Where to get a Wooden Dummy...

[Brithlor]

I asked this question in my other thread, but I think this is too specific and needs a thread of it's own...

I searched all around for wooden dummies on the internet and came up with a few that LOOKED like they were high quality and a reasonable price... However, I noticed the SAME pictures are used on multiple wooden dummy sites, but are said to be made of much different wood... so apparently what I see on some sites may be much different from the actual product.

Does anyone know of a good place to get wooden dummies from?

Has anyone gotten a really poorly made wooden dummy from anyone?

What kind of wood is the best for dummies?

It looks like www.woodendummy.net has the best deal for the quality... Has anyone gotten a wooden dummy from them, and are they happy with the craftmanship?

What kind of stand would be the best to get?

I plan to spend under 1000 dollars if possible...

Also, I noticed alot of woodendummy makers include METAL legs with the option to made it wood for 50 dollars more. Is the metal a better idea? Or would a standard wood leg be just as durable?

Thanks alot... I'm considering getting a wooden dummy as I feel it will help with my training since I can't practice at the WC school too often because of distance... Also, I'm sure that if I quit wing chun some day that the dummy would still be useful for other martial arts as well, though I plan on doing WC for awhile :).

[Stevo]

I guess you're in America? I'm in Australia, so can only comment on general stuff, not anything specific to American dummies.

I don't know all the different stands that are available, other than stands that you put up against a wall (free-standing ones and ones bolted to the wall) and ones you put in a corner. Apart from choosing a well-built one, the main criterion for selection is where you're going to keep/mount your dummy.

My dummy has a wooden leg and I like it, but I guess metal ones should be OK - it's a matter of personal preference.

I think the Wing Chun dummy's designed specifically for Wing Chun and wouldn't be much use for other martial arts, so that's a good reason to stick with Wing Chun for the rest of your life!

Cheers
Stevo

[Ernie]

worked off these first hand , very nice http://www.cranesproduction.com/

[yuanfen]

Dave Lidell at Arizona Wing Chun Supplies in the Phoenix metro
makes very good custom made dummies with choice hardwoods.
His website is down but I can forward inquiries to him.

Carina ( akung fu sister) in Oracle outside of Tucson also makes very good dummies. Her outfit is Little Raven Studios. She also makes very good wooden bot jam dos for practice.

It is good to think of the long run. Lots of dummies are badly made- also many begin to show cracks if people dont know their woods relative to climates including humidity.

[Brithlor]

Thanks for all the replies!

I plan on getting a wooden dummy some time in the near future because I feel that 8 months is long enough for me to realize that I want to stick with Wing Chun for awhile and because I can't always go to my WC school too often because of distance, so a wooden dummy would be a great training tool in my opinion.

Also, wooden dummies are probably only getting more expensive, so even if I can't use one right this second than it is still worthwhile to get.

So far my teacher has taught me moves to practice on a dummy but not actual dummy forms.




"Dave Lidell at Arizona Wing Chun Supplies in the Phoenix metro
makes very good custom made dummies with choice hardwoods.
His website is down but I can forward inquiries to him.

Carina ( akung fu sister) in Oracle outside of Tucson also makes very good dummies. Her outfit is Little Raven Studios. She also makes very good wooden bot jam dos for practice.

It is good to think of the long run. Lots of dummies are badly made- also many begin to show cracks if people dont know their woods relative to climates including humidity."



Do you know what an average wooden dummy mounted to a wall would cost from either person? Someone I know will be in Phoenix later this month, so he could check out the dummies first hand if the craftsman has them on display. I'd really like to know how much they charge though, since I can't really afford a dummy over 1200... And it looks like I can get a pretty nice dummy from www.woodendummy.net for under 900.

I still want to look at the possiblities before I decide on one of their dummies though...

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. :)

[Brithlor]

Yuanfen, I'd really appreciate it if you can get back to me about what those 2 people you mention generally charge for a dummy.

Thanks for the help.

Other suggestions for decent priced, well crafted hardwood dummies are always more than welcome...

[EmptyCup]

a thread way back talked of using a PVC tube for the body of the dummy. There's also an article of that on a wing chun site.

could make things a bit easier for you.

[Brithlor]

I'm searching through wooden dummy threads as I speak... so far I've only found 1 result out of two hundred that match what I'm looking for though :p.

