Hats Off to ILLUSIONFIST

[The Willow Sword]

man i was posting on the other thread and got booted off and was like aaarrrghhh!!! but i was ranting again ut at then end i was decsribing my meeting with ILLUSIONFIST today so i will post that. Illusionfist and i had a wonderfull exchange of forms ideas and an overall air of respect and good mannerism was created between us,,,i am speaking for myself here and hopefully he will post his impression of our meeting. mine was a very good one..it was hot and humid in the park and we got tired and sweaty ,,but during this time we were able to respectfully show our forms and knowlegde(some of it) and i was thoroughly impressed with illusionfists hung-gar system. our hsingi's were different but i could acknowlege the similarities to mine and his forms were great to watch. i have a better impression of "sun" style taichi... he showed me his hung gar sets including his fu hok,,and i showed him my pakua and hsingi and yess,,,,he even got to see the buddah fist form that all of you are trashing as a result of seeing the mullins vid clips. i demonstrated a couple of SD forms and i feel that if he did not think that they were any good he would have said so. even through the politeness he is pretty forthright with his comments and opinions. we also dod a bit of push hands and we excel each other in certain aspects of that but i feel that his push hands were more solid than mine( i dont have a partner to practice this drill which i desperatly need) overall the meeting was good and i hope that he and i can get together again,,,,,so as the title to this post states,,HATS OFF TO YOU ILLUSIONFIST :cool: thankyou and many respects to you and your students.
Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[joedoe]

Yeah, but illusionfist sucks :D

Just kidding. It is good when you can actually meet someone in person whom you converse with on KFO.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

[fiercest tiger]

wipe it up, its coming out of your mouth now...

thats great guys, did you spar to see who was better? :p

just kidding :)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[illusionfist]

I definitely had a good time, although i wish i had more time to go over stuff. **** family!!

Its very enlightening to see the differences in other peoples technique. I can definitely attest to TWS' having a TOTALLY different flavor to that of which is shown on the various SLD vids on the net.

I had fun and i'll definitely be going up again soon.

Peace :D

[J]

Illusionfist,

Each practitioner will have a different expression of SLD depending on the person and instructor. It also depends on which generation the instructors come from. The core movements will be similar, but the expression will vary. Some fast, some fluid, some powerful, some jagged, etc...

Willow Sword: Who is your instructor?

J

PS Illusionfist, have you heard from the old gang from the chatroom? What's new with all of them?

[The Willow Sword]

my Teacher is Master Joe Shaefer of the SD school in austin Texas. I have also trained with Gm Sin The' amd master mullins and master Bill Leonard(these are seminars that they have held) My main instruction in SD has come from Master Joe.
Got your Email illusionfist,,Yes I agree. Cant wait to see the pics.
MAny Respects, Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[brassmonkey]

I find this thread refreshing change and would like to know who rates these threads and why give this 1 star?

[Radhnoti]

Brassmonkey, you'll note that most the threads (at least right now) started by an admitted SD student get low stars. The star system is not in the hands of the moderators. At the bottom of the screen is the "Rate Topic" drop down box, you can rate any thread.
Hope this helps.

-Radhnoti

[billy_pilgrim]

I agree with brassmonkey! This thread is refreshing. Much better than that other tired one where people ask SD students honest questions about their style, history and forms, and receive nothing in the way of answers. Yes, this one's much better! Let's all stop asking these guys questions that they refuse to answer. When they tell us that they are learning original Pa Kua, original Bak Mei, and the rest of us are learning modern wushu, tantamount to garbage, we should just smile and not ask them a single question about their original Pa Kua or their original Bak Mei, or their original Tai Chi which looks like the 20th century compulsory PRC version, or their LHPF which looks like the wushu version, , or the two form versions of the other 50 styles they know which look nothing like the styles referenced, why? Because they and only they have the originals!

[The Willow Sword]

All Pakua is derived from "dong hai chuan"
All Taichi is derived from " Chang seng feng"
all hsingi is derived from "Marshal YEUH Feh"
All Shaolin kungfu is derived from "shaolin temple"
Listen dipsh!t. maybe the reason why we do not answer the questions that you pose is that WE DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWErs and could care less about it AND WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
WE TRAIN TO DEFEND OURSELVES,PRESERVE AN ANCIENT SYSTEM AND ABOVE ALL KEEP OURSELVES IN SHAPE. UNLESS YOU HAVE ANYTHING POSITIVE TO ADD TO THIS THREAD,,,FUK OFF!!!!! OH AND BY THE WAY READ MY QUOTE BILLY,,,,ITS MEANT FOR YOU.


Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[Waidan]

Capslock - just say no.

TWS
Not flaming here at all (seriously), I'm just wondering how it came to be that bagua and taiji were being tought in the Shaolin Temple? Or were they? It just seems odd (though not impossible) that two fundamentally (understatement) taoist arts would be trained and passed on by buddhist monks.

thanks :)

[The Willow Sword]

bagua did not originate at the temple,,but was later adopted into the temple as was many other systems. pakua is relatively new when compared with other systems that have been around for centuries. since the shaolin temple was not entirely buddhist, in my opinion before i joined SD, it supports the clain that pakua was there later on,,plus the origins of pakua are a mystery. it was believed that a monk taught this to him while on his travels,,there are those who state that the monk was a Taoist monk others think it was maybe a shaolin monk,,the principlea are taoist yes but that, i believe, is dong hai chuans' contribution to the system. who knows for sure,,since we all can recognize that shaolin was at the forefront of martial arts study it would there fore be logical to assume that a variety of things were taught there,,,,,this all goes back to my theories that the Shaolin temple was in fact a military training center for the emperor and his armies. the buddhist aspect of the temple is there yes but as i have been stating before THERE IS NO FIGHTING ASSOCIATED WITH BUDDHISM. What part of that dont you understand.
are we so wrapped up in fantasy that we cannot even begin to see the obvious here. As all of you so eloquently state about my apparent system being fraudulant and fake.
Many respects, Willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[The Willow Sword]

