seniority

[brothernumber9]

In many southern chinese styles there is a familial type of seniority or ranking i.e. Sifu, Sihing, Sije, Sidai, Simui, etc. In most schools he/she who joins before thier classmate is Sihing/Sije. Let's say student A joins before student B, both are male, so Student A is sihing to student B. However let's say student B over several years becomes unarguably more skilled and becomes an instructor. Student A is still not an instructor. Who then is considered senior? is it the student that's been there longer? or the student that's more skilled? or a mix of both? what are some peoples' takes on this?

[MasterKiller]

If it becomes an issue in the school, I say settle it in the back room. The one who walks out is the senior, the one who gets carried out is now the junior.

[CLFNole]

He is still sihing. Sihing has nothing to do with skill level its just a title in the system of a kung fu family. Sifu - father, etc... Your older brother is still your older brother. You may be smarter or more sucessful but he is still an older brother.

Few students actually become sifu's so if they do that (in most cases) it would demostrate that their sifu acknowledges their skill level and would show why the sihing was not made a sifu.

Peace.

[Arhat of Fury]

I agree with CLFnole, and a sidenote,
If something like that becomes an issue, then one has not learned the true essentials of shaolin teachings.
Not to offend anyone
Its the path, not the destination

Arhat

[brothernumber9]

it's not a problem where I train, depending on the situation we pretty much know who acts as senior. I was curious to see if any schools correlated it in that fashion, where they may use the term sihing as a be all ranking and one student who was junior would suddenly be senior and would consider himself "sihing" to the other, I'd seen it at a tournament and didn't think about it till now.

[Arhat of Fury]

Yeah, I had thought it was just an inquiry, I was curious about the same thing a while back. I have see it become a concern in some places I have trained.
Peace

[Yum Cha]

I concur with CLF nole. In our school, the way I was taught, the one who started first is the older brother. There are two parallels in a school, talent and seniority. While a younger brother may be more talented, even assigned by Sifu to act as a gau lin (instructor), the older brothers are always older brothers.

Also, there is only ever one Sifu. To become a Sifu means to leave your family and start your own. Si Hing act as Gau Lin, depending on Sifu's wishes. Sifu may tell Si Hing that they may take their own students, but those would be private students trained elsewhere, and when they visit the school, would call Sifu Si Gung, and all his Students Si Suk (like Uncles).

Just like a family, a younger brother may be better at certain things, sport, school, chicks, whatever, than his older brother, but there is still that relationship that doesn't change.

Likewise, older and younger brothers are not simply traditional substitutes for belts, though I accept that some schools may use that philosophy. It is a statement that we are a family, beyond our martial training, that there is something more to our club/school than simply who can kick who's ass.

To call someone a brother is a sign of great respect, the older and younger bit is irrelevent, the respect goes both ways, and age has a part to play as well...

At least, that is the way I was taught by two very traditional teachers.

[Serpent]

Word.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Yum Cha - why does your class need to have the atmosphere of a family?

[BeiTangLang]

Ego,..If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.

The respect for your SiHing comes from them having the experience of time "served", training from sifu that can never be retrieved, experiences of learning from lets say a sigung that passed away etc., etc. Just like a family, my little brother may be better at mechanic work that I for example, but I have the knowlwdge of several hundred other cars that he has never even been uder the hood of (for example) but just because he is better than I or maybe makes more money, he will _never_ be my big brother.

My 2 cents...
Best Wishes,
~BTL

[Brad]

Everyone from my group calls me senior because I've been there longest, even though there's plenty of others there more skilled than I am. We don't really use all that terminology that much though.