ky is out of it.

[shen ku]

that would be me, still dont like the food, and JP ok UK is out but i was really suprised they even made it? but hay WKU is still there? ya i am still kicking , have you had the golden leopard?

[Judge Pen]

that would be me, still dont like the food, and JP ok UK is out but i was really suprised they even made it? but hay WKU is still there? ya i am still kicking , have you had the golden leopard?

Yeah, I've had them, but I haven't kept them worked up. Testing during that time will focus your priorities to other things!

[kwaichang]

Go there and key in Wu Shu Masters China KC enjoy

[sean_stonehart]

Ok... lots of modern stuff... is there something we're supposed to see? :confused:

[kwaichang]

Can you flip around and go into a split ???? well just enjoy the athleticism.
Question who is the greater athlete Ron Jeremy or Lance armstrong??? KC

[sean_stonehart]

Flip into a split?? Are you serious?!?!?!?! If I did that I'd feel & everybody in a 5 mile radius would hear, my lower body breaking.

Ron Jeremy... definately...

[Shaolin Wookie]

Who Me ? OK Ill take the bait Shaolin Wookie tell us the story you heard so we /I can derive if what you heard is what I heard. You know guys I have missed about 4-6 weeks of good hard training and I have had time to do some intellectual training and soul searching. Here is my opinion.

Much like Japanese styles are influenced by geographic and social areas so was Shaolin as it came out of the Temples. This would account for the physical/flavors of SD compared to other arts from Shaolin Much like Hung Gar and CLF many teachers teach them with different emphasis based upon their indeginous (sp).? developing. Ie : Indonesia Okinawa Japan Nort / South China etc.,etc. The Okinawan martial arts are different than those developed in Japan due to the philosophical differences of the area. As far as stories go , they are just stories, not to be taken as fact 100% but as a way to transfer the "legend" of Shaolin. Of which there are many, not just from SD. BTW remember GMT is telling stories he was told by training partners GM Ie and SKTJ to GM Ie. so I am sure there will be imbellishment and changes . So tell us what you heard. I for one miss training and am trying to make the best of a situation dont worry though SW I will still cross hands with you being the compromised practioner I am at this time HAHA. :) KC

LOL.....

I'd have to re-watch the DVD, and maybe I will so we can discuss.

As for me, my opinion's pretty clear. Stories are stories are stories. GM Sin didn't pull SD out of his ass, no matter what these KFM pundits say.:D

It came from GGM Ie, that much seems clear--as both Sin and his brother (who don't seem to see eye-to-eye in all matters) have pretty much the same cirriculum. Occam's Razor pretty much supports the obvious.

As for where that came from....anybody's guess. Looks like a mishmash of styles that were labelled Shao-lin, despite their probable origin. IF we doubt GM Sin learned what he learned in his time as a student, we'd have to doubt his capacity to make up as many forms as the system claims he has, while still retaining his capacity to perform forms with the lyrics and explain applications (which he still does at his age, better than some of the chinese teachers I've seen younger than him)...LOL.....

I like the system. The meditiations, the I Chin Ching, the forms, the style. For me, it's just kung fu, ya know? Shaolin? Ehhhh.....at least Shaolin-esque.

[kwaichang]

OK KOOOOOOOL I can agree with that KC

[bodhi warrior]

I've been doing some searches on the internet about this style and have found that there are many different versions. Does anyone know the history of SD's version? and is there any styles similar to ours? also when were these originally taught out?
thanks

[Baqualin]

The 29th BQ KC Lesson 1-3 pm

I teach from 10 to 12.....I can cut it a little early and do a quick lunch before your lesson. Let me know.
You can also get here early and help out in class.... your input would be welcome:cool:
BQ

[Shaolin Wookie]

I've been doing some searches on the internet about this style and have found that there are many different versions. Does anyone know the history of SD's version? and is there any styles similar to ours? also when were these originally taught out?
thanks

From what I've seen, they look the same. Of course, none of our forms have a 1:1 translation into another art in terms of the layout of the form--which I actually consider SD's strength, whereas others consider it a detraction (conformists!:p). But you see the same strikes, the same body postures, the same techniques.

