Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[kungfujunky]

lol if you knew gms you wouldnt say that

[bodhi warrior]

just look at some of the statements he makes and his actions. Youngest GM in shaolin history, largest fitness complex, 900 forms, wanting to be a movie star, and he's obviously had some cosmetic work done when looking at his 80's photos, and the dyed hair.

[kungfujunky]

you are so off base its funny

thanks for the chuckle!

[Pa Kua]

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why we can't train at both Shaolin Do schools and CSCs? I've heard that if someone trains out east then they couldn't attend a seminar for example in CA.

[tattooedmonk]

on the right side it says five levels of black belt .....could it mean that he mastered all five levels of black belt and that is the reason why he is the 10th degree black belt?? If he graduated then he would be more than a 5th black , correct??

[tattooedmonk]

LOL, I'm trying to train to become an assistant instructor in the future, and I drink whiskey, so I guess I'm screwed. And sometimes I catch myself swearing in-kwoon, but I try not to (bad habits of a rebellious youth). Sometimes the F-bomb gets dropped without realizing it....but more likely, the S-bomb. I have a great vocabulary, but I intersperse swear words every now and then. LOL......and I've seen full-fledged instructors drinking beer at CSC holiday socials, so I guess they're screwed, too. Hell, there's even pictures of them on the internet. The reason I find this funny, is that in Chinese society drinking plays an important part in social relations. I guess they missed that part in their observation of the aescetic culture.

As for the meat-eating, I made my point clear on another thread. I'm steeped in blood, and happy to bathe in it. Or, in a more Shakesperean way: "steeped in the gore of my trade"

BTW, I wonder how they perform drunken styles. Zimaquan?



This is a symptom of every CMA school in the nation. Far less at CSC's, at least in Atlanta. Look at how many national CMA non-chinese teachers have CHinese wives, as if to lend credibility to their image. I'm not saying that's so, but many of these guys are die-hard occidentalists. They do everything chinese; it's one of those psychological things, where we're fascinated with what is different from the culture in which we are raised. How far you take it is always up to you. It's not that way at all CSC's, and it will always be an individual. Me? I'll never date another asian after my fiasco with a Cambodian chick as an undergrad. Wow, she was hot. But she was crazy, LOL. Everyone thought I was crazy for dumping her, 'cuz there's something about smoking hot asians that just turn off most male minds.:D I do like Chinese Lit, though. I think Journey to the West is easily as good as the Iliad, Aeneid, and Odyssey, and ought to be studied as such. But then, I'll only ever read the English translations, and would only teach them beside Chapman's translations of Homer, and Dryden's Aeneid. Despite my comprehension of Latin (in the case of the latter). Dryden was just better at his game, hand's down.Yeah all this stuff about being vegan is new . Up until a few years ago they ate fast food all the time. And yes you are looked at like a subclass student if you eat meat and do not follow what they tell you to do in every aspect of your life. It used to be you could have a beer or glass of wine at a wedding or on special occasion. I remember one time they were here in LA and one of the students brought a 12 pack .We all part took of them, but as soon as SS heard them being opened she was set off . Now seeing as they only come to town once a year is this not considered a special occasion??

You should have heard what said once they found out I partook of the herb!!!:D

[OTD]

Looking at all the various photobucket pictures of the certificate what is the silver and red metal thingy at the lower left hand of the picture (opposite corner of the photograph) suppose to represent???

[kungfujunky]

THATS representative of the grandmasters belt

[Judge Pen]

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why we can't train at both Shaolin Do schools and CSCs? I've heard that if someone trains out east then they couldn't attend a seminar for example in CA.

Its up the the Elder Masters that oversee their sphere of influence. If a CSC student was traveling in our area and wanted to train, then I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.

[kwaichang]

Are you really sure JP ? Really sure ??? KC

[Judge Pen]

Are you really sure JP ? Really sure ??? KC

At least it used to be that way. There's a lot of politics that get in the way sometimes. Maybe someday it will get better.

[Shaolin Wookie]

You guys are basing your entire argument on pics that could be Li Bao Shu or SKTJ all the pics could be the same guy but represented as the other. Even if the 2 or 3 pics are the same person it only proves the pics are the same person and does not prove that SKDJ did not exist . Ie Chang Ming could have easily used a pic of Li Bao Shu because he did not have one of SKTJ because of the similarities of the two. I wonder if JP would believe your premise would hold up in Court , I doubt it. KC:)

It's called research. The principle isn't necessarily to strengthen your own position for your own personal edification, but to find out the facts so that you can understand what was done for what reason. Say the pictures were of Li Baoshu....it would simply mean that someone procured a pic of Li Po Sui because he had the same condition as SKTJ.

This is just a researcher talking here, so it might not mean much.

For instance: I came across the "wild hairy mountain men" references in the poet Yuan Mei's poetry (late 1700's). He described these hermetic, hairy men, found variously throughout China's mountains (I think the notes said Hebei Sheng, in particular). It was, for him, a way to disparage and dehumanize those people who shunned society and sought a reclusive asceticism. In his eyes, it became a negative thing.

So, if these ideas were extant in the 1700's, it seems to period the existence of local myths about exceptionally hairy men in the mountains, who shunned human society.

That's the prototype for SKTJ. Then, if you know a little something about C. Jung and archetypes.....it's an interesting thing.

I'll try to find the poem again, and print it here, just for kicks.

PS--none of this has anything to do with training. The training is the training, the stories is the stories. But when someone tells me something about a subject I'm not well-versed in, I feel the responsibility to look it up. Ever write a 20 page grad school research paper w/ a minimum of 20 sources? If you don't check your references, you die in the water. So if it's Li Po Sui, it's Li Po Sui. No big deal.

Don't deny, deny, deny.
Embrace.

BTW, there's a Chinese guy with hypertrichosis who's trying to get permission to run with the olympic torch in Beijing.

[Shaolin Wookie]

You should have heard what said once they found out I partook of the herb!!!:D

I'm guessing that you aren't talking about the iron palm.......perhaps the iron lung?:D

[Shaolin Wookie]

If you drink your chances go up. Firewater & you're almost a shoe in. I don't know about Midtown though... it could be a bit PC compared to Marietta.

I used to bartend along with several other isntructors at the Xmas party. Nobody left vertical if they came to the bar. Then again... that was Marietta. Ask about the house boat parties or UGA parties.

Nah, I'm not a social drinker. I don't like any parties, to be honest.

So what's the deal? Why do people just have a romanticized notion of Chinese culture (not just an SD issue)? Like it's always serious, sober, vegan, polite, and self-effacing?

Interesting things to note:

Shaolin granted permission by Li Shimin to eat dog, if I'm not mistaken.
Chinese society drinks as a way to socialize, and I'm not talking Bud Light.
Vegans are wimps. :eek::D:p

I wonder.....were they equally horrified by sex? LOL........Shaolin were virgified for life.....ouch.

Take the curious instance of Lu Da. He ate meat and drank (and relieved himself behind the temple). It wasn't exactly smiled upon, but it didn't get him kicked out (at least, not immediately).:D:cool:

At least most of us have the politeness to make use of the "officially sanctioned" restroom.

[Golden Tiger]

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why we can't train at both Shaolin Do schools and CSCs? I've heard that if someone trains out east then they couldn't attend a seminar for example in CA.


There have been several students from the west, including Denver, come out and train at the Lex gym. They were always welcome and treated as a brother/sister student of SD.

As for the seminars, all I am aware of is that after the "great divide" between the east, west and south, some of the head honcho's of the two later areas made an issue out of not wanting their students coming to Lexington and getting the material before said head honchos got it.:rolleyes:

just look at some of the statements he makes and his actions. Youngest GM in shaolin history, largest fitness complex, 900 forms, wanting to be a movie star, and he's obviously had some cosmetic work done when looking at his 80's photos, and the dyed hair.

Well, he was the youngest GM at the time, he did build the largest sports complex in the area and while 900 is a big number, so far he's on number 200 plus and still getting new stuff out. As for wanting to be a movie star, well, movie stars gets the hottest babes, can't fault him for that. As for the cosmetic work, he did have surgery on his shoulder but I am not sure if that was with botox or without.:eek: It might have been because he spent 10 hours a day, every day, training in the gym at a pace that none of his students could keep up with. we were even encouraged to join and work out with him....I couldn't keep up, even the best student at the time couldn't keep up. I will agree with the dyed hair...a sure sign of an overactive ego at work.:rolleyes:

[kwaichang]

So if some one co;ors or high lites their hair they have an ego problem ??? so if you comb your hair or shave you have an ego problem too and if you wear deodorant you have an ego problem. People shouldnt try to force their morays on others. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

and if you wear deodorant you have an ego problem. People shouldnt try to force their morays on others. KC

No, you wear deodorant so you don't have a BO problem.

And what do eels have anything to do with this issue?

Ohhhhh, you meant mores......;):D

Anyone who has stood in front of him and seen the tattered state of his red belt would throw that ego charge right out the window....LOL.

You gotta respect that. I hope my belt gets that frayed from use some day. Screw the "white belt turning black" thing. I want mine to be ripped up from wear and tear, too.

As for the movie thing. He's got a story to tell, and he likes telling it. He takes classes in scriptwriting....it's a passion for him. Who are we to crap on that? I'm a writer, too.

[brucereiter]

Here’s a good quality photograph of the document provided by Shaolindoiscool: http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/1sintherankcert-05.jpg

2. The person’s name on the document doesn’t appear to be Sin’s. A possible explanation is that ‘Sin The’ is his Indonesian name which is not unexpected, but its surprising that no one has taken issue with the apparent inconsistency.


"Zheng Shenguang" means the same thing as "sin kwang the" i do not know what system gmt used to spell his name as we know it but the chinese characters on his signature translate to the above as far as i have been able to tell from having a chinese friend look at it and read it to me.


3. The dates of study listed do not conform with the information given on the main SD sites:

The certificate is dated 1964, states Sin is twenty years old and that he has studied for 10 years.

