View Full Version : boxing vs kung fu
08-28-2000, 10:06 PM
ive done both martial arts and have to say boxing is the better of the too i did wing chun kung fu and shaolin gung fu boxing works better on the street what do you think?
I think you should learn punctuation.
seriously though, boxing is a good art and if it works for you, fine.
08-29-2000, 09:09 AM
Boxing- punching, footwork /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Kung Fu- Punching, footwork, elbows, Hand attacks, Chokes, Trapping, Kicking, Knees, Joint Locks, Throwing, Grappling.
Yep boxing wins again.
[This message has been edited by 8stepsifu (edited 08-30-2000).]
[This message has been edited by 8stepsifu (edited 09-10-2000).]
08-31-2000, 08:41 AM
Depends on whether we are talking aobut boxing as a sport or as self defense. As a sport boxing is an excellent exercise and will train one well for fighting. However, there are limitations as one fights under various rules. As a self defense art boxing is one to command respect. Still, to downplay some of the CMA's is a think a bit short-sighted. Boxing has a limited arsenal and does not train for the diversity found in many CMA's. Also, boxing as a method of defnse against weapons is limited in scope as well.
This is to take nothign from boxers. Pound for pound I feel they are some of the strongest punchers, particularily in the early stages of training. In other words they learn to hit harder faster. Still, there are plenty of CMA that can hit just as hard. Where boxers have a great advantage, at least IMHO, is in the taking and receiving of blows. Boxers train to exchange blows and are use to contact. Many MA's do not prepare for contact and thus have a possible weakness in this area.
Against a well trained MA I think the boxer will fall a little short. Still, it is a formidible system and worth exploration.
08-31-2000, 10:27 PM
Boxing is like wrestling and other western sports. They are martial arts, except that they've been defanged for social competition. They're practical, can work great and the emphasis lies more in your athletic ability to execute the same basic techniques, not necessarily in the technique itself. So, the basic learning curve is fairly short. You can get pretty good pretty fast, assuming you have the athletic ability. The bigger, stronger, faster, younger opponent will usually thus win.
"True" martial arts seeks the exact opposite - using various methods that can neutralize or overcome different advantages in physical traits. At least in theory.
I would like to try boxing, to learn the art of the punch. However, it is far from a complete art. Obviously, no kicking, throws, joint-locks or grappling. Also, it can train you to develop bad habits like always closed-fist punching - which can hurt you more than your opponent if you hit him, say, in the skull. That's how Mike Tyson broke his hand the last time he was in a bar fight.
09-01-2000, 06:36 AM
My Grandfather was a boxer in the marine corps and was fairly good. Before he past he taught me a little. This little bit he taught me has come into use on the street. Also for the past two years I have trained in kung fu san soo which is a great combat art. It concentrates on striking to your opponents vitals. But since high school, when my grandfather showed me how to throw a left hook and an over the top right, I am constantly walking through the house throwing my arms around. Then when I started san soo everything is beinng used. What Im trying to get to is to mix them together. I have been in a few street fights and most of them I end up throwing my right out there. I'm not bragging but I have developed my right very well. And if you throw it quick enough, put your hhip into it and do not pro-ject it will usually be a one hit fight. But do not forget that ten percent of the population is trainned.
09-06-2000, 03:24 AM
I just have one issue with what was said. I love boxing and while I'm not great boxer I do have some experince.
Origenx said that in boxing the bigger, faster, more athletic person wins. That is true if both people are trained boxers!! But I think that is true of most combat type arts. I have never met a boxing coach that said to match force with force. The whole point of boxing is to hit your opponent and not get hit yourself. A much smaller well trained boxer can knock out a much larger untrained fighter rather easily. I've seen it.
I look at boxing as a very soft art in a way. Things like staying relaxed at all times and using motion to make your opponent miss rather then absorbing his energy with a block. (not that blocks arent used but they are not prefered)
One more thing... Traing athleticly makes you more athletic even if you weren't to start. Some people have better natural gifts then others but just because your not naturally gifted doesn't mean you can not develop yourself body and mind.
09-06-2000, 03:27 AM
I do totally agree with its limited scope however. I look at it as a part of the total of fighting.
(I dont want to use the word crosstraining as the flames will surely fly)
09-07-2000, 12:03 AM
I dont think that boxing is much of a soft art. You bob and weave to dodge punches then strike when your opponent has left himself prone. Or juke him into thinking you are going to give some body shot and his hands will likely drop to his body then you lay into his face. I think that is how most little guys are able to put big guys on their back.
09-07-2000, 01:42 AM
Well thats why I say soft in a way. Your two examples are perfect examples of using strategy to overcome brawn.
09-07-2000, 07:56 AM
boxing is cool, but its way more harsh than san shou or kickboxing. At least in those others there are more target and more things to consider than just headhunting. As for the sport, I don't like the naussua and sick feeling after I fight. My fave is NHB style. Much more possibility and overextension is quickly punished. I think I'd like boxing more if you could grab and backfist.
09-10-2000, 01:41 AM
Master Po - that is true. I think MA are great for cross-training into other sports. Like, so far it's really helped my b-ball game! I've become noticeably better! You can apply many of the same concepts!
