Strike and Press/Trapping hands partener forms?

[sayloc]

Anyone ever heard of these?

Are they real?

If so are they forms or exercises?

Long or short in duration?

Thanks for any info.

[German Bai Lung]

If you mean the Chin Na Form of the seven star praying mantis called Chyun Ji Doi Da - yes it´s a real high level partner form! With much Trapping, pressing, locks, sweeps, rolling, hitting etc ...

Its quite long and full of new experiences for everyone, no matter how many partnersets you learned before! It´s pure fun and 200% Mantis! ;)

[mantis108]

Sound like Pai An (slap press) which is indeed a 2 person form/drill. Basically, there are 3 sections of drills that link together. There are different versions of it. We have covered this before. If you are interested, we can go over that here again.

Mantis108

[sayloc]

Thanks for the info guys!

I think Pai an is what I was thinking about.

I picked the three exercises up from a friend (kind of) and was wondering if they were real or somthing from a tape or the like.

I have 3.

1. deals with pressing down with the first hand and sliding in with a strike ending in a strike to ribs with the opponent doing an elbow control or break. the the other side executes the atack.
Three r four moves each side

2. Is much the same as one except you use traping with a hook hand.

3. Is similar but seems to be mostly "sticky hands" stuff

you can also add kicks with the first two not sure about the 3rd.

Do these seem like the real thing to you 108?

Thanks

[yu shan]

This is one of my favs, but I only know part of it. Robert, can you explain the 3 sections for me? And what version do you know? Did you pick this up from TM? For some reason, this drill seems so secretive and I wonder why? Sorry for so many questions. Thank you in advance.

[Tieh]

If you mean the Chin Na Form of the seven star praying mantis called Chyun Ji Doi Da - yes it´s a real high level partner form! With much Trapping, pressing, locks, sweeps, rolling, hitting etc ...

Want to learn that, want to learn that, want to learn that...

[pest]

Originally posted by German Bai Lung
If you mean the Chin Na Form of the seven star praying mantis called Chyun Ji Doi Da - yes it´s a real high level partner form! With much Trapping, pressing, locks, sweeps, rolling, hitting etc ...

Its quite long and full of new experiences for everyone, no matter how many partnersets you learned before! It´s pure fun and 200% Mantis! ;)

Hello,
I was wondering if you could put the english name of this form? i have the same responce Tieh has :D

~Pest

[mantis108]

found this thread about Pai An that we discussed before.

Pai An Revisited (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=23793&highlight=Pai+An)

Hi Sayloc,

The "drills" that you mention doesn't sound like the usual Pai An pattern. It sounds more like San Shou or Shou Fa type of practice. It could be excerpt of a piece from a version of Pai An but from the info you provided it's a bit vague to work with.

I have heard that HK 7 star (Yuen Man Kai?) has Pai An. WHF mentioned Yin Qing Po Shou which is Pai An. I have never seen those versions. I am not sure where your friend's version came from so it is hard to guage.

Hi Jim,

My version came from GM Chiu. He called it Xiao Kaimen and Da Kaimen. (little and big open door). Xiao Kaimen is what gerenally known as Pai An. When I show this form, I usually break it down in to 3 drills. I find it easier to learn this way. As for secretive, I don't think this form is like that at all. There are plenty of important lessons about PM in it, especially the greater Meihwa side of things, but they aren't really secrets. It is a bit taxing if it is done with Sao Tang (attribute could be the secret edge, so...) The only thing that I could think of is how to change sides (that's where Da Kaimen comes in) and linking other forms and shou fa with it. Knowing the changes and where to execute a finish is key. 7 hands is much the same way. I think 8 Step's methodology first teaches the 7 hands and then the Pai An is a brilliant one. In fact, you could link 7 hands and Pai An together. That's the beauty of Mantis I think. All things are connected. I think I have some clips of me and my student doing that somewhere. I could dig it up and made a MPG clip. But it will take a little time. Again, I will need someone's help to host it. :)

Warm regards

Robert (Mantis108)

[Young Mantis]

Mantis108,

To my knowledge, many students of WHF learned Pai An (Pahk Awn in Cantonese). Definitely anyone certified by WHF to teach would have had it, not just Yuen Man Kai. I too have read in the WHF text that this drill is formally called Yen Ching Paw Sau although we have only referred to is as Pahk Awn.

