SLT and Fajing

[Phenix]

Heaven always send me some one to see un intentionly, While Travelling, meeting different people and get more Data.

I am convice now. It is very very very very likely that the SLT/SNT, from our Ancestors of Red Boat, Does includes Fajing and very internal.
( Politely Disclaim: applied only to red boat ancestors's art)

White Crane components are again look very likely to be verified to be involve in the SLT/SNT fajing key. With this finding, the creation of SLT might be closer to 1800 or at the begining of 1800. then early 1700.

YJKYM is not as simple as it looks since certain dynamic Fajing key are hidden within it. and verified................... certainly Hung Kuen or IRon wire type of YJKYM look very very likely to be rule out.



SLT/SNT is a cute, powerfull, metelic Blue Boxter S.
Small but has all things needed for slick handling , agile, and power bust......

we are getting close and close to see what happen .....
the day we all can drive that metalic blue Boxter S around should be not to long. is Diaz's eyes blue?
:D

Certainly, it is a thanks giving to heaven!
Until next time. when I am back..... sweet dream



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the sky opened up for me,
And the mountains disappeared,
If the seas ran dry, turned to dust
And the sun refused to rise
I would still find my way,
By the light I see in your eyes.
The world I know fades away
But you (SLT) stay.

[yuanfen]

Hendrik sez:
White Crane components are again look very likely to be verified to be involve in the SLT/SNT fajing key. With this finding, the creation of SLT might be closer to 1800 or at the begining of 1800. then early 1700.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik- how did you arrive at the chronological marking of fajing?
Do most wing chun people know what fajing is- besides as a word?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik- how did you arrive at the chronological marking of fajing?
Do most wing chun people know what fajing is- besides as a word?


Joy,

Very quick.

White Crane evol in thier use of Strength such as the "join strength inch Jing".....
So, we can time stamp how things evol.
and there are different jing DNA from different style of CMA which we can identify.

As for Fajing, IMHO, in very very general, not apply to everyone, there are some background has to be go through....

need the key to start that metalic blue boxter S.
and need to go to through the boxter S turbo activation operating manual.
a powerfull turbo engine can do harm to both the car and the trafic. if it is not handle with care.

detail Breathing pattern and YJKYM dynamic needs to be switched to activate that turbo force.... and that is not recomended for everyone.



Until next time. Bye...

[ZIM]

Heaven always send me some one to see un intentionly, While Travelling, meeting different people and get more Data.
You ran into a White crane person while traveling? How very nice! :) Tell us more.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by ZIM

You ran into a White crane person while traveling? How very nice! :) Tell us more.


there is a story about Wang Xiang-Chai the founder of Yee Chuan travel around China to test his art.

And, story said that Wang Tie with a White Crane fujian martial artist.

I begun to check into what make possible of White Crane Tie with Wang. Since Wang was extremely advance in real life matches track records.

so,
the search begin many years ago about what make the White Crane possible to tie, since I am eage to know relatively how WCK stand....



Since the match of those advance guys usually ended not more then few contacts and the changes is within inches and the energy "turbo-ing" as they drawn it.... it is far refine then those time, space concept or static structure or southern Kiu sau type of manual.... as we can seen from the record. Wang always send people flying in the instance of the contact. strict pure technical speaking.


So,,,, long story :D.....

That lead me to go into trying to understanding about 1, Chan.. 2, fajing..... 3, application characteristics..... ect

1, So, for Chan....awareness.. trying to understand what is going on. from China to Japan samurai, people going to Zen century ago because they thought there might be something in Zen which can give them magic. and by Miyamoto Mushasi time. Zen has already influence on Japanese Sword art.

what I find out with lots of gurus' help is that.
Time link with thought. Space link with "silence"..... and how "noisy" the thought and the level of "silence" varies person to person and even mood to mood or even day to day.
thus, time and space are very not likely to be a good reference while traveling into advance. because the Observer is inconsistance.

The cultivation of effortless alertness/awareness which is flex-flowing or non attach or non stuck flow to non duality seems to be the path to advance art --- magic.

But then, that get into a paradox. once one get into the non duality. there is no seperate observer and the object to be observed. So, where is the enermy or Qing when there is no Me and Chinese?
Thus, I always argue about once people brought up the over turn the Qing. That art is doom into duality. Can't be that advance.