If a monk taught this system to dong hai chuan then pakua has been around alot longer than we realize. China has kept itself relatively secret for the past 100 yrs or so since the openeing of its doors thanks to Nixon. but when we look at the broad perspective of chinese culture ,,population,,poltics and the shaolin temple hopefully we can see a diverse and extensive grouping of systems within thier fighting techniques. it is also believed that pakua was created at wudang. which is a taoist order. the claim that shaolin martial arts was practiced there as well as other temples can be disputed till the moon blows up but again as i stated earlier when you look atthe range of diversity in the culture of china ,,you see the systems being utilized and taught everywhere there. or so we are told. could it be that what GM sin knows are some of the Secrets that the temple had due to his teacher ie chang ming? That if a temple dedicated to preserving these fighting arts and being so diverse as it was that
just about every type of fighting with the exception of some was taught there? i can buy this thoery and agree with it fot it makes sense to me. the only thing specific to shaolin is the 5 animal fists, and the i chin ching muscle tendon changing classics taught by Ta Mo,,the rest is an accumilation and an adoption of other systems. we have discussed this before on other threads that when new regimes were being created and the old generals were being killed off,,some of them escaped to the temples to live in seclusion and eventually taught thier fighting techniques to the monks. but going on my theory that the shaolin temple was a military training center for the emperors one can also see that fighting,,being a central focus in the temple,,was studied extensively and anyting that was of value to them was accepted,,such as the story of how the praying mantis system came to be at the temple. hopefully my ideas here are a testament to my knowledge and dedication to this art through the SD school. whether you want to believe that what we have is an authentic system that keeps true with the original teachings there is irrelevant to most of us at SD. it is interstin to me that BILLY PILGRIM as well as others state that the animal systems and styles that are taught at SD look nothing like the styles represented....i wonder if what you are learning is the TRUE WAY THE SYSTEMS ARE DONE? You believe in whatyou are doing to be true ,,yes? so are we...but that does not make our system any more greater or lesser than yours and i apologize for those naive souls in our organization that tell you this,,instructor or student. No two tigers will look alike and o to cranes will either,even though they are both tigers and both cranes. so our movements are more power oriented and focus on the strike as well as the movement but this is typical of COMBAT forms. and your tiger looks like something else other than ours. i have seen other styles and when i compare i do not state that " hey that looks nothing like what i do that sucks" how arrogant and naive of a thing to state about another system. really kids i would implore you all to stop with the mouth boxing and get with the notion that what YOU ALL DO is not WHAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES.
MAny Respects ,,Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I think there is a fine line of distinction between things that follow the same principles but have different interpretations, and things that seem to follow the gross motions / or not even that and claim to be the same thing.

WTS, I'm looking forward to meeting you someday, because I think it would be really cool if SD had some nifty gems tucked in it. BUT - everyone who does any CMA looks at Sin The' and goes WHOA - karate man. Not - hmm combat style. Karate man is the response.

I think that is where most people are coming from on this. Not 'this isn't exactly like what I do', but 'that looks nothing like anything else with that name, does not follow the same principles, and in fact, looks very questionable.'

Hey, I'm open minded, but even you have to wonder about this. Either the stories of it being original are true, or a good chunk of this was made up by Sin.

And, this is my last post on this. I'm bored with it, and I don't see any point in these threads any longer.

Everybody go out and buy the book 'True Beleiver' and I'll feel like my job is done.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[billy_pilgrim]

What a great response, no, hats off to you TWS!

I believe Illusionfist when he says you have a different "flavor" than other SD guys, but you certainly seem no different than any other I've encountered.
I mean, it was only a matter of time before you threw a public tantrum(or another tantrum I should say)...and all because someone did the unthinkable...ask you a couple of technical questions about what it is that you're doing...questions you still can't answer by the way.
I don't know why you care what everyone else says, I mean, we are all just a poor misguided lot who are doing modern wushu, remember! I don't have the good fortune you do to have access to authentic Shaolin Kung Fu, I mean, I live in a city that only has three SD franchise schools, so you can imagine the bind I'm in!
You are right about one thing though, I certainly am a dipsh!t...oh, and whenever you can answer a single one of these dipsh!t's questions, just let me know...

[billy_pilgrim]

Since you sort of asked a question, I'll grant you an answer, even though you are not as forthcoming...I understand though, you guys have ancient monastic secrets to protect, you can't just be opening up schools on every street corner teaching anyone with a buck...

Some of the differences between what I do and what you do is...
What I do was never called "karate", and doesn't look like it either.
What I do doesn't have Shotokan katas integrated into the curriculum and doesn't contain any Japanese weaponry.
What I do has some similar principles in other systems, I can look at those systems and see a relationship, the antithesis of SD, which can find no commonality between any other CMA...Which brings me to my last point...
All of you SD guys keep making this a personal thing and saying, "just cause it doesn't look like what you do, doesn't mean it ain't Chinese!" That, of course, is exactly right, problem is that I've never said anything like that. My problem is not that it doesn't look or act like what I do, my problem is that it doesn't look or act like any other CMA, it doesn't even look or act like the versions of other CMA's it has "collected" over the years, yes, like Bak Mei, like 7*, etc...
I mean, I still haven't met one person who studies these systems who recognizes the SD versions, not one...
By the way, are you including yourself in the list of "naive souls" whom you are apologizing for? I seem to recall you telling a Bak Mei practicioner on this very forum that he was learning wushu, because he had the audacity to look at the SD "Bak Mei", and call it what it is..

[reemul]

The animal systems are not taught at the SD schools. Each animal system is comprised of a lifetime of material. That is why mastery of multiple animal systems is not recognized by terms laid out under precommunist Shaolin era. Mastery of a system was defined as Life devotion. the endeavor to master more than one system was a
contradiction to the definition of mastery. As well if you had been excepted into an animal system the other masters would not take you on as a student let alone a desciple. If you guys have any of the animal systems(and I'm not willing to concede that you do) your knowledge
is by far incomplete at best.

[Radhnoti]

Replying to billy:
No Shotokan kata. I studied karate for a year, I have a friend who instructs. He thinks the long forms we do are entirely impractical as they aren't linear enough. Went into detail earlier about the whole, "Why was it called karate and what's with the Japanese elements?" You can look it up if you want. What weapons do you imagine (besides, perhaps, the katana) the Japanese had access to that the Chinese did not?
For the most part I've been able to avoid taking anything said "personally", despite several attempts at personal attack.
Couldn't the fact that it doesn't "look like the forms it's collected" indicate that MAYBE "it" didn't collect those forms? No one's EVER told me of a video or book that they were certain GM Sin took material from. If anyone can, I'd appreciate it...I need all the help with the forms I can get.
It surprises you that TWS reacted to an attack on the authenticity of SD? Why? You expected him to accept a judgement of a RealPlayer online video by someone he doesn't know? I'm glad TWS met with illusionfist and the two of them found common ground and at least a bit of mutual respect. It gives me a bit of hope for SD's future as a part of the kung fu community.

-Radhnoti

[reemul]

But Illusion fists commentary of the meeting is vague at best. Sounds to me like he's being PC about the whole thing, however I could be wrong.

[Radhnoti]

Maybe, maybe not. If he were to come forth and give TWS the "thumbs up", saying what he did definitely had CMA style I'm fairly certain he'd come under attack.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[The Willow Sword]

REEmul: The animal systems Are Taught in the Sd school curriculum. the belts from white to green is just an introduction into what is coming your way in the brown belt degrees 1st 2nd 3rd. i will not go into it but suffice it to say that what is being taught is Crane and tiger,,even in the 1st degree BB curriculum you are being taught more tiger,,which is typical od a Southern system of CMA,,however there are other areas with which one can choose to excel in,,whereas i have the crane and tiger forms that system is not me. i turned inward and do the internal stuff that i focused MAINLY on during my time at the SD school in Austin. I am still going to use MY tiger Against your VERY RARe AND MYSTERIOUS Northern Shaolin tiger. We will see who has the tiger concepts down and who does not. keep on Barkin.
BILLY PILGRIM: there is no why there is no how the moment simply is. i give you the tralfamadorian greeting: HELLO FAREWELL,,HELLO FAREWELL, eternally (something i forgot) Eternally embraced,,HEllo FArewell.