I don't particularly like the PVC wooden dummy idea, and from what I hear wooden main bodies are better for developing proper sense of how much power you need to apply...

[EmptyCup]

Sorry about that keep looking. If I have the time I"ll try to find it for you...they are there somewhere...

Yes that would be correct. The wood helps you hear your hit. Helps you judge the power and ging. Helps you hear if your strikes are simultaneous when they are supposed to be or a double hit if you messed up. However what's to say that PVC cannot do that as well? Main thing is you can still train your positioning, stances, arms, flow, etc

It may be much cheaper than ordeing a big heavy wood trunk to be shipped, or going elsewhere and transporting it back

Try not to spend more than $1000 if you can on a dummy. Too bad you do not live in Can. Our dummies are less than that and in Can funds too! Really good quality over her as well...Sunny Tang makes some great stuff though you still need to make your own frames and slats. High quality rosewood and cherrywoods go for 1000-1200 and cheapr woods for 500-800.

Other ppl I know sell and includes frame and installation for $500. Other sell the dumy with arms and leg for a crazy $150-200. Very useable only cheap finish.

[Brithlor]

Well, I suppose I could just import a dummy from Canada :).

Anyone try dummies from www.woodendummy.net? They look pretty nice, and for under 1000 dollars aswell (including shipping!).

I'd really appreciate that link whenever you have the chance... I'm still wading through alot of posts... maybe I need to change some search options.

[EmptyCup]

I did a search for "mook jong" - that brought up 2 pages only
then I did one for "Wooden Dummy" under "Wing Chun forum" - that brought up 8 pages.

Not too much to go through really. Both were for all dates as well.

[wingtsunmonk]

Brithlor,

I decided to purchase a dummy from www.thewarrior.com and have never for a minute regretted my decision. A little about the dummy I purchased:

First, I purchased the "traditional" dummy from this company. They offer quite a few more models but, I felt the "traditional" one was best for me. This dummy sits on a triangular base that can be filled with either sand or water for stability. It has wooden arms and leg and a PVC body. The PVC body is nice because it is covered with a 1/4 inch, or less, foam padding and then covered with a very durable canvas cover. More than likely the canvas is marine grade.

Here are my likes on the dummy:
1. I can hit it with as much power as I want.
2. Because it is free standing and not wall mounted, it takes up VERY little storage space.
3. It moves and feels like a traditional wooden dummy.
4. It cost me $700 U.S.

Here are my dislikes on the dummy. (Just barely worth a mention IMO)
1. The body is slightly smaller in diameter than a traditional wooden dummy.
2. If hit too hard, the body/base can slide a little.

Again, my dislikes are so slight that it wouldn't hold me back from recomending one of these. (FYI I solved the sliding action by putting an extra sandbag on the base)

That's my two cents. I'm VERY happy with this dummy and I hope you have the same success in finding the right dummy for you.

WingTsunMonk
www.bm-wingtsun.com

[EmptyCup]

wingtsunmonk

the pics are too dark to make out but it seems as if the triangle part protrudes past the base of the dummy's PVC body thereby blocking one from using the entering stance by the leg.

you have not had difficulties with this?

[wingtsunmonk]

EmptyCup,

===> the entering stance by the leg.

More than likely due to stylistic differences, I'm not entirely sure of what this approach entails. However I will attempt to answer your question with this statement.

If I am facing the dummy head on and call that 0 degrees, I can essentially move 135-140 degrees around the perimiter of the dummy, both ways, before I run into the base of the dummy. So in essence, out of a full 360 degrees I am losing about 80-90 degrees in the BACK of the dummy because of the base.

Hopefully that answered your question. If not, post again and let me know.

Regards,
WingTsunMonk

[Brithlor]

Thanks for the link, but I think I'd rather spend a little more money to get one with a wooden body.

That's just my own preferance, but I also hear from most masters I talk to that it is better for developing power than using a PVC pipe...

Maybe it's just because they're old fashioned and don't realize that Chinese people 300 years ago didn't have plastic.. :p.

[LC-NYC]

Don't Rush into buying your Dummy!

This is a big mistake people do and end up paying for it. Do research. Do ask for many opinions! Think about the type of wood. Do you want a solid body or a body that is glued together? Do you want a PVC dummy? Think about the size of the dummy! This is very important! Especially the stand and the dimensions of the body, arms, and the leg. There are many types of stand with various sizes. Think about the space that you have available for the stance.

