View Full Version : Northern Shaolin - Hong, Cha, Fa, Wa, Pao
08-30-2000, 11:49 AM
I've seen many of the above northern shaolin styls. I've seen Hong, Cha, Fa and Pao and there are no " BIG" differences. Cha kuen is a bit smoother than Hong, FA and Pao. Wa kuen looks reallly impressive because it requires such great physical ability. I have only seen WA KUEN in books. That style is really acrobatic and resembles wushu the most out of the other 4 styles. The style doesn't go 5 movements without a kick. It's very hard to imagine someone pumping through an entire set of WA KUEN because they are over 180 movements. In mandarin WA KUEN AND FA KUEN are both named " HUA QUAN" so don't get it mixed up. Has anyone seen this on film? Thanks
"I've seen many of the above northern shaolin styls. "
The Zha Quan (Cha) system is not Shaolin. It is sometimes referred to as Islamic Long Fist. The HUI people in China were famous for it and the HUI are an Islamic minority different from the HAN. Wang Ziping is a recent 20th century example of a Zha Quan system master.
"I've seen Hong, Cha, Fa and Pao and there are no " BIG" differences. Cha kuen is a bit smoother than Hong, FA and Pao. "
Exactly so. They are related and have different flavors if you know what to look for but the roots are the same. Hua Quan uses a lot of low to high and moving from low to a high kick. That is why it is so physically demanding. But you would be hard pressed to point out a large number of major differences.
"Wa kuen looks reallly impressive because it requires such great physical ability. I have only seen WA KUEN in books. That style is really acrobatic and resembles wushu the most out of the other 4 styles. "
Guess what, modern wushu was based largely on Zha Quan (#4 routine) and somewhat on Hua Quan. Whereever they opened up the Changquan into bigger movements, they often looked at Hua Quan.
"The style doesn't go 5 movements without a kick. It's very hard to imagine someone pumping through an entire set of WA KUEN because they are over 180 movements. "
The entire Zha Quan system (10 Line Tan Tui, Zha Quan, Pao Quan, Hong Quan, and Hua Quan) are northern and favor kicking...although there are a lot of hidden wrestling moves in them as well.
08-31-2000, 07:10 AM
Thanks for the informative post. So you haven't seen WA KUEN? I'd have to say that WA KUEN is the most physically demanding out of the 5. I have learned a few sets from the Hong or " shaolin" style that KWL and WJM teach. I have learned #5 from the Cha kuen style. I'm very interested in seeing the Wa Kuen in motion.
The major routines left in the Hong Quan section are just 2 (Xiao Hong Quan and Da Hong Quan). Small and large respectively.
The Xiao is not often seen but that is primarily because the large set is more interesting and demanding physically. Even at that, Da Hong Quan is not as physically difficult as the ZhaQuan sets.
The Zha Quan sets teach a lot of fluidity and how to mix the stance changes with the typical broken rhythm of the entire system. Many people learn the moves but never get the rhythm.
Pao Quan is similar in difficulty to Zha Quan with a few more agressive moves. Hong Quan from seems to me to be more application oriented if you look. Tan Tui is application focused as well as basics focused. Then the Hua Quan tends to be just plain tough. Very flowing but to get it that way you have to have a very solid foundation.
08-31-2000, 09:14 PM
I was looking over the WA KUEN books I have and I noticed that 50% of the moves are exactly the same as CHA KUEN. They might have a little different flavor to doing their moves but as far as I can see, half of it is identical. Glw, if you can please email me at
Talk to you then.
08-31-2000, 09:36 PM
Thanks for the insult. I need a good laugh to wake me up in the morning. By the way, how come you never gave us the address or phone # of your " monkey style" kung fu school?
ON a more serious note.
Which of the Hong, Cha, Fa, wa, Pao have you learned? What differences do you see bud? WA is very different. HONG, Fa and Pao are very similar. Cha has transition movements that make it smoother.
08-31-2000, 11:43 PM
thats not the real sifu able its a poser!!
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