Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
I have tons of demos on tape if I knew how to convert them....any help? I have a web cam with a RCA plug that lets me run my camcorder to the comp. Is that connection fast enough or do i need a firewire card? If it is USB 2.0, it will work but you'll probably drop some frames here and there. Firewire is best.

I'm not sure how you'd hook an RCA plug into the computer? Do you have video In/Out ports or something?

[Judge Pen]

GT, PM sent.

[Golden Tiger]

No, i have an intel pro cam that has a RCA video port on it. It is then connected by USB 1 (too old for 2.0).

I might go ahead and get a fire wire card. they are pretty cheap these days.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
No, i have an intel pro cam that has a RCA video port on it. It is then connected by USB 1 (too old for 2.0).

I might go ahead and get a fire wire card. they are pretty cheap these days. USB 1 would not be good. :D

I got a firewire card off amazon for like $25 a year or two ago. The firewire cables are expensive, though. They usually don't come with the card.

[Jhapa]

I have a question for SD guys. i have noticed that some SD schools have changed there uniforms, now is this OKd by GM the or they just changed it on their own and how is affecting the relationship with GM the.

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
That is the exact form that we do. It is either the 3rd or 4th book (road).

3rd Road...

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Wow, that is the first time I have seen another school doing the same form.

Ummm...
Yang Taiji 64 == Cheng Man Ching's 37 ...
Chen 83 == Chen Fa ke's Xin Jia Lao Jia ....
Bagua == Jiang Rong Qiao's Mother Palm Set ...
Combined Form == Taiji 24...
Yang Mantis == Bung Bo ...
Tiger Crane == Hung Ga 4 Pillar Set ...

for examples ... :D


Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Wonder where they picked it up?

or vice versa... :eek:

Originally posted by Golden Tiger

I have tons of demos on tape if I knew how to convert them....any help? I have a web cam with a RCA plug that lets me run my camcorder to the comp. Is that connection fast enough or do i need a firewire card?

Firewire... definately firewire. If your camcorder is new enough, it should have a firewire jack on it. Buy a combo firewire/USB 2 card for your computer & have at it. With decent editing software & firewire, you should maintain almost 100% of your video frames.

[Golden Tiger]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sean_stonehart
3rd Road...



Ummm...
Yang Taiji 64 == Cheng Man Ching's 37 ...
Chen 83 == Chen Fa ke's Xin Jia Lao Jia ....
Bagua == Jiang Rong Qiao's Mother Palm Set ...
Combined Form == Taiji 24...
Yang Mantis == Bung Bo ...
Tiger Crane == Hung Ga 4 Pillar Set ...

Interesting. As for the vise versa, you never know I guess. I do know that the list above is quiet varried and one would think that you would have to visit many places to see it or even learn it. And that would take a lot of time. And a lot of this stuff was first taught in the early 70's and 80's. And he didn't travel a lot back then. hmmmm.....

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by Jhapa
I have a question for SD guys. i have noticed that some SD schools have changed there uniforms, now is this OKd by GM the or they just changed it on their own and how is affecting the relationship with GM the.


Life is good...... Diversity is the spice of life. nuff said

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Jhapa
I have a question for SD guys. i have noticed that some SD schools have changed there uniforms, now is this OKd by GM the or they just changed it on their own and how is affecting the relationship with GM the.

Master Garry Mullins changed his uniforms about 4 years ago with Master Sin's permission. It apparently hasn't affected the relationship. . . . he still comes to our schools, gives tests and seminars, and he recently promoted Master Garry Mullins to 8th degree. Yeah, I think we are still in good with Grand Master The'.

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
And a lot of this stuff was first taught in the early 70's and 80's. And he didn't travel a lot back then. hmmmm.....

I have to take your word for it there, GT. I didn't start training until 1989.

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Life is good...... Diversity is the spice of life. nuff said

I agree 100%.

[shen ku]

JP i am also a 3rd my teacher trained with yours alot in lexington and speeks very highly of him. I have seen him perform many times and was never let down. the uniform issue,well, i think there were more problems between the masters over that one than any with master sin. (you know egos are always an issue in anything that humans do) i wear a gi, its what i was taught?? what you wear looks great and i am sure feels great. hay we could all switch to flanal shirts and hiphop pants (but it would be hard to kick with your pants around your knees ha ha ha ) my only thing with uniforms is it kind of devids us, and i would like to see all the masters get past that and share more with each other. I know that your group and atlanta and master nance work really well together. i would love to see more of that!!
i talk with master nance every so often i he said that if i visited one of these schools that it would be ok to wear my gi. i feel i should wear a frogbutton uniform what is your opinion?

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by shen ku
JP i am also a 3rd my teacher trained with yours alot in lexington and speeks very highly of him. I have seen him perform many times and was never let down. the uniform issue,well, i think there were more problems between the masters over that one than any with master sin. (you know egos are always an issue in anything that humans do) i wear a gi, its what i was taught?? what you wear looks great and i am sure feels great. hay we could all switch to flanal shirts and hiphop pants (but it would be hard to kick with your pants around your knees ha ha ha ) my only thing with uniforms is it kind of devids us, and i would like to see all the masters get past that and share more with each other. I know that your group and atlanta and master nance work really well together. i would love to see more of that!!
i talk with master nance every so often i he said that if i visited one of these schools that it would be ok to wear my gi. i feel i should wear a frogbutton uniform what is your opinion?

Yeah, Master Nance is cool. I enjoyed his KAT seminar in May.

As for the uniforms, just check with the teacher. If I'm visiting a school that wears a gi, I'll dig out my old gi. When in Rome. . . , but you shouldn't have to buy a new top if you don't already have one.

And they are comfortable. . . .

[shen ku]

i took master nance's kat seminar at his school last july and i enjoyed it (i got to play around with him one on one alot ) i disagreed with him on a few things and he was like "thats great, your thinking for yourself" . me and him became joking buddies when he had to pull back in a bus window in tabit ( i was sick ) . so i feel pretty good talking with him ,
i have a few frogbutton uniforms just was not forsure if the ones you wear where different than normal?

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by shen ku
i me and him became joking buddies when he had to pull back in a bus window in tabit ( i was sick ) .

Chris??

[Brad]

Interesting. As for the vise versa, you never know I guess. I do know that the list above is quiet varried and one would think that you would have to visit many places to see it or even learn it. And that would take a lot of time. And a lot of this stuff was first taught in the early 70's and 80's. And he didn't travel a lot back then. hmmmm.....
A lot of this stuff has been in book form(or film) for quite awhile, just not available in English. When did you start with him, and when did you first witness people learning this stuff(or start learning it yourself)?

[Brad]

About uniforms...

For those of you SDers who are tired of the karate gis, check out http://www.jonieuniforms.com/ for some really kick @ss training uniforms. My friends can do all their tricks(jump kicks into splits, etc.) in those things, no problem, but they still have the "traditional" look. Super comfy just wearing around the house too.

[Brad]

I'm a little tired of talking about forms... so lets talk about basics. How does basic training work in your Shaolin-Do school? Do you guys have seperate sets of basic training for different styles?

[Wharg0ul]

thanx for the link, Brad. :)

I HATE wearing a Gi. Did I stress that enough?? H.A.T.E. wearing a Gi.

[shen ku]

hay sean_stonehart, OK your good with names and so you were on the 2001 china trip , any tip on how i would know you ? did you demo and what did you do if you did?

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by shen ku
hay sean_stonehart, OK your good with names and so you were on the 2001 china trip , any tip on how i would know you ? did you demo and what did you do if you did?

Yeah... I did the performance anxiety suffered version of Pick & Play... which turns out is a *******ized version of Zhao Yai.

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Brad
About uniforms...

For those of you SDers who are tired of the karate gis, check out http://www.jonieuniforms.com/ for some really kick @ss training uniforms. My friends can do all their tricks(jump kicks into splits, etc.) in those things, no problem, but they still have the "traditional" look. Super comfy just wearing around the house too.

Jonie's goods are the best!!! Super comfy to wear, easy to get, custom made (each piece) & will last a while. Plus if you want something special & it's pretty close to what she already has in her catalog, there's no upcharging.

There is however a standing to return policy for any uniforms... so make sure that's what you want before you order it.

I recommend Jonie for any CMA uniform needs...

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by Brad
A lot of this stuff has been in book form(or film) for quite awhile, just not available in English. When did you start with him, and when did you first witness people learning this stuff(or start learning it yourself)?

I started in 1976.

As for when the stuff was taught, I can't recall specific dates but I will do my best. Perhaps BM2 can help with some of the dates. My notes (4 6-in binders) don't list them.

Everything up to black belt (pre-15 new material) was out by the mid 70's. This includes Tai Chi (Yang 64), Classical Pa Kua, Tang Lang Chein and Hsing-I and I Chin Ching.