My Sifu has a PVC and it works great! He is no ordinary Sifu either! That's another story..... Anyway that's Bull about the feeling of correct power on the wood! People would tell you unproven stories to
sell you something! To make money!
Don't believe what people tell you! See it for yourself! I purchased an excellent affordable wooden dummy from Lion Heart. It' s made out of the wood they use in bowling alleys. If you can find them, check them out! Their dummys sell themselves! Anyway don't look down on the PVC.
Before you buy from Great lion make sure you look else where. I met 2 individuals that where not that happy with their products. However there might be many who are happy? So just don't rush it! Good Luck with your searching! I hope in the end that you are Happy! Remember the dummy will be your second wife! :D

[Brithlor]

Hehe, thanks for the reply...

I don't plan on rushing into it, hence the thread :). I probably won't be buying one for a few months at least.

I'm asking for as many opinions as possible about the dummies that people currently have. I've seen good opinions about great lion dummies aswell. I thought alot of people on this board would have a dummy though... I'd appreciate it if some of them state a quick opinion about the dummy they have and where they got it from :).

I will search around for the lion heart dummies... do they have a website?

I prefer the look and feel of real wood... And from the prices I've checked out PVC dummies are NOT that much cheaper.

Please continue with opinions and suggestions :D.

[wingtsunmonk]

Brithlor--

I feel compelled to explain what I meant about hitting the dummy with power and what I use the dummy to train for so I don't mislead you. Especially if you are only eight months into WT,WC,VT.

I use the wooden dummy to mainly train my angles, position, and transitions through both. I DO NOT use the wooden dummy to increase or train power by hitting it as hard as I can all the time. To me this is an incorrect way to train the dummy. I am a firm believer of the Force=mass x acceleration theory in regards to developing power. ( My alter ego serves as an Electronics Engineer by day. :D )

There is a good thread going on right now about this called:
"Concern about the power (or lack of) in WC punches"
And I think "Marky" does a good job of explaining this in the post

What I meant about hitting my dummy is that when I do start flowing on the dummy and REALLY get into it, I won't break my hand or elbow when I come in for that one or two harder than hell hits on the dummy. (And there's no cracking in the dummy body!)

HTH,
WingTsunMonk
www.bm-wingtsun.com

[Stevo]

Originally posted by Brithlor
... I'd appreciate it if some of them state a quick opinion about the dummy they have and where they got it from :).

I:D.

Bloody good. Wood. Had PVC before that. Prefer wood. Made them myself.

[Stevo]

(Except for the arms)

[Brithlor]

I never thought of making the body myself, and using wooden arms made from a professional wood crafter.

How do you make the holes square enough though? How do you EVER go about finding the right size wood, without having to cut down a 50 foot tree for 5 feet of wood? :p.

Did you use a SOLID piece of wood?

Thanks for the replies everyone :), but I was hoping there'd be more people who had bought there wooden dummies from someone, and has an opinion about their quality.

[curtis]

Hello
there are many ways to skin a cat (so to speak.) if you choose to make your own mook Jong.
Do you wish to make it out of PVC, or wood?
PVC is easier to make. First off go to a plumbing supply house. You need a 8 or 9 inch piece of PVC schedule 80 piping. (that's if you choose to make a "traditional" PVC dummy)
(what an oxymoron!)
Draw your lines on the piping where you wish the arms&leg to be. (You can get the prints off the Internet.)drill your holes inside the square marks you made for the dummy arms. Take a jigsaw or saber saw and cut along the lines. (Stay inside the lines, you can always clean up later using a file.)
It takes time and patients But it is not hard to do.
Wood. can be made up or found depending on what you choose. You can glue up store bought wood and rounded corners off to make it round,by using a Sander or hand plain,OR ,You can go to a landscaping business or tree servers and see if they have any large limbs from trees, OR you can go to a phone pole yard, (Ameritech sells to the public used telephone poles , a few days every month, they normally sell them at 1 dollar for every six feet.)