“When he was 7 years old he began studying under one of Grandmaster Ie's top students. After proving himself worthy, he then studied under Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming as a private student until Ie Chang Ming retired and passed the title of Grandmaster to Sin Kwang Thé (at the age of 25).” Source: http://www.sinthe.com/grandmaster.html

“At the age of six, after an exhaustive six-month selection process which tested patience, endurance, dedication and temperament, Grandmaster E accepted me as a student.”
Source: http://www.grandmasterthe.com/biography.html (page 7 and 8)


look closer and also refer to the "time line" i posted last week.




4. There is nothing on the certificate to indicate any private instruction; on the contrary the wording seems to suggest a normal progression through “schools” and being awarded the appropriate rank after passing the required exams.

this is what it appears to be but it does not say specifically how gmt training was structured. it would be interesting to hear accounts of this part of gmt's life and training.

<<, and has joined in many open
martial arts competitions held by the school, and made a clean sweep champion. He has been
awarded the highest Wushu athletics medal of the school. >>
this quote from the cert is interesting ... it implies that there may have been competitions with other schools i wonder if any of the "other" schools can share accounts of this. what were these competitions?




5. If you compare the Chinese characters listed on the belt ranking chart at http://www.sinthe.com/images/2004/rankingsystem.jpg for a “5th Black” with those characters listed on Sin’s certificate you’ll find they match exactly. Sin was a 5th Dan Black Belt, nothing more.

this is true it appears. from what i understand ie chang ming made gmt the grandmaster of his system in 1968 about 4 years after he came to the usa.




6. The material listed on the certificate that Sin The supposedly minored in is not listed as being taught in any of the SD schools.
i dont know why this is or if he has taught variations of this ...




7. Nowhere on the document is the translated name of the school or the system referred to as ‘Shaolin-do’ or ‘Shaolin-tao.’ Instead its translated either as “Zhong Yuan” or “Central Plains” Shaolin. If this was the name of the school/system that Sin The studied, why isn’t that name used today?

please refer to my previous posts regarding the copyright/trademark of the system. it states the first use of the phrase "shaolin do" was used in 1978. i think this will explain why there is no reference to "shaolin do" on the cert.



8. Sin’s teacher, Ie Chang Ming, has signed the document and he lists himself as the “Founder” of the “Central Plains Shaolin Wushu school.” There is nothing in his seal or ‘signature block’ that suggests he is trying to pass himself off as a Shaolin Grandmaster. Seems like if you were the Grandmaster of the entire Shaolin system, or even a single temple, you’d want to list that on your martial arts school’s certificates. Also, there’s no indication that Ie even called himself a grandmaster. So what did he, or could he, pass on to Sin The? The leadership of the Indonesian school and the Central Plains Shaolin school? If he did pass this on, why wasn’t it enough for Sin? Why is there not a single Shaolin-do school in Indonesia today and over 100 in the U.S.?
i think understanding the context the word "shaolin" is used is important to understanding that. "founder" and "president" i think could imply "grandmaster" my grasp of chinese is limited though ...

[brucereiter]

THATS representative of the grandmasters belt

is this what you think it is or know it is ... there is a difference, i think when we type about this subject if we are typing something we can "prove" type what ever but if it is our "opinion" we should state that so as to not add more confusion to the debate.

[brucereiter]

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why we can't train at both Shaolin Do schools and CSCs? I've heard that if someone trains out east then they couldn't attend a seminar for example in CA.

any student who studies under gmt is more than welcome to come to any of the atlanta schools to train. if you are visiting just come on by and sign a waiver and you can join classes. we have had a few students from other schools east and west come by for a week of 2. i have been welcomed into several schools east and west and treated with respect by every shaolin do student and teacher i have met.

regarding seminars i do not know about that. i think some teachers may want new material to be introduced to the student by someone under them to maintain the same version being taught to the students as each of the schools have a different "flavor".

[Shaolin Wookie]

LOL....we should just divide the material up between the different schools, according to temple origin of styles, and see what happens to how the material develops. That would be interesting.

Shotgun Henan.....

[kungfujunky]

is this what you think it is or know it is ... there is a difference, i think when we type about this subject if we are typing something we can "prove" type what ever but if it is our "opinion" we should state that so as to not add more confusion to the debate.


looking at this bottom right corner

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/1sintherankcert-05.jpg

its a red and black belt representative of the grandmasters belt

just like here:

http://www.sinthe.com/images/gmbelt2.jpg

it is a logical conclusion but yes it is my opinion

[kungfujunky]

regarding seminars i do not know about that. i think some teachers may want new material to be introduced to the student by someone under them to maintain the same version being taught to the students as each of the schools have a different "flavor".

im not to sure that there is that much difference as some might think.

recently a brown belt from the texas group joined my school in colorado and he was basically doing the same exact things we were for all of his material.

there were very few and very minor differences that could easily be attributed to the teachers own physiological limitations or lack thereof

[BlueTravesty]

looking at this bottom right corner

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/brucereiter/1sintherankcert-05.jpg

its a red and black belt representative of the grandmasters belt

just like here:

http://www.sinthe.com/images/gmbelt2.jpg

it is a logical conclusion but yes it is my opinion

The second one is red and black. The first one on the old-timey-looking document, was just red. No black.

[chiballsoffire]

"Zheng Shenguang" means the same thing as "sin kwang the" i do not know what system gmt used to spell his name as we know it but the chinese characters on his signature translate to the above as far as i have been able to tell from having a chinese friend look at it and read it to me.

Since apparently neither you nor I are Chinese linguists, I think you should avoid making statements about what means what. The bottom line is, like most things having to do with this system, you simply don’t know for sure. You’re trying to craft a response that will allow you to retain your faith in this man.

look closer and also refer to the "time line" i posted last week.

To be perfectly frank, your timeline is of no interest to me with regards to the information provided on the certificate. You do not appear to be a senior-ranking person in SD who might know, and I doubt you’ve ever had a substantive conversation with Sin The about his training history. The document states what it states….he started his studies at the age of 10, finished at 20. That doesn’t match with what SD now says, period. So, either the person who wrote this certificate (ostensibly Ie since his name appears on it) is telling the truth or Sin is telling the truth. Either way it doesn’t add up. Please look closer…..


this is true it appears. from what i understand ie chang ming made gmt the grandmaster of his system in 1968 about 4 years after he came to the usa.

In your post # 6896 (also containing the timeline) you wrote that all the evidence you could find showed that Ie named Sin the grandmaster, now you state that from what you understand Ie made Sin The grandmaster in 1968. So do you have any evidence (no hearsay please)? Lineages can be confusing, but this is something that supposedly happened 39 years ago….not 100, not 200….there ought to be something you or someone in SD could present.

please refer to my previous posts regarding the copyright/trademark of the system. it states the first use of the phrase "shaolin do" was used in 1978. i think this will explain why there is no reference to "shaolin do" on the cert.

I’m sorry, but this doesn’t explain anything. As has been pointed out on this forum and others that you post to, Sin tried to copyright/trademark Shaolin about 15 years ago, sue a former student, etc., and failed utterly to do so. But that is an entirely different subject. The question was, if he inherited Ie’s entire system, why did he not use the school’s name? The answer has nothing to do with trademarks or copyrights. Here’s the answer: He was never named to be Ie’s successor, he never inherited Ie’s school and he was never promoted by Ie or anyone else to grandmaster. Sin named his school Shaolin-do and made himself the grandmaster of that school. If Sin actually had a document signed by Ie making him the grandmaster, (and a few signed depositions/statements from senior students/instructors of the Indonesian school confirming that fact) it would be a fairly easy process to copyright the name, program, material, etc. But he doesn’t does he? So, 39 years later his convoluted set of half-truths, deceptions and lies have come full circle. The truth is always a much easier and much more consistent story to maintain.

i think understanding the context the word "shaolin" is used is important to understanding that. "founder" and "president" i think could imply "grandmaster" my grasp of chinese is limited though ..

What are you talking about here? Context? Oh, yeah that whole meaningless debate on this thread about current Western interpretations of what the word Shaolin implies or doesn’t imply. And again with the Chinese translator routine…. That debate is not germane to the issue of this certificate. If Ie was the grandmaster of the entire Shaolin system or even one of the affiliated temples, why isn’t that indicated on the document? Two separate translators at two separate times (probably unaffiliated with SD) used the word “founder.” So, did Ie “found” the entire Shaolin system? Or was he the “founder” of a Shaolin Temple? (This is at the heart of what Sin The claims to have inherited.) What did he “found?” The easy answer is that he is the founder of the “Central Plains” Shaolin Wushu school in Bandung, Indonesia.

Remember…..cyanide smells like toasted almonds……so give that next dose of Kool-Aid a little sniff.

[Yao Sing]

You guys are basing your entire argument on pics that could be Li Bao Shu or SKTJ all the pics could be the same guy but represented as the other. Even if the 2 or 3 pics are the same person it only proves the pics are the same person and does not prove that SKDJ did not exist .

I think it's a good indication the someone along the line lied. The picture is claimed to be Su Kong and NOT a representation of of his disease. If it isn't him but it's being passed off as him then either Sin The is lying or he was lied to about the picture.

on the right side it says five levels of black belt .....could it mean that he mastered all five levels of black belt and that is the reason why he is the 10th degree black belt?? If he graduated then he would be more than a 5th black , correct??

It's my understanding that 10the degree = head of system so anyone at the top of the system would automatically jump to 10th even if they were just 5th. No issue here.

chiballsoffire has a pretty good analysis but there seems to be a lack of concrete evidence for either position although you can't prove a negative. There's always the chance that Sin The was sold a bill of goods. The thing that seems odd to me is that so much digging and analyzing documents and photos has to occur to get any answers.

Bottom line it sounds like you either take Sin's word for it or you don't. Most of us don't because we see nothing indicating we should. It may be all circumstantial but it all points to a story much less grand than has been portrayed.

