View Full Version : Gracie Jiujitsu, Brazilian Jiujitsu, and Machado Jiujitsu: Are they the same style?
08-15-2000, 12:27 AM
Are they? Mario Sperry claims that there is another style of jiujitsu that is practiced in Brazil that the Gracies do not know. Sperry claims that it was the techniques from this other Brazilian Jiujitsu that enabled him to defeat Royler Gracie. i think Wallid Ismail also pactices this other Brazilian jiujitsu.
08-15-2000, 12:39 AM
They're the same thing. My instructor actually learned Gracie/Machado/Brazilian JJ at the same school as the Machado's. The only thing that differs are the teaching methods. I've never heard of Sperry or Wallid claiming anything like that. Ed, JJJ?
Actually, I read that, too. What he was saying, though, was that the JJ in Brazil had continued to evolve, and the Gracies had tried to remain static. It is really a marketing thing. Rorion "Only I and my brother teach the real thing" Mario 'They teach outdated techniques, my style is better!" Remind my kung fu brothers of anything? yep, lineage wars come to BJJ! Welcome to the same old boat, guys.
08-15-2000, 01:11 AM
I got to go with Paul on this one, for the most part they are pretty much the same thing. Although I cannot really say as I have never trained at a Machado school yet, but I would imagine the only differences would be perferrences on training style and individual techniques perferred or deemed effective. I have heard that the Machado BJJ students have been working the Gracies' BJJ students recently in the tourneys.-ED
08-15-2000, 01:12 AM
i think I have read that the machados are cousins of the gracies.
08-15-2000, 01:23 AM
Check out the website www.bjj.org (http://www.bjj.org)
It has the family tree and belt rankings and shows who trained who on it as well as general information and some really good stuff on BJJ. I hope that helps to answer your questions.-ED
08-15-2000, 01:42 AM
i'm glad we can talk about ju jutsu here. on another thread they recommended i take up tkd or bjj if i really want to learn how to fight. know any good bjj or tkd websites?
08-15-2000, 01:48 AM
Just wait till the gracies announce that they are going to show their patented 'brazilian chi' techniques. - it's better than regular chinese chi, qi, or korean or japanese ki.
08-15-2000, 02:08 AM
IMHO they're the same...analagous to WT/WC/VT...
Its all fun and games til someone loses an eye. Then its just fun.
08-15-2000, 02:18 AM
All jiu-jitsu in Brazil came from Coma Meada.
This jujitsu style was Kano Jujitsu or Kodakan Judo (not to be confused with modern judo). Coma Meada taught this style of fighting to Carlos Gracie who inturn taught
it to his brothers,sons and family members. The most refined and innovated student was Helio Gracie. He was the architect of what is now called Gracie Jiu-jitsu. All forms of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is from Helio and the Gracie clan.
And for all you kung fu practioners:
Both Sumo and ju-jitsu (judo's parent arts)decended both directly and indirectly from Shuai-jiao. So when Kano devised his judo, he basically re-invented a watered-down
version of Shuai-jiao. An interesting historic paralel since Chang Tung Sheng was the first recorded, undefeated no holds barred fighter, in the MA world.
08-15-2000, 02:47 AM
Well actually, what most BJJers would say /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
How can anything effective be invented by the Asians??? It's gotta be a mistake, we all know BJJ is BRAZILLIAN (in other words European by way of South America)
Westerners=actual fighting ability
Easterners=actual mimicking of bugs..
Sorry for this post, I'm just sick of all this Euro-centric hogwash posted about the martial arts...
Jiu-Jutsu is JAPANESE... not Portugese.... doh!
[This message has been edited by Buhma (edited 08-15-2000).]
08-15-2000, 06:04 AM
An excelent and informative site on bjj is www.intheguard.com.As (http://www.intheguard.com.As) for the question regarding the similarity, I will attempt to answer that question.Bjj is such a young art that it has not fully developed completely.Most people can execute a decent armbar or heel hook or rear naked choke but do they have the skill to get to the position wich enables these finishers.Subtle positioning,weight transfer,ground balance and takewdowns are constantly evolving.In the united states we are slightly limited compared to the cutting edge Jiu-Jitsu in brazil.A bjj school might have 50 or 100 students but in the average schools in Brazil there can be closer to thousands of students who train every day.With these types of numbers training different styles and teaching theories are sure to arise.One gym may be proficient in leg locks another may have students who excel in the guard position.I cannot spek for the Japanese completely but the ones I have seen fight are amazing.Anyways not to ramble but, every gym has different philosophies and emphasizes different things.I hope I was of some help. PEACE
08-15-2000, 06:10 AM
What does this have to do with Kung Fu?