Pahk Awn as I learned it has several stages of training. Stationary, unidirectional, bidirectional, fixed sequence, and finally free flowing. I think it is a great sensitivity and reflex drill.

YM

[mantis108]

Thank you for the input. I would love to learn the Seven Star version someday. I have so far only come across 8 steps and another version by Su Yuchang beside ours. It would be great to see the Seven Star version for comparison. BTW, I believe your Sifu have another drill called Black Tiger Steals The Hearts. I wonder if other 7 stars stylists have that too?

Warm regards

Mantis108

[-N-]

Originally posted by mantis108 BTW, I believe your Sifu have another drill called Black Tiger Steals The Hearts. I wonder if other 7 stars stylists have that too?
We have BTSH partner drill here in SF also. The techniques are simple, but the small details of their application are important.

N.

[Oso]

Robert, Jim has taught me the first part/version of Pai An and our version of BTSH. Love them both.

-N-: I think BTSH is simple as well but if yours has the uppercut that ours does...wow! on the power you can generate if your waist jing is in the groove.


One thing I've notice about PL material is that a lot of the drills utilize an outer hanging punch and Jim has shown another drill that switches at the OHP with Wai Gua Shou and so I've been playing with the other drills that have OHP and switching up betwixt them all. Get's a little comical at times.:p

[mantis108]

Sorry about the late reply. Busy with business year end... :(

Hi Norman,

Thank for the input. Would you mind sharing your BTSH drill here? I would love to hear your insight on it. Thanks.

Hi Matt,

Would you mind sharing your version of BTSH also? I think I see the move(s) that you are referring to but I am not sure if we are working with the same drill.

I am working on sharing my version of the Pai An online. GBL has graciously agreed to host that for me (Thanks Jochen!)

About the Wai Gua Shou, is it the same one Kevin shared in the MQ? It is a very powerful and important drill indeed. It is amongst the most love-hated drills of my students. There is a variation of it in the Tao Hua San as well. There is an interseting footwork to go with it. Come to think of it, my version of Pai An seems to be working with the variations of the Wai Gua Shou with footwork as well.

Warm regards

Robert

[Oso]

simplest thing would be to post the video of me and Jim training this when he first taught it to me. I'll check with him to make sure he's ok with that first.

[-N-]

Robert, Matt,

The version of BTSH partner drill that I learned starts with partners A and B circling opposite each other for one complete circle at a distance outside the kicking range. Both end up right side forward.

A jumps in to close the distance.
B uses right punch as a stop punch.
A uses fung tung chui against the stop punch.
B uses left gwa sau to deflect A's tung chui.
A uses left fung sau against B's gwa, and right tau sum chui.
B uses right hand to redirect A's tau sum chui.
A uses left fung sau against B's redirect, and right bung chui.
B uses right bung chui against A's bung chui, and bai moon tui.
A uses two hands cutting down on B's kick while jumping backwards to escape.
B jumps forwards to maintain the distance.

Now the sequence repeats where A and B switch roles. A uses right stop punch, B uses fung tung chui, etc. The sequence then goes back and forth with A and B switching each time.

Matt, I can see using the uppercut/filing punch/cho chui in place of the attacking bung chui. That would be very nice.

So anyway, that's our sequence. As far as the small details:

- The partners start at a distance where one or the other has to jump to close the gap and attack.

- The person not jumping stands his ground and uses stop punch to the face to disrupt the other person's forward energy and steal the timing of the attack away from the other person.

- The attacker speeds up by half a timing to steal the attack back.

- The attacker uses fung tung chui with small frame for hands.

- The tung chui completes in mid jump.

- The tau sum chui follows yet half a timing sooner compared to the tung chui. Initiates at mid jump, and finishes before landing.