Billy, it is a shame that you are wanting answers to questions that you yourself ,in your own mind already answered for yourself.
As for Illusionfist,,i respect his silence in this,,we have already spoken about it and we understand each other on this subject and thread.
so dont try to squeeze blood from a rock you will waste yourtime trying with him. AS for me.
i am still here and still wanting to make good connections with fellow martial artists,,i know that through this forum i have to weed through the trash and crap to get to the honey.
As for the Bak Mei practitioner calling our SD forms what "they Are" i call most of what i have seen WUSHU,,a lot of dancy prancy looking performance artist kung fu,,not to say that WUSHU is inferior in any way,,,hey i respect all martial arts,,even what REEmul does even if it comes under scrutiny as well. sorry if i insulted the WUSHU artists out there but we At SD and myself do COMBAT FORMS.. which are different in style and look to the modern WUSHU that most seem to practice. im sure that you get alot of combat applications and some flexability and speed but with no power behind it,,you are just "dancing" "prancing"... southern styles like hung gar which i have seen illusion fist do have the combat look and feel to it for it is a FIGHTING FORM,,,but he and i do some of the same internal stuff be it different looking due to different teachers/ school. Hey listen billy i really feel that what you do is what you do,,and hey man i respect it,,even though i have no idea what you do,,hey you might even be a disciple of ole BOB KLIEN i would still respect it,,for what it is right? ;) and anyway Billy I AM someone who is not very concerned with the past of someone with whom i feel his life is NO BUISINESS OF MINE,,,,,Ican say that i have net GM SIN i have trained with GM SIn(in seminar) and have had TEA with GM sin and you know the difference between me and you, DipSh!t, is that when i have an opportunity to talk with GM sin i Usually want to ask him How he is doing or how the nice the weather is or just talk about nothing really. Not scrutinize the man.
It is real easy for you and me to talk this diatribe on line and in forum,,,but until you are able to really stand by your convictions and walk up to one of us and let us know how you are really feeling and be a MAN about voicing your opinion instaed of hiding here,,AS REEMUL does then i suggest that YOU STFU! and do something else than try to rattle rpouse a respectfull thread that i have sent to illusionfist.

HEY PEOPLE, Come november,,when i go to Austin, and hopefully other Austin KFM Forum members come to this event that REEMUL will not show up to,,im almost certain of THAT, when this time comes i hope that i can at least make some good contacts and allies and possibly even some friends and at Least help to earn some respect for an organization that I FEEL deserves some respect. Believe me I CAN AND WILL REPRESENT MY SCHOOL WELL. I will show you that what we do is NOT KARATE ANd THE SYSTEMS WE DO ARE WELL TAUGHT AND WELL LEARNED. AND WELL APPLIED :)
Many Respects,,Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[reemul]

How will you show anyone that what you do is not karate. Many members have seen SD up close and personal and that is how they make the connection.
Not to mention fighting will only serve to prove who is the better fighter not who's system is lagit. There are plenty of good combative karate pracitoners. Lets face it, you're challenging me because you have a bruised ego and your faith has been called into question. You want redemtion in the eyes of your peers because you're unable to find it within yourself. So much for internal training.

Also, if your so certain I won't show, why go through the trouble of bringing the challenge at all. Are you that insecure?

The fact that you get so bent because people question the validity of SD and don't believe in it like you, tells me that you don't seem too sold on it either. If you were I don't think you would be as upset about it. The torment lies in coming to the realization that the years spent training were all for not. The harsh reality of years of deception and tears of denial. Buddha Blesses you my friend.

[The Willow Sword]

it looks to me that you are still trying to, and not doing a good job, wussy out of this. remember your original post " SD Sucks". well its going to be proven that it does NOT suck and that what i do is CMA. it is a shame that you are a coward and a wuss with a martial art that is just as in question and scrutiny as mine. believe me Reemul noone is getting on your bandwagon on this one. YOU in fact initiate the challenge with your comments,,your disrespectful comments,,what is going to be taught to you is how you should NOT make comments like that on a forum where there are certain individuals that CAN and WILL answer your comments personally. it is convienient for me that you are in Austin and my school and teacher are there. This is not about bruised ego any more REEMY Dear this is about principles and standing up for them and meeting the challenge head on regardless of the outcome. "sooner or later, when you jump on the tigers back,,the tiger is going to shake you off,,rip you to shreds have you for lunch,,Sh1T you out and move on".
notice also REEMY Dear that noone here is jumpin to your aid in this one. why? because some of the forum members here know who i am.....who are you ,,mystery northern shaolin tiger?
Many Respects,,Willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[BeiKongHui]

Could you challenge a grammer teacher in your quest to convince us all of the awesome power of Shaolin Do. All the **** COMMAS are driving us all crazy! I prefer my comedy readable thank you.

"To the extreme!"
--Poochie

[reemul]

How do you come to the conclusion that I am a coward and wuss?

By the way, when people come to our school, never has anyone made the comparison to karate.

[Radhnoti]

...so far the only person that's seen TWS doing forms on this forum has said, "I can definitely attest to TWS' having a TOTALLY different flavor to that of which is shown on the various SLD vids on the net."
Meaning, one would assume, it didn't look like karate.
I'm already "on record" about what I feel is the foolishness of judging a system's "flavor" via realplayer.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[reemul]

I suppose you could make that assumption or you could make a totally different assumption. The remark is still vague.

