View Full Version : Mike Tyson cant box !!!! I just found this out.
07-02-2000, 01:03 PM
I have read in a few recent posts numerous people have made statements like "people who believe you can apply kf are idiots" or "there are no real deadly kung fu techniques that can be applied" or "those of you who think you can gouge eyes out or twist groins"
I dont blame most people for not believe these are possible because if your level is so low all you can do is say he cant do it either. After all since you can't box tyson cant either.
My point is this take any simple technique for any given style an armlock, a take down by putting your arms behind his knees a simple pak sao punch and a side or front kick.
If you look at the effort needed to apply the arm bar you could just as easily strike under the armit which can cause serious damage to lynmph glands etc.
If you watch NHB you see a takedown which involves taking peoples knees from under them if you can bend low and apply this i think you could easily apply a tiger claw to peoples ballss and twist.
If you can apply a pak sao and punch to the nose i think you could apply a pak sao and gouge to the eye i mean you got two eyes 1 nose and i think its self explanatory.
You guys are ****ed in the head is all i can say . Soooorrry
07-02-2000, 11:09 PM
To an extent I agree. The advanced techniques in martial arts are all grounded in the most basic ones.
A punch to the throat can kill, it crushes the trachea (which resembles a hoover tube), which splits the sides, causing bleeding into the windpipe, which is inhaled in the lungs. This can also happen if a strangulation technique with excessive force. The key to it is follow through. Most punches hit, and are then pulled back, which prevents them being caught. In this case, the trachea flexes back to its original shape (although it is a very uncomfortable experience).
It needs a follow through to crush it, and split the sides. All in all I would say it is a potentially deadly technique (as is a knee to the groin, btw). Deadly techniques are more about where than how you strike, a point in the neck along the carotid artery houses a nerve centre, which monitors blood pressure in the body, to warn the brain to control this by expansion or contraction of the blood vessels etc. If pressed in the right point, your body tells your brain that your blood pressure is MASSIVELY high (about five to ten times higher than fatal levels, depending on how hard it is pressed), and so the blood vessels expand, and the heart stops pumping. This causes unconsciousness within 6 seconds, and brain death within a minute or two.
Almosts all of the pressure point techniques/deadly/maiming techniques are based on simple science and physics, creating conditions where what was once strong becomes weak. (The neck crank as I was taught it is deadly, if you twist hard enough(it breaks the neck, and rips apart the supporting tissues), do you consider this to be outdated or nearly impossible to apply?
If you can jab someone in the face, you can strike them in the neck(which is actually moving slower), and if you catch them right, it is a debilitating/deadly technique. If you can apply a choke, you can do a neck pressure point. Thos who excel at advanced techniques are those who know all the basics, and practice a variety of techniques.
(Unfortunately, in most kinds of competition, it pays to specialise, and make two or three good moves "yours", these become excellent tools, but at what cost? At the cost of flexibility, if you practice deadly techniques frequently(light contact, or padded areas with targets on a moving person, or simply holding back on power), I believe you can pull them off easily.
Morality in this issue is a different thread altogether.
07-02-2000, 11:34 PM
I think you'll find if you go through some of these posts again, you'll see that it isn't that I don't believe that these techniques can work and have worked. It is that most Kung Fu martial artists do not train these techniques during sparring and so most likely would not be able to pull one off in a real fight. The worst part is that because of their belief that these techniques are so deadly, they have developed a false sense of confidence and will most likely get worked in a fight even more seriously if they tried one of these techniques and failed. If you can not punch someone with a glove on, or even kick them effectively how are you going to finger jab them or pull a groin shot off or any number of other "deadly" techniques. Just to let you know I do practice some of these techniques during sparring such as bitting and groin shots during grappling and finger jabs and groin shots during striking. It just isn't a good idea to base your self defense on these techniques unless you train them live and train them often, JMHO.-ED
"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist
07-03-2000, 01:12 AM
WONGSIFU...nice theory...and true in many ways...the problem I think may deal with the INSTRUCTORs...many kung fu instructors are out there to make $$$...so they teach alot of sports kung fu( san shou etc... )...you are not going to have a lot of students that interested in SELF DEFENSE...how do you compete...in terms of sparring with the methods eye gouge etc...somewhat difficult=ECONOMICs...sparring equipment is expensive especially the type that wear face shielding head gear! TONY BLAUER sells the best but 1 suit of armor is $1000 or more...what instructor has the money for that???
07-03-2000, 10:48 AM
Ive gotta agree with both the posts so far, One thing i actually find quite daft is that in my old wing chun school some students would pay 1000$ to practise six months of "Iron palm" well it was pretty lame iron palm but still, the thing is they always used to spar using the sun fist, and all the techniques and applications were with this fist . so i seriously doubted if they could use their palm , apart from in their pak sao.
[This message has been edited by Wongsifu (edited 07-04-2000).]
07-03-2000, 10:59 AM
You aren't paying attention and I am simply growing tired of humoring you. As I have said many times already, if you have not done your deadly techniques then you do not know if they will work PERIOD.
How many times have you strike the lymph glands and caused this so called serious injury? How many times have you used your leopard fist to strike the neck and kill somoneone? You THINK these things will work but you have never actually done them so they are theory. PERIOD.
If you don't get this, nothing more to say anyway
07-03-2000, 12:45 PM
Is this the only statement you can provide, I mean come on man seriously have you ever been kicked in the nuts ? In sparring it hurts and thats controlled imagine when you are attacked on the street if you go all out and wack him with a full force front kick in the goobers ... yeesh
I have personally never disfiguired or etc etc but, I have seen someone kick someone in the head and knock him out, 2 people of the same level sparring,
on two separate occasions on the news 4 years apart, someone pushed someone else he tripped up and fell on the floor banged his head and died.