- The waist coordinates with the two punches in a sharp right left snap during the jump.

- Upon landing the right foot into horse stance, the body weight sharply and immediately rebounds in coordination with right waist snap to shoot out the bung chui.

- The rebounding footwork advances in a step slide.

- The bung chui lands before the footwork completes.

- Normally the person attacking with bung uses bai moon tui, but in this sequence the person countering with bung chui steals the attack away by using bai moon tui first.

- As the original attacker jumps to escape the kick, the other person also jumps to maintain the exact same distance and even close in.

- The escaping person hides his stop punch and applies it just before he lands, and as the pursuing person is about to land, so as to make the pursuer eat a punch.

The physical details are mainly of the relative timing of the movements, and of the movements relative one's footwork, and to the other person's actions. At another level, the drill is about the relative timing and transitions in intent and spirit. The 3 punches and a kick themselves are not much.

So that's about it. I guess those are all my "secrets" :)

N.

[Oso]

oops, made a mistake. must have misunderstood a reference Jim made. it's not BTSH. still might post the drill as I like it and the clip looks pretty good.

[Tainan Mantis]

N,
I was utterly amazed reading your drill.
Well written too.
That is just like our drill called chuen zi(circle) duei da.

Nice to see different PM groups with similar things for their training.

[-N-]

Tainan Mantis,

Thank you for the kind words. I usually don't post here much. My teacher always said, "less talk, more practice, makes one a better praying mantis." And I certainly need the practice! :)

N.

[mantis108]

Well, when it rains, it pours. Thanks! :)

It does sound very interesting. I agreed with Kevin that this method is similar to his. I am also very impressed with the clarity of your secret in written form. ;) Really appreciate the open sharing. It means a lot, thank you.

Matt,

I am definitely looking forward for your clip. I hope Jim would give the okay. :)

Warm regards

Robert

[German Bai Lung]

First I like to introduce some of Robert Clips:
Drill (http://www.bailung.de/mov/drill01.mpg)

Well, for I´m not a native english speaker, sometimes I´m a little bit lame to catch the Idea of what you guys speakin ´bout.

But now I´m looking through: those drills of pai an we also train a lot. Beginning with au lou choi as partnerdrill, going on with the beginning of Tou Fa San Doi Da or like Kevin named it: outer hanging Gwa Drill.
Theres a drill with Cho Choi, Gwa (only the block) and Au Lou Choi and of Course many more.

Maybe we should all spend some money for a own Mantis Webspace, where to put the clips on ... I sure would like to record some of mine if I could see some of yours!

And that one of Robert is fun! Good ending there! And as always: cool background!! :D :D

[mantis108]

Wow, thanks my friend! Glad you like it. It is very gracious of you to host that for me again. I really appreciate it.

This drill is Called Diao Da Feng Tzo. It consists of 3 moves Diao Da, Feng Tzo, and Bu Chui. There is a leaping in and attack which is not shown here. BTW, this is similar to black tiger steals heart. I often think of this as BTSH. But it seems to be different from -N- 's drill.

James (ligth t-shirt) or A - initiates with leaping in and performs Diao Da.
Shandy (black t-shirt) or B - defenses with low Bu Chui or Tau Xin Chui (steal heart punch)

A performs Feng Tzo ( sealing with upper cut type of punch)
B defenses with Diao Da

A parries the Tong Chui (Da) and attack with a low Bu Chui
B defense with Feng Tzo.

This goes on a few rounds and then A saw an oppotunity to capture the Tzo Chui and attacks B's elbow with a Ge Zhou. This would be easy if A first performs a Go Lu Tsai and B responds with a Go Lu Tsai. It is kind of difficult this way but A pulls it off anyway.

B quickly defend the elbow attack by pushing A's left Ge Zhou hand. A grabs B's hand thus totally trapping B's hands.

A performs Ciao Tui Takedown and follow up with a control by pressing the pressure point behind B's ear. This point is used by Russian Sambo/JJ people as well.