[The Willow Sword]

well let me see now umm,,well first of all Reemul has not let us know who he is,,I HAVE let people know and i have always let folks here know who i am for i have nothing to hide.
another thing is that a comment such as "SD sucks" denotes to me a Cowardly comment. And i NAIVE ONE,,oh yes the response will be "well how about you being so nAIVE as to be following something that is not what it claims" and blah blah blah blah,,,,,,,,ive heard it all. so far we have also not heard anything from you about what you study or practice. All that i have been able to find out is that you do some extremely rare form of Northern shaolin tiger(which is questionable) and that you do this "tiger Taichi".
is there some suprise awaiting us all come november reemul??? hmm i wonder. you have also not stated where you would like to meet in Austin since you have apparently accepted my challenge.
you have not stated where you have taken SD before and who the instructor was and so forth. It puts a theory in my mind that YOU ARE BS'ING YOUR TRIP HERE. Whereas many think that what i do is BS,,I havent been BS'ing my trip here.
Also what makes me laugh is that you state that" There are plenty of good combative karate practitioners out there". so essentially what you are saying is that in your mind you are going to be up against a "Karate practitioner" and that this will prove who is the better fighter not whose system is legit. so,,Reemul,,if we spar and its your "kungfu" AGainst my "Karate" and i knock you on your ass silly. What it is going to then prove is that my "karate" is better than your "kungfu" and it will show others that will witness the event that your "Rare kungfu(cma)" is a bunch of BS and that my "karate" is not a bunch of BS. this is a pleasant fiction for me because what it is generating in my mind is that it is going to be YOUR TIGER AGAINST MY TIGER,,and YOUR KUNG FU AGAINST MY KUNGFU(CMA). dont worry i will not be in a GI, to give you any false assumptions about my forms being "karate""shotokan" whatever you call it. i will be in my kf pants and my SD t-shirt. I cant wait for this,,i relish the idea of going to austin to meet you and do Forms, and spar. Believe me when i say that i respect you as a antagonist and look forward to crossing hands with you. but yes i have made the judgement that you will not show up to this,,and we will all be standing there laughing are asses off at you,,whom ever you are, and then it will be a exhibition of our different styles and hopefully a drink and apps at chuy's..... ;)
Many respects,,Willow sword
oh and BKH:"YO MAMA"
Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$. :p

[reemul]

What do you want to know about our system.
It's nice to know you will come dressed for the event, will you also be endorsing Pepsi. hahaha

Actually holding true to my word, I have not yet accepted your "internet challenge". As I have said, challenges are made in person. However I have maintained that if you bring the challenge I will accept it. Nov. is a ways off I don't feel the need concern myself with where it will be right now. I have more pressing matters to deal with than you.

[Radhnoti]

LOL
"I have not yet accepted your "internet challenge""?!?
I naively thought this would actually happen, I see now that reemul will find a way to make sure it doesn't. MUCH respect to TWS for courageously defending his style and system. I have no doubt that he was being honest about his intentions the whole time. Just goes to show that sometimes it's best to just say, "screw it" and step forward for what you believe in.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[BeiKongHui]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> i will be in my kf pants and my SD t-shirt [/quote]

Will you also be sporting the official Sin The/Shao-lin Doh mullet?

"To the extreme!"
--Poochie

[Brad]

Actually Reemul has stated this several times. He has said he wont fight unless TWS makes his challenge in person. Of course it would be a lot easier if he gave his school address, and hours of operation. There's still a long way to go till the "deadline" though. You guys need to read more carefully.

[Radhnoti]

OK...so it's "Yeah, I'll accept your challenge...if you can find me. Nyah, nyah."?
Gotcha.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[The Willow Sword]

The question is whether or not he will show up to the designated area in Austin to meet the challenge,,it has been made on this forum and from all accounts it seems that REEM a Mule has accepted through this forum. it will probably be stsed in the coming weeks that i have to go to his school and make it there. however being the times thatthey are i am attempting to make this on neutral grounds,,this is actually how it is done fellas, this is the protocol,,i am making the INVITATION to meet and challenge and REEM a MULE here has to decide whether or not he is going to be a puss and decline or accept and show up. Maybe i should be more Official like: okay here goes:
REEMUL
I Jason Bratcher from the SD school have been insulted by your comments on this forum regarding our School. I would like to personally invite you to a meeting in november(date to be determined upon my leaving for Austin) in which we two will show our forms talk about our history and then engage in a sparring match(rules to be determined by a moderator, another austin kf forum member would be appreciated) i extend this invitation to you REEMUL and the place designated for this event will be ZILKER PARK(down by the outdoor theatre where barton springs pool is).
I await your response on this forum as to whether or not you will "accept this challenge"
MY stats: 15 yrs martial arts training and study. 2nd degree black belt in the Shaolin-do chinese martial arts academy. 30 yrs old. 6ft2 180+ lbs. Internal practitioner for over 9 yrs.
respectfully signed: Jason Bratcher aka The Willow sword.

oh and BKH: Yo MAMA!! :p
MAny respects,,Willow sword.
P.s. i extend the invitation for those to come and witness this event and also engage in an exhibition of our forms,techniques in a friendly and respectful manner. :)

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I cannot fault WTS for this. It's an honest, clean invite.

JWT - who appears to be a stand up guy has extended his offer to ref.

Reemul - give JWT an email. It sounds like a fun meeting. Otherwise give it up so we can go back to more important topics like master bob klien.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[The Willow Sword]

LOL :D

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Oh come on, just meet, stand up for your styles, fight well then go and have a drink together...

[reemul]

The both of you need to get some serious reading comprehension skills. I'm starting to believe that you are both retarded. You both need to go
back and read my original posts. Better yet I'll
cut and paste them here for you to review. Don't strain yourself, get help if needed.

"As far as internet challenges are concerned, I don't view them as a formal challenge merely wishful intentions. A challenge is made in person and taken very seriously. Remember I didn't make the challenge"

This was from the poll thread:

"It's clear I know how to push Willow's buttons, however I don't control his actions and if he brings it, it will happen regardless of the outcome of this poll."

If you still don't understand my position on the matter I suggest you put your crash helmets on and get on that Short yellow bus and ask someone to translate.

[reemul]

www.eastwindtraininghall.com (http://www.eastwindtraininghall.com)

[The Willow Sword]

Reemul,,so now it comes down to who you are.
it would be a suprise to me if you actaully were Master Finley,,,so are you omar rhodes,,,mikael behrens..everett lee..micheal burke? your student body page is under construction so i cannot get names there,,well well now you have given us your school site. now lets be a little more couragious and see who you are,,,,,i leave it to you,,,,,oh and i emailed your Sifu Reemul with the plan and my intentions lets see what he has to say about all this. iF a man worthy of the title of "Master" then he would have disouraged you as my master has done of doing this. so lets see,,,Ball is in your court.