15 new material (3 White Cranes, 3 Birds, 5 directional palm, Connecting Fist, 2 Bo forms, Kwan Dao) came out early 80's. Most of them had been taught to Master's Leonard and Smith long before that. He refered to them by #'s and didn't give them names til they were released to everyone else.

Drunk Stuff- Early to mid 80's. Some of this was taught out by Master Hiang. (Begger, Crazy, Broad sword, 2-edge and so on)

Hua's (Roads 1-4) Not exactly sure when they were first taught but I got them mid 80's. (At the Sports Center on the converted Raquetball courts...flying drop kick on hardwood.....ouch)

Drunken Imortals- Late 80's although they must have been taught earlier to M. Leonard and Smith because I have an issue of BB mag. with them in it.

Spears- Mid 80's. Parking lot of the Sports Center.

Chain whip 7 and 9, Fire whip (rope dart), Mantis forms, Monkeys- early to mid 80's by Master Hiang.


Hua Chien, More of the Immortals, Drunken Spear, 2nd level Broad Sword...etc came around in 89-92 ish.

Meditation I ( Hou tien Chi, Shin Tien Chi, 5 animal Play, Pathways etc) mid 70's to early 80's



Again, all dates or time frames are approximate. I tried to remember where the material was taught (Buel Armory, Southland, Sports Center, current gym, Pre-Post brother split, Pre- post move to Cali).

[shen ku]

ya this hole time i thought that was you! i beleive we set next to each other on the plane ride back over the ocean? i remember that you talked alot about other arts then? i do hope that SD did give you something to walk away from us with (besides for what ever all the issues are or were ) ? and i hope you have had good MA experinces after leaving SD. with everything you say master sin has put together from here and there, i do have a ?? i have seen a paper that was put out i believe in the early 70s that my teacher has that layed out material and it had a _ _ _ _ load on it then and alot of the ??able "new" stuff was on it ( if i remember correctly) just how do you think he was able to gather it all back then? (not trying to be smart, just really wondering what your ideas were on that?)

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by Brad
I'm a little tired of talking about forms... so lets talk about basics. How does basic training work in your Shaolin-Do school? Do you guys have seperate sets of basic training for different styles?

Back in the day, we always had a month or two of conditioning classes prior to learning the new form. Depending on the emphasis of the form, we would work on what was needed to be able to do it (stretching, weight vest training, cardio, etc). When a form was taught, Master Sin always gave out hand written notes that had the background, each posture in chinese, english and character.

Some examples:

Hua- about 3 months of stretching, weight training, TONS of kicks.

Drunken Immortals: flexibility training, gymnastics.

Spears: weeks of the basic moves with ankle weights on the end of the spear.

Unfortunately, the focus has shifted away from th pre-training and more on getting the material re-taught so that it won't be lost. Then with the new stuff, Master Sin first tried to include the conditioning part into the seminars but found that most of the "students" would drop before he even started teaching the form. Personally, I miss the days of having to prove that you could do the form before you got to see it but thats just me (and the fact that I am too old and worn out to do most of it).

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by shen ku
ya this hole time i thought that was you! i beleive we set next to each other on the plane ride back over the ocean? i remember that you talked alot about other arts then? i do hope that SD did give you something to walk away from us with (besides for what ever all the issues are or were ) ? and i hope you have had good MA experinces after leaving SD. with everything you say master sin has put together from here and there, i do have a ?? i have seen a paper that was put out i believe in the early 70s that my teacher has that layed out material and it had a _ _ _ _ load on it then and alot of the ??able "new" stuff was on it ( if i remember correctly) just how do you think he was able to gather it all back then? (not trying to be smart, just really wondering what your ideas were on that?)

Yeah we sat next to each other on the way back... You were one the people I enjoyed hanging with & meeting from Ky. Too bad about the trip back from the mountains that day. I remember seeing you when we got to the hotel & you not looking so good.

I did get some good things from SD. No denying that & no arguements. But I also got a bad taste in my mouth for lots of things & people because of it too.

As far as where the brothers got the stuff from... who can say? I've got my own ideas & assumptions, but they're just that & won't ever be anything more than that. But in looking & researching... talking to & meeting with people from China & on the Net... there's too many question marks about what's going on with SD & where all of the stuff comes from.

There are too many missing pieces & holes in the training regimines & pieces that aren't understood in application for my comfort level. Sure stuff can always be made up, but if the basics of a thing aren't understood properly, how can they be taught properly with the foundation application(s)?

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by sean_stonehart
Yeah... I did the performance anxiety suffered version of Pick & Play... which turns out is a *******ized version of Zhao Yai.

So, I have to ask. What leads you to the conclusion that Pick and Play is a *******ized version of Zhao Yai (could you translate the name? my pinyin sucks).

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
So, I have to ask. What leads you to the conclusion that Pick and Play is a *******ized version of Zhao Yai (could you translate the name? my pinyin sucks).

Well the fact that another former SDer that had a hankering for Mantis sent a clip of himself doing to a guy in Taiwan that practices Mantis exclusively & the guy said it was a 4 road version of Zhao Yai (or maybe Zhai Yao... I forgot) instead of the 3 he was familiar with.

The guy in Taiwan sent a clip of another guy doing what he was familiar with & there it was. Again, it wasn't exactly the same as SD's version, but the SD version superficially resembled it.

I'll send a couple of PM's to clarify & I'll get back to you with the specific info.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Back in the day, we always had a month or two of conditioning classes prior to learning the new form. Depending on the emphasis of the form, we would work on what was needed to be able to do it (stretching, weight vest training, cardio, etc). When a form was taught, Master Sin always gave out hand written notes that had the background, each posture in chinese, english and character.

***

Unfortunately, the focus has shifted away from th pre-training and more on getting the material re-taught so that it won't be lost. Then with the new stuff, Master Sin first tried to include the conditioning part into the seminars but found that most of the "students" would drop before he even started teaching the form. Personally, I miss the days of having to prove that you could do the form before you got to see it but thats just me (and the fact that I am too old and worn out to do most of it).

My teacher is trying to get back to this. Most of the time, the pre-training is stuck in our drilling/conditioning part of class and most students dont' realize that they are actually training new skills for the forms they are about to learn. I worked on certain kicks, stances, and body-weight excercises for about a month before I got to the meat of my first hua form.

Accoring to Master Mullins, he worked on dao cuts for a couple of months before he learned the actual form. Now students get the form in, what 3 weeks?

[BM2]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Golden Tiger
[B]I started in 1976.

15 new material (3 White Cranes, 3 Birds, 5 directional palm, Connecting Fist, 2 Bo forms, Kwan Dao) came out in 1983. The reason I was told by my instructor was to increase the time it took for BB.

Drunken Imortals-
This was 1985 after months of mandatory 4 hour outside conditioning including the winter without coats but I put on thermal underwear. 8-12 every Sunday morning. But we were out there exercising and Master Sin just had on a thin gi without a coat. He made me feel colder just looking at him. I suspect most of us had thermals on. Yeah, I'm a whimp.

Master Hiang left late 1984.

[lxtruong]

Originally posted by Wharg0ul
thanx for the link, Brad. :)

I HATE wearing a Gi. Did I stress that enough?? H.A.T.E. wearing a Gi.

I LOVE wearing a Gi. :) So I guess we balance out. Although I do hate how my belt comes undone ever 2nd or 3rd kata. Those Juka (Dragon) belts are crazy stiff. I've been sweating in mine for 2 years now and it still won't stay tied for an entire class! Am I asking for too much!?!?

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
So, I have to ask. What leads you to the conclusion that Pick and Play is a *******ized version of Zhao Yai (could you translate the name? my pinyin sucks).

GT... PMs were sent. Information is forthcoming later today.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by lxtruong
I LOVE wearing a Gi. :) So I guess we balance out. Although I do hate how my belt comes undone ever 2nd or 3rd kata. Those Juka (Dragon) belts are crazy stiff. I've been sweating in mine for 2 years now and it still won't stay tied for an entire class! Am I asking for too much!?!?

Switch to a sash. Sashes are cool. :cool:

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by BM2
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Golden Tiger
[B]I started in 1976.

15 new material (3 White Cranes, 3 Birds, 5 directional palm, Connecting Fist, 2 Bo forms, Kwan Dao) came out in 1983. The reason I was told by my instructor was to increase the time it took for BB.

Drunken Imortals-
This was 1985 after months of mandatory 4 hour outside conditioning including the winter without coats but I put on thermal underwear. 8-12 every Sunday morning. But we were out there exercising and Master Sin just had on a thin gi without a coat. He made me feel colder just looking at him. I suspect most of us had thermals on. Yeah, I'm a whimp.

Master Hiang left late 1984.