How to make the square holes? That's not hard either (but it takes a LOT of time.)
I personally prefer round holes over square.
Either which way, you will need to drill a hole through the body at the appropriate angles,if you choose to make holes square you can either file them, or chisel them. (In either which way you're talking approximately 1 to 2 hours per whole.) For most mook Jong that is six hole's. (3 arms, one leg, and to supporting stand holes.)
Another way to get a mook Jong, is to serve to want ads, eBay or other is Web searches.
In truth most people do not stick with anything for any length of time, this is true in Wingchun as well. Try to buy the use dummy.
I would bet that you can find it rather cheap, most people do not want a 3 armed tree stand (or coat rack) in their basement years after they stop training.
Anyhow it all depends on your WANTS,NEEDS, and MONEY supplying, as well as the time you are willing to spend to make your own dummy.
Good luck .
Sincerely. C.A.G.

[Brithlor]

I prefer the wooden look... and from what I read it is generally superior over the PVC because of weight, sound, etc.

I don't think I possess the skill to build my own WOOD dummy though... Even if I do finish it I'm sure I will make some mistake that will be irreversible...

I think I'm going to get a dummy from www.woodendummy.net. I've seen posts about this company, and most have been pleased with the finished product. They're also very reasonably priced, and use solid pieces of wood that seem in line with 'tradition'.

I checked through every single wooden dummy related post and haven't found one thread that has posters reccomending certain sites or whatever... except for one or two random posts that reccomend a certain website.... but all of those are for other countries, so I assume it would cost too much to make it worthwhile to import a dummy to the USA.

Aynway, thanks for the replies everyone :). I think I'm just going to get a dummy from www.woodendummy.net unless I hear a substantial ammount of negative views about the quality of their jongs.

If anyone has an URL to a website with solid wood, traditionally created dummies for less than a 1000 dollars that they themselves have bought and approved the quality please drop a link.

Thanks again.

[Whiplash]

Let us know what you think of it when you get it :)

[yuanfen]

I have gone round and round with people who suggest round holes- so I pass--- I am a square guy on this one.
Curtis is right on one thing--- lots of folks dont stick with wing chun and one can look for good used ones.
But if you are in the art for the long haul- best to get a good dummy that will last a long time, wont crack and is designed well.
If someome just wants to beat up on something- it wont matter-

[Brithlor]

I AM in it for the long haul... injuries permitting :p. I think most people would've quit by now, with the distance I need to go to get to my class... So I'm 99% sure I'll be doing wing chun long enough to merit a dummy.

I would get one used, but I'm not sure if I can really trust the quality...

[Stevo]

I got my wood from a fallen tree. It was already pretty round in XS and just needed some minor trimming with a drawknife. The holes took time. I didn't have any fancy tools such as a drill press but just marked and cut everything carefully.

To get the holes square (i.e. right-angled), I marked where they had to enter front and back. Then put a small temporary nail in the centre of each hole mark, ran a chalk line between them right over the end of the dummy and nailed a batten onto the chalk mark on the dummy end. That way, when I was drilling the holes, I used the batten as a guide for squareness.

I didn't even have saw horses or a workbench, so just rested the log between an old chair and an old bench while working on it, with a couple of chocks of scrap wood under each side to hold it in place. Simple, cheap and effective.

For drilling holes, I used spade bits and a cheap electic drill that cost $30. Drilled from one side and then the other, and they generally met close to each other in the middle. Then used chisels and wood rasp to get them square in cross section. The major expense was a set of wood chisels - $50. I couldn't afford a mallet so used a section of a hardwood branch that I cut out bush and which worked well.

I couldn't get square or rectangular XS timber of the right dimensions for the slats, so in the end just used round steel pipe (25mm ID, ~ 4mm wall thickness). I was grateful that I didn't have to chisel 4 more square holes, too!

Bought the arms off a fellow student who's a great woodturner. Made the leg out of a branch. Cut a square XS end on it using a tenon saw, chisels and rasp.

Making the PVC dummy was simple. I did it similar to how Curtis did, but didn't even use a jigsaw - just used a manual keyhole saw that cost about $5, that you insert into a drilled hole to start the cut.

Made the frame out of secondhand hardwood that I got for free. Joins were half lap joints that I cut with a hand saw. Bolted it together with 3/8" galvanised bolts.

For me, making the wooden dummy was a lot of fun, and satisfying. I didn't rush it and just enjoyed doing it when the weather was nice and I felt like spending some time under the large kurrajong tree in the back yard making some woodchips.

Cheers

[yuanfen]

Brithlor-

Check out Dave Lidell's site. Click on "wooden dummies".
He knows his woods. He is a good craftsman. He has the tools.
He is an engineer to boot and cares about precision on angles and fits. And he knows about dummies being durable- on the long run.
I have no financial investment in his work. I have several dummies including one made by Koo Sang who does not make dummies any more. But the best dummy I have was made by Dave.
He makes them individually and does not crank them out.