Many respects,,Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[Radhnoti]

Reemul, just say, "I intend to hide behind an internet alias and duck this challenge."
Why did I think you had accepted the challenge? Here's a few MORE of your quotes:
"Don't worry, if you bring the challenge I'll be there."-You will, eh? But only if he can FIND you to challenge you...and you won't give your name?
"As far as SD putting out good fighters my opinion was formed from me shamelessly beating them so easily and from a friend who also recieved no comp from so called SD instructors." -Did they have to come looking for you too? Or would you actually meet them somewhere?
"As far as Nov. is concerned, when I'm done with Willow you guys can send Joe in, or maybe even GM Sin. If this is what offends you, too Fu#$#n bad.
Also I'm curious what excuses you guys are gonna
come up with in Nov." - I think it's more interesting to see the excuses you're coming up with NOW.
"When we meet I will introduce my self as reemul, and when you get your ass beat, you can tell everyone you got your ass beat by reemul." - When we meet you say...or did you mean the SECOND time you meet? After he finds you and challenges you?
"As I said before, I'm not angry or mad, you are just an obsticle that is intent in being placed in my path some time in Nov. " - How's TWS going to be in your path if he has no clue who you are?
"I had absolutely no intention of bringing a sideman or weapons, just me myself and I. " - OK, now I'm REALLY confused...you just said you were gonna meet him, right?
I think you considered it an official challenge until it no longer suited you to see it as such.
Of course, it's possible that YOU need to take a WRITING course to better express yourself...it has to be one or the other. Either you misrepresented yourself in your own posts, or you misspoke.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[The Willow Sword]

Well put. lets see if his sifu answers my e-mil and if this reemul turns out to be sifu finley,,this will be an even better event than i thought,,i hope that it isnt thoughi hope that it is a student of his that is embaraasing the school he is at by all of this crap. it by no means embarrases SD.
Many respects,,Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[reemul]

I never said, I wouldn't agree to meet you so you could extend the challenge in person. You just assumed that I would'nt. I'm sorry to inform you, but you didn't email my instructor, you emailed the student instructors. However my instructor and all of the student instructor know that you wish to challenge me. My instructor is apathetic toward the matter, however he suggested that if you were intent on bringing the challenge, that I suggest you come to our school so you don't get hurt.

As for my postings, I know what I said, do you?
Ya know I'm starting think I should'nt accept the challenge. Don't know if I could live with myself
for beating up a retard.

[Radhnoti]

reemul said - "He suggested that if you were intent on bringing the challenge, that I suggest you come to our school so you don't get hurt."
reemul meant - "We should have it at my school, in case I need several of my friends to jump in and drag you off of me."

So, NOW you're saying you'll meet him somewhere to accept the challenge he hasn't made yet? Of course, you'd prefer to meet him at your school...for his protection. Slowly but surely you are making yourself understood, keep up the good work. Really.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[reemul]

Perhaps if you two would quit making assumptions and take the time to comprehend what is being said
you would save yourselves from looking like idiots.

I'll meet you where ever you want, personally I would prefer you not come to the school because I consider this to be a personal matter. I do not come to this forum as an official representative of my school, I come here as an individual and voice opinions based on my personal experience. My opinions are not to be mistaken as an official
possition held by my shool. They should be taken
as an individuals(my)opinions or views. So to TWS, keep that in mind before you go emailing the school and trying to draw people ,who have no interrest, into this matter.

To everyone else, some insight into TWS. He emailed our school and said he had to ask the moderator for the Web address for our school because I wasn't forthcoming with information. I do believe it was I who posted the site address.

email from TWS
>>"this Person has repeatedly insulted our school >>and system"

I have merely voiced my opinion with regard to your school. I just wasn't as PC about as most other people.

>>"i have brought it upon myself to challenge >>this student and or
>>instructor of yours to an exhibition of forms >>and a sparring match that one
>>or more neutral kfforum members in austin will >>moderate.

You mean you intend to challenge me when you get here. :p

Just curious, why do you wish to know my name so bad? Does it even matter? Cuz let me tell you, your name means absolutely jack to me and I don't see why mine would mean anything to you.

[Radhnoti]

It would not be necessary to assume anything if you were more forthright. You say you'll fight if challenged, TWS challenges. You mouth off about what you'll do, TWS proceeds to set things up. You say you've not been formally challenged, TWS give a formal, if online, challenge. You say a challenge can only be made in person, TWS attempts to find a person that's not given his true name. TWS (and I) point out the inconsistencies in what you say, and you say we just don't understand.
While it's true that an idiot probably never KNOWS he's an idiot, I'd venture to say that you look more like someone dodging a challenge then I look like an idiot. I believe you don't want to give your actual name either: 1. Because you don't intend to follow through on this or
2. Because you intend to have someone else fight FOR you. Or, the one I could respect,
3. You don't want to give a real name to avoid internet psychos coming for your family and/or revenge. This final problem could easily be overcome, just give your name to JWT and let him serve as the go-between he's volunteered to be.
Why not quit being so evasive and just set this thing up reemul? Just come ready to fight to whereever you and TWS agree, you'll get there with a friend. TWS will have one as well. JWT acts as an impartial judge and awards cookies to whomever he thinks fought best. In a perfect world, you two develop respect for each other as individuals and become friends. (Hey, if I'm gonna dream, why not dream big?)

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[The Willow Sword]

You REEMUL are gettin more and more angry about this whereas i who was angry at the beginning am now calm and VERY confident. RAd Has got you figured out man even though he is pokin fun at ya a little. this will be so fun in november REEMUL.
I really do not think that you have ever been challenged before,in this manner anyway, where your spouting off has got you in a situation where NOW this forum KNows what school you study at and my being persistant about this has got your testicles and adrenaline in a binge. FYI i did not see your post until AFTER i got the link. So why now are you revealing your school name? I know that your school gets sh!t from a lot of people concerning the rareity of what you study and the questionability of the system as well. Believe me REEMUL we are going to see if you are learning the concepts of what your master is teaching you,,ive had 15 yrs in this relm Boy and you BETTER BELIEVE THAT I am No KId with a false sense of security. I KNOW MY STUFF,,SO GET READY. YOU "Kid" are a PUNK and i have dealt with guys like you before,,at the club i used to bounce at in AUstin as well as the street,YOU think you know something AND YOU THINK YOU KNOW MY SYSTEM AND SCHOOL,,But YOU dont know ANYTHING other than to hide behind a stupid screen name and spout off. You insult your school and master by downing other systems of martial arts and spouting off your SUPERFICIAL KNOWLEGDE OF WHAT YOU THINK TO BE THE TRUTH IN WHAT YOU PRACTICE.
REALITY is what YOU need and that is what I am going to give you come november.
MAny respects,,Willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Without seeing the rare Northern Tiger system Reemul practices, or having any knowledge of it, experience shows me that many 'rare' styles being taught by non-Chinese tend to be recently made up by those very teachers.

So - SD is dissed for being 'made-up'. Northern tiger might be too.

Now - no offense to the NT guys. You could be legit. I've trained with plenty of schools that did 'rare' styles. The one thing I discovered was that if they were legit, you'd copme across sister arts or other practitioners - especially back in the region it originated from.

I personally don't mind recently 'made-up' styles as long as they are honest about what they are. And without reviewing NT, I am NOT saying it is one of these styles. Just that on the surface, it could be.

Now, wouldn't that be a hoot?

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[Radhnoti]

Sheesh reemul, you're bringing the reputation of your school down now. Made up. Where's the sister art? Questions about the honesty of your teacher? How far into the past of your school can we delve before finding contradictions? Bitter pills for any student to swallow, no?
Is this a karmic wheel I feel spinning or what!?!
;)
Yeah, yeah, Monkeyslap Too...I know you never said those things, but I'm sure what you said is how things like that start. And if TWS crushes reemul in November it'll be more than insinuated, the SD haters will state it as a fact. After all, how could SD beat a "legit" CMA? In some ways it gets funnier...in others more sickening.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[MonkeySlap Too]

If the truth about your origins was the sole source of victory in combat, we would see more CMA guys in MMA events.