But anyways, take a look at how most of the boxers have fared in the UFC and you'll realize their weakness. They are very narrow specialists that are very good at that little that they do - namely only punching only in punching range. But outside of that they are like fish out of water. You can fend them off with kicks. And, you can pass right thru punching range very quickly into trapping and wrestling range. Or just stay out of it.
All you have to do is stay out of punching range - either ****her out or closer in. (Of course, in cases where you might start out there or get stuck there - say in a crowded bar, he might get off the first and last blow!) But yes, in sports with rules, the Master wins. But in real-life, it's the jack-of-all-trades that has the advantage.
09-11-2000, 12:06 AM
"But yes, in sports with rules, the Master
wins. But in real-life, it's the jack-of-all-trades that has the advantage."
Accually I couldn't agree with you more!!
Many UFC big names have boxing in their background. The first name that comes to mind is Vitor Belfort. He is a Carlson Gracie blackbelt and is called a BJJ fighter but wins the majority of his fights with boxing skills. (he tried out for the olimpic boxing team but didn't make it). Others like Dave Abbott, Randy Couture, and Don Frye use a lot of boxing in their personal styles. Also a lot of Muay Thai guys include some western boxing into their training to help develop their punching abilities.
Like you said, boxers are great at what they do but are limited to one range. Still a good boxer can be very tough to deal with!
09-11-2000, 12:33 AM
I don't think guys like Tank Abott, and Randy Couture, have any formal boxing training, I think it's more of an influence on their striking, becuase of the amount of exposure that boxing has in the world. Of course I could be wrong.
I know Belfort is a boxer, and was criticized (sp?) for the amount of boxing that he used for being considered a bjj fighter. So in the UFC Japan, he used only grappling skills and won his fight, just to prove that he could do it. He even had many opportunities to rain the punches down, or at least a couple of shots to soften his opponent, but he didn't even go for them. I don't know what that had to do with this thread, though. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
09-11-2000, 06:12 AM
I do not fear the 1000 kicks you have practiced once, I fear the 1 kick you have practiced 1000 times
I think the reason many people feel they get more out of boxing is due to the fact that boxing generally has more repetition training. You go to a school and work on your jabs for weeks or even months. When you're done you can jab like a mother ****er. Traditionally, in kung fu, you would practice horse stance and two punches if you were lucky for 3 months. Not many people would keep up with it under those circumstances. However, a good teacher will still make the training so repititious initially that it almost seems dumb unless you realize why he's doing it.
09-11-2000, 11:07 PM
Great point gunned...
By the way... Randy Couture has trained extensivly with JKD teacher Matt Thorton and credits Matt with helping him win UFC. If you know anything about Matt you know there is a lot of western boxing in his JKD. Of couse Randy was an olimpic metal winner in Greco-roman and that is his primary style but I have heard several interviews where he gives Matt's JKD a lot of the credit too.
09-12-2000, 02:52 AM
Strike one for me /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I guess he didn't work as hard on how to punch, just the when. I know his punches were still pretty solid, it's just that he used way more arm than he needed to. he could have easily punched himself out that way.
If he put more body into the punches he would have had more speed and power, and he could have possibly ended the fight quicker.
Then again he is a wrestler, and he did win, so my point is moot. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
09-12-2000, 09:48 AM
a martial artist who has been in as many fights as a boxer is usually look up to so much because it is unusual. the boxer may have fewer skills than the martial artist, but he has better command of what he knows. while the martial artist can usually only demonstrate it or apply it under a little pressure, the boxer has use his stuff many times under such a heavy pressure, he has no nervousness going into a fight. only a fighter who have been there many times can understand this. the boxer on the average is more conditioned, he can accept punches to the face more, he can fight when he is exhausted, he can stand up while he is daze from a punch, and he have better reflexes to take advantage of his opponent weakness. he has more expereince in fighting, while, yes he does have fewer techniques. he uses them very well.
if the martial artist trains the same way, and competes or spar as many rounds as the boxer my money is on the martial artist.
i dont beleive in the style _or_ the man more than i believe in the training method he use and his amount of experience.
as far a boxers in the UFC, give me a break! those guys are not boxers--even _good_ martial artist! just because a ******* knows how to punch and kick he is GOOD with his hands and feet? bull****! i heard one announcer say hoyce gracie is showing he knows to use his hands and feet, yeah right take away his grappling and i will bet my life on one of my intermediate kickboxers against him.
maurice smith is the only person i have seen there who was good at punching and kicking, and you look at the K-1 you see he is not even one of the best anymore. what do you think filho or hoost will do in there?
if a guy truly learn to box or do martial arts as well as grapple he will do good every time. oops got off the subject. the boxers method of training and learning is superior to the martial artist traditional, so my money is on the boxer 99% of the time.
09-12-2000, 10:28 PM
Yeah, I haven't seen any decent kickers in the UFCs (at least the first few). Most LOOKED like they had very poor form and telegraphed a mile away.
But, I hesitate to backseat-fight in the UFC b/c maybe they're actually a lot better kickers than they appear on TV.
09-12-2000, 10:29 PM
lee-JKD - how does Shaolin gung fu boxing differ from Western boxing? What are its concepts?
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