Boxer Rebellion Kung Fu Style

[Dim Wit Mak]

Years ago I read that the "Boxers" of 1900 fame entered the famous rebellion having many kung fu styles. Some didn't know any kung fu, and there was an attempt by the leaders to take some of the most direct and easiest to learn techiniques from many different styles and teach this as a new system. In the article, the style that was formed was given a name, but I don't remember what it was. Can anyone enlighten me as to what it was called, and if it is still taught and practiced? Thanks in advance.

[Shaolinlueb]

hmm i would like some more info on this too. anyone?

[Dim Wit Mak]

Shaolinlueb: I know the article was in the magazine which is the rival to the one that sponsors this forum, but I can't find it anywhere.

[Mr Punch]

Wing Chump. It's practised everywhere... :D

but not in my school of course... :rolleyes:

I don't have one!:p

[IronFist]

I thought the boxer rebellion was when all those kung fu guys got owned by guns?

[SifuAbel]

Uh, not that simple. It was a brutal fight that they eventually lost. And, it was more than one battle on more than one day.

[Dim Wit Mak]

If the history books are to be believed (and I'm not sure that is true), one of the biggest lies of this historical event was where the leaders told the rank and file that magical talismans would protect them from gunfire. I have read that these leaders even had their homies fire blanks at them to "prove" their claims.

I don't suppose this was any different than the lies that were told to sailors during World War II about the effectiveness of the "shark repellent" they were issued. I understand that the powers that be knew it was about as effective as Gillette shaving cream, but it gave the sailors some peace of mind before Jaws had them for lunch. I guess all of us have to be aware to keep from being a gullible chump.

[Mr Punch]

Well I've never heard of a shark eating Gillette shaving foam. :D


Apart from the amulet thing, the boxers were no heros either. Most of them were just bands of rapists, bandits and gangsters wandering the country trying to jump on the anti-British rule bandwagon and tricking some people into joining them on that pretext before more lies and extortion. Bit like the Bush administration and the War on Terror (uh-oh, there goes this thread! :D ) or, er, many modern MA 'teachers'.

[MasterKiller]

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CHING/BOXER.HTM
The Boxers, or "The Righteous and Harmonious Fists," were a religious society that had originally rebelled against the imperial government in Shantung in 1898. They practiced an animistic magic of rituals and spells which they believed made them impervious to bullets and pain. The Boxers believed that the expulsion of foreign devils would magically renew Chinese society and begin a new golden age. Much of their discontent, however, was focussed on the economic scarcity of the 1890's. They were a passionate and confident group, full of contempt for authority and violent emotions.

[Ren Blade]

It sounds like the White Lotus Clan from Once Upon A Time In China 2. Is that what these group of characters from the movie were based upon, the boxers of the rebellion or "The Righteous and Harmonious Fists"?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Ren Blade
It sounds like the White Lotus Clan from Once Upon A Time In China 2. Is that what these group of characters from the movie were based upon, the boxers of the rebellion or "The Righteous and Harmonious Fists"?

The White Lotus would again make an appearance in the 1890s. A branch sect called the I Ho Ch’uan (Fists in the Name of Harmony and Justice) began a serious anti- foreigner rebellion in response to the humiliations suffered by China at the hands of European and American powers. The Europeans would later call this band of rebels the Boxers.

http://www.ibiblio.org/chinesehistory/contents/c11sa03.html

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Ren Blade
It sounds like the White Lotus Clan from Once Upon A Time In China 2. Is that what these group of characters from the movie were based upon, the boxers of the rebellion or "The Righteous and Harmonious Fists"?

Yep. And as I understand it (which is a big disclaimer) Wong Fei Hung was opposed to the foreign occupation of China, but believed that the secret societies were making the problem worse rather than better. Could be wrong about that though.

I don't think the boxers had a particular brand of fu though, Dim Wit Mak. I don't think style had a whole lot to do with it really. It had more to do with the "magical" amulets and wards. Convincing an uneducated populace that they would be protected if they rose up and fought back. I think it had more to do with control than with style.

And whether you believe the history books or no, one thing is clear. They lost. That's not a slight against individual brave Chinese though. It's simply that they were outclassed.

Again, though, I'm no historian.