Az Wing Enterprises

<www.azwing.com>

Wooden Dummies

[Brithlor]

Thanks for the link :) I'll make sure to look into those wooden dummies next time I have a chance...

[curtis]

Hello all

Empty cup
the tendons of the arms are easer MADE round, unles you want an exact Koo Sang dummy (the differance is the ARMS are offset, to bring the arms closer to same center.)
AnyHow if you make a flat on the back side of the dummy and then pin the arms the angle conbined with the flat will stop the arms from spining/rotateing. as I stated its all in how much work you want to put into it.

yuanfen thats a realy nice site .(azwing.com) thank you.

Brithlor good luck,and stick with it!
sincererly. C.A.G.

[anton]

looks like that website is down.

What do you guys think of this wooden dummy:
http://www.knoxwingchun.com/dummy/
http://www.knoxwingchun.com/dummy/octaline.htm

Seems pretty cool... I like the idea of selling them cheaper in "kit form".

[yuanfen]

I just checked--

<www.azwing.com>

is not down!

[curtis]

Brithlor have you checked out Wing Lam? there prices are in the middle of the road (so to speak) for Mook Jongs.
Ive never bought a dummy from them, But what I have bought from them is, nothing but the very best quality.

check out there web site at www.wle.com and look at the training eara.
C.A.G.

[Brithlor]

I WAS looking at this dummy:

http://www.wle.com//products/w102.html

But I see the EXACT SAME picture on other sites aswell, which kind of concerns me since obviously they are NOT the same kind of dummy :-/.

That dummy looks nice though.

[anton]

Originally posted by yuanfen
I just checked--

<www.azwing.com>

is not down!

Yeah its working again this morning.. last night it wouldn't load for me. First site i've seen selling customised dummies... about same price as others sell standard ones for too, seems like a pretty good deal.

[Brithlor]

I think I'm just going to get the dummy from www.woodendummy.net

If anyone has negative or positive experiances with them now would be the time for input :).

[anton]

What about MartialArtsMart (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/tradwinchunw.html)

[Brithlor]

The arms don't seem lined up enough... Also, I don't like the stand... looks kind of flimsy... I could be mistaken, and I COULD just make my own wall stand, but I'd rather just buy one of the other ones.

[Brithlor]

I just read what it said "comes complete with WALL mounting" etc.

That makes me a bit more interested, but the fact that it doesn't include a picture of the ACTUAL dummy makes me a bit suspicious :-/.

[cheem]

New Handmade Wooden Dummies from www.wingchunstore.com

$549

http://www.wingchunstore.com/images/dummy4B.jpg

We are selling handmade Wooden Dummies. These are perfect for Wing Chun and other martial arts practitioners. The Wooden Dummy teaches positioning, footwork, proper energy, and conditioning.

Until recently, you would have had to have a lot of time and money to order your own Wooden Dummy. Dummies often had to be ordered from Hong Kong or China, and the expense and wait (and weight) were often too much to bear.

Wooden Dummies are now available in the US, with many manufacturers charging outrageous prices for their dummies.

The Wing Chun Store feels that these overpriced dummies are taking advantage of earnest Wing Chun students who deserve better. That's why we offer quality, build-to-order, hand crafted Wooden Dummies for nearly half the cost of many other sources.

We offer durable, useful, attractive Wooden Dummies to people at reasonable prices.

For more information or to order, please visit www.wingchunstore.com.

Thank you!

[Brithlor]

Those pictures aren't really clear enough in my opinion...

Are those dummys ROUND or more like an octigon?

I don't like the idea of not having any kind of a stand for the dummy, not having the option for wall mounts... I can't see any place I can put the dummy that is similar to those in the pictures.

Is the wood body SOLID? If it isn't I don't think a hollow trunk of pine made from laminated wood is that great of a deal... even at those prices.

Thanks for the answers... I still feel that www.woodendummy.net is the best bet for me.

[Brithlor]

Also, the dummy arms don't seem level enough... Is it just the picture..? Because it looks like the arms do not overlap at all horizontally.

[cheem]

Brithlor,

Thanks for your questions and comments. I hope to answer them below. I've copied some of the answers about our dummies from a previous thread here and answered your other questions at the bottom:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=399475#post399475

I would like to address several understandable misconceptions about hollow Dummy bodies.