I think it's more likely that it's been embellished quite a bit, fairly typical of Chinese arts, more so from Indonesians from what I've heard.

[kwaichang]

You guys all remind me of a dog my brother owned named Sniper. He would chase cars and would never catch them. One day a car slowed down so he could catch it and the stupid dog just sat there and looked at the car. That is like you guys even if you could prove all your accusations it still means nothing. GM Sin The continues to teach out more than any of you guys ever hoped to learn in a life time with your current teachers. I for one have trained since 1981 in SD and started back in 1992 till now. SD IS all I ever hoped to find. If you guys are so heii bent on disproving the SD lineage then contact the man himself and "push" the issue. I dont think any of you will because as they say in the old west you guys are cowards. KC

[OTD]

Why do people who supposedly study other systems (ie HunGar,CKF,NLongfist
& Mantis) only want to post on a thread named " Is Shao lin Do For Real??

Don't they have any respect from their own style or styles to inter-act with?

70-80% of the posts are from other people, who blatenly speak out that
they don't want to learn anything from SD yet in fact by posting on this
thread they are the biggest proponent of SD???

Just curious

OTD

[chiballsoffire]

You guys all remind me of a dog my brother owned named Sniper. He would chase cars and would never catch them. One day a car slowed down so he could catch it and the stupid dog just sat there and looked at the car. That is like you guys even if you could prove all your accusations it still means nothing. GM Sin The continues to teach out more than any of you guys ever hoped to learn in a life time with your current teachers. I for one have trained since 1981 in SD and started back in 1992 till now. SD IS all I ever hoped to find. If you guys are so heii bent on disproving the SD lineage then contact the man himself and "push" the issue. I dont think any of you will because as they say in the old west you guys are cowards. KC

What don't you go play in traffic with your dog old man. Typical hostile response from someone who can't come to grips with the fact that they've wrapped their pathetic lives around someone who is essentially a conman.

[DPL]

Since apparently neither you nor I are Chinese linguists, I think you should avoid making statements about what means what. The bottom line is, like most things having to do with this system, you simply don’t know for sure. You’re trying to craft a response that will allow you to retain your faith in this man.

Bruce gave you a valid response. He had someone who speaks Chinese look at it for him. If you don't read Aramaic, or even Greek, can you trust everything you read in the Bible? Are you sure the Brothers Karamazov was correctly translated? Maybe it's really about some circus performers in Moscow who have wild and crazy adventures with their dog. Don't bullsh!t around - there's enough of that on this thread already.



To be perfectly frank, your timeline is of no interest to me with regards to the information provided on the certificate. You do not appear to be a senior-ranking person in SD who might know, and I doubt you’ve ever had a substantive conversation with Sin The about his training history. The document states what it states….he started his studies at the age of 10, finished at 20. That doesn’t match with what SD now says, period. So, either the person who wrote this certificate (ostensibly Ie since his name appears on it) is telling the truth or Sin is telling the truth. Either way it doesn’t add up. Please look closer…..

So once again Bruce answers your question and you say 'I'M NOT GONNA LOOK AT YOUR ANSWER 'CAUSE YOU DON'T RANK HIGH ENOUGH'. Which, if folks had applied that logic to Einstein, would've slowed down the pace of development in physics quite a bit, don't you think?


In your post # 6896 (also containing the timeline) you wrote that all the evidence you could find showed that Ie named Sin the grandmaster, now you state that from what you understand Ie made Sin The grandmaster in 1968. So do you have any evidence (no hearsay please)? Lineages can be confusing, but this is something that supposedly happened 39 years ago….not 100, not 200….there ought to be something you or someone in SD could present.

Believe it or not, 'All the evidence I can find' and 'It's my understanding' actually mean pretty much exactly the same thing.




I’m sorry, but this doesn’t explain anything. As has been pointed out on this forum and others that you post to, Sin tried to copyright/trademark Shaolin about 15 years ago, sue a former student, etc., and failed utterly to do so. But that is an entirely different subject. The question was, if he inherited Ie’s entire system, why did he not use the school’s name? The answer has nothing to do with trademarks or copyrights. Here’s the answer: He was never named to be Ie’s successor, he never inherited Ie’s school and he was never promoted by Ie or anyone else to grandmaster. Sin named his school Shaolin-do and made himself the grandmaster of that school. If Sin actually had a document signed by Ie making him the grandmaster, (and a few signed depositions/statements from senior students/instructors of the Indonesian school confirming that fact) it would be a fairly easy process to copyright the name, program, material, etc. But he doesn’t does he? So, 39 years later his convoluted set of half-truths, deceptions and lies have come full circle. The truth is always a much easier and much more consistent story to maintain.

Why would he be provided Ie's notes and treated as an honored colleague by Ie's contemporaries? Who's to say he DOESN'T have something signed by Ie that names him grandmaster? Do you know he doesn't have that document? Have you been rummaging through his stuff? Was that you trying on his daughter's underwear and getting chased by the cops across town?

Do you honestly think he cares what you, bold and daring Internet warrior though you are, think about him?



What are you talking about here? Context? Oh, yeah that whole meaningless debate on this thread about current Western interpretations of what the word Shaolin implies or doesn’t imply. And again with the Chinese translator routine…. That debate is not germane to the issue of this certificate. If Ie was the grandmaster of the entire Shaolin system or even one of the affiliated temples, why isn’t that indicated on the document? Two separate translators at two separate times (probably unaffiliated with SD) used the word “founder.” So, did Ie “found” the entire Shaolin system? Or was he the “founder” of a Shaolin Temple? (This is at the heart of what Sin The claims to have inherited.) What did he “found?” The easy answer is that he is the founder of the “Central Plains” Shaolin Wushu school in Bandung, Indonesia.


This is almost too bizarre a response to even address. 'Founder' and 'grandmaster' are also non-exclusive terms, as are 'president', 'CEO', 'ditch-digger' and 'dude'. You can actually be all of these at the same time! Isn't that cool!

Much like you can be a doofus and an Internet warrior at the same time. But you should know that already.


Remember…..cyanide smells like toasted almonds……so give that next dose of Kool-Aid a little sniff.

Iron stomach training. Lots of peppers and hot sauce. Don't need to worry about it.

It would help you sound more intelligent if you actually parsed through the logic behind your arguments before posting them.

Cheers!

[kwaichang]

Chiballsoffire wasnt it you who were going to a seminar at Rusty Grays in Nashville ? That really takes away from your credibility if you have any. Dont talk to me about Conmen if you go there for lessons. You want the truth then you ask him we apparantly dont have the answers you seek. KC:cool: BTW if you are in Nashville I will be glad to work out with you if you promise to be gentle haha

[Judge Pen]

This is almost too bizarre a response to even address. 'Founder' and 'grandmaster' are also non-exclusive terms, as are 'president', 'CEO', 'ditch-digger' and 'dude'. You can actually be all of these at the same time! Isn't that cool!


:D LOL. Thanks for the morning chuckle.

I don't get chiballs of fire. He must be an alias for someone else because why would a "newbie" create an account indicating that they've trained hung gar for 8 years and not talk about anything but what a fraud SD is? It's not like there isn't anyone else in the martial world championing that cause. I think I would give more consideration to his posts and attempt to carry on an intelligent conversation with him if 1) his first posts were personal and attacking and 2) if he actually wanted to talk about a number of other things and his distaste for SD. Look at Yao Sing, MK, greedcloud, heck even the artist formerly known as Fu Pow. They all contribute to many discussions including this one. Many of them share chiballs' opinions, but its not their only point they want to make. That, at least in my mind, gives more credibility to their statements even if I disagree.

[Judge Pen]

Chiballsoffire wasnt it you who were going to a seminar at Rusty Grays in Nashville ? That really takes away from your credibility if you have any. Dont talk to me about Conmen if you go there for lessons. You want the truth then you ask him we apparantly dont have the answers you seek. KC:cool: BTW if you are in Nashville I will be glad to work out with you if you promise to be gentle haha

Do you mean Grandmaster Gray has a first name? I was speaking to a student in Nashville who meant Grandmaster Gray and that was how he introduced himself to someone that he never met. That's a bit offputting. Say what you what about GM The', he's as humble and down to earth in person as anyone I've met.

[MasterKiller]

MK actually doesn't care that much about this issue. But it's the most active thread on this board and keeps him amused at work.

[Judge Pen]

This thread keeps me amused at work to, but your contribution to it is beneficial and welcome even if I don't agree with you.

[sean_stonehart]

This thread keeps me amused at work to, but your contribution to it is beneficial and welcome even if I don't agree with you.

But you didn't speak of yourself in the cool 3rd person like MK did there. That was amusing in itself... :p;)

[Yao Sing]

Who's to say he DOESN'T have something signed by Ie that names him grandmaster? Do you know he doesn't have that document?

I'm sure you don't see how ridiculous this sounds or you wouldn't say it but why would he offer up a lesser document to back up his claim?

I can claim Bruce Lee named me the GM of JKD before he died and you can't prove I don't have the document proving it can you? It could be hidden somewhere in my closet right?

MK actually doesn't care that much about this issue. But it's the most active thread on this board and keeps him amused at work.

Pretty much same here but I do think some of the BS in CMA needs to do cleaned up and this thread seems to be actively attempting to do so as ar as SD goes. Plus I think it would really shake things up if there's some provable truth behind some of these claims.

So I agitate sometimes for 2 reasons - get the truth out and to get this thread to 500 pages, or infinity and beyond!

[Judge Pen]

But you didn't speak of yourself in the cool 3rd person like MK did there. That was amusing in itself... :p;)

I guess MK's cooler then me. :mad:

[Judge Pen]

I'm sure you don't see how ridiculous this sounds or you wouldn't say it but why would he offer up a lesser document to back up his claim?

I can claim Bruce Lee named me the GM of JKD before he died and you can't prove I don't have the document proving it can you? It could be hidden somewhere in my closet right?