(don't believe me?
let say in the the Chan sutra.
Sen Siu wrote " Body is bodhi tree, mind is the mirror, always clean it, so that it doesn't stick dust."
while Hui Neng wrote " Body is not bodhi tree, mind is not mirror, there is NOT "A" Thing, how is it stick dust?"
and Hui Neng becomes the 6th patriach not Sen Siu who still stuck in duality, body, mind, cleaning mirror, there is mirror there is dust, there is Sen Siu, there is time,, time is one of rupa spoken in the Varja prajna paramita sutra....)

That state of Non-duality, be it in Osense of Aikido or in Wang Xiang-Chai of Yee Chuan..... or TaiJi's Wu Ji or Sun Lu-Dang.... might explain why advance martial artists become the cultivator of Dao the more they travel the path wanting to acquire that magic. And, it seems that when one get that Magic. the art transform into Compassionate. what matter from an individual's win or best fighter now become "what can I serve human being to become better." a strange path. But then may be, What can I serve human being to become better is a better path then I am the best I am invicinble....


2, So, for Jing...energy manupulation.... force with path issuing.... that lead me into medirians, Chakras, kundalini...... breathing....
and what I find out it that if the "body both internal and external" is not "soft enough" and flex flow enough. Internal injury will be cause if one tries to turbo the power.
the term flex flow appear here. I believe that mind and body are partner and following the same rule.

On the other hand, energy is energy... we can explain with different term if one doesn't like Qi or Chakras..... that is not important. those are terms. the important thing is can we reproduce the result.... and we have to accept the existance of a different diamention which we call it qi or kundalini..... ofcause there is influence from muscle and joins and... but lots of things coexist... iMHO



IMHO,
it seems that White Crane has influence Yee Chuan in certain way, perhaps the match between Wang and White Crane is real not just a story.

and strange things that SLT, White Crace, Yee Chuan share some characteristics.... and the "snake " E12P comes to play because the "soft enough" internally and externally requirement.


Furthermore, say "soft enough" when applied to breathing. ask ourself, do we breath with noise? do we stop breathing? one has to be really honest with oneself, because same with turbo of boxter S. turbo needs clean combustion and if the breathing stuck. it can damage internal organs due to long term localized pressure or short term bust.....

IMHO, I never belive in those Standing post or TaiJi with only external shape or movement...... a boxer or wrestler with good breathing will sure better then a Standing tree hugger who can't breath disregard of how many years one train.

so, only when one is totally free or flex flow or soft enough... in mind and body, the turbo will begin. otherwise, it will stuck somewhere.



don't know why I always got data from those white crane and Yee Chuan practitioners... who I have no idea of but inspire me to convince myself SLT has "it". may be that has to do with reincarnation and pass live experience... same with Eddy Murphy's Haunted House's incident. :D


Some is tired of me speaking history. :D
But, May be, just may be, the history study is just trying to find out where the ancestors of the red boat keep the key of that Metalic Blue Boxter S 2004. I really don't care if Rene tell me it is from Hakka or Fujian or Monk or Nuns...or Brazil Or Canton. hey non duality right? Rene just give me that key. Diaz is waiting. :D

just some thought. no turkey tonight. almost a vegan. sweet dream and remember " how can we serve human being better " :D

[saifa5k]

Joy sez:---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik- how did you arrive at the chronological marking of fajing?
Do most wing chun people know what fajing is- besides as a word? [/B][/QUOTE]


Lets see.......a chinese fajita? Seriously, and your intent is? Are you just ruminating outloud, taking a poll, or assuming that you know something that the rest of us dont? So care to enlighten us and share your definition?

Davec (I dont give a "fajing!)

[Phenix]

Lets see.......a chinese fajita? Seriously, and your intent is? Are you just ruminating outloud, taking a poll, or assuming that you know something that the rest of us dont? So care to enlighten us and share your definition? ----Dave


the intent of chatting is chatting. :D

A Chinese fajita? So care to enlighten us and share your definition?

[saifa5k]

Originally posted by Phenix
Phoenix writes:
"A Chinese fajita? So care to enlighten us and share your definition? [/B] "

LOL, tell ya what, since you brought it up in your original post I think I would like to hear your definition, that is if you dont mind sharing. Hendrik right?
Dave c

[yuanfen]

YJKYM is not as simple as it looks since certain dynamic Fajing key are hidden within it. and verified................... certainly Hung Kuen or IRon wire type of YJKYM look very very likely to be rule out.
(Hendrik)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik... the mindful and natural breathing of wck/slt is as you noted far removed from iron wire or sanchin .
Several years ago there was real nasty dialog of the deaf with some US taiji folks who turn their noses up at any nanchuan as being capable of understanding peng and understanding fajing.
It's hopeless to revisit that discussion-though I agree with you on that score. The real problem is within wck itself.