Looks like my time frames were pretty close then.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by BM2
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Golden Tiger
[B]15 new material (3 White Cranes, 3 Birds, 5 directional palm, Connecting Fist, 2 Bo forms, Kwan Dao) came out in 1983. The reason I was told by my instructor was to increase the time it took for BB.


Too bad it hasn't done this. Now you get 15 new forms crammed in there instead of taking the time to learn each completely. I long for the days of less material.

[Golden Tiger]

I was just sitting here thinking about all the forms, notes, etc. that I have gotten over the years and to me, I just don't see a way that back then, he could have had the time or ability to "borrow" all the things that I have learned from him. Possible? yes. Probable? no Plus, there was never a real need for him to. For the longest time, he didn't teach anything and no one was really *****ing about it. We did what we knew and then would spar the rest of the time.

Also, as I pointed out, most of this material came out from 68-mid 80's. So while it is easy to track down a style or a form today with the web and such, back then, in the middle of nowhere (Lexington), I just don't think that it would have been that easy.

After seeing the clip yesterday of the Hua that the other school was doing, it made me wonder... If M. Sin "borrowed" that form, he would have had to find this school or someone in their lineage back in the early 80's. He then would have had to learn all 4 roads, get all the names of the postures (I think my notes are about 20 pages worth) learn all the background then be able to teach it. Then if that wasn't enough, do that for the rest of the 100 plus forms that I learned from him.

Today, thanks to Google, you might be able to do it...maybe but that indepth, I kinda doubt it. But again, when most of this stuff was first taught, we are talking the 70's and 80's here.

So, if you think the forms are *****ized, plagurized or midasized....I doubt that you will ever be convinced differently. I personally just don't see how it could have been done.

[Judge Pen]

Nice post, GT. Having you and BM2 around gives us a unique window into what SD was 25 years ago. Seeing how things were taught back then vs now etc.

I've seen our version vs other versions of several forms now. The main problem I see isn't the origins of the material, but the quality of instruction. Even good instructors don't take the time to teach all the nuances to all the forms we have. Background (not lineage and history per so, just the origin of the form and its effecacy) drills, applications, and sparring work from the form. Not that this is never done, but it seems it's getting more and more rare. Hence much of the criticism is warranted.

Brad: You mentioned technique. I have three questions regarding kicking? (1) how many kung fu styles include a side thrust kick (striking target is the heel of the foot and not the side edge of the foot)? (2) how many non-kung fu styles kick their hand with certain crecent and front kicks? (3) How many non-kung fu styles use a hit-kick (puncing and kicking at the same time; usually opposite hand and foot)?

[sean_stonehart]

Books.... ???

[Brad]

I've seen our version vs other versions of several forms now. The main problem I see isn't the origins of the material, but the quality of instruction. Even good instructors don't take the time to teach all the nuances to all the forms we have. Background (not lineage and history per so, just the origin of the form and its effecacy) drills, applications, and sparring work from the form. Not that this is never done, but it seems it's getting more and more rare. Hence much of the criticism is warranted.

Honestly, I don't see much difference when watching guys that have been around for years(like your master Mullins) and the people who still have videos up who're allways criticized so much. Maybe I missed something from the video, in which case I'd like to see the guy in person sometime(my aunt & uncle just moved to Nashville, so that could be a real possibility!).

Brad: You mentioned technique. I have three questions regarding kicking? (1) how many kung fu styles include a side thrust kick (striking target is the heel of the foot and not the side edge of the foot)? (2) how many non-kung fu styles kick their hand with certain crecent and front kicks? (3) How many non-kung fu styles use a hit-kick (puncing and kicking at the same time; usually opposite hand and foot)?
For one thing, if he were stealing forms from books, film, or other means, I'd imagine he'd pick up these obvious parts too. My first martial arts teacher picked up on all this too, and he turned out to be an even bigger fraud than Sin The will ever be :P I doubt we'll ever know the true origins of how he got his material though. As for how easy things were to obtain 25-30 years ago, I really can't say as I wasn't born until '79 ;) I asked for personal experience(rather than what people told you) just to get a clearer idea of what it really would've been like back then. I honestly don't trust some of these senior teachers after hearing some things from them...

Just thinking of something... if we really want to talk about Sin The's background, wouldn't the most logical place to start be his own book?

[lxtruong]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
Switch to a sash. Sashes are cool. :cool:

No offense, but I'll use rope and twine to tie closed my gi before I ever use a sash.

[BM2]

JP, heard that your instructor had taped Master Sin's colleague's group performing in Indonesia. Have you seen what they were wearing? From what I heard they did white crane, dao and Chen family fan. I'd love to have a copy of that.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by sean_stonehart
Books.... ???

I assume this is in reference to my post.


Possible but not probable (IMO). You would have to memorize 100-ish books, word for word, be able to recite then in two languages, remember each picture and be able to recall them, in and out of order, be able to come up with applications and be able to teach it to someone else. That is just hard for me to imagine.

It would be like me picking up a calculus book, going thru the examples, being able to do the problems, being able to apply those examples to real life situations then being able to teach everything in the book from memory. Then picking up a anatomy book......

As aposed to going to college and spending a lot of time with an instructor and leaning it


Possible ........not saying it can't be done.....

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
I assume this is in reference to my post.


Possible but not probable (IMO). You would have to memorize 100-ish books, word for word, be able to recite then in two languages, remember each picture and be able to recall them, in and out of order, be able to come up with applications and be able to teach it to someone else. That is just hard for me to imagine.

It would be like me picking up a calculus book, going thru the examples, being able to do the problems, being able to apply those examples to real life situations then being able to teach everything in the book from memory. Then picking up a anatomy book......

As aposed to going to college and spending a lot of time with an instructor and leaning it


Possible ........not saying it can't be done..... Yeah, I guess it would almost be like learning 900 forms. :eek:

Besides, everyone loooooooooooves to talk about Sin The's vast pile of notes. Perhaps he wrote everything down from the books, and goes back to his notes when he decides to teach it. You don't have to memorize it right away if you aren't going to teach it until 10 years later...

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by Brad
Just thinking of something... if we really want to talk about Sin The's background, wouldn't the most logical place to start be his own book?

Rumor has it he's working on a movie....maybe that will clear some things up? ;)

[Brad]

You would have to memorize 100-ish books, word for word, be able to recite then in two languages, remember each picture and be able to recall them, in and out of order, be able to come up with applications and be able to teach it to someone else. That is just hard for me to imagine.
Why in the world would he have to learn them word for word and recite in two languages? Your really not making a lot of sense. It takes me about 30 minutes to memorize a medium length form. I wouldn't know all the little details, or look like masters of the style when performing, but it's surprisingly easy... and you don't need to even remember every single move... it's not like the people he's teaching are masters of this stuff before they start with him.

[Brad]

Rumor has it he's working on a movie....maybe that will clear some things up?
I don't think it's going to happen... that rumor seems pretty old :P

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Rumor has it he's working on a movie....maybe that will clear some things up? ;)
HAHAHAHAHAH.

You mean the movie where plays Ie Ching Men? From what I understand, he's been trying to get that made for like 15 years. It'll never happen. And if it does, it'll be about as good as TC-2000.

Of course, you'll hear SD people say "China gave him more money to make it than they gave Crouching Tiger..." and stupid retard nonsense like that.

That's the kind of shiznit that bugs me. All the misinformation you guys toss around between each other. It's a hoot. You can't even get they story straight INSIDE the organization.

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by lxtruong
No offense, but I'll use rope and twine to tie closed my gi before I ever use a sash.

Don't knock it til you try it... besides my sash never comes untied no matter how hard I go.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

AND it holds your guts in place for those particularly difficult training sessions (unlike a belt, rope or twine).

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by sean_stonehart
Don't knock it til you try it... besides my sash never comes untied no matter how hard I go.

Maybe you aren't going hard enough......j/k


Brad
Why in the world would he have to learn them word for word and recite in two languages?

When he teaches a form, he calles out the posture as he does it. So in essence, he is repeating anywhere from 30 to 128 postures verbatim, starting and stopping, as he goes. Thats usually about 4 pages worth.


It takes me about 30 minutes to memorize a medium length form. I wouldn't know all the little details, or look like masters of the style when performing, but it's surprisingly easy..[/B]

I am not sure what you consider to be medium but for me (and most that I have taught) the mind can handle (ie. learn, not memorize) about 7 to 10 items at a time.


But anyway, all this is just my opinion. To each their own....

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by Hua Lin Laoshi
AND it holds your guts in place for those particularly difficult training sessions (unlike a belt, rope or twine).


uhhh..thats called a corset.....


Belt...Sash...who cares?