Pretty much same here but I do think some of the BS in CMA needs to do cleaned up and this thread seems to be actively attempting to do so as ar as SD goes. Plus I think it would really shake things up if there's some provable truth behind some of these claims.

So I agitate sometimes for 2 reasons - get the truth out and to get this thread to 500 pages, or infinity and beyond!


As I've said, I've seen a transcription of a letter reportedly from Master Ie to GM The' which would validate the promotion to 10th if true. Interestingly, this letter is not validated by Master The' or anyone in his camp. It references Master Ie's travels, GM The's promotion, and the rumored familial relationship between Master Ie and the The brothers (which Master Hiang advoctes and Master The' denies). If the contents of the letter are true, then it would serve as some validation of the promotion. I have doubts because the origin of the letter (it was provided, to my knowledge, by one of Hiang's students and reposted here ages ago), but it does reference three "treasures" that Master Ie gave to Master The': One being Master Ie's pipe, which I've seen with my own eyes.

It may be that the letter is fake. It may be that it is true. At this point its all interesting supposition since I've never seen the actual letter, had it idenpendantly translated etc.

[mkriii]

This thread keeps getting funnier each day. Well I have a letter from Dr Massaki Hatsumi that says that I'm going to be the 35th generation Gradmaster of his lineage of Ninjutsu. I even have a personal shuriken of his to prove that this is an authentic letter that only he wrote.

[OTD]

Its daylight troll, how did you get out of your mushroom
Please see my post 7028
OTD

[mkriii]

Well first off I do interact and post with other people that do my style. My style is Sil Lum Kung Fu which is the Cantonese pronounciation of Shaolin. We use the term Sil Lum instead of Shaolin because we do not wish to be associated with a bogus art such as Shaolin Do Karate, espacially since we are in the same town as "grandmaster" Sin The'. Being associated with that organization is bad for business.

[Judge Pen]

Well first off I do interact and post with other people that do my style. My style is Sil Lum Kung Fu which is the Cantonese pronounciation of Shaolin. We use the term Sil Lum instead of Shaolin because we do not wish to be associated with a bogus art such as Shaolin Do Karate, espacially since we are in the same town as "grandmaster" Sin The'. Being associated with that organization is bad for business.

And trying to discredit SD is probably good for your business, no?

[sean_stonehart]

Well first off I do interact and post with other people that do my style. My style is Sil Lum Kung Fu which is the Cantonese pronounciation of Shaolin. We use the term Sil Lum instead of Shaolin because we do not wish to be associated with a bogus art such as Shaolin Do Karate, espacially since we are in the same town as "grandmaster" Sin The'. Being associated with that organization is bad for business.

An example of interaction... From the Dragon's List (http://www.dragonslist.com/discussion/other/20074-training-exercises.html)

from the dragon's list...
------------------
training exercises
I was wanting to get some suggestions from people on some traditional training/conditioning exercises like what you would see in the old kung fu movies. I plan on using some of these with my students so that they don't get bored with the same ole' exercised. I'm looking for conditioning and training exercises. For example, I was planning on the conditioning exercise where the student gets in a push up position and he holds that while an inscent stick is burning under his chest (if he drops it would burn him). Another one was doing push ups on the back of thier wrists. If anyone knows of any off the wall stuff like this please post it. Thanks.
__________________
Mark Reed

Pain is temporary pride is forever.


Welcome to the fire... it was safer in the frying pan...

[mkriii]

I don't have to discredit SD, it does that all on its own. I mean come on....an art using japanese uniforms and japanese terms, claiming to teach a chinese art by a man from indonesia. It doesn't take a mental heavyweight to figure this one out. Besides I have a brown belt from Sin The'. I got it back in the early 80's. I know what he teaches. I think that gives me the right to say what I think and know to be true about SD.

[mkriii]

I know that when I studied under him you could not make ANY contact when sparring. He taught Japanese weapons such as the nunchucks and sai. Whats up with that? We have a saying....Sin us the money and you can Hiang your diploma on the wall. Funny huh?

[Judge Pen]

I hear a very large axe being grinded.

Tell me, mkriii, do you know Frank Sexton?

Or can you tell me about the deadly vibrating palm technique!

[mkriii]

why do you ask? What does Frank Sexton have to do with this discussion? Or vibrating palms? Frank Sexton is with Ng family not Shaolin Do.

[Judge Pen]

I know that when I studied under him you could not make ANY contact when sparring. He taught Japanese weapons such as the nunchucks and sai. Whats up with that? We have a saying....Sin us the money and you can Hiang your diploma on the wall. Funny huh?

When did you say you trained with Master Sin and Master Hiang? Well given that they split in 83 or so, that would have made you 10 years old! Isn't your birthday July 17, 1973? I don't let 10 year olds make contact either!

[Judge Pen]

why do you ask? What does Frank Sexton have to do with this discussion? Or vibrating palms? Frank Sexton is with Ng family not Shaolin Do.

Because Mr. Sexton came on this forum a couple of years ago, showed his arse and made an idiot of himself and disrespected his teacher in the process. That's the typical response we're used to.

[mkriii]

I studied at the great Sin The' Sport Center on Richmond Road back probably in 1983 or 84 somewhere around then. I was about 11 or 12 years old. If you don't let children that are ten years old make contact then thats pathetic. But anyways, I had grown adults in class with me at the Sport Center and they couldn't make contact either. My Sifu (or as SD calls them sensei since they use Japanese terms) lets children make light contact and we have NEVER had a problem. Yes I know Sifu Frank Sexton but he is not my Sifu. My teacher is Master John Dufresne. You know the one that was attacked by your fellow SD brothers at a karate tournament and Dufresne kicked all of their rear ends.

[bodhi warrior]

sin and hiang were still together in '86. Hiang did my blackbelt test at the sin the' sportscenter.
What is the name of the sil lum school in lexington?

[Judge Pen]

I studied at the great Sin The' Sport Center on Richmond Road back probably in 1983 or 84 somewhere around then. I was about 11 or 12 years old. If you don't let children that are ten years old make contact then thats pathetic. But anyways, I had grown adults in class with me at the Sport Center and they couldn't make contact either. My Sifu (or as SD calls them sensei since they use Japanese terms) lets children make light contact and we have NEVER had a problem. Yes I know Sifu Frank Sexton but he is not my Sifu. My teacher is Master John Dufresne. You know the one that was attacked by your fellow SD brothers at a karate tournament and Dufresne kicked all of their rear ends.

I've personally corresponded with John Dufresne. He personally apologized to me for Mr. Sexton's behavior. Do yourself a favor, don't lose face and make him apologize for yours too.

[mkriii]

I thought they were together longer than 1983. I could have sworn I was about 12 when I was at the Sin The' Sport Center. I got to Brown belt under Sin The'.

[Judge Pen]

I thought they were together longer than 1983. I could have sworn I was about 12 when I was at the Sin The' Sport Center. I got to Brown belt under Sin The'.

According to bodhi warrior they were together in 1986. All I knew was that it was in the early to mid 80s. My point was, you were a child. Given the venom of your posts, maybe you still are.

[mkriii]

I'm not saying anything that isn't true. What have I said that wasn't true? So now you have to go bring John Dufresne into it and Frank Sexton and others? This conversation should be between the two of us, no one else. I studied under Sin The' and I know what it is all about. I got to brown belt in about 1 year. Thats crazy!!!! Under Sifu Dufresne it took me 2 years to get to brown and another year to get to my black sash (or belts as you all in SD use).

[OTD]

Shouldn't you be practicing the monaker pasted below your name?
OTD

[Judge Pen]

I'm not saying anything that isn't true. What have I said that wasn't true? So now you have to go bring John Dufresne into it and Frank Sexton and others? This conversation should be between the two of us, no one else. I studied under Sin The' and I know what it is all about. I got to brown belt in about 1 year. Thats crazy!!!! Under Sifu Dufresne it took me 2 years to get to brown and another year to get to my black sash (or belts as you all in SD use).

Reread the posts. I never mentioned John Dufresne until you did. I did metion Frank Sexton, because he came on here a few years ago acting exactly the same as you are now.

The things about the contact and the intensity of Master Hiang's classes is in direct conflict with everything that I've heard from the old timers (and even those who no longer study SD) The thing is your "experience" is different than everyone else's. Everything I've ever heard about Master Hiang is that his classes were rough and full of contact. You come in and say something different, but you neglected to tell us that you were pre-teen at the time......ok and you are in a style now that has a traditionally rivalry with sd.....ok and your posts are attacking in tone....ok That's three reasons to suspect your credibility.

It's ok to admit that you have a bias. I have a bias for SD. I try to be more objective with my thinking and less attacking in my posts (recent posts aside, you got under my skin I confess), but that's just me.

If you come to a site and speak of your style and your teachers, you bring them into the conversation. What you do represents them too. Maybe you should have thought of that.

[mkriii]

I was just merely saying that Frank Sexton was not my teacher because I thought you might assume he was and I wanted to clear that up and let you know that Dufresne was. I wasn't intentionaly bringing my teacher into this. As for John Dufresne appologizing for Frank Sexton I don't believe that. Why would he appologize for someone that is not his student. Sexton is Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng's student, not John Dufresne's. Now back on topic, maybe Hiang The' changed his teaching methods after I quit but I assure you that NONE of the people in my class were allowed to make contact when sparring. I had both young and old in my class. Me and my dad started class together along with some other father/sons that were in the class. My dad eventually quit but I continued up till brown belt. I was 13 when I got my brown belt and we still could not make contact. Since you seem to know alot about SD and Sin The', why does Sin The discourage any of his students from competing at any tournaments? And don't give me the..... It's to deadly for tourtnament lecture. Heard that one to many times. The only tournament he allows students to participate in is if it's his tournament. Could this be because he wants all their money for himself and not let them give it to another tournament promoter or could it be he doesn't want them to see how bad they really are? Just curious.

[mkriii]

Why did I get under your skin if you have a bias towards SD? Why do you take up for them if you don't even do Shaolin Do Karate? Makes no sense.