1. Can I break it? Won't it wear down, especially the arm holes (squares)?
It is very durable and the body will show no signs of use even after many years. This design has been used in several schools for over 5 years.

2. Isn't it too light? I thought I needed a solid body Dummy to offer the proper resistance.
The Dummy's resistance is affected mostly by how it is mounted. A tightly mounted Dummy can offer more resistance than a solid bodied model, while still having enough "play". To clarify: Mounting the crossmembers tightly makes the dummy feel very heavy, there is still healthy "play" from where the crossmembers run through the Dummy body. Our Dummy is still heavy enough so that you wouldn't want to carry it around. :)

3. Is the Dummy an octagon shape, then? It sounds like it will look cheap.
The dummy is planed so it is very rounded and smooth, so it does NOT have an octagon shaped exterior.
The Wooden Dummy is professionally stained and finished. Our customers have been surprised at the quality of the finish on the Dummies. One even said, "It's a work of art!"

STANDS: We have a free stand available on our site. Go to "Wooden Dummy", then "parts" or "stands" and you would be able to order a stand. We do not yet have photos of the stand, but it is a standard free stand that could be secured to the wall or floor, but doesn't need to be.

The arms are slightly offset vertically, according to traditional design.

Horizontally, the base of the arms nearly meet in the middle. Again, this is the traditional design.

We believe our dummies fit nicely between cheap PVC or poorly made laminated wood dummies and overpriced solid body dummies. We only aim to offer quality dummies at reasonable prices. I assure you that we are not making much profit when you consider how much *labor* goes into making a dummy. Some of our customers are people who started to make their own dummy but found the body was too much work.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks!

Timothy

www.wingchunstore.com (http://www.wingchunstore.com)

[curtis]

Brithlor

Timothy form the wingchunstore sounds like thay know what thay are doing. the hollow body,("Well" why not? it would make drilling and keeping the correct angles, EASER.) I see nothing wrong with there dummy desine. Although I would like to know what kind of wood there bodys are made from? If oak or any hard wood ( I know some soft woods are verry hard. I mean as long as the wood will not dent easly and loose the proper arm angles.)

Brithor Do your homework. Im sure you will do just fine.
remember the inporant things that you are looking for.
1. price
2.quality
3. type of stand, to fit your needs
4. ... :-) its your list not mine!

good luck.
sincererly. C.A.G.

[Brithlor]

Thanks for the clarifications... I hadn't realized that YOU were actually selling it, so sorry if I came off as insulting to your product :).

One more question which I didn't see answered; Is your dummy body SOLID or laminated? I noticed you said that it is a step above POORLY laminated woods and solid wood, so I assume that means your dummy is higher quality laiminated.

So the dummy is NOT octagonal? That is good to hear, since I believe it wouldn't be as good to strike...

Although I I trust all your answers ofcourse I'd still like to hear buyers opinions about your dummies before I make a conclusion.

I like the price though...

BTW, I'm still a bit concerned with the arm level... They seem too far apart but it could just be from the picture...

[Brithlor]

". Although I would like to know what kind of wood there bodys are made from? If oak or any hard wood ( I know some soft woods are verry hard. I mean as long as the wood will not dent easly and loose the proper arm angles.)"

I'm pretty sure they said its made of hollow PINE... My teacher had a dummy made from hollow pine... And it broke very quickly.

[cheem]

Brithlor,

The dummy body is made of real wood, and is stained and sealed. The body *is* made of pine, but I assure you that it will not dent or break. I can't vouch for your instructor's bad experiences with a different dummy.

I understand the questions about it breaking, but "I am afraid it will break" has to be one of the funniest concerns I have to address. This is just to say that one wouldn't think it would break after seeing it and working with it. It is very solid and is not a toy. I mean no disrespect, of course. It is a fair question.

The arms are in the traditional position, and aren't any ****her apart than any other dummies I have seen.

Thanks for the questions.

Timothy
www.wingchunstore.com

[Brithlor]

Sorry if I'm mincing words here... but I still didn't get an answer to the solid vs laminated dummy question...

Even laminated wood is real wood...

Is the body one solid piece of wood? Several boards? Laminated?

Thanks for the answer, I know it isn't 100% necessary to get solid wood dummies, but I can get laminated ones for similar price, so if these dummies are actually SOLID then this IS a great deal.

