Shaolins destruction !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spearwarrior]

Shoalin schools all around Shaolin Henan province will be pulled down within 2 years, this however shocking to people in the know is going to happen.
Along with my training, i did some research and with titbits from many different people assures me this to be true.
Made freinds with a chinese student who told me even up to the Dharma Hotel will be turned into a scenic wonderland, couldnt email from there as i felt like i was being watched.
Got some footage of the buildings all around the temple being pulled down.
The day before we left all the little shops around and even opposite the temple, were subjected to an invasion of goverment officials, army and police before the diggers took over.
A sad sight as all the poeple moved there belongings onto trailers and moved away.
My freinds and i split by accident and they ended up training with the secular disciple union before it was pulled down and was chased into the mountains by the army.
They then moved to Fang Wang Temple near to Donfeng, they finished there training there.
All shoalin schools are to move to in and around Donfeng, along with the all the businesses in the area.
This was confirmed near to the end of my trip by one of the shop owners whom i also made freinds with.
Yes the training was very good and would go again, they work very hard, and while we were there trained 7-8hrs a day, every day ( except when raining !!! )
Thanks to Stumblefist for all your help.
I think this is the true meaning of forum, not just to sit in front of your keyboards.
Help from people who have been there and in return maybe one day to help them.
Peace
P.S.
BARRY: old Irish name, translated into English as Spearwarrior. :( :eek:

[Heming]

Greetings SpearWarrior,
This is Heming from the Secular Disciple's Union,
Shaolin Temple Secular Disciple's Union still exist and it is the only training place in Shaolin now, the FaWang Temple in your message actually means "Dharma King Temple" in English, which has 2000 years history in Songshan mountain, did you been there Barry?

Thanks very much for your message, wish you have a wonderful kungfu training with your masters.

Heming, yours kungfu friend in Shaolin Temple

Heming
Shaolin Secular Disciple's Union,
Shaolin Temple, Mt.Song, Henan 452491, P.R.China
Tel: +86(371)2749172
ICQ#: 17145752
Email: webmaster@shaolintemple.zzn.com
http://shaolin1500.com
http://photos.yahoo.com/mrheming

[Heming]

Oh , by the way I think I know the shop owner you mentioned, he is a very nice man who is running the tiny shop with his wife there, Mr. Ma Xiao Ming (or "Mashiming" as others pronounce it), right? I guess you must drink coffee and eat instant noodles alot there everyday, huh?

Heming again

Heming
Shaolin Secular Disciple's Union,
Shaolin Temple, Mt.Song, Henan 452491, P.R.China
Tel: +86(371)2749172
ICQ#: 17145752
Email: webmaster@shaolintemple.zzn.com
http://shaolin1500.com
http://photos.yahoo.com/mrheming

[GeneChing]

So many people miss how spectacular that mountain is.

I was at Shaolin last Sept. (2001) for the festival and they were in phase 2 of the relocation. Chen Tongshan's school (the first wushuguan, then the first private school, and the school of movie ingenue Chen Xiaolong) was being evacuated right in the middle of the festival! Many other schools had been shut down in the valley, but most of them had already relocated to Dengfeng. Now that's where all the schools are. Taguo was still standing, but it's rumored that they've already purchased a large lot of property in Dengfeng and that they will come down in phase 3. The valley is getting noticibly quieter. If all the schools move to Dengfeng, it'll be very hard to keep track of anymore - there are so many there now and Dengfeng is pretty spread out. Things were much easier when it was all in the valley.

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Stumblefist
...snipped...
Anyone here climbed SongShan or environs?

I went up SongShan (the stairs anyway) to Da Mo's cave in June last year. Very nice view from up there of the valley. I gotta ask a question though... on the mountain across the valley from Songshan, it looked like there were ski lift trams or something going up it. Was it high tension wiring from the resevoir outside the valley?? Just curious & never got around to asking.

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Stumblefist
Sean: How did you get to the stairs? Did you access after entry through the Stone Archway (triple archway where there is a 40 yuan entrance fee)? Were there other trails up?
According to the map i got, the cable car goes to Er Zhu temple on top of Bo Yu Mountain. whiich is to the SW of the temple, Dharma cave being the North of the temple and Songshan being accross the road and to the East. But maybe Songshan also has a Cableway.
I suspect the only access to Bo Yu Shan and Dharma cave ...that whole environs ... is throught the triple archway, though therre may be some backdoors...