[Baqualin]

I was just merely saying that Frank Sexton was not my teacher because I thought you might assume he was and I wanted to clear that up and let you know that Dufresne was. I wasn't intentionaly bringing my teacher into this. As for John Dufresne appologizing for Frank Sexton I don't believe that. Why would he appologize for someone that is not his student. Sexton is Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng's student, not John Dufresne's. Now back on topic, maybe Hiang The' changed his teaching methods after I quit but I assure you that NONE of the people in my class were allowed to make contact when sparring. I had both young and old in my class. Me and my dad started class together along with some other father/sons that were in the class. My dad eventually quit but I continued up till brown belt. I was 13 when I got my brown belt and we still could not make contact. Since you seem to know alot about SD and Sin The', why does Sin The discourage any of his students from competing at any tournaments? And don't give me the..... It's to deadly for tourtnament lecture. Heard that one to many times. The only tournament he allows students to participate in is if it's his tournament. Could this be because he wants all their money for himself and not let them give it to another tournament promoter or could it be he doesn't want them to see how bad they really are? Just curious.

OK Mkriii,
I'm here in Lex.....been here since 1974....started with GMS & M. Hiang in 1974 and I'm still with GMS & I'm one of the internal instructors at the Lex. school....always made contact except to face & joints......could compete in any tourney I wanted to and still can.....a lot of SD students do......LIKE JP for one.......at 12 or 13 you were a child & still seem to be, for you have no idea what your talking about:D
BQ

[Judge Pen]

I was just merely saying that Frank Sexton was not my teacher because I thought you might assume he was and I wanted to clear that up and let you know that Dufresne was. I wasn't intentionaly bringing my teacher into this. As for John Dufresne appologizing for Frank Sexton I don't believe that. Why would he appologize for someone that is not his student. Sexton is Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng's student, not John Dufresne's. Now back on topic, maybe Hiang The' changed his teaching methods after I quit but I assure you that NONE of the people in my class were allowed to make contact when sparring. I had both young and old in my class. Me and my dad started class together along with some other father/sons that were in the class. My dad eventually quit but I continued up till brown belt. I was 13 when I got my brown belt and we still could not make contact. Since you seem to know alot about SD and Sin The', why does Sin The discourage any of his students from competing at any tournaments? And don't give me the..... It's to deadly for tourtnament lecture. Heard that one to many times. The only tournament he allows students to participate in is if it's his tournament. Could this be because he wants all their money for himself and not let them give it to another tournament promoter or could it be he doesn't want them to see how bad they really are? Just curious.


I'm not lying to you. If you don't believe me, speak to your teacher.

Thank you for conceading that there is a lot about SD that you don't know. I don't know why or how your calsses were run, but its certainly not my experience or many of the old timeres that I know and respect.

As for tournaments, I compete in open tournaments from time to time. I do it with my teachers knowledge and approval. There is the quote that is, paraphrasing "if your primary intent is tournaments, then go elsewhere" and that does touch on safety etc. I'm sure that many techniques in TCMA can translate to the ring effectively, but they are modified or muted by rules or protective equipment. That's the way it should be and not unique to just SD. Example, could you use Ng's famed vibrating palm technique safely in a tournament?

Your posts show that you know little about SD. I'll be glad to answer your questions if we can have an adult conversation about these points.

[mkriii]

OK Baqualin...I don't know what I'm talking about? If thats not the pot calling the kettle black...LMAO. I was judging at Ken Eubank's Bluegrass National Karate Tournament and saw this little blonde hair kid (about 15 or 16 yrs old) coming to the ring I was judging at. He was carrying a homemade Quan Do made with a cardboard blade on top of a pole. To top it all off he was wearing a Shaolin Do Karate uniform. It was so funny that it was sad. Poor kid, he tried his best though despite the make shift Quan Do.

[Judge Pen]

OK Baqualin...I don't know what I'm talking about? If thats not the pot calling the kettle black...LMAO. I was judging at Ken Eubank's Bluegrass National Karate Tournament and saw this little blonde hair kid (about 15 or 16 yrs old) coming to the ring I was judging at. He was carrying a homemade Quan Do made with a cardboard blade on top of a pole. To top it all off he was wearing a Shaolin Do Karate uniform. It was so funny that it was sad. Poor kid, he tried his best though despite the make shift Quan Do.

So a 15 year old kid couldn't afford a kwan do and thought it was funny and sad? :rolleyes: Who are you to pass judgment like that? That's why you get under my skin--I can take all the detractors that make valid points and discuss things intelligently and with respect and class, but I don't suffer fools.

[mkriii]

If Master Dufresne appologized for Frank's comments it was only to be polite not because it was his student.

[Judge Pen]

If Master Dufresne appologized for Frank's comments it was only to be polite not because it was his student.

He sought me out and sent a message to my private e-mail. It was more than being polite, don't you think? I don't see eye to eye with J. Dufresene on everything, but he has always treated me with respect and class, so I can respect that about him (others may have a different opinion, but thats been my personal experience). Given that, you have a lot still to learn from your teacher.

[mkriii]

You wouldn't let him use a Quan Do from your school? My teacher would let me borrow any weapon I wanted to if I was going to compete. He let any of his students use the schools weapons but I guess Grandmaster Sin would rather the student buy thier own weapon (from him of course). And yes it was sad and funny at the same time.

[Judge Pen]

You wouldn't let him use a Quan Do from your school? My teacher would let me borrow any weapon I wanted to if I was going to compete. He let any of his students use the schools weapons but I guess Grandmaster Sin would rather the student buy thier own weapon (from him of course). And yes it was sad and funny at the same time.

There's no requirement that I buy weapons from Master Sin or my teachers. I buy them where I want to. And I'm sure he could have borrowed one. Maybe the kid made it himself and was proud of that. For you to point to something as asinine as this as further support of your opinion of SD and its multiple faults shows your character, not anyone in SD.

[mkriii]

You know what, last time I checked the name of this thread it was "Is Shaolin Do real?" It was my impression that the person who started this thread wanted information and input on this style of martial art. That is what I have done. I have given him my opinion based on what I have seen and done (21 years ago) in Shaolin Do Karate. He may do what he wishes with what I have said. If he wants to ignore it then thats fine.

[Judge Pen]

You know what, last time I checked the name of this thread it was "Is Shaolin Do real?" It was my impression that the person who started this thread wanted information and input on this style of martial art. That is what I have done. I have given him my opinion based on what I have seen and done (21 years ago) in Shaolin Do Karate. He may do what he wishes with what I have said. If he wants to ignore it then thats fine.


Appropriately, this thread was started by a troll. This first post of this thread was his only post. I'm not faulting you for posting your experiences--I welcome them--but the manner of your posts are insulting and full of venom and ignorance. That's what offends me.

But, then again, its a public internet forum. It attracts all kinds so I shouldn't be surprised.

[mkriii]

I'm not the only one who thinks this. Every forum that I have been to has made SD the joke of the forum. Why are you singling me out? Why not the 100's of others on this forum or the Dragon's List that has made similiar comments? Or is it because I'm from the Ng family of kung fu or from Four Seasons Kung Fu & Wu Shu Academy? So I notice you never mentioned the attack on Master Dufresne at Sin The's tournament back in the 80's. Eight or nine SD students tried to beat him and his partner up but failed. It was all set up and orchastrated by Hwiang The'. Did anyone ever appologize for that incident, not to my knowledge.

[Baqualin]

OK Baqualin...I don't know what I'm talking about? If thats not the pot calling the kettle black...LMAO.

That statement makes absolutely no since at all:eek:


I was judging at Ken Eubank's Bluegrass National Karate Tournament and saw this little blonde hair kid (about 15 or 16 yrs old) coming to the ring I was judging at. He was carrying a homemade Quan Do made with a cardboard blade on top of a pole. To top it all off he was wearing a Shaolin Do Karate uniform. It was so funny that it was sad. Poor kid, he tried his best though despite the make shift Quan Do.

I thought we couldn't compete in outside tourneys:confused:

[mkriii]

If Sin The is truely the Grandmaster of Shaolin Kung Fu then why is he not in China living in one of the Shaolin Temples? Oh no you can compete at open tournament but I heard GM Sin frowns apon it. Thats prob. why he had his makeshift Quan Do. As for the old saying about the pot calling the kettle black, you never heard that one before?

[Baqualin]

I'm not the only one who thinks this. Every forum that I have been to has made SD the joke of the forum. Why are you singling me out? Why not the 100's of others on this forum or the Dragon's List that has made similiar comments? Or is it because I'm from the Ng family of kung fu or from Four Seasons Kung Fu & Wu Shu Academy? So I notice you never mentioned the attack on Master Dufresne at Sin The's tournament back in the 80's. Eight or nine SD students tried to beat him and his partner up but failed. It was all set up and orchastrated by Hwiang The'. Did anyone ever appologize for that incident, not to my knowledge.

That's because we don't come on here and bash anybody...your the one draging this sh!t up not us....this has nothing to do with this thread or GMS or SD....I could say alot but I refuse to be CHILDISH like you:)
BQ

[Judge Pen]

I'm not the only one who thinks this. Every forum that I have been to has made SD the joke of the forum. Why are you singling me out? Why not the 100's of others on this forum or the Dragon's List that has made similiar comments? Or is it because I'm from the Ng family of kung fu or from Four Seasons Kung Fu & Wu Shu Academy? So I notice you never mentioned the attack on Master Dufresne at Sin The's tournament back in the 80's. Eight or nine SD students tried to beat him and his partner up but failed. It was all set up and orchastrated by Hwiang The'. Did anyone ever appologize for that incident, not to my knowledge.

I'm singling you out for your attitude. I've spoken with several people who may share your opinion on many of these points. Heck, I'm friends with some of them. I've crossed hands with others. Its all respectful and adult debate. Its the hotheads that spout off that get me ticked.