Where I probably have a somewhat different view from you is over wck training. While dualism is to be avoided in order to understand free flowing motion....one still has to come to terms with physiology and it's limitations first in the progression of learning.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by saifa5k
"

LOL, tell ya what, since you brought it up in your original post I think I would like to hear your definition, that is if you dont mind sharing. Hendrik right?
Dave c


You mean Fa Jing?

Fa = issue out

Jing = force with path

or

Fajita?




you know, IMHO, some people including me when doing SLT/SNT is so stress in mind that similar to preparing to see GOD or buddha :D

You can notice I did that. like straightern my T-shirt and Jean since I no longer has a Kung Fu Shirt or pajama. Then, acting very very cautious so that nothing can be wrong. fully prepare..... bounce a little...

and then while doing it, the mind keep asking "is this right? is this right?" or giving comand "heart line, heart line, elbow elbow...." Soooo busy trying to be perfect according to mind but well, don't care about the knees who scream out "pain pain" or the elbow say "clamp clamp" or the chest say "stuffy stuff."
or some with the high stance the body scream out saying "are you serious ? the body is dis-integrating...." and the upper body says " hey my lower body is dead". or the body said " oh no only my arm is moving...."

all sort of STRESS and difficult in breathing before and while doing SLT ---- OH if you are good boy/girl following all the rules you go to heaven and got that magic.

hahahaha so that type of things continous until the day one is so old that can't do SLT anymore.... but still no fajita magic.

Well, soo proper and rigid and full of expectation...like a ritual instead of exersice when is the magic fajita of SLT appear? we need to ask Santa this Xmas. or else I rather go dancing to get the aerobic. teabo is great too. :D

I guess until the day one can say to oneself what is all this expectation, proper, lines, center is about and starts to dancing freely there is no fiesta. since it is democratic world. I guess watching the movie "Risky Business" before doing SLT is a great education.:D



http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/RiskyBusiness-1017641/
don't say OM. hahahaha

Risky Business is better then the last SAMURAI. the Risky Business is full of ZEN. and the Last Samurai is full of Rigid Ritual. Thus, it is the LAST. :D

http://www.channel3000.com/entertainment/2638667/detail.html

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen


Where I probably have a somewhat different view from you is over wck training. While dualism is to be avoided in order to understand free flowing motion....one still has to come to terms with physiology and it's limitations first in the progression of learning.


Joy,

I agree with you.

sometimes I think we are more like the LAST SAMURAI then The TOM CRUSE in the Risky Business who Streches... Zen is about Streching and not about those rigid ritual. :D


meditate on the non stop car and stop sign without missing the police standing in the bush trying to spy who cross the line but didn't stop at the stop sign is real Zen. :D

technical speaking. I think SLT/SNT today is far more rigid then before...... (who know what before means :confused: .)
The rigid is the effect of we break a part the Tan Sau. the bong sau........ for application purpose and some how the Karate or Hard Shao Lin discrete technics fuse in.... nothing wrong. just some continouity lost and thus the big picture doesnt show up. trust the momentum continouity also lost.. there goes the fajita....IMHO:confused:

[reneritchie]

Didn't you leave?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by reneritchie
Didn't you leave?


The phenix watches The TimeLine and thus it can go back and forth in time. until the battery in the PDA die off.

[saifa5k]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phenix
[B]


You mean Fa Jing?

Fa = issue out

Jing = force with path

or

Fajita?



Thanks, now that wasnt so hard now was it :)

FA = issue out

Jita = **** with bean power

Dave c

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Great info.!


I have been curious for a while now if Wang Xiang Zhai ever met any South Fist people. Most stories I have read are about people from other countries and were all easily defeated. The White Crane guy must have had a very high skill level to match Wang. Most of the Yi Chaun I have seen seems much softer than the Crane people I have seen so I would have thought Wang could have wiped out any of those challengers but then most of the Yi Chuan people I have witnessed do not seem to have the same level of basic effective boxing as the south fist guys so???

Can you please let me know where I can read bout this fight or is it only in Chinese?

"I think SLT/SNT today is far more rigid then before...... HS"

Seems to be the case!


Regards,

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Jim Roselando
Hello,


Great info.!