[bodhi warrior]

I've have seen similarities in the individual techniques, and I do agree that our forms being performed differently is a strength. They seem stripped of all the flowery excess and more geared to simplicity and practicality.

[Ground Dragon]

I just stopped by and couldn't believe this thread is still going. Hope all is well with everyone.

[kwaichang]

Yeah it is still going on but the original subject hasnt been discussed in quite a while. I guess all of the sources have been exhausted and no one made a definitive statement of truth so after 500 or 600 pages nothing is proven or disproven KC

[Baqualin]

Yeah it is still going on but the original subject hasnt been discussed in quite a while. I guess all of the sources have been exhausted and no one made a definitive statement of truth so after 500 or 600 pages nothing is proven or disproven KC

Hey man...where were you Sat.?
BQ

[kwaichang]

I called ,did Master B get my message?? I hope so. The weather would not permit the drive I was going like 30 mph for an hour or so would not make it on time so I calleded canceled but "Ill be Back" KC

[Baqualin]

I called ,did Master B get my message?? I hope so. The weather would not permit the drive I was going like 30 mph for an hour or so would not make it on time so I calleded canceled but "Ill be Back" KC

I'm sure he did......both of us were really busy....I had a full class + a couple of new b's........give me a heads up when your coming back in.
BQ

[Judge Pen]

OK got a question.......Sin The' is the Grandmaster of SD. His brother is Grandmaster of Central Shaolin. How did his brother get to be a grandmaster? Does anyone know who promoted him to 10th degree or was this a self promotion? And whats the difference between SD and Central Shaolin? Come to think of it what the heck is Central Shaolin? Sounds bogus to me.

You'll have to ask Hiang The or some of his students. I have no idea. Weren't you around when Sin and Hiang were still teaching? What rank was Sin The'? What rank was Hiang The'?

[Eternal Student]

OK got a question.......Sin The' is the Grandmaster of SD. His brother is Grandmaster of Central Shaolin. How did his brother get to be a grandmaster? Does anyone know who promoted him to 10th degree or was this a self promotion? And whats the difference between SD and Central Shaolin? Come to think of it what the heck is Central Shaolin? Sounds bogus to me.

Here is a novel idea. Since you are so interested, why don't you e-mail THEM and find out for yourself. Better to get information directly from the people who know, don't you think? Here is their e-mail address if you have difficulties. mail@centralshaolin.com

[tattooedmonk]

OK got a question.......Sin The' is the Grandmaster of SD. His brother is Grandmaster of Central Shaolin. How did his brother get to be a grandmaster? Does anyone know who promoted him to 10th degree or was this a self promotion? And whats the difference between SD and Central Shaolin? Come to think of it what the heck is Central Shaolin? Sounds bogus to me.Why not read his website?? As far the differences, why not do your own comparison?? You should go into both the schools and tell them who you are, how you feel about the Masters and the material. I do not know if you will find anything different in either school. Getting your @$$ kicked is pretty universal!!:DCentral Shaolin refers to the location of the Original Shaolin Temple.

[tattooedmonk]

When I was taking classes at the Sports Center Haing The' was a 7th degree black belt and Sin The' was a 9th degree black belt. He might have already been a 10th degree but I don't think so. I find it strange that Haing The' is now GM.
It's his own system , he is a master and he has taught people up to master. Grandmaster= Master of Masters

[mkriii]

Here is a novel idea. Since you are so interested, why don't you e-mail THEM and find out for yourself. Better to get information directly from the people who know, don't you think? Here is their e-mail address if you have difficulties. mail@centralshaolin.com


Why such an attitude, I was just curious about Haing The' being a GM. No need to get an attitude. Thought someone here might know the answer. Excuse me.

[tattooedmonk]

You'll have to ask Hiang The or some of his students. I have no idea. Weren't you around when Sin and Hiang were still teaching? What rank was Sin The'? What rank was Hiang The'?From what I heard Hiang is still teaching daily classes.