Stuart B.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by apoweyn
It's simply that they were outclassed. They lost, but I don't think they were outclassed. I find it hard to assign 'class' to a group of countries that intentionally created a nation of drug addicts and murdered 200,000 people in the name of colonialism.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
They lost, but I don't think they were outclassed. I find it hard to assign 'class' to a group of countries that intentionally created a nation of drug addicts and murdered 200,000 people in the name of colonialism.

For crying out loud, Masterkiller. Don't make me pull the dictionary quote trick. You know as well as I do that that's not what "outclassed" means. Semantic arguments make the baby Jesus cry.

Pedantry aside, I agree wholeheartedly with your point. Indenturing one nation (India) to produce narcotics to hook another nation on (China) just so you'll have something to trade for what they've got is low class.


Stuart B.

[red5angel]

yeah Ap, just because your parents are british doesn't mean you get to stomp all over the other people of the world an dtheir rights. You can' t just imply that Indians are a lower class then the brits, just cause their skin is different or they aren't edumacated like the brits. Jeeze, the elitism flying around this forum is insane! ;)

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by apoweyn
Semantic arguments make the baby Jesus cry.That's not what Mel Gibson says.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
That's not what Mel Gibson says.

And you trust him?

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by red5angel
yeah Ap, just because your parents are british doesn't mean you get to stomp all over the other people of the world an dtheir rights. You can' t just imply that Indians are a lower class then the brits, just cause their skin is different or they aren't edumacated like the brits. Jeeze, the elitism flying around this forum is insane! ;)

My parents are British, huh? I'll have you know that I was born and raised to the age of 10 in Great Britain, thank you very much. Brackley, Northamptonshire. :D

But yeah, there's not a whole lot to recommend the Empire's behavior in India and China. :(

[red5angel]

oh yeah MY PARENTs are british, never mind you smarmy brit!

[norther practitioner]

I'll have you know that I was born and raised to the age of 10 in Great Britain

Explains why you can be such a pansy :eek: :p

thank you very much

You are very welcome.



As far as the style is concerned, I have no idea, but I'll put hung gar out there.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
oh yeah MY PARENTs are british, never mind you smarmy brit!
Originally posted by apoweyn
My parents are British, huh? I'll have you know that I was born and raised to the age of 10 in Great Britain, thank you very much. Brackley, Northamptonshire.
My grandparents moved here from Scotland. Now I have two reasons to clobber both of you.

[red5angel]

that practically makes us brothers MK. My family descends from Scottish border reavers but eventually took jobs as landsmen and caretakers in wales and Brittain. Down with the MAN!!!

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
that practically makes us brothers MK. My family descends from Scottish border reavers but eventually took jobs as landsmen and caretakers in wales and Brittain. Down with the MAN!!! Yeah, Mel Gibson hates England, too. Coincidence? I think not!

[Vash]

Scotland kicks @$$. Britain suxors it. Coincidence?

[kwaichang kaned]

Whilst not my favorite subject of all time.

Scotland IS part of Britain. The British Isles

I think you may be confusing Britain with England.

And NOBODY likes England.

(to the tune of "we are sailing")

No one likes us
No one likes us
No one likes us
WE DON'T CARE

[apoweyn]

Explains why you can be such a pansy

And yet completely fails to excuse it. :)

[Ben Gash]

Oh dear :rolleyes: Where do we start? :eek:
OK, as I have already stated on another thread (and admittedly has been more than hinted at here) the boxers (on the whole) were not martial artists. They were what are known as "spirit boxers", who believed that they were possessed by totem spirits, and this would make them impervious to gunfire.
Second, why are the Brits getting bashed here? The British empire didn't rule china, it ruled Hong Kong (which was nowhere near the rebellion).Yes, the opium wars were a dark stain on our history, but was it really any worse than enslaving people in their thousands and forcing them to build a railway in concentration camp conditions? (pot/kettle). The USA, Portugal and Germany were all caught up in the boxer rebellion.
As for the Empire, yes there were bad things about it, but there were good things as well. I mean, India and Hong Kong were both under such liberal, tolerant, politically free regimes beforehand. Also, incidentally, they were ruled by a non-indigenous ruling class :rolleyes: who had empires themselves.
Yes, Mel Gibson does appear to hate the English. Try reading a history book instead. William Wallace was a decidedly wealthy landowner who didn't like paying tax, and the average Scottish peasant was no worse off than the average English peasant (except that the English peasant had to worry about being massacred by the Scots)