There are more finishes depending on the moves and this drill can go with the Wai Gua Shou drill as well. I stress that at any given time a finish can come. So both partners have to be on their toes to not get caught either by a hit or a joint lock. Of course takedowns at any time too. So it is a lot of fun playing with it. Later, ground fighting moves can be added as well.

Tainan has a lot of this type of fun drills. So hopefully he will share more in the future.

I hope everyone enjoy this. I also think that GBL has a great idea of have a webspace for Mantis clips.

Warm regards

Robert

[Tainan Mantis]

OMG,
Robert,
I can't believe you posted the drill.
Did I show that?

That guy who falls down should roll into some videos on the wall and stick the corner of the box in his eye..

But, seriously, they are fluid enough, but the punches are not within range.
In other words, if one guy misses the block, he won't get hurt.
In contrast to the arm bar at the end which was actually applied.

Still, it looks pretty cool.
Nice to see someone posting a drill, especially in a vid format I can watch.
Thanks.

[mantis108]

Finally, you can watch the clip! The clip form me before is of the same format. I am not sure why this one works and other didn't? But no matter. Sorry, I can't find something more exciting like breaking the shelves with head butt, etc... lol...

This was the first drill you showed me. Well, I know they don't do this one well (may be in 50 yrs they could do this well enough, lol..). This was filmed last summer. James particularly have a problem being afraid of hitting someone accidentally. Uni students these days. :rolleyes: ;) :D So both of them "respect" the other's space. *sigh* The arm bar is the first thing they drill from the first day they started. I will kill them myself if they screw that up. lol...

Anyway, for showing the pattern of the moves and flow of the drill, I thought this would help explain what we are working on. It took them awhile to get the drill down.

Glad you enjoy it. I actually have you to thank for sharing something so much fun to play with. Everyone (including some blackblet level JMA/KMA MAists) who learned this loves it and wants to learn more stuff like it.

You are Da Man! Thanks

Warmest regards

Robert

[Oso]

got the clip up.

www.ashevillemartialarts.com/ninjassuck.htm

this was the day I learned the drill...actually, I think I learned it just minutes before the video was shot.

so, there's my disclaimer if you don't think it looks so good ;) :D

btw, for those that care to, bookmark that page as any thing I get to post will go there but you can't directly access that page from menu's on my site.

[sayloc]

oso

great clip!

May have to borrow that one!

Thanks for posting

[mantis108]

Wow, I am thrilled to see Yushan and Oso drilling the same drill here on KFO. I would venture to say this is unpresendented. I think this is the first time in forum history that a drilling is being shown side by side illustrating different flavors and energy.

My compliments to the Ponglai group for the sharing.

Back to the drill and thoughts that I would like to share.

1) There is a major difference most obvious to the eyes. Yushan's clip has clear Ponglai flavor IMHO. We can see the waist movement (body method) being employed. This is bascially what Tainan was talking about my students not being in range. So Yushan's clip is a fine example of that. The power coming from the waist is very important. This drill is excellent for that as well. This also very the danger of getting smack in the face comes in.

2) If we look closely, we'll see something different in the moves. For example, Yushan uses Gua Da while my clip uses Diao Da. There are also more powerful blocking in Yushan's clip; while there are virtually no blocking in mine. This is the two side (yinyang Gangrou) of the drill. The general rule of thumb is "do unto others as you wish others do unto you." It is not so much a question of which is better. It is just different. In a sense, Yushan and I both are "secrets" relative to each other. ;) This is not to take away from each other but to say that there are more to meet the eyes even with a seemingly simple drill.

3) As I have said before there are more ways to apply finishes. In essential this drill with the 3 moves, diao da - feng tzo - bu chui, is already a powerful striking combination. I further combine it with Ge zhou and ciao tui combo which I could change it to siccors kick takedown if I so choose. So if we have more drills or more combinations, there is virtually no limits to what we can do. But we all start with drilling them.