And MK, at the big movie premier, I will have a ticket waiting for you. Hell, I might even spring for a large butter tub...extra butter

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Maybe you aren't going hard enough......j/k



Eh ... you ain't the first one to accuse me of that at times ... ;)

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
uhhh..thats called a corset..... More like a kidney belt. That's what a sash is for, afterall.

And MK, at the big movie premier, I will have a ticket waiting for you. Hell, I might even spring for a large butter tub...extra butterWell, considering how crappy the movie will be, it will probably premiere in a seedy theatre in some porn district. In which case, I wouldn't order "extra butter" if I were you.

[lxtruong]

Originally posted by Hua Lin Laoshi
AND it holds your guts in place for those particularly difficult training sessions (unlike a belt, rope or twine).

Ok this is one thing I never understood. Now suppose you're doing some type of super-hard training where your in immenient danger of your guts "spilling out". How in the world is one piece of cloth (not even all that tightly tied) going to prevent this? Now even supposing that a sash can automagically keep your guts from falling out, why wouldn't a belt? They're tied at about the same place...

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by BM2
JP, heard that your instructor had taped Master Sin's colleague's group performing in Indonesia. Have you seen what they were wearing? From what I heard they did white crane, dao and Chen family fan. I'd love to have a copy of that.

I've never heard him reference a tape of this material. He mentions the Drunken Immortal master the most. I'll ask my teacher about what the colleagues were wearing and if they have it taped. It would be real interesting.

Originally posted by Brad
I'd like to see the guy in person sometime(my aunt & uncle just moved to Nashville, so that could be a real possibility!).

You're welcome to be my guest anytime. He doesn't often do demos on demand, but his tournament is in October or November and you can watch that if you want to make the trip. His class is about 4 hours away from Nashville. I live about 3 hours away from Nashville.

Originally posted by lxtruong
No offense, but I'll use rope and twine to tie closed my gi before I ever use a sash.

To each their own I guess. I didn't mind wearing a gi and a belt. I don't mind wearing a shas and frog buttons. Heck, I practice, more often than not, in jeans, shoes, and a T-shirt. If I can't move in street clothes, there's not much use practicing the technique.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lxtruong
Ok this is one thing I never understood. Now suppose you're doing some type of super-hard training where your in immenient danger of your guts "spilling out". How in the world is one piece of cloth (not even all that tightly tied) going to prevent this? Now even supposing that a sash can automagically keep your guts from falling out, why wouldn't a belt? They're tied at about the same place... Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt.

Thank-you kung-fu Rainman! :)

[sean_stonehart]

Belt = 1 inch in width & used to keep kimono closed in Japan & Okinawa. Support was handled by interior garments much like a sash

Sash = varying widths & lengths. In old school pics were wrapped from near bottom of rib cage to upper pelvis/lower adbomen... in other words...

Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt. Kidney belt.

[lxtruong]

Ok, I'm certainly not knowledgable on the subject of kidney belts. All google has been able to inform me is that a lot of motorcross riders wear them. How tight are these things supposed to be. I see that most of them are made of some type of elastic/leather material. How much support do they have to give?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lxtruong
Ok, I'm certainly not knowledgable on the subject of kidney belts. All google has been able to inform me is that a lot of motorcross riders wear them. How tight are these things supposed to be. I see that most of them are made of some type of elastic/leather material. How much support do they have to give? And why do motocross riders wear them, perchance? Because they keep your internal organs from jiggling around, which can cause some serious damage.** Especially to the kidneys.

You tie it tight, but not so tight you can't breathe. It's not a corsett. It's more like a knee-brace for your belly.


























**Your external organ may still jiggle.

[Golden Tiger]

I used to wear one when I raced MX years ago and yes, they kinda keep everything packed nice and tight but mainly they protect the back and kidneys (ie. Kidney Belt) from the compression and in the event of a wreck.

I do wonder what kind of training you are doing to need that kind of protection? I mean I have heard of just about every injury possible concerning MA training but I am yet to hear "got to sit this one out, guts busting out from last nights class, kidneys dropped like 'roids cause they weren't bound good and tight".:rolleyes:

The sashes look all kung fu and stuff, thats cool......

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
I used to wear one when I raced MX years ago and yes, they kinda keep everything packed nice and tight but mainly they protect the back and kidneys (ie. Kidney Belt) from the compression and in the event of a wreck.

I do wonder what kind of training you are doing to need that kind of protection? I mean I have heard of just about every injury possible concerning MA training but I am yet to hear "got to sit this one out, guts busting out from last nights class, kidneys dropped like 'roids cause they weren't bound good and tight".:rolleyes:

The sashes look all kung fu and stuff, thats cool......

Good Old Fashion Traditional Southern Chinese Martial Arts... ;)

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by MasterKiller

You tie it tight, but not so tight you can't breathe. It's not a corsett.It's more like a knee-brace for your belly.

More like a girdle huh.......:D

( I swear, I crack myself up sometimes.....)


PS. Looking at my belly these days, I might be switching to the sash for cosmetic reasons.......

[MasterKiller]

Long Fist is like Moto-X without the bike. Think of your forms as whoop-de-doos.

[lxtruong]

You guys jump 40 ft. up in the air while doing Long Fist! Whoa!

[Starchaser107]

osu!
that was so funny
osu!:rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lxtruong
You guys jump 40 ft. up in the air while doing Long Fist! Whoa! Um....most whoop-de-doos aren't that high. They are usually a long, continuous row of speed bumps that bounce you around.

Anyway, the idea, right or wrong, is that the sash prevents possible damage to your internal organs from the high impact routines associated with normal kung fu practice.

And for the record, I always wear mine when I practice and I've never ruptured a kidney or a spleen. ;)

[lxtruong]

Ha. Forgive my smartassitude. I know nothing of Moto-X. :)

Anyway, I think I'll stick with the belt/sash serving the purpose of keeping your shirt from flapping around and not from saving your innards from jumping out. I don't know of any spleen ruptures and I figure that those with 20+ years experience would have some horror stories to tell if there were. Maybe they do iron spleen training when I'm not looking though.

[Judge Pen]

The way I see most sashes being used today, it's just cosmetic. I have a back brace velcro contraption that I wear if I strain my back that would work better. But, I have to agree with GT, you see lots of sports, like Basketball, cross country, football, gymnastics, etc. that don't wear any "internal organ" support and you don't generally hear of internal injury. Never did Moto-X though.

[MasterKiller]

Maybe that's why the average career of a professional athlete is 3 years.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Maybe that's why the average career of a professional athlete is 3 years.

I don't think their careers are cut short for kidney problems.

[MasterKiller]

Maybe internal injuries manifest in funny ways.

For example, I have a tiny hole in my diagphragm, and sometimes a little section of my stomach pops through it. It's called a hietal (sp?) hernia.

You know how it manifests? I can't move my right shoulder without extreme pain. That would surely inhibit a pro athelete. If it persists long enough, it might even end their career.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller

Anyway, I'm just pulling stuff outta my @ss...

:D

[MasterKiller]

Zoiks! You're fast.

[Judge Pen]

My forum fu is strong today.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there some rudimentary weight training in the old days? Stone locks and such?

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Maybe that's why the average career of a professional athlete is 3 years.

3.3.. but who is counting....

Yeah, but look at their life spans...

[shen ku]

ha been off a little while , master sins brother did come back for a little while maybe around 86-88 and then split again. hay to some of the older SDers on here my teacher also talks about the background training and the months before getting to the form and how it was used. He really misses those days he has been around from ?about 71? he tryies to teach it in a very similar manner ( you train you tell you cant breath or walk and then ok lets start ha ha )
i was at the first mantis seminar that master sin did, it was crazy, so much stuff so little time
JP i remember seeing your teacher, he was eating it all up and asking for more. On the on peace of background training he got had it down and was looking at his son (mike, is he the oldest?) "like don't you have it yet!!!!" it was great

on ya belt/sash who cares it shouldn't be about what hold your guts in , your shirt closed, or your pants up just learn and enjoy

[shen ku]

sean_stonehart, can i ask about the bad tast that you said you were left with? i could only imagine the people part &%*#@$holes are everywhere nowadays. I would also like to know did you enjoy the trip? there were someparts i could have done with out ?? whos grave with nothing inside, who sleeped here and oh ya NO ONE WAS SHOOT IN THIS SQUARE!! oh ya and the bus in tebit

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by shen ku
sean_stonehart, can i ask about the bad tast that you said you were left with? i could only imagine the people part &%*#@$holes are everywhere nowadays. I would also like to know did you enjoy the trip? there were someparts i could have done with out ?? whos grave with nothing inside, who sleeped here and oh ya NO ONE WAS SHOOT IN THIS SQUARE!! oh ya and the bus in tebit

I think I'll hold on to who left the bad taste. No reason to stir unnecessary personal feelings up. Just suffice it to say I haven't lost sleep over any of them & doubt seriously I ever will.