I have nothing agasint the Ng family. I trained with a guy who learned from Ng and he even taught me some of their forms ages ago. Its pretty good stuff. I know there was a rivalry that culminated in the incident with Dufresne, but to me that is ancient history. I wasn't there. Neither was Master Sin. I don't know what happened, but in all fairness neither do you. You know what J. Dufresne told you. I know what I've been told by some eye-witnesses. I know what J. Dufresne said about the incident, but I know that despite all of that, I don't know what really happened. I know there is a difference of opinion that will never be sorted out. I also know enough not to go around digging up the bones of the past, like this incident, as evidence of the current characther of an art that is comprised mainly of people who were not in control or even around with this happened.

As for other forums, I don't post on DL and I don't have the time to invest in another forum. I never put any stock in what others think. I'd be glad to sit down and have a beer or sweat with them in the kwoon if they want to know about my experiences. That's all I can control. If others think the same, then they are entitled to their opinion. Doesn't make it any more or less accurate, does it?

[Baqualin]

If Sin The is truely the Grandmaster of Shaolin Kung Fu then why is he not in China living in one of the Shaolin Temples?
:rolleyes:

Oh no you can compete at open tournament but I heard GM Sin frowns apon it.
:rolleyes:
Thats prob. why he had his makeshift Quan Do.
:rolleyes:
As for the old saying about the pot calling the kettle black, you never heard that one before?

Only when it's used properly and you didn't:)

[mkriii]

I wan't bashing SD until you lit in on me for speaking my oppinion on SD. I brought up the "did anyone appolagize about the attack on Dufresne" because you brought it up and said Dufresne appolagized about Frank Sextons comment. Your the one that brought up the past not me when you brought Frank Sexton into the conversation, did you not?

[Judge Pen]

If Sin The is truely the Grandmaster of Shaolin Kung Fu then why is he not in China living in one of the Shaolin Temples? Oh no you can compete at open tournament but I heard GM Sin frowns apon it. Thats prob. why he had his makeshift Quan Do. As for the old saying about the pot calling the kettle black, you never heard that one before?

He doesn't frown as far as I know. And you're guessing a lot about one kid with a home-made Kwan dao. My first kwan dao was homemade also. It's still my favorite.

You really should stop speaking about things that you don't know about.

As far as GMS not living in China in the temple all I can say is "really?" You think that makes a difference? Come on, you do Silum which is the cantonese pronouciation, right? Why isn't your teacher living in a temple too? What does that prove? The temples there now have been rebuilt and repopulated. Much of what was shaolin or silum left and has spread, but that doesn't make it any less shaolin (silum).

[Baqualin]

It was all set up and orchastrated by Hwiang The'. Did anyone ever appologize for that incident, not to my knowledge.[/QUOTE]

You might find a little fuel for the split (between MH & GMS)here...... you ask about in a earlier post;)....mister kettle

[Baqualin]

I wan't bashing SD until you lit in on me for speaking my oppinion on SD. I brought up the "did anyone appolagize about the attack on Dufresne" because you brought it up and said Dufresne appolagized about Frank Sextons comment. Your the one that brought up the past not me when you brought Frank Sexton into the conversation, did you not?

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused:
BQ

[Shaolin Wookie]

Well, I know the senior members of Shaolin-Do here are not impressed with MRKIII's comments, but I would urge them to truly listen to what he's saying.

I find his posts full of pertinent, useful, and well-thought-out information. His words have struck me to the very core, and my core shakes as if the leviathans of the deep were turning in the slime of the prime.

Oh......****.....that ain't the leviathans of the deep. I just had Taco Bell.

Excuse me.

[Judge Pen]

I wan't bashing SD until you lit in on me for speaking my oppinion on SD. I brought up the "did anyone appolagize about the attack on Dufresne" because you brought it up and said Dufresne appolagized about Frank Sextons comment. Your the one that brought up the past not me when you brought Frank Sexton into the conversation, did you not?


Yes I did. I left your teacher out of it, because I respected him for his treatment of me in the past. But let's be fair here, your first post was this So GM Sin The' claims he is the grandmaster? Well it's kind of funny how he can go from an 8th degree BB to a 10th degree BB in a matter of a few months. He leaves the country and comes back 2 degrees higher. I studied under Grandmaster Sin back in the early 80's and came to my senses and saught out some real martial art training. I've hear numerous stories of how he one some tournament and decided after that that he was good enough to be a 10th degree BB some he self promoted himself.

Attacking GMS' claim of being the grandmaster of his own system not from an outsider's position, like the conversations here with Yao Sing, but as if you had inside knowledge. You don't, but you acted like you did. Next:

I know that my teacher was at a tournament where Sin The' was twirling a staff that was on fire and he spun it so fast that the flames went out. After doing this he (sin the') said he was so good that he should be a 10th degree black belt. We will never know the truth because the former GM and Hairy Man are both dead. It is sad that there are so many people that are brain washed by all this BS. I know it's BS because I was a student of GM Sin's back at the Sin The' Sports Center on Richmond Rd. back in the early 80's (1982 I think).

You weren't at the tournament, so your taking someone else's word, but then you jump right in an claim that we are all brainwashed by bs. Well that's a spurrious comment and one that is in contradiction with many here who openly and thoughfully discuss the lineage and history issues. Trust me, I practice this art with free will and open eyes. Then, after I pointed out you seemed to have an ax to grind, your tone changed for a while. But eventually you went back to to talking about how funny things were and how silly your training was (when you were a kid).

Maybe I've been to harsh on you. Maybe its because my legs are so sore that I can barely walk this morning after leaving everything I had on the mat yesterday for my test that I'm grumpier and taking things a bit to personally. But we certainly got off on the wrong foot here. I think you should adopt the attitude of one of your previous posts:I think that everyone should just let Sin The' be. If you choose to believe he is the GM and believe his lineage story then believe it, if you don't believe then so be it. debating this issue will not solve a thing. GM Sin The' will continue to teach and oversee 100's of Shaolin Do schools. I personally don't believe all he claims to know or even believe he deserves his 10th degree black belt or title of Grandmaster. I think that is something that you have to earn and I don't believe he earned it. I think he promoted himself. Having said that, nothing has changed. So as i asked before, is anything going to change with this debate. I doubt it.

If that's how you belienve, then great. Peace to you.

[Citong Shifu]

Yes I did. I left your teacher out of it, because I respected him for his treatment of me in the past. But let's be fair here, your first post was this

Attacking GMS' claim of being the grandmaster of his own system not from an outsider's position, like the conversations here with Yao Sing, but as if you had inside knowledge. You don't, but you acted like you did. Next:



You weren't at the tournament, so your taking someone else's word, but then you jump right in an claim that we are all brainwashed by bs. Well that's a spurrious comment and one that is in contradiction with many here who openly and thoughfully discuss the lineage and history issues. Trust me, I practice this art with free will and open eyes. Then, after I pointed out you seemed to have an ax to grind, your tone changed for a while. But eventually you went back to to talking about how funny things were and how silly your training was (when you were a kid).

Maybe I've been to harsh on you. Maybe its because my legs are so sore that I can barely walk this morning after leaving everything I had on the mat yesterday for my test that I'm grumpier and taking things a bit to personally. But we certainly got off on the wrong foot here. I think you should adopt the attitude of one of your previous posts:

If that's how you belienve, then great. Peace to you.

Hey JP, I can't believe your giving this guy so much of your attention, lol... I don't know this guy and have nothing against him or his view/s, but, whatch ya do'n, lol...

On a serious note, SD is SD, possibly more, possibly less who knows? The point I'm making is, lets get onto some actual SD coversation/s that varify, disprove, or neither. Anything but this bullsh#t...

Anyway, I still haven't been able to really trace back any of the ST's lineage names to current SD or kungfu school affiliates in indonesia or China. At this point, I dont think I really care anymore. I was just curious about SD lineage and authenticity not spending hours researching SD. Those hours I need for my own personal training, know what I mean? Anywho, still interesting, can't wait to meet up with some of you guys....

[tattooedmonk]

I ordered this book when the post was put up about it. I just got notice that my account was refunded with no explanation. It was supposed to be here at the latest last friday . What BS.

[DPL]

I'm sure you don't see how ridiculous this sounds or you wouldn't say it...


You guys are as dependable as gas the day after taco night. So it's okay for YOU YOURSELF to say this, just, like, one freaking day ago:

...there seems to be a lack of concrete evidence for either position...

... but it's not okay for me to say essentially exactly the same thing only from the SD perspective? OH WAIT, it's because I said it from the SD perspective.

Now go ahead, write a long treatise on how the large gaping hole of consistency in your approach is actually justified because you didn't really mean it the way you wrote it.

By the way, JP - congrats.

[bodhi warrior]

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused:
BQ

Hey JP, I can't believe your giving this guy so much of your attention, lol... I don't know this guy and have nothing against him or his view/s, but, whatch ya do'n, lol...

On a serious note, SD is SD, possibly more, possibly less who knows? The point I'm making is, lets get onto some actual SD coversation/s that varify, disprove, or neither. Anything but this bullsh#t...

Anyway, I still haven't been able to really trace back any of the ST's lineage names to current SD or kungfu school affiliates in indonesia or China. At this point, I dont think I really care anymore. I was just curious about SD lineage and authenticity not spending hours researching SD. Those hours I need for my own personal training, know what I mean? Anywho, still interesting, can't wait to meet up with some of you hguys....

I think hiang's website lists some names he studied with.

[tattooedmonk]

...is up and running. I am glad to here that SML is doing well.

[tattooedmonk]

...who is the new douche bag MRKIII??

[mkriii]

Whatever man. We all know what SD is all about. End of subject. That all I'm going to say about it.

[kungfujunky]

Whatever man. We all know what SD is all about. End of subject. That all I'm going to say about it.



phew glad thats over

hahaha

[bodhi warrior]

just got through checking out the new website and noticed a change in the story of gm Ie. I have two books that state gm Ie was taking a short cut when confronted by the soldiers he killed. On the new website it says his wife was being attacked by the soldier. Anyone have any info on this?