[brucereiter]

OK got a question.......Sin The' is the Grandmaster of SD. His brother is Grandmaster of Central Shaolin. How did his brother get to be a grandmaster?
Does anyone know who promoted him to 10th degree or was this a self promotion?
i do not know the facts for sure but i think his senior students made hiang grandmaster after the "split"


And whats the difference between SD and Central Shaolin?
look for yourself.
http://www.shaolingrandmaster.com
http://www.centralshaolin.com/cshaolin_pages/intro.html


Come to think of it what the heck is Central Shaolin? Sounds bogus to me.

that is one thing that is not bogus.

translation
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/diploma.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/diploma.jpg

original
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/1sintherankcert-05.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/1sintherankcert-05.jpg

[brucereiter]

Those are some pretty nice looking diplomas but I can't read Chinese. Can you? For all I know it says that Americans are full of S***. I don't know what it says. I'll take your word for it though.

i figured so i also put a link to the translation ...

[brucereiter]

Well isn't that sweet of you to be so considerate. :)

does that answer your question?

[Eternal Student]

No not really because I can easily make a diploma on the computer that looks just as authentic that says that I'm a 15th degree black belt in whatever style and then sign any masters name on it. Thats the beauty of computer technology.

Then no amount of photo proof submitted to this forum is trustworthy, by your logic. What exactly are you looking for, then?

[brucereiter]

I'm not really looking for any proof of his belt level. I'm just saying that besides paper (diploma) proof is there anyone that can vouch that so and so (Great Grandmaste I) promoted him to that rank? Was anyone present during this rank promotion? To my understanding the answer is no. If I'm wrong then please correct me. As I understand GM Sin left for China an 8th degree and came back a 10th degree. When I studied at the Sports center he was a 8th degree and that was in 1984 or so. I would question anyone that claimed to be a 10th degree GM, it's not just Sin The'. This is just good common sense when looking for a kwoon/dojo to train at. If the owner/teacher is not willing to give out this kind of information then that should raise red flags about this school and person. As for my teacher I can honestly say that I have met his teacher and other people that trained with my teacher that can say yes he earned his 8th degree black sash (because they were there and trained/studied with him).

good luck to ya.

[Golden Tiger]

When I was taking classes at the Sports Center Haing The' was a 7th degree black belt and Sin The' was a 9th degree black belt. He might have already been a 10th degree but I don't think so.

When I studied at the Sports center he was a 8th degree and that was in 1984 or so.

Dude...:rolleyes:

[Baqualin]

Dude...:rolleyes:

Hey GT,
Coming to world Tai Chi day at the school (POT LUCK:D)
BQ

[brucereiter]

hi mark,

check the following links :D

http://www.protroll.com/

http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin/

[Baqualin]

My point is he wasn't a 10th degree black belt, this I know, he was an 8th or 9th degree. All i was asking was this........Was there anyone present at the time he was awarded his 10th degree my GM I? Thats all I was asking. Obviously you have a problem with me asking that question, which if I were looking for a school would raise questions to its legitamacy. I would be like whats he got to hide.

As an insurance salesman I would figure you would have a better knowledge of grammer.

I became a student of GMS in 1974.....he was 10 degree at that time & his brother was 7th...so no you don't know. How old were you then.... 2 or were you even born yet....I do love how you come on here and continue to make an A$$ of yourself

[Eternal Student]

As an insurance salesman I would figure you would have a better knowledge of grammer.

I became a student of GMS in 1974.....he was 10 degree at that time & his brother was 7th...so no you don't know. How old were you then.... 2 or were you even born yet....I do love how you come on here and continue to make an A$$ of yourself

Bite your tongue!!! He swore he would not do that anymore!!! Don't you trust him?:p

[shen ku]

?? i started training, not dirictly under GM sin , but it was 1985 and he was 10th then, so that all i can add to this , i have always heard a story about when he got it but i was not around at that time :)

[Judge Pen]

My point is he wasn't a 10th degree black belt, this I know, he was an 8th or 9th degree. All i was asking was this........Was there anyone present at the time he was awarded his 10th degree my GM I? Thats all I was asking. Obviously you have a problem with me asking that question, which if I were looking for a school would raise questions to its legitamacy. I would be like whats he got to hide.