[Ben Gash]

NP, loads of Hung Gar in Shandong ;)

[red5angel]

Ben, it's all tongue in cheek really. My mom's a brit, Ap is apparently a brit, so somehow we are al mostly or atleast related to some limey somewhere ;)
If we wanted to bash someone for real I'd say we'd be bashing Spain, they suck.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Ben Gash
Yes, the opium wars were a dark stain on our history, but was it really any worse than enslaving people in their thousands and forcing them to build a railway in concentration camp conditions? (pot/kettle). The USA, Portugal and Germany were all caught up in the boxer rebellion. Yeah, that's why I said Group of Countries.

As for the Empire, yes there were bad things about it, but there were good things as well. I mean, India and Hong Kong were both under such liberal, tolerant, politically free regimes beforehand. Also, incidentally, they were ruled by a non-indigenous ruling class :rolleyes: who had empires themselves.Okaaaaaaay.

Yes, Mel Gibson does appear to hate the English. Try reading a history book instead. William Wallace was a decidedly wealthy landowner who didn't like paying tax, and the average Scottish peasant was no worse off than the average English peasant (except that the English peasant had to worry about being massacred by the Scots) Mel Gibson doesn't think Southern styles are very practical. He prefers higher stances and long power.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Ben Gash
Oh dear :rolleyes: Where do we start? :eek:
OK, as I have already stated on another thread (and admittedly has been more than hinted at here) the boxers (on the whole) were not martial artists. They were what are known as "spirit boxers", who believed that they were possessed by totem spirits, and this would make them impervious to gunfire.

That's what I'd understood as well. Which is why I said that the rebellion was less about a martial arts style than about controlling a populace.

Second, why are the Brits getting bashed here? The British empire didn't rule china, it ruled Hong Kong (which was nowhere near the rebellion).Yes, the opium wars were a dark stain on our history, but was it really any worse than enslaving people in their thousands and forcing them to build a railway in concentration camp conditions? (pot/kettle). The USA, Portugal and Germany were all caught up in the boxer rebellion.
As for the Empire, yes there were bad things about it, but there were good things as well. I mean, India and Hong Kong were both under such liberal, tolerant, politically free regimes beforehand. Also, incidentally, they were ruled by a non-indigenous ruling class :rolleyes: who had empires themselves.
Yes, Mel Gibson does appear to hate the English. Try reading a history book instead. William Wallace was a decidedly wealthy landowner who didn't like paying tax, and the average Scottish peasant was no worse off than the average English peasant (except that the English peasant had to worry about being massacred by the Scots)

Well, personally, I said that there wasn't much to recommend Britain's behavior in India and China. The fact that other groups have done similar things doesn't really change that.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that I'm not bashing Great Britain. I'm proud of what little British I can still claim.


Stuart B.

[Dim Wit Mak]

It's hard for me to believe that there wasn't a concerted effort to teach some rudimentary kung fu to the "Boxers". I have seen old film clips of these guys practicing with swords, and doing what are obvious kung fu movements. I'm not saying they were dedicated martial artists, but they were called "Boxers" by the Europeans, because they observed these movements and the "White Devils" didn't have any idea what "kung fu" was. Of course, there was a lot of magic and superstition connected with it, but I really believe, that simple kung fu was taught on a rather large scale. I don't want to be obstinate, but the finger seems to point in that direction.

It would be interesting to get ahold of some primary sources, i.e. letters or telegrams written by the beseiged foreigners and read their first hand accounts. Amid the accounts of horror, there has to be attempted descriptions of how they fought. At any rate, since that is the limit of my knowledge, I'll just put my comments to rest with this post.

[apoweyn]

I don't think anybody is disputing that they were taught some basic martial arts. I think the point that people are trying to make is that those martial arts were a fairly minor variable amid many other variables (nationalism, lack of education, manipulation of the masses, faith, etc.).