Thanks.

[anton]

It appears to be made of eight thick planks of solid wood, stuck together and planed to be round on the outside... just a guess

[Brithlor]

You're probably right... but I wish Cheem would answer the question... kind of seems like he is avoiding it for some reason :-O.

I guess I'm going to go with www.woodendummy.net... I would still like to hear any positive or negative experiances before I decide for sure though.

[cheem]

Sorry I didn't respond yesterday. I wasn't avoiding questions, I just have other things to do on Sunday. :)

Anton is right. The dummy is made of 8 planks constructed into an octagon and then planed on the outside to be smooth and rounded. The octagon construction is very sound.

Most questions are answered in the Help/FAQ at the site: www.wingchunstore.com

Naturally, you are free to choose any dummy you like. I only want you to be well informed about the quality of our dummies. I hope I have helped clear some misconceptions about hollow dummies.

Thank you.

Timothy
www.wingchunstore.com

[Brithlor]

Yes it has, thanks for the response.

The only reason I suspected you avoiding the question was because of your "yes it IS made of wood" comment :-P.

Your pricing is very reasonable so if the quality is alteast good enough to withstand many years of training while allowing all techniques to be preformed at optimum training efficiency then I don't really have any better options... after all the wooden dummies aren't ment to be art.

The only thing that's holding me back is the lack of wall mounting capabilities... That is my personal preferance as I don't think freestanding is as good or economical of a choice... I suppose I could make my own or buy a free stand from someone else, but that would have a lot more money for such a small amount of wood...

I've gotten items from www.tigersrike.com such as practice weapons, judo gees, etc, and they are reasonably priced aswell... I noticed they sell wooden dummies for very cheap prices... Has anyone gotten a dummy from them and what did they think of it?

Thanks for the replies everyone...

I'm still leaning towards www.woodendummy.net , though.

[Mokujin]

Well, Brithlor, any update? If I were dropping the money, I'd go with the Great Lion Company as well.

Sifu Yuan Fen- On Dave's site, specifically the wooden dummy gallery, what are those things between the dummies that look like swollen baseball bats? Never seen those before...

-Mokujin

[yuanfen]

Sifu Yuan Fen- On Dave's site, specifically the wooden dummy gallery, what are those things between the dummies that look like swollen baseball bats? Never seen those before...

-Mokujin
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave's dummies don't crack-they are very well made. They have a very good finish and if properly wiped and cared for can withstand great pressure and lasta very long time. The one made for me is regularly and repeatedly used by quite a few folks and still looks like furniture quality. dave( a student of mine) has made other equipment for me.

Carrina a wing chun younger sister at Little Raven Studios in Oracle,
Arizona also makes superb dummies and other martial art materials. She hasa web site under her studio's names. She is a student of Master Fong.

Both of them know their materials, have a grip on the concepts and alignment/engineering involved and are good craftsmen with good tools. The manufacturing details are improvements over Koo Sang's dummies of which I also have one. Broke one of it's arms without intending to do so.

Regarding the "other" things that you mention. They are also made to specifications. The material is oak but they can be other hardwood. In India- where I am originally from- they would be made out of teak. In Indian martial arts there were/are a whole series of "gadas" or clubs for development purposes. The ones of the size that you saw are called "mugdar" or "mudgar" depending on the regional lingo-s.
Like "shuai chao"(Sp?) there are lots of supplementary free hand and equipment exercises. I havent had the time to do articles on Indian martial arts. A full wing chun table.
BTW- Gotch and others have adopted some routines from the Indian world including the misnomered Hindu squats and cat stretches...some who do them don't quite do them right.

[Brithlor]

"Well, Brithlor, any update? If I were dropping the money, I'd go with the Great Lion Company as well. "

I'll be sure to leave a message about the dummy once I get it... I'm 90% sure I'm going with great lion though.

As soon as I'm ready to get a dummy I'm going to ask around as much as possible to make sure I get the best possible dummy for the amount of money I want to spend (around 900 dollars).