*tongue firmly planted in cheek*

Sure, all of his senior students were there. You can ask them. There was a big ceremony with fireworks. I'm sure that this totally changes your opinion of the legitimacy of Master The's art and his rank. :eek::rolleyes:

[brucereiter]

So Greatgrandmaster I was there presenting the certificate of 10th degree with all his (Sin The's) senior students there watching or was it that he presented it to himself with his senior students there? I can present a diploma to my self and say it was from who ever. My point is that NO ONE saw him recieve this title from the Great Grandmaster himself. It's all hear say basically. Right?

what is it you are trying to find out?

there are many other issues with shaolin do that might be more interesting to debate.

or are you just trolling?

[shen ku]

ok for that matter you could say the same for sin the , he is the top of a system that he has picked what material will be used for what rank , he is the top of his art shaolin-do?? :rolleyes:

[Eternal Student]

But he's not the founder of the system. Haing The' is so that gives him the right to do whatever he wants.

I am still waiting for you to contribute something constructive to this debate.
Please, do me a favor. Stop playing World of Warcraft, move out of your parent's basement and be a constructive member of society.

[kungfujunky]

sin is older than hsiang and started shaolin do before hsiang was even in the us.

so according to your admittedly flawed logic sin the is the grandmaster of shaolin do as hsiang is the gm of central shaolin (which in point of fact are the same system)

again you are creating an "issue" or "troll topic" without any idea of what the hell you are talking about.

also this very topic was discussed in this very thread a while ago so why not try something new and research that pointless drivel you decide to spew before you spew it.

go drink YOUR NON Shaolin-Do kool aid and shut up mark.

[kwaichang]

MKriii, so now you are trying to fuel a debate about The two brothers mentioned before. I tthink you should be barred from this forum. You contribute nothing and just try to start things. However it often understood that when a Master passes the reins along to someone they are promoted to the highest level of the system ie: 10th or Grand Master or 8th or what ever the style recognises. Long ago Shoto Kan only progressed to 5th BB and there were only white and brown and black belt. KC

[brucereiter]

Now I will except that Haing The' is a Grandmaster because he invented or came up with the the system Central Shaolin. To my knowledge I never heard of Central Shaolin until he came up with it or brought it to the publics attention. Therefore being a systems founder he would be the Grandmaster. Now if the system had been around before him then I would be questioning his rank or belt level as well.

please read the translation of the rank cert again. "Central Plains Shaolin Wushu School " is the name of ie chang mings school he had in bandung.

"central shaolin martial arts" is what hiang calls his school
the name is not something that hiang just came up with

the cert has been hanging in the lexington school for many years.

[shadowlin]

I'm just trying to get legitimate info on GM The's real belt level. I've heard that he promoted himself to 10th degree black belt after he won some tournament and beat a bunch of people. I also heard that he wanted to promote his brother to 8th or 9th degree black belt and he (Haing) said no that he (Sin) wasn't a true 10th degree and didn't have the right (authority) to promote someone to whatever degree belt it was and that incident contributed to the split up of the two brothers. :D


that's not what did it, and frankly I don't think here is the proper place to say what really happened. But it didn't involve Hiang being the more noble brother. Your wires are crossed.


Now I will except that Haing The' is a Grandmaster because he invented or came up with the the system Central Shaolin. To my knowledge I never heard of Central Shaolin until he came up with it or brought it to the publics attention. Therefore being a systems founder he would be the Grandmaster. Now if the system had been around before him then I would be questioning his rank or belt level as well.
I'm sure he's relieved that you accept him. But no, he didn't come up with anything.
I know an ex Hiang student and they are teaching the same stuff.

and yeah, i'm bored, and it's late.

[shadowlin]

So Greatgrandmaster I was there presenting the certificate of 10th degree with all his (Sin The's) senior students there watching or was it that he presented it to himself with his senior students there? I can present a diploma to my self and say it was from who ever. My point is that NO ONE saw him recieve this title from the Great Grandmaster himself. It's all hear say basically. Right?

not its business, mustn't ask.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Personally, I think this whole conversation is so constipated we need a little help. Oh, wait, I've got it:

[kwaichang]

Thats funny. But I am warped anyway. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

LOL....I don't know why anyone wants to crusade on this forum.....