[sean_stonehart]

just got through checking out the new website and noticed a change in the story of gm Ie. I have two books that state gm Ie was taking a short cut when confronted by the soldiers he killed. On the new website it says his wife was being attacked by the soldier. Anyone have any info on this?


Ooops... conflicting stories... need clarification on isle 3.

[Lamassu]

Ooops... conflicting stories... need clarification on isle 3.

*sigh* It's a thankless job. :(

[bodhi warrior]

just got through checking out the new website and noticed a change in the story of gm Ie. I have two books that state gm Ie was taking a short cut when confronted by the soldiers he killed. On the new website it says his wife was being attacked by the soldier. Anyone have any info on this?

[mkriii]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2096.html

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1999.html

Check this out. More from the archives about this topic. Just a few of the many I found.

[kungfujunky]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2096.html

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1999.html

Check this out. More from the archives about this topic. Just a few of the many I found.



i thought you were done?

man there went my happy mood!

[Baqualin]

Mak Reed III

It is better to sit in silence and be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:eek::):D;):cool::p
BQ

[Judge Pen]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2096.html

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1999.html

Check this out. More from the archives about this topic. Just a few of the many I found.

You mean they were arguing the same points back in 1999 and no one has proved anything yet? Man, what a merry-go-round this is!

[kungfujunky]

hey jp check this out!

http://www.centralshaolin.com/cshaolin_pages/material_list_cubine.html

all the way at the bottom of his material list (3rd from the bottom)

hehe

[tattooedmonk]

hey jp check this out!

http://www.centralshaolin.com/cshaolin_pages/material_list_cubine.html

all the way at the bottom of his material list (3rd from the bottom)

heheyeah, the judges pen!!:D:):p

[tattooedmonk]

Whatever man. We all know what SD is all about. End of subject. That all I'm going to say about it.So what is it ALL about, Einstein??

[tattooedmonk]

Mak Reed III

It is better to sit in silence and be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:eek::):D;):cool::p
BQ.....LMAO:D

[tattooedmonk]

just got through checking out the new website and noticed a change in the story of gm Ie. I have two books that state gm Ie was taking a short cut when confronted by the soldiers he killed. On the new website it says his wife was being attacked by the soldier. Anyone have any info on this?
Maybe these are just two parts of the same story. This might be giving a little more insight as to why he was set off and did what he did.

I know if someone started messing with my wife they would not stand a chance.:D:cool:

[Mei Hua]

Beware the true power of Shaolin Do black belts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnpaW5hXWDg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edragonslist%2Ecom%2Fdiscus sion%2Fanimal%2Dforms%2Dstyles%2F19987%2Dwanted%2D info%2Dshaolin%2Ddo%2Dkarate%2D5%2Ehtml) :eek:

[kungfujunky]

ive seen that vid.....the forms are almost technically correct but the spirit of the tiger is lacking imo

also they dont look like beginners but first blacks from what i can see.

interesting

[tattooedmonk]

ive seen that vid.....the forms are almost technically correct but the spirit of the tiger is lacking imo

also they dont look like beginners but first blacks from what i can see.

interestingBlack belt is just the beginning. And yes they do look like beginners.

[brucereiter]

ive seen that vid.....the forms are almost technically correct but the spirit of the tiger is lacking imo

also they dont look like beginners but first blacks from what i can see.

interesting

the 2 guys in that video were brown belts (not black belts) at the time of the video being shot, they were very much beginners and had just "learned" the basic postures of the form shown.

[Mei Hua]

the 2 guys in that video were brown belts (not black belts) at the time of the video being shot, they were very much beginners and had just "learned" the basic postures of the form shown.

For brown belts, their technical skill and application was horrible!

I have students that have been with me six weeks that can perform better and have a better core than the crap I saw those frauds doing

[BentMonk]

For brown belts, their technical skill and application was horrible!

I have students that have been with me six weeks that can perform better and have a better core than the crap I saw those frauds doing

Are we to infer by your comment that these same students would have the right amount of technical skill, application, and core after six weeks of instruction by you?

Just because something is poorly performed does not mean that the original is worthless.

[Judge Pen]

Beware the true power of Shaolin Do black belts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnpaW5hXWDg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edragonslist%2Ecom%2Fdiscus sion%2Fanimal%2Dforms%2Dstyles%2F19987%2Dwanted%2D info%2Dshaolin%2Ddo%2Dkarate%2D5%2Ehtml) :eek:

Not that my videos make SD look any better, but I think there is real merit in SD as a art and there are some very poor represntations depending on your instruction. I know some schools that do it right: a balance of conditioning, drills, instruction, application and sparring. I know others that make short-cuts. The second guy in the video is much better than the first. I could nit-pick some of his technique, but I can do that to myself as well (easily).

And these weren't SD black belts. This is a form that is done right before black and its obvious that they were new to the form.

[Mei Hua]

Are we to infer by your comment that these same students would have the right amount of technical skill, application, and core after six weeks of instruction by you?

Just because something is poorly performed does not mean that the original is worthless.
When one has reached the level of brown belt, regardless of style, one has spent enough time and effort in their training to have a solid core foundation and technical ability.

Those forms were not only horribly sloppy, they lacked power, did not represent Tiger very well and sucked. That comes from their instruction and those heading their system and the system itself.

Perhaps to you crappy martial arts are ok as is being a LARPer, not to me

[Judge Pen]

For brown belts, their technical skill and application was horrible!

I have students that have been with me six weeks that can perform better and have a better core than the crap I saw those frauds doing

That is a function of the student and the teacher. I've seen students in SD that were better after 6 weeks also. It just depends. BTW, the second guy has potential. There are a few things in his form that can be corrected and there needs to be that intensity and flavor to the form, but if they just learned the postures, then that's more than forgivable.

[Judge Pen]

When one has reached the level of brown belt, regardless of style, one has spent enough time and effort in their training to have a solid core foundation and technical ability.

Those forms were not only horribly sloppy, they lacked power, did not represent Tiger very well and sucked. That comes from their instruction and those heading their system and the system itself.

Perhaps to you crappy martial arts are ok as is being a LARPer, not to me

Its easy to sit back and say that, but everyone trains for different reasons. Is a teacher going to turn away students that enjoy learning because they may not be very good at it? Or is a teacher going to reward a student for hard work and improvment based upon where they were in the begining? Only a very few number of students actually get "good" at an art, but the rest certainly improve from where they were and have fun doing it. What, pray tell, is wrong with that?

[kungfujunky]

i wasnt saying they sucked lol

if indeed they had just learned that form then they did better than most i have seen new to that particular form.

but i agree jp

the second guy definitely had a better feel for it from what i saw

[Toby]

Is a teacher going to turn away students that enjoy learning because they may not be very good at it? Or is a teacher going to reward a student for hard work and improvment based upon where they were in the begining? Only a very few number of students actually get "good" at an art, but the rest certainly improve from where they were and have fun doing it. What, pray tell, is wrong with that?I'm not a teacher in martial arts, and I doubt I ever will be (commercially - I might teach my family if they're willing to learn). I've taught both mental and physical pursuits at a high level in the past. I wish you could only teach good students. Teaching good students is infinitely easier than teaching poor students. Poor students also drain resources much more (specifically time). And poor students possibly are a bad investment - I'd personally like to cull them from the group. E.g. there are a couple of guys at the school I train at that IMHO don't belong in the group that they train with, but they've put in time. There are others that are junior to them that already eclipse them. IMHO they'll never get it. One has physical barriers due to advanced age, one just doesn't seem to listen or just isn't aware of his shortcomings. They have a certain rank that means that possibly beginners will watch them and try to emulate them, and that worries me because it could hurt the development of the people watching them. I have definitely heard one of them on multiple occasions telling and showing junior people what to do, and it makes me cringe. It's not my business to override them, but I really have to bite my lip. I can see how teaching kung fu must be hard - how does one deal with students like that?

[Judge Pen]

I'm not a teacher in martial arts, and I doubt I ever will be (commercially - I might teach my family if they're willing to learn). I've taught both mental and physical pursuits at a high level in the past. I wish you could only teach good students. Teaching good students is infinitely easier than teaching poor students. Poor students also drain resources much more (specifically time). And poor students possibly are a bad investment - I'd personally like to cull them from the group. E.g. there are a couple of guys at the school I train at that IMHO don't belong in the group that they train with, but they've put in time. There are others that are junior to them that already eclipse them. IMHO they'll never get it. One has physical barriers due to advanced age, one just doesn't seem to listen or just isn't aware of his shortcomings. They have a certain rank that means that possibly beginners will watch them and try to emulate them, and that worries me because it could hurt the development of the people watching them. I have definitely heard one of them on multiple occasions telling and showing junior people what to do, and it makes me cringe. It's not my business to override them, but I really have to bite my lip. I can see how teaching kung fu must be hard - how does one deal with students like that?

These problems are only compounded when you are running a business--especially if your full time job is an instructor. It's a difficult problem, but in my exerience, most of these types of students eventually drift off because the material and physical demands get too difficult even for the more relaxed standards that they subject themselves to. That, or in the best case, a light bulb goes off and they suddenly start to get it and their form and discipline improve. I've seen both, but unfortunately, the former is far more common then the later.

[Lamassu]

For brown belts, their technical skill and application was horrible!