As for specific styles, I'd guess that people learned whatever was readily available to them. And that there wasn't one specific Boxer Rebellion style. (And frankly, would you really want to learn it if there were? They got gunned down. And guns have gotten more advanced since then. Not less so.)

Edit: The above was somewhat tongue in cheek. Firearms will ruin anybody's day. Style be ****ed.

Edit again: Style be gosh darned. :rolleyes:

All that said, I seem to recall something about hung gar and about their characteristic hand formation (the kiu sau or something) being used as a "secret handshake" to other society members or something like that. But be careful. That could just be over-romanticized (or misremembered) rubbish. I'm not historian enough to know for sure.


Stuart B.

[kungfu cowboy]

Secret handshakes allow the "secret palm tickle" which is just a socially acceptable form of asking "Are you into manlove?"

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by kungfu cowboy
Secret handshakes allow the "secret palm tickle" which is just a socially acceptable form of asking "Are you into manlove?" Kungfu Cowboy sounds like he's been in a college fraternity or three.

[red5angel]

I think KFcowboy is just finally coming out of the closet.

[kungfu cowboy]

LOL, MK!:D

R5A, that's just wishful thinking!:p

[red5angel]

well if you look anything like your avatar pretty boy ;)

[Shaolinlueb]

wait, didnt the boxers use cannons and guns? i swear i saw pcitures of the with cannon's strolling through the mud. i dont know about the guns though.

[FIRE HAWK]

Iron Ox Southern Mantis was used in the Boxer Rebelion it was taught to the Boxers by the founder of Iron Ox Southern Mantis Choi Dit Ngau or Iron Ox Choi , Iron Ox Southern Mantis is the fourth version of Southern Mantis and is a Hakka art .

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
wait, didnt the boxers use cannons and guns? i swear i saw pcitures of the with cannon's strolling through the mud. i dont know about the guns though.

Perhaps. But "CannonerRebellion" is too hard to say.

[Shaolindynasty]

The boxer rebellion was the result of several different problems in China. Religion played a part to. Also there was a big drought that was causing allot of people to starve to death and some believed the drought was because of the forgien pressence in China. I read a book called the three keys (I think but i'm to lazy to get up and check). The empress also instigated the boxers. It all came to a head during a battle in 1900 in the forbidden city. It's really interesting really. The book also had some letters from british and americans who witnessed the battles and said it seemed the boxers wouldn't die. One said the boxer kept getting up after getting shot and charging forward. It kinda reminds me of the end to last samurai. Similar situations

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by apoweyn


Yep. I think it had more to do with control than with style.

Stuart B.

so again..just to be clear, what we're really talking about are Iron skills...and I wasn't there but go figure that westerners would say such things about the funny little yellow guys with the funny eyes ( no offence to my asian friends and which just for the record I personally find extremely attractive) fighting in the robes with funny pendants and statues......


didn't alot of those folks flee to the hills and come back to give us our kungfu we have now.....sounds obvious to say, but just want to make sure we're on the same page

how is that a loss....the culture lives on and check shaolin out for comeback of the millenium!! The abbot is doing, has done and will continue to put in big time to weed out western influences (which I believe the temple accepted with this exact senario in mind once the dust settled and lives were no longer in danger) and bring shaolin back to its tradition roots. ..and the guy is that amiable that he even plans to offer westerners official first time in history opportunity to indocrinate and join the temple.....just so there's no hard feelings....can't arguewith that logic

( but I'm pretty sure someone here'll try ;) :p

[apoweyn]

so again..just to be clear, what we're really talking about are Iron skills...and I wasn't there but go figure that westerners would say such things about the funny little yellow guys with the funny eyes ( no offence to my asian friends and which just for the record I personally find extremely attractive) fighting in the robes with funny pendants and statues......


didn't alot of those folks flee to the hills and come back to give us our kungfu we have now.....sounds obvious to say, but just want to make sure we're on the same page

We are so not on the same page. What are you talking about? Iron skills? Westerners talking about funny little Asian guys? Gah?!

You quoted my comment on control. I'm referring to the control by Chinese rebels on Chinese rebels. The higher ups convincing the lower downs that they were protected from foreign gunfire.


Stuart B.

[Vash]

All of a sudden, I'm reminded of the thread about the guy who dropped like four hits of acid.