08-15-2000, 01:00 PM
Kung fu for some people must be like sex is for me, it is all you think about.
Anyway, I think their are differences among BJJ camps. Ricksons style, which I am doing, is very tight and gives your opponent no room to move, and also flows a lot and is smooth. I'd say it's best trademark is the flowing from move to move and if it rely's on a gi too much or won't work on big strong guys is isn't legit. I consider a Machado trademark fancy sweeps from the guard and I've seen some unique Machado armbars. In Brazil one big difference their is EVERYONE stands up to pass the guard, and in the states a lot of people don't stand. Gracie Barra, where Renzo Gracie got his blackbelt, his school I believe translates to NHB and self defense well with tough spider guards and aggresiveness. Carlson Gracie's school is a good combo of strength, conditioning, and BJJ techniques with a ton of counters and counters to counters so they are always a move or two ahead. Hope this isn't confusing, I love BJJ.
08-15-2000, 01:31 PM
hey mantis this is a free forum,everybody might be able to learn something if people can keep a open mind.By the way if it says Jiu jitsu why do you respond.
08-15-2000, 01:39 PM
hey buhma since my vehicle is called a el camino, does that mean it was designed in mexico?Oh I know im being euro-centric right?The adjective of the style doesnt dictate its origin.Get a clue.
08-15-2000, 08:42 PM
Reality, the difference is that JiuJitsu really was created in Japan and its subsequent move to Brazil has been fairly modern.
But I would still question it's direct lineage to Shuai Jiow. Most of the Japanese JJ looks more like Chinese Chin na than Shuai Jiow. Judo looks allot more like SJ and a whole lot more like BJJ than JJJ. The Japanese JiuJitsu has allot more to do with the Samurai Aiki Jutsu than Shaui Jiow. Now I know allot of people would argue that Aiki Jutsu then comes from SJ but I think we're getting way too far into antiquity to really be able to judge that with any certainty.
08-15-2000, 09:16 PM
Personally, I don't think where an art comes from is truly important as long as it has evolved into it's own unique discipline. Wow. The arts resemble each other. Big surprise seeing as there are only so many ways a human body can move. Why do people care about this stuff?
08-15-2000, 09:25 PM
Reality, I have more than a "clue" thank you.
As your name suggests, I live in REALITY, and as such am disheartened at bigotry. I shouldn't have brought that subject here, as I'm sure most of you are not bigots... I just wanted to rant a little, ok? I just wanted to point out that for some reason if it isn't "western" it isn't good enough... even if it is of eastern origin... it is somehow westernized to placate the fragile egos of many westerners.
An example would be these ANHB competitions... how long have they been around? And how many hundreds of years has other non-western competitions been conducted? So all those "other" fights are simply forgotten because of a few matches in an octagon? Oh yeah...that's right if it ain't Pride or UFC.. "it ain't ****".
And don't kid yourself, Pride is FULLY western competition... just because it's in Japan doesn't make it eastern. Japan is WESTERNIZED... you don't see their businessmen conducting business in Komonos do you? My point is Japanese civilization has assimilated much of western pop-culture, and the Pride comp is just an aspect of it.
As for your automobile analogy... I suggest you take a class in logic or critical thinking, as that does not compare. If you wish, you can try again.
[This message has been edited by Buhma (edited 08-16-2000).]
08-16-2000, 01:09 AM
I got a B in logic last semester. venn diagram?Arisotlean truth tables?Faulty analogies?Square of opposition?Probability?contrary to fact hypothesis?,post hoc fallacy?Please, Im in college and I train.I think ufc has become too commercialised for my tastes.Try international vale tudo, I like it better.Your right i used a bad euphimism.No need to argue bro,who cares where the **** came from,I wasnt there when it was invented so martians could have taught it to Helio.You probably know more about its origin,i really havent looked into the subject to greatly. peace
08-17-2000, 12:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MaFuYee:
Just wait till the gracies announce that they are going to show their patented 'brazilian chi' techniques. - it's better than regular chinese chi, qi, or korean or japanese ki.[/quote]
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