The trip was fun. I wish there was more time with people rather than always go go go , but hey... it wasn't so bad. I'll be back soon enough.

The bus ride in Tibet... you were in back throwing up, me & several other were up front threatening the bus driver... ;) I haven't been up hills like that again but I did get up into the Nantahalia Nat'l Forest at the Ga/NC border & it kinda reminded me of it... minus the road work truck barrelling down on us in blind corners on single lane roads...

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by shen ku
ha been off a little while , master sins brother did come back for a little while maybe around 86-88 and then split again. hay to some of the older SDers on here my teacher also talks about the background training and the months before getting to the form and how it was used. He really misses those days he has been around from ?about 71? he tryies to teach it in a very similar manner ( you train you tell you cant breath or walk and then ok lets start ha ha )
i was at the first mantis seminar that master sin did, it was crazy, so much stuff so little time
JP i remember seeing your teacher, he was eating it all up and asking for more. On the on peace of background training he got had it down and was looking at his son (mike, is he the oldest?) "like don't you have it yet!!!!" it was great

on ya belt/sash who cares it shouldn't be about what hold your guts in , your shirt closed, or your pants up just learn and enjoy

Actually Mike is my personal teacher. I have class with Master Garry once or twice a month. I'm also glad to hear you mention the "reunion" of the brothers. That detail gets lost sometimes.

[Brad]

None of my classmates, coaches, or myself have ever had any kidney or similar internal injurey from not wearing a sash. None of the modern wushu athletes in China wear sashes either(except as deceration). I'm with Hua Lin Laoshi, that if they did have a practical purpose(other than holding pants up), it would've been more for wieghtlifting.

[BM2]

And MK, at the big movie premier, I will have a ticket waiting for you. Hell, I might even spring for a large butter tub...extra butter

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Well, considering how crappy the movie will be, it will probably premiere in a seedy theatre in some porn district. In which case, I wouldn't order "extra butter" if I were you. [/B]

MK, it sounded to me as you are going to be his date and he is offering to buy the butter, extra butter ...maybe to butter you up:eek: :o :D ;)

[Golden Tiger]

Note to self: Kick BM2's a$$.....

[shen ku]

on the movie. i was told this month that it is now scheduled to start shoting in june of this year, also i have been told , for a while now, that the script has changed to one that master sin and his daughter wrote, don't know much about the details just that it was loosely based around some of the stories ????

[shen ku]

JP i have been watching mike in tournaments since he was 16 and i have always liked his attitude. i hope his teaching matchs that, you should be having alot of fun

[Golden Tiger]

Hey shen ku,

Who's your instructor? Sounds like he has been around a long time, I might know him.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by shen ku
JP i have been watching mike in tournaments since he was 16 and i have always liked his attitude. i hope his teaching matchs that, you should be having alot of fun

Mike's an excellent teacher. I probably wouldn't be training in SD if I hadn't ran into him in Knoxville.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by shen ku
on the movie. i was told this month that it is now scheduled to start shoting in june of this year, also i have been told , for a while now, that the script has changed to one that master sin and his daughter wrote, don't know much about the details just that it was loosely based around some of the stories ???? Keep dreaming.

LALALALALALALALALA Sin The' is the Grandmaster of all Shao-Lin LALALALALALALALLA

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Keep dreaming.

LALALALALALALALALA Sin The' is the Grandmaster of all Shao-Lin LALALALALALALALLA


oh ye of little faith.....

[BM2]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Note to self: Kick BM2's a$$.....

Man I am as surprised as anyone to see what MK wrote using my account! How did he access it? I am only happy to see by your reply that you could tell it was he who really wrote it and your just playing along!
Glad to clear that up!
Ummm... you forgot to use smiles on that post to let everyone else know that you were only kidding... You know ummm....you could maybe post something...you know for anyone else....that you are only kidding. :(

[Golden Tiger]

:mad: .....how's that?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
oh ye of little faith..... Well, like I said, on the off chance it does get made, it will be about as good as TC 2000.

If it were such a big deal, Premeire would have covered it already. And they didn't.

Can Sin The' pronounce "Straight to DVD"? If not, you better start teaching him how.

BTW, are they gonna CGI the scene where he swims with pecs, or is he gonna do his own stunts? :rolleyes:

[Golden Tiger]

Where did the "swin with pec's" come from?

And if they do get a stunt person for that scene, I suggest Eva Longoria*.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Where did the "swin with pec's" come from? Just another one of the stupid, retard things you hear from the SD camp. Sin The's pecs are so developed, he can apparently swim with them. Or at least he could when he was young.

Who knows where this stuff comes from? I think some of your instructors are so in love with Sin The' that they make this stuff up and pass it along to their students. I've seen it too much, from too many different n00bs to think it was just some overzealous kid. They are hearing it from someone.

And when you 'official' story has just as much retard nonsense, anyway, I figure it's coming from pretty high up.

How many times have we had to school n00bs about the steele here...? And you should hear the variations. Once we squelched the ol' Shaolin built a monument to The' because of his contribution to Shaolin retard nonsense, the story evolved. On the old Mullins forum, you know, the one that wasn't secret-squirrel fortified, someone said that the temple was going to donate the steele, but since the Soards wanted the finest Marble possible, they had to pay for it. I mean...where did that crap come from????

Sin The' can climb a pole like snake, with no hands or feet...?

Sin The' developed psychic powers and he knows who is calling before be picks up the phone...?

It's your organization. Maybe you can step up and stop the retard stories. All they do is fan the flames.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller

Sin The' developed psychic powers and he knows who is calling before be picks up the phone...?


That's a new one on me.

Originally posted by MasterKiller

It's your organization. Maybe you can step up and stop the retard stories. All they do is fan the flames.


You're right, but extraodianary claims aren't exclusive to SD. Unfortunately, there's been so much conjecture for so long, I don't think these stories will ever fade.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
That's a new one on me. It's in his crap-fest book.

[Judge Pen]

Well I've heard of the 6th sense training (dark room, sand bags on rope etc.) but I hadn't read that book or heard that claim before. Did you buy the book MK?

[Golden Tiger]

Yeah, that does seem to be a problem. But I also think those stories are like any other. Each generation hears a slightly different version, embelishes the parts they forget and so forth and so on. Then you also have instructors that do the "my dad can beat your dad up" pimping in their classes to get the students fired up about what they are learning. Its not the best way but it happens.

Thing like that even happened to me. I was sparring with a class mate (huge mo fo) a long time ago, did some funky move, got lucky and he landed on his back flopping like a fish out of water. By the time I had heard what I "did" a week or two later, I had slaughtered the whole class. The great thing about it was that from then on, 80% of my matches were won before they started because of that rep.

So, I can't really blame any one for a little free advertisment.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
So, I can't really blame any one for a little free advertisment. Then you can't really blame us for thinking he's full of ****, either.

[David Jamieson]

6th sense ...hahahahaah.

sorry.

The purpose is not 6th sense in this type of training. It is the heightening of your other sense to a point where you are actually effectively using them.

awareness and complete being in the moment are often obscured as a 6th sense simply because the greater majority of us have the million noises in our heads all the time and multiple external distraction.

By shutting these down, we become hyper aware and our 5 actual senses become sharper.

example, a blind person hears better generally.

only one example, but you get the idea. If you lose your right arm, then your left arm will be better than either were before you lost the right arm.

anyway. I agree, no Martial art doesn't have it's share of bull cookies. Why should Sin Thé get pizzed on any more than anyone else that makes wild claims without proof? :p

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Kung Lek

The purpose is not 6th sense in this type of training. It is the heightening of your other sense to a point where you are actually effectively using them.

awareness and complete being in the moment are often obscured as a 6th sense simply because the greater majority of us have the million noises in our heads all the time and multiple external distraction.

By shutting these down, we become hyper aware and our 5 actual senses become sharper.

example, a blind person hears better generally.

only one example, but you get the idea. If you lose your right arm, then your left arm will be better than either were before you lost the right arm.


This is how I understood this training to work, and the name is a bit of a misnomer. Then again I've heard postures in our form translated to "duck flies out of heard" instead of flock, so much gets lost in the translation from time to time.

[BM2]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
This is how I understood this training to work, and the name is a bit of a misnomer. Then again I've heard postures in our form translated to "duck flies out of heard" instead of flock, so much gets lost in the translation from time to time.

You mean "out of herd" instead of heard? I thinking about wild geese.

Anyway, most know about Jack LaLane swiming with his hands and feet shackled, towing boats with several people in them while in the ocean bay. From what I recall, part of Master Sin's training for the snake style was that he learned to swim with his feet and hands tied. Somehow this has changed to his pecs. I thought that MK was making that up as another one of his snide remarks. Didn't know it was on somebody's webpage.