Just a thoyght from a CMA guy.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[MonkeySlap Too]

thoyght = thought

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[reemul]

To Monkey Slap Too, If that is what you got out of the limited information on the Website, so be it. What I find funny is that most weserners think that the first thing that Shaolin masters did when they came to this country was open up kungfu schools. Our history is pretty long and detailed. I do know this, we are one of the few schools recognized by the Guardians of the Temple Society out of Hawaii formed in the early 70's who's mission was to recognize and keep track of Shaolin and other kungfu masters for the purpose of keeping a charter of real KF systems. As for sister sytems, don't know much about that. However If any Bak mei guys are out there, and you are familiar with the late Master Lo, I would like to discuss a connection.

As for TWS it's apparent your comprehension skills
are not getting better so I will layout what I will accept from you as a challenge.

Seeing as you now know where our school is located, I will accept nothing less than you coming by and extending the challenge in person.
I would have met you where ever you wanted, but you keep "assuming" otherwise. So you now know where I'm at, so come get some. :cool:

[This message was edited by reemul on 08-15-01 at 06:51 PM.]

[reemul]

Ya know you and Willow talk way too much smack. I just hope Willow's defeat doesn't crush your spirit. Oh and don't worry I'll remove you nose from Willow's a$$ in the process. ;)

[MonkeySlap Too]

'Gaurdians of the temple' --sounds like fun.

If there is a Bak Mei connection to your art, you are probably doing a Fukien rather than a Northern style.

But again, I am just pondering. I am a very interested in all types of CMA and thier histories.

I know many people in the Hakka styles world - what is Master Lo's full name?

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[fiercest tiger]

i learnt it a t shaolin do! hahahahahaha


just starting trouble here sorry guys couldnt help myself!

fight fight fight fight! :eek:

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Radhnoti]

Thanks reemul, it's nice to see that you care so much for me and my plight. I'm terribly sorry that MonkeySlap Too wasn't impressed with that TOO COOL name you had, Guardians of the Temple Society. That was a cool enough name that I, personally, feel he should have been greatly more impressed. Maybe they should have another cool name in addition to the other...like...Ultimate Keepers of the Sacred Flame of Shaolin Wisdom. Then they'd be TWICE as impressive. Hope your style really is as rock solid as you seem to think, MonkeySlap Too can be tenacious...as TWS and I can attest.
What a difference your tone has taken...it's gone from, "As far as Nov. is concerned, when I'm done with Willow you guys can send Joe in, or maybe even GM Sin. If this is what offends you, too Fu#$#n bad.
Also I'm curious what excuses you guys are gonna
come up with in Nov."
To, "Seeing as you now know where our school is located, I will accept nothing less than you coming by and extending the challenge in person."
Meaning, you will fight there when the challenge is made, right? With all your friends and teacher to oversee/jump in? Help me out here slick, I'd hate to ASSUME you were copping out like this. I can't believe you put a "cool face" after that statement...or is that to imply you're just being cool, instead of scared? Just curious.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[Fish of Fury]

jaesus, somebody go there now and get it over with will ya?
the suspense is killing me!

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

[The Willow Sword]

I do not know where your school is located,,when i first was looking for a school to replace my previous instruction in kentucky i looked at the EAst wind training hall in the phone book,,but the address was ome obscure location in south austin at a HOUSE. but that was back in 1994,,i dony know if you all now have a space. But to read your statement about me coming to your school to issue the challenge,,,WHAT A FREAKIN COP OUT BOY! I hAVE ALREADY ISSUED THE CHALLENGE HERE. And i have designated the place which is neutral ground for all. YOU KID are A Coward and a Pu$ and not worth your Masters' Time. ILL tell you this,,the only thing that has not been designated is the day and time(which will be a weekend for sure) that will be determined when i know exactly when i am going to be in Austin. YOU dont show up to this Reemul and YOU are gonna lose face and respect here on this forum and in the eyes of ALOT of Other MArtial artists on this Board. SO go hide in your little dog house doggy and whimper and moan and bark behind the confines of your Fence.....
Hey MAn you started this whole thing with "Shaolin-DO Sucks!" and i am going to finish this and PROVE To you that YOU DO NOT MAKE COMMENTS LIKE THAT LEST YOU HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY IT TO SOMEONES FACE AND BE ABLE TO BACK IT UP.
This gettin Too intense for you Sweetheart? ILL BET IT IS. ILL leave you wth that and give this thread a resy until the time i make my journey to Austin.
ATTN. KFM FORUM MEMBERS IN AUSTIN TEXAS:
MAny Respects To You,,I ask that this event be Moderated by someone willing to ensure that Neither of us gets too seriously hurt. My intentions are not to kill or mame this guy but they are to make a point as to the quality and content of my school and system. JWT has already offered to be there and i thank him for that. Any others would greatly be appreciated. Remember this aint no Rolls/Ralek BS..This be the real thing..lets make it worth while and a good event and i promise regardless of the outcome,,,,Dinner at Chuy's and i will but the moderators dinner and a beer( if you are so inclined).
Thats all for now guys ill be posting elsewhere and gettin back to my original purpose here.
Many Respects,,,Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[reemul]

To Willow, I have stated from the begining that I will not accept a challenge issued over the internet. To be honest I'm not in the habbit of accepting challenges at all. However seeing as you seemed so wounded by my opinion I conceded that if you brought the challenge I would accept.
To find out where we are located is not a mystery. You've been to the site. The location is pretty straight forward. If you don't like the conditions I have made, tough. You should have kept your mouth shut when I was willing meet you at whatever location you chose. I think its funny how you act like the wounded pup having done no wrong.

To MonkeySlap Too, I did not mean to imply that Bak mei is a sister style. We are not connected by material. If you have a question regarding the system just come out and ask, don't make assumptions based on limited information. At the same time I'm not gonna post info or history on this forum for the sake of persuading members of the forum that we are what we say we are. I don't care if you do or don't.

What I find funny, is when someone says there system is rare or not widely known, most people take the attitude "Well I haven't herd of it" and thats fine, We are sorry the masters did not check in with you when they came over, our bad ;)

[reemul]

The comment I made that sent you over the edge was: given my past experience with the Shaolin do system, that I thought it was crap. I believe at that point you proclaimed you intentions.

I'm curious, was it the fact that I said I thought SD was crap? or the fact that I have had past experience with SD and that I thought it was crap?

Not that it matters, I was just wonderring because other members have said pretty much the same thing, they just were maybe a little more PC about.