4) My students are more "upright" because they took the Gezhou combination into account as well. Frankly, there's only some much they can handle with their expirences at the time without seriously injuring each other. When they can use the body method without fear of losing control of going for other combinations or seriously hurting the other, then they would have made some progress.

5) Here's another "secret" :- This piece is awesome for drilling all the moves and combinations in Bengbu. So for all those who love Bengbu, I would say "feast your eyes on the drill".

6) Finally, drilling should be alive (again Yushan's clip is a fine example). So drill on.

I hope this would also positively show that Ponglai really has something unique and great to offer. Shrfu Shr who has started this is soon to be available to show this and many more. Can you afford to lose the oppotunity? I have grown tremendous with the help of Tainan and others within the Ponglai group. This is only a small service that I can return that favor. So please forgive a little plug for the upcoming Ponglai seminar.

Mantis108

[Michael Dasargo]

Hey -N-,

Its good to see you come out of the cave a bit. For those who don't know, -N- is an incredible Mantis Boxer surpassed only by his humility. I had the oppurtunity to go to work on this drill with -N-, and I can't stress the importance of the drill enough.

I look forward to getting together with you again soon. The academy starts in October, so hopefully I'll be able to visit you when the dust settles.

Long live Lai Sifu!

M.

[-N-]

M.

Re boxing... hey, no need to spread misinformation! Anyway, as much practice as I need, I have plenty to be humble about.

Let me know when you want to work out together. Your students are welcome any time too.

take care,
N.

[yu shan]

Robert

Thank you Sir for the compliment. Although this drill is maybe not a true BTSH, I labeled as such for the fist in the face. I was suppose to put my fist in Matt`s face to hide my left straight coming in. One of the positives to watching one self of video... what you can improve. Anyway, like Matt said, he had just learned minutes before, my hats off to him for his execution. Well, do unto others, with Matt ya gotta bring your "A" game, no matter what you are doing... I like to train with this kind of pugilist.

Thank you Robert for the tip on Bengbu, I will look at this drill this way.

Yes, drilling should be alive. I`m very proud of my lineage with Shr Zhengzhong, Kevin Brazier and John Scolaro. The intent is explosive and laden with quality.

We will put up some new clips soon. Thank you for the plug on Master Shr`s seminar.

[puja]

Thanks Robert and Yushan for sharing your clips here. It's very interesting to see one drill like robert said "being shown side by side illustrating different flavors and energy" It would be good to do that more often, as it is much easier to understand than some explanations in text-form (btw, -N-'s explanation was exceptionally well understandable) and as many fine details that can be clearly seen on clips wouldn't be noticed otherwise.

As to the idea of some webspace for posting mantis related content: I do have a Webspace with about 200 MB of space and 6 GB traffic a month, which I don't really use much at the moment. The domain is tanglang.info so it would be predestined for sharing mantis-content. I have put some website on it which is lacking content and which I could modify for better access to the files.

best regards,

Puja

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

puja
Thanks for offering to host some Mantis clips. Could you set up FTP for uploads? That way we don't use up your time posting the files.

One question: To minimize hacker use (they'll put warez there if they can) and excessive traffic I think it should be restricted to Mantis users with account access. At least keep the FTP login account/password within the Mantis community. Everyone agree?

[puja]

I started a new thread on this to have it seperated from this topic. I think BTL would be happier this way ;)

here's the link:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31809

Puja

[mantis108]

You are most welcome. I am thrilled to hear that more are coming. :D Looking forward for them and thank you for sharing in advance.

Technology is a great friend to have in today's MA training. I make use of it for the benefit of my students as well.

Hi Puja,

You are welcome, my friend. Please see my reply to your new thread. :)

Warm regards

Robert

[MantisCool]

I have our version of 7* Pai An to share. Maybe, Jochen would be kind too to host for me! Is it Ok, Jochen?

[German Bai Lung]

Khoo, check your PMs!

[mantis108]

I am very much looking forward for the 7* version of Pai An. I am digging through my DV tapes for my version as well. It is great to have sharing of clips going!

I am elated to see that we can foster a positive environment for future sharing and learning from each other online.