The Do is the Do. Either you Do it, or you Do'nt. Either you like the Do, or you Do'nt.

Either you believe in the Do, or you Do'nt.

But if you Do'nt believe in the Do, Do'nt bother trying to make others Do. They won't.

If you enjoy the Do, Do it. If you Do'nt, then you're either constipated by "officially sanctioned by the Chinese" MA's and lineage traditions, or you Do'nt like the system.

Hell, I thought Longfist was crap, and I was getting it from a real, little, and really little Chinese man. So whenever I hear how great all official CMA's are vs. the Do, it Do'nt bother me much. LOL...even Capoeira had better applicability than many schools I've stepped into. At least everyone there was in monster cardio-condition.;)

[MasterKiller]

Hell, I thought Longfist was crap, and I was getting it from a real, little, and really little Chinese man.

LOL! SD has longfist.

[Eternal Student]

You know what, I'm not trying to debate anyone here. And as for the stupid troll comment, you probably look like a troll. I'd rather make a troll statement then to look like a troll. Now as for my comments.....I'm saying that there is NO person around to substantiate that GM Sin recieved his 10th degree black belt from GM I. Now on the other hand with GM Haing The' he is the FIRST of his system. There was no one before him so that would make him the GM. So take that you troll!!!!:mad:

And we are saying that this topic has already been addressed in this very thread. Stop being a lazy ass and go back and look it up yourself.

[Eternal Student]

Well since I'm in a mood to argue with you Eternal Jack A** I'll tell your lazy ass to bite me!!!! I'm not to lazy to look it up, I'm just trying to get you to come to your senses and wake up and small the coffee. Answer me this one question and I'll stop.....Who was present when Great Grandmaster I Chang Ming gave Sin The' his 10th degree and made him the new Grandmaster? Who I ask? Don't you find it a little strange that Sin goes away a 8th degree and a few months later he comes back a Grandmaster and a 10th degree? He went up 2 belts in a few months? Hmmmm. Sounds a little bogus to me.

Of course you think it sounds bogus because you are a troll, plain and simple. If you are not lazy then you would go back in the thread and look up the answers for yourself, or better yet, since you live in Lexington, go to the school and ask EM Leonard himself. I am sure he would be more than willing to answer your lame question.

[Eternal Student]

Don't get all bent out of shape just because we call you on your b.s. If you cannot man up and find the information on your own and have a coherent debate on this forum that is your problem. No one here has a vested interest in spoon feeding you the information.

[Eternal Student]

I'll spoon feed you but you won't like what it is, and thats my size 11 upside your head. And believe me I can do it. Especially if you do SD. Your all brainwashed and think that your the shiaat. Well I got news for you, your not. Not even close. Your a joke to the MA community. Whenever SD comes up in the conversations of MAtists we laugh and snicker. Why don't you man up? Meet with me and answer my questions. Be a man Eternal Jack A**.

Of course you could, and I am sure you can defy gravity and dodge bullets too. If I recall, you have been asked to cross hands with SD members before, and it never happened. So I think I would be waiting for quite some time.

[Eternal Student]

If your so confident that I won't then why don't you take me up on it then Jack A**? You name a neutral place thats half way between us and I'll show up. How about that!!!

Why don't you try and meet with the people that you previously agreed to first? The list seems to be getting longer. You might even **GASP** find out the answers to your questions. Imagine that!

[Baqualin]

If your so confident that I won't then why don't you take me up on it then Jack A**? You name a neutral place thats half way between us and I'll show up. How about that!!!

Kroger parking lot Boston Rd. 5:45 today....I drive a white 2000 Blazer and I will be alone.
BQ

[brucereiter]

I'll spoon feed you but you won't like what it is, and thats my size 11 upside your head. And believe me I can do it. Especially if you do SD. Your all brainwashed and think that your the shiaat. Well I got news for you, your not. Not even close. Your a joke to the MA community. Whenever SD comes up in the conversations of MAtists we laugh and snicker. Why don't you man up? Meet with me and answer my questions. Be a man Eternal Jack A**.

hi mark,

do you have any videos of some of your martial practice you will share on this forum?
are there any videos on youtube that represent what your system does?
i am curious about your martial arts.

speaking in absolutes often times will cause you to misspeak ...