[Phil Redmond]

Brithlorwrote:
>>The only thing that's holding me back is the lack of wall mounting capabilities... <<

I go this idea from WCers who lived in HK apartments. It always worked well for me in NYC as well.
Measure from the ceiling to the floor. Have two 4x4s cut to that measurement. You will place one end of the 4x4 up against the ceiling and a sturdy wall. You then can use a mallet and strike the bottom of the 4x4 until it is flush against the wall. You will have to take into consideration that the floor may not be even. You might even have to plane the 4x4s until you get a snug fit. If you happen to plane too much off the bottom of the 4x4s you can use small pieces of wood to get a tight wedge. That will be the foundation for the frame. You'll then have to fix 2x4s one each 4x4 to support the slats at the top and bottom. I hope this description is understandable. If you're worried about damaging the ceiling or floor in a rented apartment simply place something between the 4x4s and the floor or ceiling.

[Brithlor]

Thanks for the suggestion Phil :).

I'm not in an apartment though... and I don't quite understand what you mean :-P, but that's ok since I plan on getting a wall mounting dummy anyway... I don't think I will get the hollow pine one offered by www.wingchunstore.com after all.

If anyone has any experiance with dummies such as this: http://www.bafa.biz/wooden/ or this one: http://www.superiormartialarts.com/catalog/uniform/wingchun.html (the golden iron teak dummy) please give a message. Those teak dummies are about the same price or lower than the dummies from www.woodendummy.net and LOOK nicer so if they're just as good or better to work with I would prefer them. But I don't feel I can trust their quality as readily as the great lions...

[IronFist]

Check out the link in my sig (the dummy one, not the RIAA one).

Why my instructions are the best:

The whole thing is generally under $250

It is 100% correct in size and shape and every other physical attribute. The arms are nearly the same height, the body is round, the arms are tapered, etc.

About 90% of the dummies I see out there have something wrong with them. For example, avoid dummies that have flat bodies, aren't round, don't have tapered arms, don't have the top arms at the same height, have PVC limbs, etc.

Sorry about the post quality. I'm falling asleep. Just look at the link in my sig and if you have any other questions please PM me. I have hundreds of satisfied customers, including a couple from this site.

[Mokujin]

IronFist-

Good to see your still around. Those plans pay off your college, yet? Take care!

-Mokujin

[Brithlor]

Thanks anyway, but I'd rather not buy intructions for something I can make myself.

I'm just going to get the dummy from www.woodendummy.net unless someone changes my mind before it's too late :).

Thanks everyone for all the input... But please give more since I'm not getting a dummy quite yet.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Brithlor
Thanks everyone for all the input... But please give more since I'm not getting a dummy quite yet.

Do not get a dummy that:

1. Doesn't have a round body with a diameter of 8.5"-9.5" (I think those are the right measurements)
2. Doesn't have tapered arms
3. Doesn't have the top arms at within 1/4" of the same height
4. Doesn't have a leg
5. Doesn't have wooden limbs
6. Doesn't have round limbs
7. Deviates from the traditional 3 arm, 1 leg design
8. Spins
9. Rotates
10. Bounces
11. Has springy arms
12. Doesn't have about 1/4"-1/2" "play" in the arms
13. Isn't the proper height (for you)

Hmm I think that's it. A year or two ago I made a long post giving all the guidelines for a proper dummy and then linked to pictures of some company's dummies that violated the principles. There are some really crappy dummies out there. It must have been a while ago cuz we haven't been able to post pics here for a long time... hehe :)

Anyway those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Good luck.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Brithlor
I'm just going to get the dummy from www.woodendummy.net unless someone changes my mind before it's too late :)

Yeah, theirs are pretty good. In fact, since Asheville Woodcrafters seems to have vanished into thin air, woodendummy.net would be my top recommended company if you're going to buy one.

If you want my honest opinion, tho, don't buy a stand from them. Nothing against their quality, it's just a ripoff. $175 for their "portable stand?" Seriously. And that's if you buy it with a dummy. Alone they want $300. :rolleyes: It costs like $45-50 to build. I know :)

But of every company I've seen on the net, and I've seen a LOT of them, theirs do look the best. They're still pretty expensive, but I've also seen worse quality dummies for $1,200.

[Brithlor]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out those guidelines Ironfist :).

The www.woodendummy.net ones as you said are all within the guidelines you mentioned... However, do you hve any personal experiance with one of these dummies? Everyone reccomends them but I can't find 1 person who actually got a dummy from them.

[sticky fingers]

A few articles on the net say pine is not a good wood for the dummy body, because it has 'pitch' in it.

Does anyone know why?
and what is 'pitch' and why is it bad?