Developing power w/o heavy bags

[IronFist]

I have a wallbag and a wooden dummy but no heavy bag. I've noticed something strange (maybe not strange to you)... I can hit the wall bag hard and shake the wall. I can rock my dummy and make it move. I can break the thickest Pro-Force rebreakable board there is (not that that's hard). But, when I go to hit a heavy bag, it's like I have no power at all. Sometimes my wrist even buckles :eek:

Wtf is up with that?

I see boxers and kickboxers hitting heavy bags with loud "thumps" and the bags either fold in half at the point of impact, or go flying up in the air. But not when I do it. I might as well be slapping it.

So why can't I hit a heavy bag hard? Oh yeah, I can hit people hard, too, just not heavy bags.

[SanSoo Student]

I assume that your wallbag and wooden dummy are not filled with cotton or sand. You are using primarily the arm strength and not your whole body.
To hit a heavy bag effectively, a person needs to have good weight shifting. This is help drive the force of your arm and body weight through a targeted area.
Usually learning how to make the bag fold inwards is a direct punch with straight on force generated towards the upper torso. It can be acheive usually by starting wit a one-two punch, becuase the forward step of the jab helps create a jyro (sp?) which will drive the straight with all the weight of the upper body.
To make it fly up in the air, (still practicing this...) I think you have to hit at an angle, upward like hitting towards the face from a lower stance. The angle will cause the bag to spin and with an upward angle it will fly up. Same the happens when you do a hook on a bag the bag will spin.

[yenhoi]

Partner drills with focus mitts and thai pads will get you hitting correctly. Then refine your power on the heavy bag. You might try modifing how you are generating power when you hit the bag until you get the result you want.

Oh, and wrap your hands and/or use bag gloves until you get better at throwing full-power punches.

Making the bag fly is the same mechanic as making it bend, just 100 times more refined. Transfer your force, dont push. Hit the heavy bag like its hot (snap!)



;)

[yenhoi]

Also if you do your hooks and uppercuts and other circular punches correctly the bag shouldent spin or wobble, just thud like a straight punch. You have missed or landed a glancing blow if the bag does something besides just get smacked and go thud, bend or fly(straight.)

This is how you refine your power - by watching how the bag reacts and making minor changes to your delivery method.

Since the bag doesnt move or hit back, all you are working on is power, everything else is very minor.

:eek:

[Shaolin-Do]

I make my bag buckle and move back, then it starts swinging... So then I hit it on the way back for extra impact. Its a pain in the ass to sit and wait for it to rock back sometimes tho....

[yenhoi]

You should move with the bag imo and try and hit it solid at weird moving angles, rather then just smacking it when it comes back, wich if you do it all the time, will give you an innaccurate power reading.

:eek:

[Liokault]

You get good at what you do.

If you hit a bag a lot you get good at hitting a bag. Its not the same as being good at hitting.

I spend a lot of time on a bag (about 80 pounds....bit less may be) and can move it around and keep it up at an angle for a good long time.....can not make it fold as its kind of stiff and think in diamiter, when I move onto a speed ball (just got a new one after destroying the old one) it just wont move at all even though its much lighter.


Their is nothing to be gained from just being good at hitting a punch bag.....a punch bag is not going to hit u back, so it sounds like your hitting is going ok as it is.


The wrist thing is somthing that gets me now and again. I think that almost every one can hit harder than their wrists can take if they are punching into resistance that offers them a uncertain surface. The only way to get round this is to get used to how a bag moves and get better at hitting it.

[ComeToJesus]

You know you're hitting it right if you can deliver a hard blow and have the bag stay pretty much stationary. Punching it and having it swing all the way back, then waiting to punch it again is incorrect (but then again maybe you're just doing it for fun). Like someone else said up above, snap the punches. Hitting it hard and trying to push it away is no good.

[Vash]

Hitting a heavy bag produces good punching power. Correct practice produces good results. If the bag is the only tool used to practice striking then, yeah, strikes are gonna suck. But, it doesn't sound like that's what he's doing.

IF:

Try using particular techniques from your forms. I found that when I started hitting the bag, all I did was crumple my wrist and cut my knuckles. Then, it was suggested to me that I do my kata before bagwork, or my basiscs, or something, just to get the idea of how I'm the strike is happening.

Worked for me.