I have been curious for a while now if Wang Xiang Zhai ever met any South Fist people. Most stories I have read are about people from other countries and were all easily defeated. The White Crane guy must have had a very high skill level to match Wang. Most of the Yi Chaun I have seen seems much softer than the Crane people I have seen so I would have thought Wang could have wiped out any of those challengers but then most of the Yi Chuan people I have witnessed do not seem to have the same level of basic effective boxing as the south fist guys so???

Can you please let me know where I can read bout this fight or is it only in Chinese?

"I think SLT/SNT today is far more rigid then before...... HS"

Seems to be the case!


Regards,


Jim,

anyone who fight White Crane has to pass two white Crane's uniqueness.

1, the sun momentum which will guard 6 direction like a castle...
2, the shock Jing


IMHO, Wang has to meet these... in order to par. and seeing the top guy of Yee Chuan today training that lead me to believe White CRane has in someway influence Wang.

IMHO SLT has both of these 2 type of white things above with some softer training variation. thus WCK doesn't use Sanchin stance but YJKYM.

and SLT's Shock Jing will be closer to Yee Chuan's due to the involve of E12P. YJKYM is the evident infront of our eyes....

can we activate it.
Yes. we have the technology in the SLT set from all the lineage from the Red Boat.


So, there are a few components such as mind menthod, structure..... we need to restore these IMHO....


Again, thus I never belive in the Shao Lin original..... because there are advance components in SLT which those non red boat lineage cannot explain and doesn't have. I rather not mention it here because IMHO I dont want people to copy and say " I have it and better then yours"

just some thought

[Jim Roselando]

Hello Hendrik!


Which Yi Chuan sifu are you refering to? Would it be one of the Yao brothers?

YJKYM would remind me of a San Chin horse with the lead leg pulled back. Makes perfect sense to me if one was to take the San Chin ma, add in the Zhuang component and wallah! YJKYM

During an interview Wang stated:

Dong Hai Chuan, Che Yi Zhai and Gou Yun Shen were the top three he met during his travels up to that point in time.

Would the middle person be the Fujian Crane person?

Listed below is a link to one of Wang's grandstudents in NY with some info. on what the Yi Chuan is built with. Click on the Styles link!

www.dachengdao.com

Thanks for the info.!


Regards,

[Phenix]

Hi Jim,



Which Yi Chuan sifu are you refering to? Would it be one of the Yao brothers?---J

I saw Yao's (the successor' of wang) student doing something..... another successor......


YJKYM would remind me of a San Chin horse with the lead leg pulled back. Makes perfect sense to me if one was to take the San Chin ma, add in the Zhuang component and wallah! YJKYM ---J


IMHO
YJKYM is actually a state in Zhuang. thus, no Zhuang component is add in. But YJKYM is a part of Zhuang. the YJKYM today where some believe it this way and some other way, all is correct. because they are a part of the elephant.... which see that elephant everyone go extreme....


We always heard about the Shock Jing of WCK. but how it looks and how is it done?

( in the Hung Gam Bo hong kong movie years ago, there is a scene that the other guy use a niddle to poke Him and got this shock Jing.... :D I think that movie is the one Leong Jan fight with the praying mantis....? not the prodigal son.)

Like an archeologist, I think the YJKYM can deriver the shock jing and what Wang has is this type of Jing. but this type of jing is not from the SanChin which lock into ground..... And not the Hung Gar type YJKYM which also lock into ground in a different way.
we today may have already enough data to re constructing it or has already done re constructing it.


now, IMHO only , i can explain why SLT doesnt use san Chin.

Why not using San Chin ? imho, because SanChin is solid in structure.
that solid also has its otherside. solid will cost agile and loose.. from solid to loose there is a delay and a limited ground level tension (such as the floor limitation and ceiling limitation. the question ask is how loose can it be loose with sanchin.) by nature..... thus, there is a treat off.... thus the Jing will be different..............





During an interview Wang stated:

Dong Hai Chuan, Che Yi Zhai and Gou Yun Shen were the top three he met during his travels up to that point in time.

Would the middle person be the Fujian Crane person? ----J

those three were his senior generation.