[Judge Pen]

Oops. Typo. :o Heard, herd, flock what's the difference?

[BM2]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
Oops. Typo. :o Heard, herd, flock what's the difference?

Well given enough time it will be "Heard the duck"!

[BM2]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Golden Tiger
[B]
By the time I had heard what I "did" a week or two later, I had slaughtered the whole class. QUOTE]

Uhh huh...Glad we cleared up the popcorn post ;) That no good MK. He is just another dirty Republican trickster!!! I bet he even voted for Ralph Nader for President!! Got his name of the ticket in OK, from what I herd,heard, you know what I mean.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by BM2
I thought that MK was making that up as another one of his snide remarks. Didn't know it was on somebody's webpage. I don't have to make this stuff up. You guys provide me with a plethora of material.

[David Jamieson]

MR Ducks
MR Knott
MR Sew
Cedar Wings?
Whale oil beef hooked!
MR Ducks!


(two newfs in a boat on a lake)

[MasterKiller]

Just keep your young daughters away from the Austin schools...

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35128

[lxtruong]

You sir, are full of hate.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lxtruong
You sir, are full of hate. It's a Public Service Announcement. Don't shoot the messenger.

[lxtruong]

-edit-

Forget it. I'm not even going to address this.

[Golden Tiger]

Yeah, that was a little out of line there, even for you MK. Sure, you can throw a stab at SD by it but there is nothing funny nor should something like that be used even in jest.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Yeah, that was a little out of line there, even for you MK. Sure, you can throw a stab at SD by it but there is nothing funny nor should something like that be used even in jest. Who was joking? I have 2 daughters. If someone posted info like this about a place I was considering, I would appreciate it.

[Judge Pen]

Seriously, crap like that happens in all types of venues. It's sad whenever it occurs, but it would be wrong to imply that SD was part of the problem. It's sad that it happend, and sad that he met the minor in his school. People like that have serious issues and unfortunately, they are not always easy to spot.

[Brad]

It's a Public Service Announcement. Don't shoot the messenger.
Should've been in a seperate thread then.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Brad
Should've been in a seperate thread then. It is, smart guy. I posted the link to that thread.

[Brad]

Well, it certainly doesn't belong in this thread "smart guy", unless you're planning on making an arguement that Shaolin-Do as an organization somehow condones this. If you're trying to imply something about the organization as a whole(which is what it seems by adding it to the "is SD for real" thread) then at least have the guts to come out an say it.

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Just keep your young daughters away from the Austin schools...

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35128

that's texas for ya ;) They seperate their men from their boys with a crowbar, so I hear.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by Wharg0ul
that's texas for ya ;) They seperate their men from their boys with a crowbar, so I hear.

Yep, thats Denver for ya....thinks child molesting is a joke.

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Yep, thats Denver for ya....thinks child molesting is a joke.

Actually, I'm in Colorado Springs. But it's a general dislike for Texans here. It's not child molestation I make jokes about, it's texans.

[shen ku]

GT i train under master mike kemper i am sure that if you trained in lexington you should know him, he talks about all the same locations that you do.
the thing about loranz and that girl is just sad, i have meet him and it is true that you never know who would do that and what kind of person someone really is, but the facts of it is that he needs help! lots of Psych help, people who do this alot of the times look for places and jobs that will put them close to the target group, I do hope for him that this was just something that just worked around this way and not something that was planed and worked towards

I have a daughter and if it were mine i would besure he good help, HIGH SPEED LEAD THEREPY!!!! after alot of pain time to think about what he had done and what i had cut off

[shen ku]

i thought master sin swam with his hands and feet tied and crawled with his pecs (on dry land) and that master ie was the one who did the pole climing?? and the 6th sense thing i agree with JP as to how i was told it worked

[Jhapa]

Originally posted by shen ku
i thought master sin swam with his hands and feet tied and crawled with his pecs (on dry land)



that's what i was told. i take everything they tell me about gm sin with a grain of salt. i just take what i can and will leave the rest behind.

[David Jamieson]

like i said in the other thread, the guy was charged not convicted.

what is it with you hot heads anyway.

have you happened to see mystic river yet?

get it into ya and get some perspective.

Having said that:

If he is guilty as charged as found by due process then he has abused a position of trust.

Also, it is indicative of a problem in the screening process within the organization he works in.

if the charges are trumped up, then he is getting screwed over big time by a churlish brat.

still wanna put lead in him?

You murcans freak me out with your knee jerk reactions to things in your society that are taboo.

You'll watch slaughter and gore on tv all day and let your kids watch it too but god forbid they should see people making love.

that's ****ed up right there on an ethical and moral level.

[shen ku]

kung lek, sorry i did not mean to shot him i was talking about if i was to KNOW FOR SURE that someone had done what he is accused of to my daughter!!

and i do agree with you on the vilence on tv and in movies , I would much rather have them show a MATURE man and women in a loving and health relationship showing their love for each other,

but on no!! we could never have that on tv someone could be offended!! why who would ever want to teach the children of this country that a man and a women could have a mutual, safe, loving, and health relationship. why that just might not be any good, cause someone my look at their life and realize that they could be in an non-mutual,unsafe, non-loving and unhealth relationship and god forbid we make someone feel bad about their dum###a$$ choices that they have made in life,
OH sorry i could have offended someone out there who could be and abusive , controlling, antisocial, a$$hole

sorry i guess between having a child and the things i have seen in my work i have strong feelings about that ....been around to many nuts, crazys, and druggies

[David Jamieson]

I don't have a problem with people being protective of their children, or children in general.

It is the sad truth though that violence begets violence.

You cannot get back anything the way it was by commiting a violent or even criminal act yourself.

It is only revenge.

And according to the moral tenets in our Judeao-Christian society, revenge ain't ours.

People who get offended at love are only filled with hate. It is their voice that should be tempered. And we should also try to understand their hate so that we as a society may in some way fix that problem

They say equality for all under the law, but it ain't true when the mob rules any more than it's true when the commitee rules.

[BM2]

:( :( :(

[shen ku]

kung lek? if i attack you with intend to do you bodiely harm will you not match my attack with intend to not allow the harm, even if that my cause me harm?

and in an attack of a sexual nature the harm goes much deeper than just the body ( i know people that have gone through this )
we are not perfect we all are only( most of us anyway) trying to follow peacfull paths, i have walked away from many things that could have gotten ungly quick, have had to control everything from gown men 3x my size to children less than half my size who were totally out of control. i have left some of these events in near tears for the person i had to handle.
I will say that some of these men , women , and children were victoms of such acks (sexual ) of sickness and they will suffer to the end of their days with what it has left them with.

[shen ku]

JP i know some school teach alittle defferent material requirment at each black belt rank, what were you tought for 1st to 2nd black ? myself it was tai chi 64, classical pakua, 4 black tigers, and 4 spear forms

[David Jamieson]

kung lek? if i attack you with intend to do you bodiely harm will you not match my attack with intend to not allow the harm, even if that my cause me harm?

I don't think I inferred that.

But, on a sunny day:

If I was attacked for no reason whatsoever, I would assume mental imbalance on the part of my attacker. I cannot presume to know the outcome of the event, but I would protect myself to the best of my ability while at the same time being mindful of not overkilling. If you were greater than I in skill and strength, then that would determine something of the outcome, if we were equals, that would determine something also, if you were weaker then I would do my best to restrain and contain you without bringing harm to you to the best of my abilities.

Rage, anger and hate only impede ones abilty to make a situation right and often only make the situation worse and spiral downward to the negative effect of all involved.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by shen ku
JP i know some school teach alittle defferent material requirment at each black belt rank, what were you tought for 1st to 2nd black ? myself it was tai chi 64, classical pakua, 4 black tigers, and 4 spear forms

That's the same for me. I think some schools have Tang Lang Chien as a requirement as well. I don't know if that's in addition to the other ten or if they susbstitute a form.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by pedro_sanchez
hello all. I am currently a moderator at another martial arts website. I greet you all respectfully. Just a brief background on my martial arts. I trained in boxing for quite a number of years, and I am currently a student of Shaolin 5 animals, Jeet Kune Do and Brazillian Jiu Jitsu.

On the other website, we have had more than a couple of run-ins with the Shaolin-do goof troop. They have been nothing more than trolls who contributed nothing to our website. They claim, until they are blue in the face that they are Shaolin. Even thought they wear Japanese Uniforms, use the belt ranking system and use Japanese terms for thier techniques. Through some great research from one of our other moderators, we have managed to find a website with some video clips of Shaolin-do training. The videos were all sped up to make it look like they had superhuman speed. A pretty lame attempt at that. They would even speed up a very badly coreographed "sparring" session. The members of Shaolin-do were so disrespectful and so not like a student of Shaolin. They call themselves senior students but act more like pre school children. The resorted to poking fun at another moderator whose 1st language wasn't english. The made fun of his grammar and spelling. When in fact there was nothing wrong with his grammar. The Shaolin-do students were just being petty.

