Liu Dekuan

[ngokfei]

Am looking for info on this individual. He was a general who studied alot of MA. Was a student of Dong Hai Chuan and taichi as well.

Am mainly looking for his birth and death dates as well as when he trained with dong hai chuan or any other teachers.

thanks

eric

[PHILBERT]

A little summary of his stuff (http://www.xs4all.nl/~lunatix/lukhopmoon/psllhm/lineage/LiuDekuan.html)

This German site says he lived from 1826 - 1911. (http://people.freenet.de/wushuvereinkiel/13gan.html)

If you visit this site (http://translation.lycos.com/systran/cgi?partner=systran-Lycos-en) and paste the URL of the German site, then select German to English, they will translate it so you can read it in English.

Taiji stick

Due to their length Taiji stick and Taiji speer are the weapons of the Taiji of system which can be handled most with difficulty. It belongs to a good portion of its, which on Chinese "gongfu" (technical skill) is called, around the slim, straight grown shank from the wood of the Chinese ash (bailashu, lat. to control fraxinus chinensis ). The large circling movements of the two meters long stick differ fundamentally from those of the speeres. However the noise of the stick rushing by air floesst the spectator respect and lets suspect that it is easily suitable as weapon to at one time away-sweep a whole group of humans.

The stick form in 72 motion, presented here, is a rare Kleinod. Like also the traditional sword form goes it over our teacher Wang Zhizhong and its to teacher Liu Zhigang (1888 - 1968) back on the famous master Liu DEK SCN (1826 - 1911), with pointed name "speer Liu" (there qiang Liu), which pupil of the old master Yang Luchan (179 - 1872) was.

Taiji stick (72 movements)










Names of the individual movements of the form and further photos are introduced here shortly!

back to the starting side

[ngokfei]

thanks philbert

just what I was looking for.

oh the wonders of the www

again thanks

eric

[ngokfei]

Here is what info I could find on him at present time.

Liu De Kuan (1826-1911)

n Born in 1826 in Cangzhou of Hebei Province
n enjoyed MA since his youth and became highly proficient in the spear and staff.
n he wandered the Northern Provinces for many years challenging & learning from various teachers.
n while in Henan/Hebei he learned the Ji/Halberd from Hu Tian Xiang. He learned the 6 sets or roads of Fan Tian Hua Ji - ______heaven ___ halberd
n from Lu Lin, a famous bandit he studied the (18 devil’s methods of using hands and the secrete weapon "1/2 moon dart".
n De Kuan worked in a famous security company before coming to Beijing.
n He studied Yue Style San Shou (also called Yue Style Eagle Hand or Yue Style Connected Fists) first with Xi Liu (aka metal spear), who was a student of Liu Shi Jun. Later he would continue his studies with Liu personally and specialized in both the Connected Fist techniques as well as the spear which Liu Shi Jun was very famous for. He learned the set "6 coordinations Big Spear)
n De Kuan would become known as Dai Qiang Liu/Liu the Big Spear.
n he ventures out to learn more from other famous teachers.
n has a friendly challenge with Dong Hai Chuan of BaGua Zhang but is defeated. He becomes his student then studied with many of Dong’s students. (some accounts have him only studying with Cheng Ting Hua as Dong was already dead?)(another account has him 1st studying with Cheng then being introduced to Dong)
n developed a close friendship with Cheng Ting Hua (dong’s student) who lived at Chang men Wen Wai, Huashi.
n during a friendly match between speare and stick/staff Cheng struck Liu’s thumb causing it to swell up.
n Cheng was well known in the Beijing MA community and his friends included Xing yi’s Li Cung Yi and Zhang Zhaodong. With introduction Liu was accepted by them and they openly shared their skills with each other.
n Liu studies Yang family tai chi chuan from Xi GuoShun who is the son-inlaw of Yang Lu Chan. Liu passes what he has learned on to his Ba Gua friends which ends up years later being known as "Ba Gua Tai Chi Chuan".
n after Cheng’s death in 1900 Liu became the acting teacher of Cheng’s school. He did his best to teach them and give guidance and support to the less advanced students.
n he helps Cheng You Long, the son, open up a MA school in 1903 on Ximi street of Qianmenwai, in the western sector of Beijing. He also promotes Liu Zhen Lin to assistant teacher. Together they help to preserve Cheng’s legacy.
n he develops a 64 straight line fighting set today known as Liu Style Bagua SanShou. He did this to offset the more difficult understanding of BaGua techniques when done in the more advanced circle stepping (it contains also elements of xing yi and shaolin)
n he also passes on/creates spear sets: Bamian ZhanShen Qiang/ZhanShen Qiang, Fighting Body Spear, 8 spear, black & white sparrow hawk spear & small sparow hawk spear.
n he hands down the 6 technical lu/roads of the halberd as well as various Qin Na methods.
n he hands down to various students the Liu Hei Men/6 harmony gate style which is credited to Liu Shi Jun. (oldest recorded individual who practiced this style)

