Defeating wing chun

[Void Boxing]

Through my nine years of training in JKD and wing chun, ive found the most valuable tactic to dealing with a wing chun practitioner is the PIA tactic or progressive indirect attack. :(??? Here is why. The pracitioner expects you to just throw a punch or a kick, he expects to parry and strike at the same time. When you feint deeply into their guard they try to gain contact to use chi sao. When you understand this you can decieve both the chi sao and the parries.

Tonight i discovered that you can make a wing chun practitioner parry themselves and you can confuse their chi sao with varying degrees of tension in your arms. You can make you arm go tense and jerk forward to make them react and then you can disengage their arm swiftly to score with SA - simple attack. You can decieve their parries with a deep attack that suddenly changes and hits on another line i.e straight palm strike to the face feint, change angle and hit with an angulated attack combined with angle footwork.

This worked because i almost knocked my mate out whilst playing with him. Hope you find this useful, i sure do.

[Ernie]

ahhh the dreaded chasing hands curse

a lot of guys will bite a pia , high low high . and sia with a pressure fake , but if your sia has a pressure fake it is now a pia ,

but don't be fooled when you run into a guy that doesn't chase hands , doesn't need a bridge , and doesn't care what your doing , he will just single mindedly attack what ever center of mass he see's things will change .

the game will go to who every can eat up the others position and space with the least amount of resistence and the most stability ,

if you really want to mess him up chi sau with him drive the pressure up for a second then drop low for a single or double leg , and take him into a firemans carry around the room for a while :D

[Phil Redmond]

I do TWC. We don't chase hands and we don't depend on simutaneous blocks and strikes. I simply cover a point in space. Plus I train for and enjoy the fake. I do it with boxers all the time.

[Ernie]

come on phil you telling you never bit a fake:D
how you doing man , hope all is well

[reneritchie]

Nice to see that even basic WCK concepts like leak and intercept hitting can be 're-discovered' through personal training and insight, even if it does take several years. Just goes to show what works, works.

Next, you might want try to find some more experienced WCK people who will just hit on feint or on loss of contact.

(More seriously, however, you don't beat systems, you beat individuals, if I can smash some poor PE class kid in the face before he can greco suplex me, doesn't mean I figured out how to beat wrestling and should be stepping into the ring with Couture...)

[Mckind13]

Rene,

Are you training to fight Couture?

Wow, what a stud :)

David

Void,

You are correct that you can fake people and I have done some dumb stuff playing with my kickboxing and boxing friends.

On the other hand when we train and focus on the fundamentals it makes it hard to get faked. You attach, I hit. You fake, I hit.

[Phil Redmond]

Good to hear from you Ernie
"come on phil you telling you never bit a fake"
Heck yeah, but I'm coming in hitting or kicking....;)
Mckind13 's last two sentences says it all.

[reneritchie]

David,

Yeah, Bubba Couture. 4'7", 87lbs, 0-8-0, of pure infant fury! You know him? Got any tape??

BTW- Did you get the stuff I sent? Was it usable?

[Mckind13]

Hey Rene

Off topic - yes I did! They are great my hotmail freezes when I send stuff.

**** Hotmail.

On topic

Bubba by submission in 14 minutes :P

David

[reneritchie]

sc3w that! Bubba's getting ownded! By waterbottle R12 96:37s

[S.Teebas]

....you can confuse their chi sao with varying degrees of tension in your arms. You can make you arm go tense and jerk forward to make them react and then you can disengage their arm swiftly to score with SA - simple attack.

IME ive found tension in the arms is actually a big problem when you face someone who can use their body mass properly.

[old jong]

I don't mind when people think they can fool "Wing Chun" with some peekaboo tricks!....It makes them vvvvvveeeeerrrrry easy to beat!...;) ;)
It's OK....Continue like that!...;)

[Keng Geng]

Originally posted by Void Boxing
The pracitioner expects you to just throw a punch or a kick, he expects to parry and strike at the same time. A Wing Chun idiot would, yes.

When you feint deeply into their guard they try to gain contact to use chi sao. What!!! A Wing Chun idiot would, yes.

Tonight i discovered that you can make a wing chun practitioner parry themselves and you can confuse their chi sao with varying degrees of tension in your arms. Clearly the person with whom you were training does not quite get Wing Chun.

This worked because i almost knocked my mate out whilst playing with him. Hope you find this useful, i sure do. Perhaps raising the bar with respect to your training partners would be in order. Your conclusions are ridiculous.

[russellsherry]

hi guys"S i never regard a fake as a fake someone makes a move to hit me depending the move or what punch ill hit him as hard as possiable to make him realise faking is a waste of time i arggee with earnie as always if he is in frount of you and trys to contack hit him peace russellsherry

[Void Boxing]

Rene - More seriously, however, you don't beat systems, you beat individuals

**** good point that - you dont beat the system, you just beat the individual. Cheers for the correction friend.

MC - You attach, I hit. You fake, I hit.

Either way, throw something into them to disturb them. Good. Cheers.

[glenn richards]

Hi VB
Being a fellow Sydney sider i'm interested in who you trained with in WC.
Incidentally, im in agreeance with most of the previous posts... it does sound like your training partner "chases hands"
regards
Glenn

[Void Boxing]

Sifu Joe Molnars students - they trained under grandmaster.

Sydney um, do you train with rick spain?....

Note: The training partners are not that great, i dont get to spar with the good training partners because they are too busy getting beginners up to scratch.

[anerlich]

Sydney um, do you train with rick spain?....

Glenn doesn't, but I do.

Sifu Joe Molnars students - they trained under grandmaster.

Haven't heard of him, which is not to say he's no good. Grandmaster who?

The pracitioner expects you to just throw a punch or a kick, he expects to parry and strike at the same time. When you feint deeply into their guard they try to gain contact to use chi sao.

I'm not expecting you to "just throw a punch or kick". I'm expecting to hit you or take you down as or before you try to get a shot off. I call this the PDA, or "preemptive direct attack" :cool:

.Tonight i discovered that you can make a wing chun practitioner parry themselves and you can confuse their chi sao with varying degrees of tension in your arms. You can make you arm go tense and jerk forward to make them react and then you can disengage their arm swiftly to score with SA - simple attack. You can decieve their parries with a deep attack that suddenly changes and hits on another line i.e straight palm strike to the face feint, change angle and hit with an angulated attack combined with angle footwork.

That's good, but really none of these are earthshattering revelations. Most people who spar and chi sao regularly, especially with people MORE SKILLED THAN THEY (caps intentional) have worked these things out for themselves.

Seriously, if the people you work out with are this predictable, you need to look further afield for more challenging training partners. You haven't found a way to defeat WC, you've found a way to beat up less experienced practitioners.

[namron]

Originally posted by Void Boxing
Sifu Joe Molnars students - they trained under grandmaster.

Sydney um, do you train with rick spain?....

Note: The training partners are not that great, i dont get to spar with the good training partners because they are too busy getting beginners up to scratch.


Have you tried this tactic with sifu Joe Molnar? He sticks a lot closer and through personal experience is direct.

Was that at the Knox branch?