My old sifu was sparring and with a reasonably weak kick broke someones ribs. He is not that good.
If the human body is so weak imagine a full blown punch that can knock someone out what it would do in the throat. you say you were hit but it just hurt well your lucky hehe, I know someone else who was hit in a karate tournament by accident and he was rushed to hospital.
If you tell me that someone who practises forms and no applic / sparring i will buy it but to tell me that if you punch to the throat and it isnt deadly bwahaha.
07-03-2000, 01:14 PM
"if you have not done your deadly techniques then you do not know if they will work PERIOD." lkfmdc
Gosh, I guess this means knife training to sever an artery is useless too. After all, it's only mere "theory" about what will happen if the blade slices that larynx. ****, I'd also better warn the military that bayonet practice is going to have to include live targets from now too. Wouldn't want those service men going out there with simple theory. Of course, if you're implying that some so-called "lethal" techniques are totally ineffective because the people who use them don't know how to fight or because the technique itself is laughable or some off-the-wall mystical piece of ca-ca, that's one thing. However, if you're implying no lethal techniques exist or that they don't work simply because there's no body twitching at your feet, then, sir/madam, you're wrong. Yes, I've had to fight. Yes, fighting is vicious. Yes, it's fluid. That's it's nature. It's also the reason for training correctly to be able to handle such situations.
As for the insulting and demeaning comments around this board - it's actually becoming boring. It's like listening to a group of 7th graders who haven't learned the first thing about expected manners in a social situation. I'm not even a Japanese stylist and, yet, I enjoy the E-budo board better because differences are discussed politely, rationally, and, it turns out, everyone seems to be actually learning something. I love the Chinese arts and had hoped this might be a place where I could also learn about some of those I'm not familiar with. Instead, all I've found in most postings are whinings and whimperings and, in most cases, it's beginning to appear that those who whine and scream the loudest, apparently, know the least.
07-03-2000, 01:14 PM
Hey Wongsifu, don't worry if all else fails you can bite a piece of your opponent's ear off like Tyson did to Holyfield. But of course Almighty Ross here would say it doesn't work because we do not go around practising that technique.
07-03-2000, 02:02 PM
Just like the name says, it's simple common sense. I dont think anyone denies that a groin strike or an eye gouge/claw or a strike to the armpit can be an effective technique. Thats not the point. The point is, can you effectively apply the technique? What if you get countered? Etc. there are much too many situations to worry about that you can't base your fight strategy on single shot "deadly" attacks. That kind of strategy is going to get you hurt if you wind up in a position you are unfamiliar with. If you arent training full contact, you aren't learning how to fight. PERIOD.
07-03-2000, 02:28 PM
Gojira yes but ive never trained in ear biting how do i know if my bite is hard enough. lol /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
common sense i agree tottaly with you. Thank you blue bar my point exactly. I like a good discussion but i hate when someone tottaly discounts something as immpossible thats how it is.
Gojira what do you practise by the way ?
07-04-2000, 05:59 AM
Well I have emptied my cup so to say, I have studied a little of a lot of different things, but I intend to start Praying Mantis very soon and hopefully (and those who know me know how bad I want this) Lama style Hung Gar and Wing Chun.
My goal in martial arts is to bring back the FLAVOR that has been missing in tourneys lately.
BTW I can't stand Ross I think by now you would have realized this.
LOL oh yeah it doesn't take mush to rip off a ear, trust me /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
07-04-2000, 08:18 AM
Gojira learned from his sifu very well, he issues challenges a then immediately backs out of them with excuses.
Read my resonse to you, I offer you video tape and witnesses if you want me so bad. You have nothing to lose then, since you think you can so easily beat me up.
If you want to learn Lama, you should at least find someone who learned the system
07-04-2000, 11:31 AM
To ross the meglomaniac......
I do know someone who knows Lama....
Duh wouldn't mention it if I didn't...
BTW I insulted you, t'was never a challenge,
Wouldn't sully my hands with the likes of you.
07-04-2000, 12:57 PM
Better a dweeb than a pathetic coward, right? lkfmdc, dont waste your time with people like this. Some people get it, some don't.
07-04-2000, 01:19 PM
Commonsense, if you have nothing to do, don't do it here. Mind your manners son, the is a personal thing with ross, you have no clue so don't comment.
07-04-2000, 10:37 PM
I need some arroz to go with this pollo
You learned really well from your sifu, make a challenge and then back out as fast as you can.
If you want me, you know where to find me...
07-04-2000, 10:49 PM
And I need some Cheese to go with this whine.
Too tired to write something new?
That paste & copy function you have down packed.
Just like your technique.....nothing impressive.
BTW Finster if you can't handle the high, don't do the drugs!
07-04-2000, 10:54 PM
your most impressive skill is backing out of your challenge so fast.
you're I'm so mysterious act isn't working.
you want me, you know where to find me.
the more you yap yap the more you show that you are just a keyboard tough guy
07-04-2000, 10:57 PM
This reminds of fights in the playground back in school days: Two kids would be pushing eachother back and forth while calling eachother names but never get into the fighting. LOL. Very amusing...
07-05-2000, 04:05 AM
I just wonder.....if ross is so busy teaching 200 + students where does he find the time to post?
I'm a troll....I'm a troll.....
07-05-2000, 12:06 PM
thanks for posting what you practise Gojira, good stuff.
07-09-2000, 12:11 PM
There is something called balance. An unexpected attack to the legs as with a takedown throws you off balance, even if you did have time to reach their balls you would not have hands to post with to hold your balance. You are correct it is not that hard to hurt someone, but it is not as easy as reaching for the balls when a guy takes you down. Also, would you guys use these tactics in any regular fight or only to save your life? What would you do to someone trying to use these dirty tactics to you if they failed? Just something to think about.
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