[Baqualin]

I'll spoon feed you but you won't like what it is, and thats my size 11 upside your head. And believe me I can do it. Especially if you do SD. Your all brainwashed and think that your the shiaat. Well I got news for you, your not. Not even close. Your a joke to the MA community. Whenever SD comes up in the conversations of MAtists we laugh and snicker. Why don't you man up? Meet with me and answer my questions. Be a man Eternal Jack A**.

The only one who has come on here and thought the're the sh!t, is you young man or should I say childbrain since that's the picture that you paint for all on here to see.
BQ

I almost forgot to mention that if your representive of all Ng Family martial arts then I'm d@mn glad I do study SD....GMS never taught us to be A-holes

[Citong Shifu]

hi mark,

do you have any videos of some of your martial practice you will share on this forum?
are there any videos on youtube that represent what your system does?
i am curious about your martial arts.

speaking in absolutes often times will cause you to misspeak ...

Mark, I'd like to see some action videos too. I don't practice SD and am pretty nuetral toward this subject. Just want to compare your training, technique, etc to the SD guys. I think your video action could clarify the point your trying to get across....

CS

[BentMonk]

mkriii - Dude, it's cool that you think your teachers are better than SD. What's not cool is the fact that you're acting like a third grader in a playground name calling contest. I'm sure that no one who teaches MA would want their students to behave the way you have on this thread. You have backed out of every invitation to meet with someone from SD. This and your demeanor speak volumes about your character, or lack there of. There are many in the MA community that take issue with SD's lineage. They also take issue with many other styles lineage. Most people could care less because lineage has no bearing on the effectiveness of technique. To those who say SD's techniques are not effective I say that that varies by practitioner. I have competed successfully in many tournaments outside of SD. I have even taken it to the ring full contact, and won. So IMO SD's techniques work just fine. Of course, that might have something to do with how I train them, I don't know. When I was competing in these tournaments I was not ridiculed in any way for studying SD. In fact I've crossed hands with folks from TKD, Shoto Kan, Isshin Ryu, Shorin Ryu, Boxing, BJJ, and MMA. None of these folks laughed at me. I doubt that they were just being nice. One of them even remarked, "You guys may have a weird lineage, but your hands are legit." I'm sorry that you have nothing better to do with your time than come on here and make an ass of yourself. Still, it's your time, waste it how you will. Best of luck to you and your trolling. BTW, may I offer you a refreshing glass of ice cold Kool Aid? :D

[Lamassu]

I'll spoon feed you but you won't like what it is, and thats my size 11 upside your head. And believe me I can do it. Especially if you do SD. Your all brainwashed and think that your the shiaat. Well I got news for you, your not. Not even close. Your a joke to the MA community. Whenever SD comes up in the conversations of MAtists we laugh and snicker. Why don't you man up? Meet with me and answer my questions. Be a man Eternal Jack A**.

The chicken sh!t coward is back talking smack! Hi loser, how are you? Doing well I see, soooooooooo, ever hook up with Bagualin? No? Of course not you're a scared little boy hiding in the comfort of your mommy's panties. LOL, this sh!t is too hilarious, everytime you come on here swingin' your proverbial baby d!ck, someone else has to whip theirs out and put you in your place (as usual). You amuse me Mark, you're like a clown to me. Make me laugh Mark, just say something, anything I find your bitterness quite entertaining.

[kwaichang]

Ill be up this week end MK I will cross with you "neutral as they say" BTW I think this number4 or is it 5 times I have offered to meet you.
I will be in town at 11:30 AM. KC:rolleyes::mad::):eek::D

[kungfujunky]

mark hsiang the is not the first of central shaolin. that was ie chang ming who created that...then sin renamed it. so in point of fact hsiang is the impostor.

hsiang was GIVEN his rank by his students.

[MasterKiller]

Ill be up this week end MK I will cross with you "neutral as they say" BTW I think this number4 or is it 5 times I have offered to meet you.
I will be in town at 11:30 AM. KC:rolleyes::mad::):eek::D

There is only one MK, and JP is his prophet.