My wish is not to start a new stay on this forum on a negative note, but I have had more than a few run-ins with these clowns. When I saw a thread about them here, I was surprised.

Bull crap! Your so called moderator was horrible. He started posting profanities and I asked him if he kissed his mother with that mouth and he banned me because "I talk bad about his mamma" I tried to explain what that saying meant and went round and round. It was the funniest thing I had read in a long time. I would ask you to post the link to the thread but the threads were deleted to cover the tracks of your shoddy moderator. Heck, even MK was present in this thread and he agreed with me.

Nothing wrong with his grammar? Ok .. that’s a good one. The boy was moderating a forum in English and didn’t understand some basics concepts of our language. He threw insults around all over the place and when questioned he went off banning people.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by themeecer
MK was present in this thread and he agreed with me. meecer is correct. I quit going there because of that.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by BM2
Have to say I admire the way you haven't let mk get too much under your skin. themeecer would be proud
:p

Hmmm ... not sure how to take this. hehe

Hey ... someone PM me on the tai chi 37/64 numbering. I was reviewing my notes and comparing it to ones from a manual put out by the Soards and I can't reconcile some of the moves to the names.

[sean_stonehart]

Just buy a copy of Cheng Man Ching's "13 Treatises on Tai Chi"... it's got the form in the back of the book... posture by posture... but it doesn't show you how to link the motions...

[cerebus]

How is it that a martial art which claims to have come directly from the Fukien Shaolin Temple teaches a form which was created by Cheng Man Ching in Taiwan not so many years ago? Does Sin The claim to have studied with master Cheng or one of his students? Or did he learn the form from one of Cheng's books?

[themeecer]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
For example, I have a tiny hole in my diagphragm,
Question is .. did you poke the hole in it on purpose? Just so you can get the poor fool who impregnates you to marry you?:D

[shen ku]

JP master grooms had that at his school ( from his mouth to my ears ) when i spoke with him on the trip back from china

in the new dvds that are out master sin states that the (as we call it anyway) tai chi 24 was created as others on here have said , never really said when he got it

hello themeecer havn't seen you in a while every thing going good i hope

[themeecer]

shen ku, it is going awesome! Life couldn't be better. Thanks for asking. How about you?

[cerebus]

Hmmmm. Did I ask an embarassing question for you SD guys, or do you just not have any idea of the answer?

[shen ku]

i am good how is master green

[BM2]

Well it's obvious that it didn't come from temple isn't cerebus ;)

[cerebus]

Yes, that much is obvious. Which is why I'm asking for the less obvious answer of where DID he learn it from? I know who MY instructors learned it from, and who THEIR instructor learned it from (our school teaches Northern Shaolin, Hsing-I, Tai Chi & Bagua). Who did Sin learn it from?

[Fred Sanford]

Hmmmm. Did I ask an embarassing question for you SD guys, or do you just not have any idea of the answer?

I would guess both. Unless, of course maybe Sin The taught that form to Cheng Man Ching. Anything is possible right?

[Judge Pen]

I think we are talking about two different tai chi forms. I have no idea where either was taught, but I know that Sin the was teaching 64 (or 37 or whatever) llong before he taugth 24. No one is claiming that he taugth it to CMC.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by shen ku
i am good how is master green

He is doing fantastic. I was just at his cabin the other day.

[cerebus]

Well the Tai Chi 24 form is the modern Wushu short-form based on Yang style which was created by a Wushu committee in the....50s, I think. The 64/ 37 form (37 postures, several of them repeated, for a total of 64) was created by Cheng Man Ching in Taiwan (don't recall the specific date).

I'm just wondering how they got into the SD curriculum. They've been available through books for decades. I suspect that's where Sin learned them.

[Ground Dragon]

Go away for a while, come back and there's another huge SD thread. Some things never change :)

[themeecer]

Originally posted by sean_stonehart
Just buy a copy of Cheng Man Ching's "13 Treatises on Tai Chi"... it's got the form in the back of the book... posture by posture... but it doesn't show you how to link the motions...
That's fine ... I can link the postures .. I can show you if you need to know.

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by themeecer
That's fine ... I can link the postures .. I can show you if you need to know.

Thanks but that's ok.

When I play Taiji, I'm working on the Yang 108.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by cerebus
Well the Tai Chi 24 form is the modern Wushu short-form based on Yang style which was created by a Wushu committee in the....50s, I think. The 64/ 37 form (37 postures, several of them repeated, for a total of 64) was created by Cheng Man Ching in Taiwan (don't recall the specific date).

I'm just wondering how they got into the SD curriculum. They've been available through books for decades. I suspect that's where Sin learned them.

" the famous Yang Cheng-Fu (1883-1936) who is also known as Yang Chao-Chin. The
Yang style really gained widespread popularity because of the teaching of
Yang Cheng-Fu, the family members teaching in southern China, Hong Kong and
Taiwan, and the many fine students of Yang Cheng-Fu."

"Cheng Man-ch'ing Chronology -1938 Created the 37 Posture Short Form while in Hunan

So it looks like Yang style was being taught throughout southern China early on. It is even concievable that one of Master Sin's teachers or collegues picked it up during that time and didn't have to wait till it came out in "paperback".

Also just watched a chip of CMC's short form and while most of the moves are close, there are a lot of differences.

PS. Just announced that we will be getting "Hsing I Pang Loong Chen"
Entwine the Dragon 2-edge sword. Yeahhhh!!!!!!!!!

[lxtruong]

Is that the March seminar material? Or some special 5th degree thing that us peons can't hope to attain.

[Golden Tiger]

March Seminar material.....

[lxtruong]

huzzah!

[themeecer]

PS. Just announced that we will be getting "Hsing I Pang Loong Chen"
Entwine the Dragon 2-edge sword. Yeahhhh!!!!!!!!! [/B]

Holy freakin crap!! That form just sounds sexy. I absolutely love double edge sword forms. GT, you'll have to come say hi to me if you are there.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by themeecer
Holy freakin crap!! That form just sounds sexy. I absolutely love double edge sword forms. GT, you'll have to come say hi to me if you are there.

I have said hi to you at the last few seminars.........:D

[themeecer]

Doggone it. This secrecy is killing me. Next time say hi .. then say it is me .... GT.

[Judge Pen]

I've got GT narrowed down to a couple of Masters. . . . but I'm still not sure. :D

[Golden Tiger]

Just another face in the crowd....

[Judge Pen]

Anonymity is nice sometimes. . . .

[lxtruong]

Man, now I'm going to have to drive my sorry ass down all the way to Lexington again. That's a long drive.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by lxtruong
Man, now I'm going to have to drive my sorry ass down all the way to Lexington again. That's a long drive.

It may be closer to drive to Tennessee. ;) You'd have a place to stay if you needed it.

[wdl]

Yeah come see us Long.

How's it going? Haven't gotten to say hi since I was in Austin.

-Will

[lxtruong]

Haha. Well, we'll see. The drive is long either way.

I'm wigging out, my test is in a couple of weeks and I'm not ready. I'm seriously considering putting it off for a couple of months. The only problem is I don't know if putting it off for a couple of months will fix the problem.

[Judge Pen]

PM sent, Long.

[Ground Dragon]

That form does sound pretty cool, I think my favorite form was pang lung pang, dragon ensnares the staff. And I love the straight sword.

Originally posted by themeecer
Holy freakin crap!! That form just sounds sexy. I absolutely love double edge sword forms. GT, you'll have to come say hi to me if you are there.

[Judge Pen]

Your favorite form's coming up for me GD. It's good to see you back and posting, btw.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Man, they're coming out of the woodwork around here. Maybe you should ask Gene for your own forum. 28 pages is a long read. :D

[Judge Pen]

Maybe we'll just come over and all post on the Nothern Manits forum instead. :D

[shen ku]

JP do you know of any shao-lin do school in nashville

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by shen ku
JP do you know of any shao-lin do school in nashville

Yeah, there's a small school there. Ernest McClain is the teacher and a 2nd degree I believe. He's a good guy and quick as a cat.

[norther practitioner]

quick as a cat you say...

[BM2]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
I have said hi to you at the last few seminars.........:D

I'm sooo glad we cleared up that hot buttered popcorn thingy!!! Hey, you probably already forgot and don't know what I am talking about ;)

[Shaolinlueb]

the real question is, is judgepen for real?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by BM2
I'm sooo glad we cleared up that hot buttered popcorn thingy!!! Hey, you probably already forgot and don't know what I am talking about ;) Hey, at least he's weening off the Viagra. Give the old guy a break.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
Yeah, there's a small school there. Ernest McClain is the teacher and a 2nd degree I believe. He's a good guy and quick as a cat. What's it take, like 4-5 years to get 2nd Black?