But in either case neither Dharma cave nor Bo Yu Shan is Song Shan which is in the direction out from the archway towards and beyond the bus station and across the road. Dharma cave is up behind Shaolin Temple. Songshan is elevation 1440 and across the road from Bo Yu Shan. I was told it was accessible from Dengfeng. Thing is, i wonder if all these places are publicly accessible. I'd like to spend some time hiking and discovering the trails there. I climbed Taishan last week ...twice!!! I love mountains.
....................


Stumble... I was still pretty much in a jet lagged haze when I was there so I'm not sure of my cardinal directions, but from the temple & walked down towards the Pagoda Forest, hung a right on a pretty well worn path, went past a smaller temple on the way to the stairs that went up to Da Mo's cave. There were guys at the foot of the path that charged 5 yuan a head to drive you up to the foot of the starway on these little 3 wheel bikes. I took one on the way back down.

On a side note, I did intially take a wrong turn & went up a path directly next to the temple & ended up going to the peak directly behind the temple to the point of not being able to continue because the path ran out. There was a short climb to the top of that peak, but as tired as I was I didn't want to do anything remotely hazardous.:D

[GeneChing]

Things have changed a lot. I doubt there were more than a few dozen schools still occupied in Shaolin Valley, if even that as of last Sept. They've all moved to Dengfeng. There's some ungodly amount in Dengfeng now.
As for the Abbot's sphere of control, that's a good question. Many people are quick to blame the abbot for all this since he is so prominent, but actually most of the backing is coming from Dengfeng. Think about it - who stands to gain the most here? If all the industry moves down from the valley into Dengfeng, it's much more controllable. And if you read carefully into the announcements, they all have offical stamps from Dengfeng gov't officials. Nobody wants to kill the golden goose here. They just want they eggs to be laid where they can be collected with ease.
I'm not sure which drop off you mean - I thought most Zhengzhou buses dropped off in front of Taguo village. I've never taken that bus. I've almost always had somebody to pick me up.

The stone stairway to the cave is cool, but there's a better back trail to go up. Take a left at the triple arch, cross the field and climb the ridge. Then take the stairs down.

There are 2 cableways now. One is the old ski lift opposite Tamo's cave that takes you to the 2nd Patriarchs' temple. The second one is a new deluxe one that takes you up Songshan, but it's an expensive ride.

Funny, you should mention Taishan. Our next issue focuses on Shandong and I did a little travel piece about when I climbed Taishan in 91. I wish I could climb it again. You're so fortunate. Climbing chinese mountains is where it's at!

And as for Songshan, Tamo's cave ain't the half of it. You got to try the back trail to the suspension bridge. Go to the end of the valley and pick up the trail head. The cliff trail is intense!

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Stumblefist
Sean, thanks for the additional information.
Now, according to my maps if you are at Damo's Cave facing Shaolin the road is down to your left and up again from that is Junli Peak and down to your right a bit to the pagoda forest tombs and up again is another mountain (or another peak of Songshan) where there is the Erzu Templeand a cable going to it.

Stumble... that was the view I was talking about. Thanks!!

Looks like the next time I'm there I have to stay longer & walk more. Where can I get the maps you're talking about? Are they available here in the states or are the local to the Dengfeng area only?

I wanted to get to the Dragon Pools but the map I had was drawn on a napkin from the wushu guan cafeteria by a guy I was with to get me to Da Mo's cave only. Dadgummed tour groups...

[GeneChing]

They're really hard to find. It's better to have someone take you. They are in a small ravine that is on the south side of Shaolin valley, where a guy used to ride across a cable on a bicycle every day as some kind of tourist stunt, or at least so I'm told. It's a steep climb to get down to them too. To be honest, I'm not sure I could find them again now that the village on the south side is gone and along with it, my landmarks.

[sean_stonehart]

Ah... thanks for the heads up Gene. I'll keep that in mind. :)

[GeneChing]

...that's the best hike on songshan. You'll find a pic of a big suspension bridge on your ticket if you buy one. POint and ask and they direct you. I found it by accident. I was looking for the dragon pools and missed big time. But it was one of the most fortuituous accidents ever.

[yearofdragon76]

sean i know of the way you took but when i was there (1997)you could hardly call them stairs..lol

[yearofdragon76]

when i walked up the cliif I took a rout through the pagoda forrest and then through a small village like section on the base of the mount...it was summer and extremely hot and as you went up there was of course peddlers selling water and drinks...then you walked to a point wherer there was supposedly stairs at one point but were crumbling and then it was basically scaling the mountain..it was funbut very excerting...we saw the cave then went to the statue and looked at the view from there...does the statue still stand?..I saw and new of the cable but the way I went was free...just a little hazardous long and physical..but fun.
I din't have the map we just walked dirt paths and ask the locals wich way to go till we started going up.