[Viper555]

How is hitting the heavy bag not going to make you have good punches??

[Vash]

What he said!

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Shaolin-Do
Its a pain in the ass to sit and wait for it to rock back sometimes tho....

You're not using your foot work then. You should be following the bag so that you can hit it whenever you want. You should be able to "walk" around the bag using combos. Paractice forward, backwards, sideways. Short measured steps so that you can keep the proper distance and still deliver power.

Didn't Shaolin Do teach you anything? :p

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Water Dragon


Didn't Shaolin Do teach you anything? :p

:D

[SanSoo Student]

A hook isn't suppose to spin the bag?
So when u step in ur suppose to in a straight line?
Becuase my hook makes a circular motion as I twist my body with a circular hit which makes the bag spin also??
Am I doing it wrong?:confused:

[Merryprankster]

To answer your question, yes, you're doing it completely wrong if the bag is flying all over the place and spinning.

If you are folding it over, that's a good thing--hitting it flush and transfering power into the bag. If you're pushing it around, that's generally not as good--means you're umm... pushing it around rather than hitting it.

A good hook should fold the bag over and hit with a nice since of solidity, even with that circular movement.

Stepping in--if you want to go straight in, ok. I'm not fond of it, but whatever. Usually, you step at angles.

[yenhoi]

Well. Remember it is a bag, not an opponent, so take this as you will, but no, the bag shouldent spin, your not connecting correctly or accuratly. Adjust your delivery until the bag doesnt spin, and then try that hook out.

Otherwise all your doing is practising a hook, but your never connecting with the meat on the bag, so you will have a hard time refining the power on your hook.. The point of the heavy bag is to refine your power.

:p

[Merryprankster]

One caveat,

IMO, using only a heavy bag will lead you to throw off-balance punches. A heavy bag "stops" you. Make sure you shadow-box and use other implements so you maintain well balance shots.

That was just my experience, mind you.

[j-himself]

good point MP.

someone said that the bag dont hit back, hell ever heard of the saying "the best defense is offence"?

as long as you have one of your hands by your head while punching, you should be fine.

[yenhoi]

I said that, because excessive use of a heavy bag will destroy your game.

Besides shadowboxing, you need plenty of mitts vs a good coach, pads vs good feeders, and progressive sparring to keep your stuff "alive."

:eek:

[j-himself]

all of what u said is true, but it still doenst relate to ur first statement. who said anything about excessive usage?

btw, does anyone use the over hand hook?

[yenhoi]

Well, MP said something about excessive usage. Kinda, anyways, I think.

Over hand hook like a palm strike? And/or hooking downwards?


:D

[Shaolin-Do]

"You're not using your foot work then. You should be following the bag so that you can hit it whenever you want. You should be able to "walk" around the bag using combos"

Cant walk around the bag, all my furniture is in the garage. (staying at my moms for a little bit). I dont push it, I buckle the shiznit. when I buckle it, it moves. Theres a couch behind it, a desk to the side, and trashcans to the other side pretty much. I only have one good place to hit it from right now. I used to have both bags set up real nice like for moving around like I was fighting 2 people... but cant do that here. No room.

"IMO, using only a heavy bag will lead you to throw off-balance punches. A heavy bag "stops" you. Make sure you shadow-box and use other implements so you maintain well balance shots."

Basically so long as you couple bagwork with some kind of speed drill with nothing to stop the punches you should be fine.

[Water Dragon]

boo-hoo. Go find a tree. :)

[Merryprankster]

I think you have a bag that's too light. Just my idea on the subject. However, I did eventually learn to fold the 80lbs bag we had over.

That took awhile. I really had to focus on the proper angle and pop.

[fa_jing]

Re hitting the bag: I feel that the conditioning to your wrists and forced alignment is a critical piece of a beginner learning to throw a proper punch. Once it is learned over several months, frequency can be decreased and the training replaced or cycled out. Or you can just keep working it. Usually the only reason not to train a heavybag is an injury or lack of equipment and space.

I think that the solidness of the bag is what it has going for it over the airshield and the like.

[Shaolin-Do]

"However, I did eventually learn to fold the 80lbs bag we had over."

Both of mine are 80 lbers. I need 100 lbs.
:)
Or Im debating refilling one with sand or the like... but I already know thatll make it devilishly hard.