Who is ready to run a school after 4 years?

Seems pretty common in SD. The guy in Lubbock is what, a first degree black? What's that, 3 years of training?

[Radhnoti]

I know guys who weren't interested in testing for additional belts after 1st black who have 20+ years in...

My teacher didn't think he'd ever teach (which becomes somewhat political) and had a teacher who didn't care if he ever tested for another belt. He had around 10 years in as a (practicing and active) first black, but he had all the material necessary for 3rd worked up for a long time.

But, yeah, someone could advance really quickly and still end up teaching if one of the Master-types (usually GM Sin, I believe) think they're ready.

[lxtruong]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
What's it take, like 4-5 years to get 2nd Black?

Who is ready to run a school after 4 years?

Seems pretty common in SD. The guy in Lubbock is what, a first degree black? What's that, 3 years of training?

How much skill does it really take to teach rank beginners?

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by lxtruong
How much skill does it really take to teach rank beginners?


Well not much if you're not interested in teaching or don't care about the student... not much at all. Take a gander at any McDojo & you can see that... $$$$$$ is the rule of thumb.

If however you're interested in turning good well rounded students, it takes skill.

Any monkey can learn, but not any monkey can teach...

[MasterKiller]

word.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
What's it take, like 4-5 years to get 2nd Black?

Who is ready to run a school after 4 years?

Seems pretty common in SD. The guy in Lubbock is what, a first degree black? What's that, 3 years of training?

I don't know how long he's been training, but it takes at least 5 years to get 2nd under the Tennessee schools. I'm pretty sure he's been training longer than that.

I've been doing it for 15 and I don't want to teach.

And SL I'm not real; I'm a figment of your imagination.

[lxtruong]

Sure it takes skill, but skill isn't measured in years. Experience is constantly being gained and even as your students evolve, you evolve as well.

Consider for instance, for the first couple of months, most of what the average student learns are the basics. A skilled martial artist with only a couple of years can teach that. After that, it's not like you haven't gone through what your students have gone through, no?

I would definately say that teaching in some form or another is essential to growth as a martial artist.

[MasterKiller]

With 4 or 5 years of training or less, you are probably barely qualified to assist your instructor, let alone run a school on your own.

Would you want someone with 5 years of training as your head instructor? Me neither.

[lxtruong]

If you were a freshman in college, would you demand that you have a college professor tutoring you in algebra or would a college freshman be enough?

Why does it matter how many years the head instructor have? As long as he knows a lot more than me, isn't that enough? It would be one thing certainly if he didnt 'have more knowledge than me, but consider that this is your first day of martial arts instruction. I would maintain that someone with 4 years can teach you just as much as someone with 8 or 20.

[Judge Pen]

Nope, honestly I wouldn't want them to be my head instructor, either, but I'm sure there could be exceptions. Someone with other training prior to joining a system (I'm not just talking about SD here). Maybe they're prodigies. Maybe other factors outweigh a lack of experience.

But generally, no I would look for the most experienced instructor as possible.

[themeecer]

I agree that 1st and 2nd degree black belts should not be teaching. In our system you are not even viewed as a student until you hit first black. However like stated above, some people could care less about testing and even though they are a first degree they may have 15+ years experience. I was a first for about 8 years and a second for about 9 years. I guess I like the decade a rank advancement program. I have seen instances where this is not the case, where a practioner of 5 years is running his own school. I disagree with this 100%.

edit: I am only speaking of head instructors. I allow first degree black belts to teach the lower belts during class, all the time. Difference is, I personally come by and check their material and make any adjustments needed.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lxtruong
If you were a freshman in college, would you demand that you have a college professor tutoring you in algebra or would a college freshman be enough? Tutor = Assistant Instructor. Teach the class = head instructor. There is a difference, IMO.

It would be one thing certainly if he didnt 'have more knowledge than me, but consider that this is your first day of martial arts instruction. Not everyone who walks into a CMA school is a n00b. What happens when you get a new student with 5 years in another style who just moved to town?

I would maintain that someone with 4 years can teach you just as much as someone with 8 or 20. If you wanted to be a very good astronomer, would you want to study math under someone with a B.S. or a Ph.D? I think I'd seek out the Ph.D. If I cared about being good, that is...

[lxtruong]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Tutor = Assistant Instructor. Teach the class = head instructor. There is a difference, IMO.

Not everyone who walks into a CMA school is a n00b. What happens when you get a new student with 5 years in another style who just moved to town?

If you wanted to be a very good astronomer, would you want to study math under someone with a B.S. or a Ph.D? I think I'd seek out the Ph.D. If I cared about being good, that is...

Ah, but if you wanted to be a very good astronomer, and you were only a HS student, would you reject learning from someone because they JUST had a BS?

Of course, if someone walks into the school with 10 years of experience, there is probably not all that much that the head instructor with only 5 years experience can teach them. They should go elsewhere. Does this mean that the instructor there has no business teaching though?

I maintain that only the delta-skill matters. The instructor with 4 years experience is an appropiate instructor for some students, not all.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
And SL I'm not real; I'm a figment of your imagination.

thank god. i got scared there for a minute ;)

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lxtruong
I maintain that only the delta-skill matters. The instructor with 4 years experience is an appropiate instructor for some students, not all. I agree. He's the approproiate teacher for students not interested in being very good.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller

Not everyone who walks into a CMA school is a n00b. What happens when you get a new student with 5 years in another style who just moved to town?


They would either leave or beat the crap out of the instructor and take over teaching.

I think Meece makes an excellent point. Just because someone can attain a rank in a certain minimum time doesn't mean they have. A first degree with 10 years of experience is probably more qualified to teach then a 2nd degree with 5 years total. Not necessarily true, but I'd go for experience over material, all other things equal.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by lxtruong
I would maintain that someone with 4 years can teach you just as much as someone with 8 or 20.


You mean i have been doing this crap all this time for nothing?

Actually, I would have to disagree with you on this one lxt. Old people made it that long for a reason....wisdom and experience that only time can provide.

[shen ku]

JP, do you know how to get in touch with the nashville school? i have a student that has been out and then moved for school and is wanting to start again?
On the idea of what rank or how long you have been training in order to teach, i had been training for 7 years when i started, i had been a 1st black for 3 years. i learned things from teaching that i would have never learned simply by praticing, teaching helped me as much ( maybe more ) than it did those i was working with. I do not feel anyone person can say when someone should start or what is a flat out standard for this.
I can say
1 i learned alot!!!! from teaching. you may have found all the answers to your ??? but now someone elsa is asking you theirs and you must dig deep and study hard
2 i have no dought that i am a better teacher today than i was then and that is because i have been doing it, experience? the thing is what are you experienced at practicing or teaching?
3 even now when i feel that i am a more skilled teacher, i have old students come up to me and thank me for what i showed them in 1993 ( thats when i started teaching ) BUT I DO WONDER sometimes am i as fired up as i was then, do my students see how much i enjoy what i do, are they able to feed off it ,
Some people will never teach and for them i am sad,

"Everyone we meet will be superior to us in some way, whether it be in wisdom, wealth, or strength" old chinese proverb

" if you wish to truely learn, take a student "

" to be a master be a survent , to be survent be a master "

and if we all waited untill we were truely ready, no one would ever start

[Vash]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
A first degree with 10 years of experience is probably more qualified to teach then a 2nd degree with 5 years total. Not necessarily true, but I'd go for experience over material, all other things equal.

Ahhh! The logic!! It burns like hygiene!!!

[Judge Pen]

SK,

You are right, you do learn more teaching then anything. I've taught as an assistant for years, but I take that responsability very seriously. Why take from me when you can learn from my teacher who is much better than me?

And there are other factors besides experience: enthusiam, communication skills, physical ability, organizational skills, opportunity, resources, etc, etc., but if all those things were the same or similar, I'd take the more experienced teacher over the less.

I'll see if I can get some information to you regarding the Nashville school. I don't think it's listed on the SDA site anymore.

[Brad]

Just thought I'd go back to the college analogy for a second, and say why I don't like it and don't think it's valid when it comes to martial arts.

First of all, to get a "4 year degree" still usually takes more than 4 years. Just because we don't count highschool(or even middle school) when saying "4 year degree", you're still learning skills often directly related to what you end up studying in college. And that means you're going to school pretty much full time. Martial arts often has a mental/acedemic aspect, but it's also a physical dicipline first. How many athletes only play their sport for 4 years of their life, and then suddenly get a head coaching job?

[shen ku]

brad, if you look around you can also find coaches , head and assistants , that have really never played much of their sport at all