Warm regards

Robert

[German Bai Lung]

I got a little clip of drills:

Drills (http://www.tanglang.info/clips/drills.mov)

1. The opening of Partnerset Tou Fa San Doi Da (very similar to Outer Gwa from Kevin)
2. Sequenze with Kick also from Tou Fa San Doi Da
3. Some Basic Drill: Au Lou Choi - Gwa - Cho Choi
4. Jaam Miu Drill - it shows some typically application of the waist chopping palm, followed by Hyun Choi and Bang Choi

[Oso]

Nice !!

Is that a rooftop or some sort of patio you guys and gals are training on? I notice that some of the still shots from the LKW seminar seem to be from the same place.

[mantis108]

Hi Jochen,

Most excellent! Thank you for sharing these wonderful drills. Here are some thoughts that I would like to share with you.

" 1. The opening of Partnerset Tou Fa San Doi Da (very similar to Outer Gwa from Kevin)"

This is the Wei Gua Shou or outer hanging punch. Kevin has this and couple of the changes within this drill in his Babu Lienhuan video. This sequence here appears in the beginning of the Tao Hua San/Tou Fa San as well. In our version of Pai An/Xiao Kaimen, this is done with kicking and footwork with the hands as well.

"2. Sequenze with Kick also from Tou Fa San Doi Da"

This is excellent drill for teaching basic Tanglang hand and kicking combination. There are also Chin Na (including takedown) lessons hidden within. I think this drill is one of Tanglang's finest drills.

"3. Some Basic Drill: Au Lou Choi - Gwa - Cho Choi"

This one is similar to your Zhan Nien or Chan Nien. I like it this way though. It is much tighter IMHO.

"4. Jaam Miu Drill - it shows some typically application of the waist chopping palm, followed by Hyun Choi and Bang Choi"

I like this quite a bit especially because there are footwork involved. There is also another way to the Quan Beng/Hyun Bang if the opponent don't moving back to neutralize the waist chop. That way is more like the Bengbu form.

All these drills are great and they all can link together as one long drill. This shows the uniqueness and the beauty of true mantis drills in that all of them are connected which in turn connect with the forms. Thank you for sharing such wonderful material. Please keep 'em coming, my friend. Thanks

Warm regards

Robert

[German Bai Lung]

Hi Oso,

It´s a Terrace in front of the Training Room. So if the weather here is good enpugh, we go outside to gain some extra space. Good for Situations when weapontraining or Partnersets are the subject.

Hi Robert,

thanks for your comments. I think if we keep sharing our stuff, we better know what everyone is talking about.
Also it´s good to learn something from eachother!
And yes: Mantis is unique and brilliant! Every day I can find some new thing and recognize that everything fits more and more together!

It´s a journey through a neverending experience!

[mantis108]

Nice clip there, my friend. :) It would seem that our visions are similar. We have 2 low kicks as the advancing side move forward. Do you do the Sao Tang (floor sweeping) part as well?

Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to more in the future.

Warm regards

Mantis108

PS the roof top is nice place to train too!

[MantisCool]

Hi! Robert

We dont have the low kicks or the Sao Tang but we can add the 2 cak tui or the 2 cross kicks as in the Tou Fa San set.

When in demonstration, we do the sequence maybe 3 times and then the opposide side would move towards my left as he blocks my 2 punches. Then I do the sequence another time and he move again towards my left. Now, our standing position has switched side!

I would then redo the sequence again and towards the end he would move as usual until we switched back to original position as we started. In the end, I would do a "Swang feng shou" (gripping his right hand with both hands) and deliver a left side kick to his right ribs. He would use his left hand to block and push my leg out towards his left, and I would made a turning with the remaining right leg pivoting on the ground and then both of us "Ta Fa and Sou Sek" literally meaning do a flower hands and get back to position. In the beginning, we also do a stomping and Ta Fa before we start.

You are right! Always more refreshing and best for doing Chi Kung.