[Baqualin]

hi mark,

do you have any videos of some of your martial practice you will share on this forum?
are there any videos on youtube that represent what your system does?
i am curious about your martial arts.

speaking in absolutes often times will cause you to misspeak ...


Here's a link to MKrii's teacher on utube..../www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1t53fPDMw&feature=related
BQ

[brucereiter]

Here's a link to MKrii's teacher on utube..../www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1t53fPDMw&feature=related
BQ

i saw that one ... did he win the competition?
i was hoping to see some of their tai chi chuan, pakua and hsing i ... i heard that is what john dufrense (sp) main things ...

what is the lineage of their tai chi chuan, pakua, and hsing i?

[Old Noob]

I was wondering whether any of the contributors to this thread have read The Shaolin Grandmasters' Text originally published in 2004 by "The Order of Shaolin Ch'an?" If so, what is your opinion of the book and the legitimacy of the claims therein? Finally, if you view the book's contents as legitimate, is it informative to the basic question of this thread?

vr
ON

[kwaichang]

OK MK I dont think you are the only one but I meant MKriii Your ego seems great my padowan KC

[cjurakpt]

Here's a link to MKrii's teacher on utube..../www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1t53fPDMw&feature=related
BQ

what the he1l was that?

[Citong Shifu]

Here's a link to MKrii's teacher on utube..../www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1t53fPDMw&feature=related
BQ

I cant seem to pull the video up. Will you paste the direct link to the youtube video.

Thanks.
CS

[kungfujunky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1t53fPDMw&feature=related

[Citong Shifu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1t53fPDMw&feature=related

Thanks!

Was that a stomping form? Hmmmm :confused:.

CS

[kwaichang]

And they call SD forms crap. Not impressed at all. KC:confused:

[Ngfamilymember]

Wow, I usually don't partake in any of these discussions...BUT I don't think my sigungs video was intended to really impress you! You have what you have and I'm sure that "impresses" you, as other styles have what they have and that "impresses" them! Every style has its pro's and con's and it really isn't fair for any of us to delegate what style is crap and what style isn't...not without digging deep and trying to understand the underlining principles and concepts that makes the style what it is.

Personally, it is kind of sad to see this debate still going on. Same arguement years ago and looks like much hasn't changed. You will always have people trying to force their opinions (whether it be productive or destructive) onto others for what they think is "better" but it is just that we all as martial artist (in my opinion) should be open and free to explore other styles/systems/methods so that we may grow and prosper. The day we bind ourselves down and get stuck in a box is the day that we cease to move forward.

Hope this conversation turns around and starts going in the right direction again for everyone. Take care and continue to train hard.
-Ngfamilymember (aka Jeff)

[kungfujunky]

hey jeff maybe you can rein in your student or fellow trainer mark. he is a blight on your system and his mouth is digging a deep hole.

also no clue what those forms were that he was performing. hard to find serious martial(practical fighting application) use in those movements.

but maybe i just didnt see it right

[Ngfamilymember]

Kungfujunky,
Sorry, but Mark is his own man. He's a big boy so he can choose to do as he wishes, I'm not the person to set anything straight. We are all accountable for our actions, no one else. Don't know him that well either, just met him a couple of times at tournaments. Seems like you guys might know him better than I.

As for the form comment, well you should know as everyone else that sometimes it is hard to see applications within the frame work of form movements. Sometimes it takes an instructor to unlock techniques that are overlooked or seem to be something entirely different. Even a styles simplest techniques are hidden when viewed by outsiders. I'm sure this is true with your style also. Sorry that I couldn't have been of more help.

I'm out, Take care and train hard.
-Ngfamilymember (aka Jeff)

[BentMonk]

I'll give a nod of respect to anyone with the stones to post themselves online. The practitioner in the clip had leg strength, flexibility, and an enthusiastic spirit. From a martial perspective I saw very little power generation from the hips, and a lack of solid over all body structure. JMO

[Baqualin]

Kungfujunky,
Sorry, but Mark is his own man. He's a big boy so he can choose to do as he wishes, I'm not the person to set anything straight. We are all accountable for our actions, no one else. Don't know him that well either, just met him a couple of times at tournaments. Seems like you guys might know him better than I.