I have students that have been with me six weeks that can perform better and have a better core than the crap I saw those frauds doing

Yay another one!!! I just love hearing from the peanut gallery that shows up out of the blue and just start talking sh!t about SD! You're so awesome Mei Hua, I must say we're all genuinely impressed over here!:rolleyes: Wow, nobody has EVER posted that video on this forum before and no one's EVER accused SD of being fake either. You're so insightful, you've opened my eyes and I have now seen the light. All it took was a super duper awesome martial art master like yourself to point out the blatantly overdone to the rest of us to make me realize that I've spent the last 6 years of my life living a lie *sigh*. Can I join your school and be your student, granddaddy master of all that's awesome Mei Hua? I would just LOVE to learn (insert whatever crappy MA you claim to teach and know) under your wise and experienced tutalage. :rolleyes:

[Mei Hua]

WOW!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


The number of pathetic LARPers on this forum are amazing, no wonder the CMA's get such a horrible reputation and suck so bad, they have the morons like you fools leading the way

[Judge Pen]

WOW!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


The number of pathetic LARPers on this forum are amazing, no wonder the CMA's get such a horrible reputation and suck so bad, they have the morons like you fools leading the way

That's constructive. Get personal why don't ya? :D If you're not impressed with the members of the forum, then don't post. It sounds as if you don't need any more negativity in your life.

[Lamassu]

WOW!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


The number of pathetic LARPers on this forum are amazing, no wonder the CMA's get such a horrible reputation and suck so bad, they have the morons like you fools leading the way

Forgive me super duper granddaddy big kahoona mega master of (insert crappy MA you claim to teach and know). I did not mean to offend, I supplicate myself and humbly beg to learn (insert crappy MA you claim to teach and know). Show me the way of whatever MA you're apparently teaching.

To the rest of the unenlightened SD practitioners out there:
You arrogant dogs!!! How dare you continue to study and practice SD after the great Mei Hua has clearly stated it's crap!! You should all be ashamed of yourselves for not taking his overgeneralized and baseless attack on SD to heart and begin anew...particularly with (insert crappy MA Mei Hua claims to teach and know).

[Toby]

It's a difficult problem, but in my exerience, most of these types of students eventually drift off because the material and physical demands get too difficult even for the more relaxed standards that they subject themselves to. That, or in the best case, a light bulb goes off and they suddenly start to get it and their form and discipline improve. I've seen both, but unfortunately, the former is far more common then the later.I've hoped for the former with one guy. The old guy - it'll get to hard for him eventually, although he's given a fair bit of leeway e.g. people take it easy on him, he doesn't spar, etc. Personally I avoid training with him, only done it once. I'm scared he'll break (he looks like he's pushing 80). But the other guy, he's been training for maybe 6 years. He's there every day. He finishes work pretty early every day then goes straight to the school, does not quite enough training to break a sweat, then just sits around for a couple of hours until class starts. I've seen him sleeping in his car in the car park. Maybe he doesn't have a home to go to or something, maybe he doesn't like training. But he's always there. If it was me I'd be using the facilities and other people there to train with but nope. He's just there taking up space. He's a mystery for sure. I avoid training with him too :p . He just doesn't seem to get a lot of the core principles, stuff that's been hammered into us from day 1. Strange.

[Judge Pen]

I've hoped for the former with one guy. The old guy - it'll get to hard for him eventually, although he's given a fair bit of leeway e.g. people take it easy on him, he doesn't spar, etc. Personally I avoid training with him, only done it once. I'm scared he'll break (he looks like he's pushing 80). But the other guy, he's been training for maybe 6 years. He's there every day. He finishes work pretty early every day then goes straight to the school, does not quite enough training to break a sweat, then just sits around for a couple of hours until class starts. I've seen him sleeping in his car in the car park. Maybe he doesn't have a home to go to or something, maybe he doesn't like training. But he's always there. If it was me I'd be using the facilities and other people there to train with but nope. He's just there taking up space. He's a mystery for sure. I avoid training with him too :p . He just doesn't seem to get a lot of the core principles, stuff that's been hammered into us from day 1. Strange.

I've seen some students like that. Its like they don't have much of a life, but yet they don't fully dedicate themselves to the proper training of martial arts either. That's frusterating.

BTW, what style do you train in ? Nice to meet you here on this train-wreck of the thread! :p

[mkriii]

Hello Mei, is that you? It's Jade Dragon from the DL.

[Judge Pen]

Hello Mei, is that you? It's Jade Dragon from the DL.

a DL connection? That makes sense....

[mkriii]

Hello all. How the heck are all you SD students and teachers? Hope the world is treating you good. I feel on top of the world. Life is good....no, life is grand because I am grand. I see my old buddy Mei Hua has joined the forum. He's a great guy and shares a lot of my opinions. As a matter of fact I told him about this great conversation we've been having and told him he should join in. Do you not like the DL?

[MasterKiller]

So MKRiii's buddy calls SD LARPers, all the while MKRiii was getting conditioning ideas from Shaw Brothers' movies?

I love this thread!

[Lamassu]

Life is indeed grand. :)

[mkriii]

So I have a question for all you SD people, Are you tring to tell me that GM Sin has mastered over 600 forms? And he did this by age 25 when he was given the title of GM? He didn't start training till age 6. that means he mastered 37.5 forms a year. Thats 600 forms devided by the number of years he had trained (which is 16) and thats 37.5

Unbelievable. He must be like rainman. No human can master that many forms unless he has supernatural powers.

[mkriii]

I like how you TRY to turn the tables on me by bringing up the training exercises from shaw bros. movies. Well it didn't work. Your just trying to take the heat off you.

[Lamassu]

So I have a question for all you SD people, Are you tring to tell me that GM Sin has mastered over 600 forms? And he did this by age 25 when he was given the title of GM? He didn't start training till age 6. that means he mastered 37.5 forms a year. Thats 600 forms devided by the number of years he had trained (which is 16) and thats 37.5

Unbelievable. He must be like rainman. No human can master that many forms unless he has supernatural powers.

OMG!!!! :eek: You're absolutely right! Never in all my training have I thought about this before. While we're on the subject aren't we, a chinese martial art school, wearing Japanese gi's, and isn't 'Do' Japanese for 'the way'? No no, none of this is making sense at all!

Mei Hua! I beg you earnestly to take me in as your student in (insert whatever crappy MA you claim to teach and know)! mkriii, could you give a good word for me to the ultimate super duper granddaddy of complete and total awesomeness Mei Hua? I feel it's fate that has brought him into my life and I must LEARN from him!

so many lies... so many lies... :(

[mkriii]

I tell you what Lamassu, maybe....just maybe he will take you on as his student if you spill a whole bowl of rice and then pick them up and count them one at a time like GM Sin did. If you get the correct amount he might except you as his student.

[MasterKiller]

I like how you TRY to turn the tables on me by bringing up the training exercises from shaw bros. movies. Well it didn't work. Your just trying to take the heat off you.

For the record, I am not and have never been an SD'er.

[mkriii]

So why defend SD? Are you just a wanna be SD student or Did GM Sin not want you as a student?

[MasterKiller]

So why defend SD? Are you just a wanna be SD student or Did GM Sin not want you as a student?

I wish! I've been trying to learn the secrets of Golden Snake since I was 15!

[DPL]

Why's it gotta all be about SD? He was just calling you out for being a doofus. No more, no less.

Although, MK, you've posted so much on the subject we could always make you an honorary SD'er.

[Lamassu]

I tell you what Lamassu, maybe....just maybe he will take you on as his student if you spill a whole bowl of rice and then pick them up and count them one at a time like GM Sin did. If you get the correct amount he might except you as his student.

So I get to spill the bowl of rice? Sweet! Mei Hua is a kind and generous teacher to let me in (insert whatever crappy MA you claim to teach and know) so easily.

There I'm done! There are 845 grains of rice. Boy was that easy! :p

[mkriii]

846 grains of rice, you were one off. Guess your not excepted.

[MasterKiller]

Although, MK, you've posted so much on the subject we could always make you an honorary SD'er.
I barely have time to keep up my own handsets. ;)

[Lamassu]

846 grains of rice, you were one off. Guess your not excepted.

No, you're wrong. Since I was the one that spilled the bowl of rice then I already knew how many were in there to start with. 845. You shame Mei Hua. :(

[mkriii]

Thanks but no thanks. Already have a brown belt in SD.

[Lamassu]

I barely have time to keep up my own handsets. ;)

CURSES!!!!! :mad: MK was actually defending SD for a bit! :eek: We were THIS close to bringing him over to the dark side of the force.

[Judge Pen]

I like how you TRY to turn the tables on me by bringing up the training exercises from shaw bros. movies. Well it didn't work. Your just trying to take the heat off you.

I don't feel any heat, but that's because I don't do my push-ups ontop of a burning incense stick....

[Lamassu]

Thanks but no thanks. Already have a brown belt in SD.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused:

Are you crazy? Is that your problem?

[Judge Pen]

So I have a question for all you SD people, Are you tring to tell me that GM Sin has mastered over 600 forms? And he did this by age 25 when he was given the title of GM? He didn't start training till age 6. that means he mastered 37.5 forms a year. Thats 600 forms devided by the number of years he had trained (which is 16) and thats 37.5

Unbelievable. He must be like rainman. No human can master that many forms unless he has supernatural powers.

I'm not saying any of that. I don't know how many forms he learned, how many forms he "mastered" or when he did either. All I know is the material and the training I've been taught so far, and that's good enough for me.

[Mei Hua]

So MKRiii's buddy calls SD LARPers, all the while MKRiii was getting conditioning ideas from Shaw Brothers' movies?

I love this thread!


Who said anything about us being buddies?

I will call a McDojo on their BS when I see it.


And all the related aspects of Shaolin Do Karate scream BS, LARPing and McDojo; their training as seen by myself and others, by their demonstrated forms, by the fact it's been proven they've stolen styles and forms from other MA styles and claimed them as their own, often creating new names for them in the process:rolleyes:
The fact they claim to be Shaolin Do which combines Japanese and Chinese then they claim to be Karate, again doing the same, then they wear Karate uniforms and belts, which again screams BS.
The way they keep pressuring their students to start new levels/styles at higher costs to make them better martial artists and keep the progression going at ever higher pay structures.
The way their GM claimed a GMship at a young age when no one else has ever achieved such a level in such a short time.


Seems like the majority of people on this forum are in love with subpar, crappy martial arts and crappy training, this is often talked about on all the other forums, y'all should try training for real and get out of your kung fu movie wet dreams

[Flaca]

So I have a questio