[Radhnoti]

For someone so concerned with our reading comprehension, you sure don't make things easy with your senseless posts. Here's your contradictory statements...IN THE SAME POST.
"I have stated from the begining that I will not accept a challenge issued over the internet." -Meaning, basically, come find me. Then you wrote, "You should have kept your mouth shut when I was willing meet you at whatever location you chose. "
SO, in one sentence you say you never intended to meet him and in the next you're saying you WERE going to but have decided it's a bad idea. Your blathering attempts to duck this challenge without withdrawing any of the insulting comments YOU chose to make are sickening. TWS asked you to put up or shut up, you've decided to hide and do neither. Surrounded and protected by your teacher and fellow students, you plan to keep mouthing off. So be it.

MonkeySlap Too, am I dreaming...or did he tell you not to assume things about his style, just to ask. Followed by the declaration that he's not going to go into the history or really ANY info? Maybe he meant you two could correspond via e-mail? A man (or whatever) of contradictions is reemul, eh?

Anyone willing to read the history of your posting can see why TWS challenged you. Anyone who wants to can look back over your initial ****y response, laughingly assuring him you were old enough and far exceeded his skill. Anyone who wants can read of your growing fear as the necessary preparations for the challenge went forth. Anyone can see how you've twisted your own words around trying to find a way out. And ANYONE willing to go through those posts can make their own determination about your character and worth.
I assume most will make the same determination I have. You WILL NOT insult my style again on this forum without my pointing out your cowardice.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[MonkeySlap Too]

Fair enough. Like I hinted at, I was just goofing. I appreciate your lack of concern over other people's opinions. This is an attitude cetrtainly shared by the SD group. With the notable exception in that we have seen SD, I have not seen your school, which of course, makes it impossible for me to make a judgement call. Please take my previous posts in the manner they were intended. Just supposition.

On the other hand, I am revising an earlier post. Technology changes things. I see nothing wrong with accepting an internet challenge - especially if there is a respectable go-between like JWT.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[reemul]

To Monkey Slap Too,

Don't worry about man, I don't get worked up over these message boards, a lot of things get taken out of context and musunderstood. Hell I look at our Website and it doesn't even come close painting the picture of what we do. With regard to instructors that make up systems, I do know what your talking about, I've seen that a few times myself.

To Radhnoti: I quite reading your posts, I grew tired of your incoherent babbling, so save yourself the time and effort. When I see your name on a post I just skip to the next one.

[BeiKongHui]

How old are you guys anyway?

I just met a guy who got his 2nd degree BB at age 13 :confused: and his 3rd at 15 from Sin The. I also know another 15 year old that has a 2nd under one of Sin's students. My questions are 1)Neither one of these kids possesses any skill at all, they just memorized the katas and paid their fees. Do you not see a problem with this? I study Kung Fu & we don't use belts but I was under the impression that in most karate styles that awarded belts it took about 10 years to achieve that first black...what's the deal?
2)These are not isolated incidents don't you feel that by selling belts like this it minimizes the importance and meaning of said belts?

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

[Radhnoti]

BKH, I'm 28. I've never met a blackbelt in SD younger than 20...I don't doubt that they exist, but I've not met one. I've heard of some SD instructors giving black belts with a white band to young students that have learned the forms. The understanding is that they'll re-test for "full black" when they get older. I believe that this is the plan my instructor intends to follow...if the situation ever arises. You HAVE to wait 3 months between lower belt test. And I know MY instructor has said that WE have to wait 6 months between brown belt test, but that might be just his way of making sure we know our brown belt material better. SO, assuming no failures (we have 4 students in our class now who've failed under other instructors) a person can have a black belt in...2 1/2 to 3 years depending on when GM Sin or another master is available to judge. (BTW, noticed the assumption that we study karate...we've done that though, so I'm passing it over to get to your actual questions.)
I think that earning a BB in SD is something to take pride in, but it certainly doesn't NECESSITATE the ever elusive term "mastery". I want a black belt and I give respect as is proper to SD black belts. But, having said this, I know I can outfight some blackbelts...as I'm sure some whitebelts can outfight me. The things that SD teaches can only improve upon the basic blueprint mother nature gave each of us. You say SD is "selling" belts, I say it's offering it's students the knowledge to improve themselves. Whether or not they choose to "cash in" upon what they've been given is their choice. My instructor and GM Sin CONSTANTLY say that when you earn your black belt you're JUST BEGINNING to really study Shaolin-Do.
By the way, BKH I love the quote. Khalil Gibran? I've never heard of him, but I'm gonna see what I can dig up about him.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[BeiKongHui]

No Rad I wasn't assuming it's Karate. I don't want to insult any Karateka's. I'm sorry but I am more familiar with your art and GM Sin than you are and I just don't buy all the BS that SD students spout. Don't take it personally because I don't have a problem with you, you seem ok unlike that TWS fellow who seems to have some major insecurities. However, if you are interested I can tell you about some places in Kentucky to get good quality instruction. You seem serious about martial arts so why not visit one of the more reputable schools and see how you compare to the students who have a similar level of experience. I'm not talking about any kind of challenge or any macho BS like that just go in and watch and ask questions. What do you have to lose?

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

[shaolin_knight]

Radhnoti, I think he was just talking about belt systems, which are generally used by Karate and Karate derived systems, but not saying you are either. You already explained why you guys use belts.

My grandma likes Kalil Gibran. She has a bunch of his books. He's interesting. Check him out Radhnoti.

[Radhnoti]

BKH, I studied another style (Japanese though) under the fellow generally acknowledged as "the best" in SE KY, and I prefer SD. But, hey, my instructor encourages us to check out other schools and exchange information...anything to learn. He and I have been to a local school's (BJJ/Ninjitsu school) seminars, it was fun. So, sure, send me the names of some schools you'd suggest (via e-mail if you wish). If I'm in the area sometime I'll swing by, or maybe I'll talk my instructor into swinging by with me and making a day of it. He keeps a pretty open mind.

"That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

[cho]

" WE have to wait 6 months between brown belt test, but that might be just his way of making sure we know our brown belt material better."

maybe your instructor teaches it as a martial art, whereas Thé wants to make money.o

[qy]

Willow have you shared these classy threads with your teacher or Sin The? (knowing them I don't think they would approve)

I wonder if Illusionfist is still pleased to have met with you?
:confused:

[joedoe]

Does Guardian of the Temple have a website? I am just curious to see what styles it has listed. Well, actually, I just want to see if my style is listed :).

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

[reemul]

No website as far as I know.

