View Full Version : "Wing Chun Dim Mak" & "Bil Jee"
06-05-2001, 10:00 PM
Greetings Ladies & Gents:)
Does anyone have any knowledge of Wing Chun Dim Mak & Bil Jee? I stubbled across this info on the web and I found it very interesting. Is this really a part of the Wing Chun System? Has anyone bought the Dim Mak instructional video which is sold on Amazon.com? If so was it worth it?
06-06-2001, 01:57 AM
Some people claim that there is a whole slew of Dim Mak included in the dummy form as well as others. I know that several of William Cheungs people advocate the existance of points for hitting and also train for utilizing them. Not sure as to the validity of any such claims. However, when you consider the fact that Wing Chun trains to attack the centerline it makes one wonder a bit. Of course it oculd be that the center is harder to recover from and that it is easier to dissipate force to the side :)
Still, I believe there is some validity to point hitting. I know that I have been quite lucky with using different pressure points, when I was a cop. I feel that the sensitivity one gains in Wing Chun can directly carry over to point hitting and locking. But hey, that's just my opinion.
What is the exact title of the video?...and who is it by? Can anyone comment?
07-05-2001, 07:51 PM
All the Dim Mak techniques of Wing Chun are hidden in the secret 4th empty hand set...
Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...
07-05-2001, 08:08 PM
Did you here this name on the Rien Bul's site?
Heres the link...
07-05-2001, 08:13 PM
If you are really interested there is a guy from the WCML located in Long Island, NY. If you send me your email address I will be glad to forward it one to him. I will not promise anything as it will be up to him whether or not he replies. However, there is a Friendship seminar tentatively scheduled for about 1 1/2 years from now in the NYC area. I am sure he will be present if this takes place.
He did a seminar on Dim Mak and point hitting sometime last year and I think he may have even videod the event. Not sure but I do not think the video is available.
07-05-2001, 08:27 PM
Why is it that I prefer the good old centerline attacks way of delivering a strike?...Is it because wing chun,simple as it is, is already difficult enough to master?...I prefer to leave that Dim Mak business to those who like to complicate their lives and strive for a good punch instead!...Just my opinion! ;)
07-05-2001, 11:58 PM
yeah, i was thinking along the same lines as old jong. I mean if it takes so long to master a system that is so "simple" as WC..then it must take forever to master a more complex system of MA's.
Guys and gals,
Point hitting is in the WC system. It's built into everything we do. Study up on Traditional Chinese Medicine and examine an accupuncture chart. Look at where the centerline falls. See all those vital points on the centerline? What do you think you are aiming at? When you hit the sternum with your jik chung choi, you'r hitting points CV15 and/or CV17. When you kick at the knee you are hitting points like KI 10, LV 8, or SP 9. Vital point hitting isn't anything esoteric like hitting someone on the right toe with your left pinkie. The targets we aim to hit ARE the vital points, it's just that the knowledge has been lost over time because one has to have an understanding of TCM. Leung Jan was a chinese medicine doctor and has a chart of vital points. If you look at the chart, even the simple pak sau to the forearm is hitting TH 9. These points are hit in certain combinations based upon TCM and 5 element theory, but the progression of hitting the combinations is also built into the system. There's lots to be said on this subject if you just do some research and/or find a qualified Sifu.
BTW, Dave I was at the Dim Mak Seminar in Long Island last year and it was a good seminar that explained a lot of things to the lay person. I am fortunate enough that my Sifu has a background in TCM and that he has covered it in class so I was exposed to the theories and points before the seminar.
dave the dragon
07-08-2001, 11:48 AM
Does anybody know a web site whereI can obtain a full accupuncture chart as i would like to have a look for myself
07-08-2001, 01:07 PM
Hello Dave the Dragon :cool:
Here is a link to a site with a chart. Not sure if this is what you are looking for but it is a start.
dave the dragon
07-08-2001, 06:25 PM
thanks a lot dave
that site is excellent there a lot of info and i think that it will come in very useful
07-09-2001, 02:25 AM
...all without leaving the centerline. If that isn't enough, drift out a few inches, you'll find their eyes and possibly their knees.
To paraphrase Wang Xiangzhai, "doesn't really matter where you hit them, if you hit them hard enough." :D
07-09-2001, 08:24 AM
Does it seem to anyone else like EVERYTHING is a pressure point according to acupunture charts? No offense, but I am probably hit 100 times with a hard pak sao every time I go to Wing Chun practice, and I have never felt dehibilitating effects as one would expect from a "Dim Mak" technique. Same with ANY block.
"Life is hard, but so am I." -- The Eels.
Knowing the points is only one part of the equation. The other part is in hitting the right points in the right sequence following the guidelines of traditional chinese medicine and five element theory. Each point is associated with an element and an organ and a meridian. You can hit multiple points of the same element, organ, or meridian to overload that particular system or you can hit complimentary elements, organs, or meridians. For example, when you hit CV 17 which is located at the sternum you are hitting a major intersection of the meridians. When you use your chain punching and hit that spot three times you are also overloading it. It's hitting the right points under the guideline of these principles that 'activates' these points and incapacitates the opponent. This is not some fancy knock you out in 3 taps that you might see at a seminar. THis is overloading the body's system so things shut down causing internal injury etc. depending upon what you hit. That is just a simple case, but you can also apply the principle to a pak da where you hit a point on the arm and hit a point at the throat or head. Both cases use overload and hitting similar meridians/elements to 'activate' the points. If you just do your WC properly you are hitting the points already. These points govern different functions of the body and hitting them can cause detrimental effects just as using accupuncture can cure certain effects.
The points are everywhere but you don't 'activate' them by just bumping into the table (although it could hurt) just like you can't heal with accupuncture by just hitting one point at random.
Again, knowing the points is not enough. Some study of traditional chinese medicine is needed to fully bring out the knowledge.
07-09-2001, 06:44 PM
"The other part is in hitting the right points in the right sequence following the guidelines of traditional chinese medicine and five element theory. "
Yeah, didn't you see Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, the bad guy goes *bip*bip*bip* and freezes up his attacker, then Chow Fat goes *bep*bep*bep* and unfreezes him ;)
Seriously though, it's good to be aware of major sensitive areas, and practice striking with precision. I'm not at a point in my study where I feel I can work on advanced things, heck, just getting my punches in at all is still challenging :D
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. "
- Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
dave the dragon
07-10-2001, 04:46 PM
i would be interested in aquiring some literiture on the 5 element theory when applied to the anatomy if any body knows any web sites that provide any.
ona quest for knowledge so to speak!
07-13-2001, 12:48 AM
As far as I know Yip Man never taught any type of dim mak in wing chun. I'm not too sure about other Wing Chun lineages. That's not saying it never existed, but that he never taught it. Wing Chun is a style that lacks certain qualities other more traditional (and older) Chinese Martial Arts have, such as pressure point hitting, Chin Na and chi development.
It is true that many teachers say that dim mak techniques are hidden in biu tze but then again anything in any form can be adapted to fit with one's theories, such as hidden groundfighting techniques in forms and such
Many Wing Chun practioners now advocate chi development by concentrating on the dan tien in forms and such but that's just adding stuff in. Many systems such as Hung Gar's iron wire set and White Eyebrow are built on concepts of internal energy for fighting and pressure point hitting. There are styles that encompass such things which are an integral part of those systems and then there are styles which try to encompass those things later on...
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