Related External Styles to Tai Chi Chuan

[Empty Fist]

I know Bagua and Hsing-i are considered related/sister internal styles to Tai Chi Chuan. But what external style(s) would be considered a sister/related style to Tai Chi Chuan?

[MaFuYee]

long fist.

[Miles Teg]

Possibly Wing Chun as there are many similar elements.

[Ray Pina]

No way.

I strongly dislike the way the word "similiar" is used in martial arts all the time. Things may look alike or even similiar, but that does not make it so. It's not always what you're doing, but HOW you're doing it that matters.

I'll say it again, my dog has two eyes, a nose and a mouth: does she look similiar to you?

[Laughing Cow]

Tai Chi shares a lot of moves with other styles, but that does not make them necessarily related.

[BAI HE]

The White Crane set " Cotton Needle" is alot like the
Chen style form.

[Miles Teg]

OK then, SOME similar elements. As in, it doesnt look anything like Tai Chi but there are some similar elements that arent often found in other Martial Arts.


Eg.
Raised sacrum/anus
Tongue on the roof of the mouth
Keeping the body as realxed as possible
Head lifted with the chin slightly lowered
Sensitivity drills with partners
Whole body oneness
The concept of stick with what comes and follow with what goes
Movements guided by intent

[BAI HE]

"it doesnt look anything like Tai Chi "

No. It looks exactly like Tai Chi, single whip, roc spreads, fair lady weaves.. etc.

Being an internal/ external style, this should not be surprising.

[looking_up]

Where'd you learn this form, bai he?

[gazza99]

All martial arts share SOME sort of attribute, there are after all only so many ways to break a guys elbow or knee. However some arts touch surface level movement and mechanics, some delve into specific *jins* and alignment principles that take more time to master. Taijiquan is one that takes longer, and of course has more depth.
Perhaps you are bored and wish to research different arts and their similarities, but I would advise against training in an external art and an internal art at the same time, it can be counter productive. If Taijiquan does not do it for you martially, look into xing-I chuan, and Baguazhang as a supplement instead of an external art, if your still unsatisfied either re-exam your goals or find a better teacher.

Good Luck

Gary R.

[jun_erh]

A teachers tai chi may resemble a kung fu style depending on their personality and body type, but it's superficial

[Crimson Phoenix]

aren't there theories about the birth of taiji rderived from some external shaolin styles (i don't remember the name of the styles, 13 postures maybe)? Maybe that's a track to search...

Bai He, I'm curious a well, how were you exposed to cotton needle? And from which white crane sub-style?

[BAI HE]

I learned it in Boston from a teacher named Ching Woo in Chinatown. I am not sure about the lineage, they were always vague on that point.
It was not Fukien, but rather VERY Shaolin flavored. The same teacher also had 10 animals, I don't think he taught them publicly though.
The Sifu only spoke Cantonese so questions were herd.
The Sifu was a contemporary of Chan Hak Fu, but not of the same lineage.


BTW - I've also heard that the "Cotton Needle" may have been an
add on set or a refinement of the original Tibetan form as it
was passed down. There are sooo many theories to this.

[looking_up]

Hmmm, well I've heard of Boston and Shaolin...:)
I'm glad you got to learn what seems to me to be a pretty rare style.

[Ray Pina]

Yoga incorporates all of those practices -- including tucking the ming man --as well except for the sticking and sensitivity drills ... which are actually the same thing, or shall we say very closely related.

Wing Chun rolls its elbow. While it looks like Hsing-I does the same, it gets the same position DIFFERENTLY. I've studied both. They're not the same, right down to the stepping and mind set. Wing Chun is like a machine gun. Hsing-I like a bazooka.

[[Censored]]

They're not the same, right down to the stepping and mind set. Wing Chun is like a machine gun. Hsing-I like a bazooka.

That is a good comparison, though I think Wing Chun is closer to a glue gun than a machine gun.

[Watahhh]

doesn't legend say that Master Chan San Feng, a shaolin practitioner and taoist monk, among other things, was the father of Tai Chi Chuan?

Does shaolin incorporate chi and jing in its moves? And if so, then what is the difference between external and internal arts?

[Empty Fist]

The reason why I ask if there are any related external styles is because I don’t believe Tai Chi Chuan as well as many other marital arts go into enough depth on explaining the martial applications of the postures. Let me explain. Fair Lady at the Shuttle is a block and counter strike posture. If we look at the block function of this posture, the one question that would come into mind is how do I block an incoming strike. While this might be a simple question it is a lot more involved. One might think that you would just block the incoming striking arm. As long as the punch or strike is deflected, the block has served its purpose which is true. But the bigger question, anatomically speaking, is where would one block an incoming strike or punch. If one tries to block an incoming strike forearm to forearm, the person with the bigger forearm is going to win. However, if a person blocks an incoming punch along the funny bone (assuming an overhead strike/punch), the person’s who is executing the punch is going to have a numb arm.

[scotty1]

I don’t believe Tai Chi Chuan as well as many other marital arts go into enough depth on explaining the martial applications of the postures.

That's why you need a good teacher. If the not the fault of the system. Obviously you're not going to be able to tell where on the opponents body a movement is applied from a form. Hence the need for a teacher.

[Laughing Cow]

Empty-fist.

That is ONE of the applications for it.

If you try to counter it using force vs force yes the bigger/faster/stronger opponent will win.

Add coiling energy or Chin-na into the block and the picture changes or change your block into an attack on that limb. or use it to set up a throw.

The way I see it TJQ deflects rather than blocks.

FWIW, Chen TJQ has a few shaolin styles/forms as part of it's foundation( red fists, cannon pounding, etc).

Seeya.

[Empty Fist]

I agree. The majority of Tai Chi Chuan teachers don't go into enough depth on explaining the proper execution of the postures as to where to strike, block, and kick. Unfortunately is very difficult to find those types of teachers.

[Empty Fist]

Laughing Cow,

I agree, but you have to be taught where to block/deflect an incoming punch/strike. Unfortunately, most Tai Chi teachers don't have a clue.

[scotty1]

I agree. The majority of Tai Chi Chuan teachers don't go into enough depth on explaining the proper execution of the postures as to where to strike, block, and kick. Unfortunately is very difficult to find those types of teachers.

True, but when you do it's like discovering a gold mine.

[liangZhiCheng]

I agree, but you have to be taught where to block/deflect an incoming punch/strike. Unfortunately, most Tai Chi teachers don't have a clue.

While I agree with the latter part of the statement, I think there's a caveat to the former part about being taught where to block. The teacher is not there to spoon feed us. Each one of us needs to do our own thinking about our training and how it can be applied. This cannot be done, however, if the teacher has not given you a foundation. A potential reason for not telling you specifically where to block/deflect is that it depends on the situation. Is the person punching you? Is their elbow down or up? Etc, etc. Doing the same thing for different situations is not Tai Ji. Another point is that of "maturity". The teacher will not go into martial aspects if they do not feel the class is ready for it. This can be frustrating when you train harder than the others, but the teacher should be sensitive to this and give you a bit more. So, how do you find a good teacher? I'd suggest finding a teacher that is part of one of the 5 families, and still trains with them. Good luck.