[German Bai Lung]

Originally posted by MantisCool

I would then redo the sequence again and towards the end he would move as usual until we switched back to original position as we started. In the end, I would do a "Swang feng shou" (gripping his right hand with both hands) and deliver a left side kick to his right ribs. He would use his left hand to block and push my leg out towards his left, and I would made a turning with the remaining right leg pivoting on the ground and then both of us "Ta Fa and Sou Sek" literally meaning do a flower hands and get back to position.

Hi Khoo,

this sounds very similar to the end of the Partnerset "Tao Jit Doi Da".

In my opinion most of the drills are from Partnersets or look very similar to them. So, best to do them instead of training to much drills!

Drills are for the beginner very good and important, but at some point the partnerset have to take their place and bring the student further on.

[mantis108]

Thanks for the detailed reply. You have just open up some interesting window for me. Very cool indeed!

<<<We dont have the low kicks or the Sao Tang but we can add the 2 cak tui or the 2 cross kicks as in the Tou Fa San set.>>>

This is very nice. I will have to try this for sure! Thanks.

<<<When in demonstration, we do the sequence maybe 3 times and then the opposide side would move towards my left as he blocks my 2 punches. Then I do the sequence another time and he move again towards my left. Now, our standing position has switched side!>>>

Yes, we do 3 times for demo as well. If I understand you correctly, it would be like making a U trun right? That's quite interesting. We use another part which we call Da Kaimen (large open door) as a connector for the turn. This way we will change sides (advancing side becomes retreating side and vice versa) without making a U turn. It's nice to know your way too.

<<<I would then redo the sequence again and towards the end he would move as usual until we switched back to original position as we started. In the end, I would do a "Swang feng shou" (gripping his right hand with both hands) and deliver a left side kick to his right ribs. He would use his left hand to block and push my leg out towards his left, and I would made a turning with the remaining right leg pivoting on the ground and then both of us "Ta Fa and Sou Sek" literally meaning do a flower hands and get back to position. In the beginning, we also do a stomping and Ta Fa before we start.>>>

Nice, I agreed with Jochen that this part seems to be similar to Tau Jie (steal intercept). Very interesting.

Hi Jochen,

I think you are right that quite a few drills seem to be derived from partner sets. In a way, perfecting a drill helps to shorten the learning time for partner sets. I believe that's very the benefit is. IMHO drills are short combinations which make them ideal for working on applications (finishing moves). This reinforces stylistic identity as well.

Warm regards

Robert

[yu shan]

:cool: Hi Robert

With Master Shr coming to the United States next month, I will ask him about posting more clips of our material on KFM. Hopefully, with his approval we can put up some cool stuff for all to enjoy. Oso and I think along the same lines, we want to share with our Mantis brothers and sisters, like they are sharing with us. I would like to see this Mantis forum evolve into a visual sharing of material, along with dialogue. Seems like the right thing to do!

[mantis108]

If Shrfu Shr would agree to letting more material being sharing on the KFO, it would be indeed great news. Glad to hear that we are along the same line of thoughts.

"I would like to see this Mantis forum evolve into a visual sharing of material, along with dialogue. Seems like the right thing to do!"

Good call! Indeed the right thing to do. I am 200% in agreement and I would like to echo this as a important misson statement for our community.

So let's keep 'em coming.

Warm regards

Robert

[MantisCool]

Hi! Jochen

You are right! It is similar to the part of the Tou Jit Doi Da. It is for closing the set if not the set could not end! Like in Roberts clip, he used the eldow to finish off the drill.

Drills are for the beginner very good and important, but at some point the partnerset have to take their place and bring the student further on.

You are right!

Hi! Robert

Yes, we do 3 times for demo as well. If I understand you correctly, it would be like making a U trun right? That's quite interesting. We use another part which we call Da Kaimen (large open door) as a connector for the turn. This way we will change sides (advancing side becomes retreating side and vice versa) without making a U turn. It's nice to know your way too.

Right! We made a U-Turn. From begining to end, the attacker and defender never switched role.

The Tau Jit side is an additional to close the set as in your drill part with the elbow!