As for the form comment, well you should know as everyone else that sometimes it is hard to see applications within the frame work of form movements. Sometimes it takes an instructor to unlock techniques that are overlooked or seem to be something entirely different. Even a styles simplest techniques are hidden when viewed by outsiders. I'm sure this is true with your style also. Sorry that I couldn't have been of more help.

I'm out, Take care and train hard.
-Ngfamilymember (aka Jeff)

Hey Jeff,
I posted the link to Dr. Ng to show some on here Mark's background and that he does come from a legit teacher....not for critique....it is in no way intended to cut down the Ng Family arts....I'm very familiar with your system......it's just that Mark is a very poor representive of the system. I would like to thank you for coming on here and showing the true spirit of the Ng family.....we're all brothers....... we have bad seeds too.
BQ

[Lamassu]

Sorry, but Mark is his own man. He's a big boy so he can choose to do as he wishes, I'm not the person to set anything straight. We are all accountable for our actions, no one else. Don't know him that well either, just met him a couple of times at tournaments. Seems like you guys might know him better than I.
-Ngfamilymember (aka Jeff)

Oh we know Mark. He's this guy that likes to play this little game of antagonizing anyone on this forum that's SD, for his own amusement. Now, I'm sorry if you feel the Ng family martial arts were dragged through the mud, that was uncalled for and unneccesary. Like you said, Mark is his own man and (I assume) he can take care of himself, but he shouldn't dish anything out if he can't take it in. He comes on this forum acting very aggressive to any SD student to make himself feel better, but when he gets a spoonful of his own medicine he runs like the coward he is. I have no problem with the Ng family martial arts, I just think Mark is a whiny, scared; insecure little boy of a man and everytime he posts on this forum I picture a baby crying for attention, so I give the baby the same kind of attention he gives us. Mark will always be a piece of sh!t to me and I'm that's what he'll always be until the day his body resembles his personality... dog sh!t.

[Ngfamilymember]

Personally,
I appreciate everyones tone of respect and humbleness within this matter. BQ: I understand and you are correct, we are all brothers/sisters...most of us trying to reach a deeper understanding of our arts. Lam: Hopefully Mark and you will work something out and develop a different type of relationship in the future.

I hope this discussion topic turns 180 degrees and starts to become more productive. I've viewed this topic for a while now and a lot of people who post on here have geniune knowledge and offer valuable insight within their style(s). Hopefully people will come to the agreement that not every style is exactly perfect and that other (different) styles have something offer even to the most seasoned practioner.

Thanks guys. Again, take care and train hard.
Respectfully,
-Ngfamilymember (aka Jeff)

[Judge Pen]

Personally,
I appreciate everyones tone of respect and humbleness within this matter. BQ: I understand and you are correct, we are all brothers/sisters...most of us trying to reach a deeper understanding of our arts. Lam: Hopefully Mark and you will work something out and develop a different type of relationship in the future.

I hope this discussion topic turns 180 degrees and starts to become more productive. I've viewed this topic for a while now and a lot of people who post on here have geniune knowledge and offer valuable insight within their style(s). Hopefully people will come to the agreement that not every style is exactly perfect and that other (different) styles have something offer even to the most seasoned practioner.

Thanks guys. Again, take care and train hard.
Respectfully,
-Ngfamilymember (aka Jeff)

I wish more posts were of this tone and respect. If so, I think we could learn more from one another and do less tearing down. MRKiii could learn a lesson or two....

[mkriii]

hey jeff maybe you can rein in your student or fellow trainer mark. he is a blight on your system and his mouth is digging a deep hole.

also no clue what those forms were that he was performing. hard to find serious martial(practical fighting application) use in those movements.

but maybe i just didnt see it right

When you say you don't know what forms "he" was doing you make it sound like it is me doing the form. That IS NOT me doing the form. Just to clarify that for everyone. Also I couldn't see the clip due to a block on my competer but I can assure you that the forms we do are good forms. I don't know who or what form this person is doing but I'll check it out when I get home.