Kung Fu clips

[fa_jing]

These are pretty well done:

http://www.cheungswingchun.com/Testmov.html

[KenWingJitsu]

Examples of what NOT to do............................chase hands.

[S.Teebas]

Which clip are you refering to?

[KenWingJitsu]

Techniques 3,4 & 6. Most notably 4.

[Mckind13]

The dummy, IMO should be mounted a little better. Then we could see the kind of power being used.

David

[Stevo]

Originally posted by KenWingJitsu
Examples of what NOT to do............................chase hands.

Yes, but if he had used one move like he should have, the clip would be over so fast that you wouldn't be able to see it.

[Phil Redmond]

It's obvious that you don't understand what's going on in those clips. Especially in number 4. Chasing hands is not a thing TWC does, period. If you'd like I can send you some clips of how all those can be utilized effectively.

[foolinthedeck]

on the dummy clips, someone needs to fix that dummy up better. he's not hitting it THAT hard, also watch his footwork, not as rooted as it should be.

on the chi sao clip, the guy in black is awful, so tense, no imagination..

the chain punching is generally good as alot of people stop after the first hit, but all punches are pulled with no realism of contact, so no bridge.

[Phil Redmond]

It'll never change. WC people are always so critical of WC they don't understand. I know from experience because I used to be that way. Other martial artists laugh at the so technical non- fighting WC guys. Of course there are a few WC fighters. But in the long run I beleive they're right. As a former kickboxer/street fighter I have learned to be more open and not to criticize until I have actually experienced a fighting method. Videos and still pictures can never replace the actual feel of a technique. As for the dummy you should write and tell them that it's not to your liking. But remember, the first dummy made in HK was from plans given to William Cheung's brother by Yip Man. Maybe there is something to the way that dummy is hung. Maybe, there were limited facilities, who knows? It's better than no dummy at all right?

[KenWingJitsu]

Phil, with all due respect, and you know we see eye to eye on many things, I DO know EXACTLY what's going on in those clips. I used to do the same thing, because I used to think thats how it should be done.

Those "things" can be done in a demo. Which is what those clips are, but those things cannot be done to someone who's trying to punch your head.........for real. Period.

Stevo said it best with his response " Yes, but if he had used one move like he should have, the clip would be over so fast that you wouldn't be able to see it."
Meaning, instead of "blocking hands" (which fails most of the time), interception (closing the gap) is the only way to get to center mass which is what you should be aiming for, NOT his hands. IF the hands clash, then by all means, ton/pak/lop away. Otherwise, no need to seek it, lest you seek what's not there......which can be VERY painful.

That's all I'm saying...
for now.

[Phil Redmond]

With all respect here. I have used 2 of those techniques when I was a bouncer in CT. and in a FEW street fights. They are some of my favorites. No one was cooperating with me either ;). Did you study TWC?
Everyone has something that works for them. I use what works for me. That's all I'm saying for now.

[Mckind13]

Hey Phil,

My only comment was that if the dummy was hung better then we could have seen a little better use of the body.

I think it looked fine considering the format and that it is hard to show techniques or film WC period. I am never happy with any of the stills I see of my own work.

David

[Chango]

Stills can be even tougher. Atleast in vids one can logically plug some things in. but difficult none the less. I think this is treat to have a lineage head preforming on a video tape. For that reason alone I think these clips are cool!


Noaks , sifu

[foolinthedeck]

whatever phil,

not being critical in abad way just offering opinions. how do you teach anyone in your school without pointing out things which you see as being 'wrong' or incorrect or not good 'enough'?? if you have a problem with other people criticizing your kung fu it demonstrates an issue with your ego not with my opinions. By all means criticize my kung fu all you want, i'll just take it as positive info to learn from and another perspective.

"I have learned to be more open and not to criticize until I have actually experienced a fighting method"

so you only give opinions on what you have experienced? wow how 'closed'...

[Phil Redmond]

Hi foolingthedeck,
I'm not closed at all. I was really critical of Tai Chi until I "experienced" Chen Style. And I'm not critical of other peoples WC. If they can make it work it's all good. Even if it's different from what I do.
Paz

[curtis]

Hello Phil
I have a question about these movie clips?
When the primary Wingchun guy makes contact on the first strike, why does he disengage? On both mook jong and techniques clips after contact has been made, the main Wingchun person disengages with their opponent. Why?
After all, isn't the purpose for trapping, to feel what the opponent is going to do and shut him down before the attack can be made? By disengaging with you loose that ability to feel what is happening.
Now I'm not trying to judge what is right and what is wrong, I just trying to understand what is going on. And why?
Sincerely yours. C.A.G.

[foolinthedeck]

so you would never criticize your own experience phil?
you'd never look at your own wing chun with a critical eye?

either you are so amazing that you dont have to do so, in which case great for you, or why???

i just suggest you see your own style from my perspective and thus see differences, not necessary to see only bad things, you might see new quality.

[KenWingJitsu]

Okay, maybe we can agree to disagree then. But more importantly, maybe you can tell me what you consider "chasing hands" to be. That might be an enlightening discussion....

I have used 2 of those techniques when I was a bouncer in CT. and in a FEW street fights.

Which techs exactly?

See I know you can use a ton-sao as a 'block' I've done so...even in a street fight also. But that is not the best way to use it...because with 'blocks' (my interpretation of chasing hands)there is room for error...bad distance, fake outs, etc.
in the clips inparticular (and is that William Cheung in some of those clips? because I didnt think it was till you replied, but it's too blurry to tell)...those clips show a technique of doing a double ton or double fook/bil sao to TWO punches.
You can get away to doing it to one punch (like I said I have, and if thats what you did, good for you...I can believe it), but not to two punches. You cannot double ton/foo/bill a Jab-Cross. period. Maybe the first, but not both. Doing so is definitely "chasing hands".

[Keng Geng]

Originally posted by fa_jing
These are pretty well done:

Uh... I don't think so.

[Phil Redmond]

I can demonstrate what is going on to you when I pick up my earpiece. Is there a lot of emphasis on trapping in Wing Chun Do?

[Phil Redmond]

I am very critical of myself. I was in the "other" WC versions before I saw TWC. I had the same criticisms a lot of other people have. I used to wonder why TWC did so many moves when a simple tan da for example should work. Then I tried it. From that experience I learned not to jump to conclusions about any martial art until I see it performed and explained by a competent proponent of said style. I make my decision after seeing applications and explainations of why things are done in a certain way. Again I use the example of what I though about Tai Chi, until I saw the fighting applications of Chen style from a neighbor of mine. Now it's not WC but I saw some things that were very applicable in fights that I had never imagined Tai Chi had.

[Phil Redmond]

Hi again,
We don't chase hands. We simply occupy gates/points in space.
Chasing hands will leave you open to feints.

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/woodchi.asp#top
Here are some examples of the dummy techniques in slow motion. The dummy form helps us with different scenarios. Any disengagement is because the opponent withdrew and started another attack. Our goal is to interrupt our movement and recover to compensate for variables. There are limitations with training on a dummy for the obvious reasons. So things are going to look different.
BTW, Curtis makes great Wooden dummy arms if anyone needs replacements. I gave him the measurements for the arms on my Koo Sang dummy. Now I don't have to worry about students damaging my original arms.