[yuanfen]

Hendrik sez:
Why not using San Chin ? imho, because SanChin is solid in structure.
that solid also has its otherside. solid will cost agile and loose.. from solid to loose there is a delay and a limited ground level tension (such as the floor limitation and ceiling limitation. the question ask is how loose can it be loose with sanchin.) by nature..... thus, there is a treat off.... thus the Jing will be different..............
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik-that is a very important distinction. IMO of course.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Hendrik sez:
Why not using San Chin ? imho, because SanChin is solid in structure.
that solid also has its otherside. solid will cost agile and loose.. from solid to loose there is a delay and a limited ground level tension (such as the floor limitation and ceiling limitation. the question ask is how loose can it be loose with sanchin.) by nature..... thus, there is a treat off.... thus the Jing will be different..............
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik-that is a very important distinction. IMO of course.

Joy,

In communication system we talk about Noise floor. Say I invent a term called "tense floor " here. Like the Noise floor. In control system we talk about Digital or Analog system platform. So, here again I invent a term called "movement platform".


IMHO, We can prove that SLT is not Shao Lin at all based on this Tense Floor and the movement platform which needed to support the type of characteristics of WCK in conditioning the body/mind and application.

SanChin is good. but its nature tense floor is higher compare with the standing post or Zhan Zhuang type of stance.

Shao Lin is great but the movement platform is fast discrete burst instead of SLT's smooth continous waving and shock.

IMHO, we might be able to construct how SLT was practiced in the Red boat era or before with the data we got today. If our DSP technology can rebuild the mummy's face, we might be able to do it.

[teazer]

Originally posted by Phenix
( in the Hung Gam Bo hong kong movie years ago, there is a scene that the other guy use a niddle to poke Him and got this shock Jing.... :D I think that movie is the one Leong Jan fight with the praying mantis....? not the prodigal son.)


FYI "Warriors Two".

[Phenix]

Originally posted by teazer



FYI "Warriors Two".


Yes. That is the one.


And I hope that those who claim to be the original of WCK.

Present in details about this Shock Jing and where this Shock Jing method derive from.

[Ernie]

hendrick

pm or email me your break down of '' shock jing '' we emphisize this alot along with push/pull destabilizing quck short burst motions

i always a hear gary talking about '' and i have no idea how to spell it but sounds like '' gaing ging he defines it as short explosive power

i like the term '' shell shock'' :)

since we don't really spend time on the chain punch beyond early basic training , we spend a lot of time developing this ''shell shock '' type of power

so i would love to know a little more about it if you don't mind
but please don't get alibaba metaphorical cus you know you'll lose me
:D

[Phenix]

Ernie,

Yes it is the Gaing Ging.

according to old teaching, there are two type. one is the locallized "Snapping shock". another is the total body "shock".

The one describe in the movie is the total body shock.

Now, how to produce this total body shock get into alibaba metaphorical om ahhh hummmmm :D

Or you can ask your gf get an accupucture niddle, stand behind you....... aim at your behind and launch you... :D
Just do it, no break down. just that turbo charge by the niddle...:D

[Phenix]

Originally posted by crimsonking


Nevermind... your loss.


Diaz Dump me and I am loss. :(

[Zhuge Liang]

Hi Ernie,

since we don't really spend time on the chain punch beyond early basic training , we spend a lot of time developing this ''shell shock '' type of power


I believe we employ something similar. It'd be neat to compare our concepts of "shock" energy, among other energies. We have to set aside some time to whack each other and compare notes. :)

Regards,
Alan

[Phenix]

OK,

now we talk about issuing. So, it issuing has any reserve? or issuing always has some "string" tie? or it is a full issuing?

[Ernie]

alan
actually that is what i'm looking forward to compareing training concepts , not my way is this way and your way is that way but looking at it all as a whole from a skill development point of view
i'm not into '' sparring or chi sau against chi sau'' i don't get that , when i want to work on live sparring i find a boxer . or kick boxer and so on and work off that energy

wing chun against wing chun is like a false sense of reality , if you sharpen the blade to much it will break

i'm totally down to play and express idea's and skills in an exchange ,
but there has to be a end goal were both people are learning

so don't worry about me being '' a chi sau brawler ''

really looking forward to sat. gary is looking forward to meeting every one as well ,


hendrick

gaing ging
i understand how to use it , it can be expressed through any part of the body or the body as a whole , or blended with momentum
i'm just looking for different views and ways of explaining it , some people have it naturally they are relaxed and have good body control .
i'm one of those types it just comes out naturally to a certian degree
so i picked it up right away but others require more instruction . i used to just hit them and let them feel it , but i have seena few get a little sick and drop while others just take it , so i want a better verbal way to get the idea across
thanks

[Phenix]

Ernie,

Understood your points.