n in his old age Liu hangs out with his MA friends outside the Sui Wen Gate on Ximo Street which is also where Cheng’s eldest son began teaching. Even though Liu was suffering from an eye disease which caused much lossin his vision he still accepted friendly matches with numerous students of various teachers who wanted to test his spear skills. They only needed to bring the shaft of their spear/weapon in contact with Liu’s spear shaft to try to lift it up and Liu would then stick to their spear/weapon and advance. The opponent would always lose his weapon and be thrown from his strike.
n Liu dies in 1911 at the age of 85

any additional info or corrections would be appreciated

thanx

eric

[Graculus]

Hi Eric,

Here are few more details about Liu Dekuan... from Kang Gewu's 'The Spring and Autumn of Chinese Martial Arts' (p. 78):

"Liu, also called Jingyuan, was born in Cangzhou, Hebei province. In the beginning he learned Da Qiang from Xu Liu, and later studied Ji Fa with a person called Shangguan. Towards the end of the time of Emperor Tong Zhi (around 1868) he went to Beijing to learn Ba Gua Zhang from Dong Haichuan, Tai Ji Quan from Yang Luochan, and later Yue Shi San Shou from Liu Shijun. Through study he achieved a deep understanding of the art and was inspired to create Shijun, the eight routines of Yue Shi Liang Quan. This Quan was compiled by him on the basis of Yue Shi San Shou. He also took Ba Gua Zhang San Shou as a basis to create Ba Gua Zhang Liu Shi Si Shou (64 Hands) a style which has become widely practiced."

Interesting that it says he studied from Liu Shijun after he'd started Ba Gua. It seems that Liu Dekuan was related to some of the later members of the eagle claw lineage, if not directly to Liu Shijun. Also interesting (though not mentioned in this bit) that Liu S. was regarded on a par with Dong Haichuan and Yang Lu Chan.

Also in the same book, p.74, it mentions that Liu Shijun learned Yue Shi San Shou from monk Fa Cheng, and that it had only 9 movements....3 techniques at each of 3 levels, upper, middle, lower.

Also , have you seen this.... from a section dealing with Wei Zhankui:

"A native of Lixian Hebei Province, Wei County, Zankui served with the Qing army and became a sworn brother of spearman Liu Dekuan and seven other persons who enjoyed good fame in the martial arts coterie.
?? After occupying Tianjin, the Eight-Power Allied Forces began to advance on the capital of Beijing. Their forward thrust threw the Qing court into a panic and confusion. Twenty thousand troops of the government army and 3,000 men from Yihetuan were dispatched eastwards to meet the approaching enemy. At Tongzhou, they ran into 200 vanguards of the enemy and drove them back.
?? However, when the main forces of the enemy arrived and launched a large-scale attack, most officers of the Qing army and their men, 15,000 in all, took to their heels, leaving the chief commander Li Bingheng in the lurch. Wei Zankui, who had been holding out together with the remnant government forces and was running out of ammunition, decided to break through the enemy encirclement. Knowing that the foreign invaders were only good at firearms, Wei and his men discarded their guns and took up some ancient weapons for hand-to-hand combat. As they suddenly charged into the enemy position, a scuffle ensued, rendering guns useless. Wielding his tang, a weapon with a long shaft and three prongs at the head, Wei charged ahead courageously and laid low a dozen enemies as he escorted the chief commander out of the encirclement. To rescue their sworn brothers from the siege, he and Liu Dekuan had to turn back three times, tearing through the enemy cordons unscathed. In recognition of his bravery and meritorious service, Wei gained promotion in the Qing court and the set of boxing he had used to advantage in battles was given the name of "imperial fanziquan."

I've forgotten the original site, but if you do a search on Wei Zhankui, you should be able to find it.

Hope this is useful.

Graculus