[joedoe]

Thanks. Oh well, I guess I'll have to go there and see for myself :)

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
What we do in life echoes in Eternity

[The Willow Sword]

My Teacher knows that i post here, as do other SD members. As far as Gm The'? i do not know. i would think not but if they read the posts they would see that i Defend SD and stand up for the school where noone else high up in the organization will. silence they say can be golden, however i beg to differ when sooo much crap is thrown our way. for MYSELF i feel that we need to stand up against folks such as yourself and promote ourselves as a Shaolin school as well as a good Martial arts school. Radhnoti seems to be getting into the KFMForum fix here..IT IS ADDICTIVE I KNOW. as i have stated before that i am not an isolationist and that i am not naive to other systems of shaolin or kungfu. Whereas i have my opinions about the "Shaolin"practiced in the temple in china today i still maintain a certain level of respect for what happens there and in this country....you know it is amazing that we as a School show respect to everyone and get little in return..i do not feel that the reason why we are so respectful of others is becuase we have this hidden adgenda,,i believe it is because we have a fondness for the martial arts and we adhere to the prinviples of good conduct as per stated in the shaolin code of ethics. i cannot say the same thing for most of you(including you MonkeyslapToo). So let em read on,,in fact i hope that ONE of the higher ups in the SD organization does look at whats been going on. For i would like to know that id what i am doing is Approved of or not. if it isnt then i would have to say that i think that it is time that we stop being so private and isolationist and go out there and start going to other tournaments and competeing and sparring and establishing respect(since that is what seems to establish respect here) And for Gm The' to write or even take up offers to be interviwed about his history and lineage. i believe it to be true and stand behind what he says,,,yes i do have my questions about things,,i will leave it up to him to decide for all of us whether or not it is of anyones buisiness....but i have stated before that the history does not concern me really,,i have read and heard enough history.
any way QY there is my response. oh and dont respond to this with a bunch of pre- programmed "you cant see the truth and all that other clap jap" ive heard it all before :rolleyes:

many Respects, willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
Luke?! Luke?! dont give into hate. That leads to the dark side.
Obi Wan Kenobi,,star wars, empire strikes back.

[MonkeySlap Too]

ooh. I guess I'm a bad boy then.

It's a shame that reasoned questions and requests for support or evidence for outrageous statements is considered bad behavior.

Most of us here can produce classmates from our teachers, historical info, things that can be supported outside of our own group.

Shaolin-do has a lot of questionable ethics attached to it's history, it's claims and how the art 'grows' as well as what it claims to teach. (Has anyone EVER compared thier 'chen' style with the Chen family?)

I actually have first hand experience, and I don't share those stories because they would be impolite. I don't want to make the SD organization look bad - they can do that on thier own.

Oh- after much consideration, I declined a job offer in Kentucky. Now THAT would have been fun. In the belly of the SD beast.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[suff0beast]

Hey all,

ok been reading this awhile, and have found alot of weird shtuff in here.

first of all in the case of SD students that have no skill... They don't train hard enough. How many of those students do you think ACTUALLY go home and train more? How many more do you think get up early in the morning and train? How many do you think just train in Class? There is your skill level.

2. TWS in your defense. 15yrs MA. And when/where do you train? Is it outside of your school, is it when you wake up and do your yijinjing?

2. Reemul in your defense.. How long have you studied, how long DO you study?

You see style has no place in this. I have seen SD students that suck beyond compare, I ask them when they learn, they say only in class maybe 2x a week!!! I see an ex g/f who studies every morning, and she is on hell of a fighter.

TWS - Your crusade is courageous, it is honorable to defend your style and your knowledge. Who are we to tell you that YOU suck, that SD produces bad fighters? Yes some may have fought SD students, and tore em up, but does that mean that ALL SD are bad fighters?

Bottom Line - Either you can fight or you can't. Not all Boxers are good fighters!

reemul - You should accept the challenge. Screw old principles about in person Challenges. TWS has extended a challenge that even I couldn't refuse! I think alot of people here are pretty much in the same boat, saying they would accept if the challenge were to them. And if the whole "my instructor extends this challenge.." response to an email then, hell man you just been volunteered by your own instructor. (I remember reading that somewhere about the email TWS sent to Reemuls master)

Next bottom line... Just get the F*** in there and throwdown, share a beer later and quit talking about "when I whoop his A**..", or "As soon as you get beat down..." that is no good.

BTW - It isn't always the style (regardless of if it claims Shaolin) it is the fighter... And how they customize their training to work for them. Praying mantis, Hung ga, Shaolin Tiger will never use ALL of their applications, just the ones they have perfected over and over to their body mechanincs!!!

[qy]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> any way QY there is my response. oh and dont respond to this with a bunch of pre- programmed "you cant see the truth and all that other clap jap" ive heard it all before [/quote]

Willow thanks for your response. I think you DO see the "truth". I don't see how you can't if your prior training was worth anything. I DO think that you pass on info that you know is false.
I think you might be a bright guy and you think SD is going to offer you a teaching position or School opportunity soon. I think SD peeps look for peeps like you to make the whole thing look good. They latch on to someone with talent or prior training, ABSORB what that person has to offer, even show them off. They will put that person on display every time a perspective student comes around. They will promote that person even faster than usual. They will "invite" that person to learn forms that are "above" their level. Don't get me wrong, they DO want and need you to keep the whole thing going. They are gonna treat you right.

The question is do you want to represent these people you whole life. How many people do you want to tell these stories to? How many people do you want to see learn tai chi in a few hours? How many worthless blackbelts to you want to promote? How long do you want to keep this up?

As for Sin The offering interviews.....The only ones that I am aware of are written by his long time friend and student. These infomercials are printed as advertisments. (I did not see the latest in IKF)

Anyway I hate long posts, but you wrote such a nice note.........

[reemul]

you are a bit late and all these issues have been resolved. Some time in Nov. it will happen.

[The Willow Sword]

my regimen.
in the morning a i wake up and already there is a pot of green tea being brewed by my brewmaster coffee machine. its got a timer set and i always have a fresh pot ready to go. i drink that,, stretch maybe take a warm bath and stretch more. i do the qigong sets taught to me over the years. this regiman in the morning is not always followed. as i have other life things that i do. when i was teaching at the SD school in Austin i was training 6 days a week and teaching the classes as well. about 4to 5 hours a day. sometimes i would be too tired to attend our rigorous basic skills training. but being that my peers were there and that i would be with them ,sweating with them. i would manage to pick myself up and go. this regiman was not always followed. i have had almost a year break from the rigorous training regimen that i dedicated myself to.(sometimes you can wear yourself out with too much excersise) i have been slowly getting back into the groove again. this altitude that i am at(7-8000 ft) PLUS the mountains have increased my endurance and level of skill internally. i conserve alot now but is still have a good workout in the park(about 2-3 hours of training)this is done now 2 times a week. i need it to be more but i have a life of things to do that keep the roof over my head. i teach on saturday mornings a taichi and qigong class and sundays i work out and teach whoever shows up in the park...
it will be interesting to see how i fair when i go back to sea level and train and fight in thicker air. the classes at SD in Austin are 6days a week. there is ALWAYS something going on over there. hey man that is what we do.
Monkeyslaptoo: maybe you are forgetting that these reasonable questions that you ask some of us are questions THAT WE DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS TO,,not because we are inept but because either one we truly do not know and do not care OR we do not know because we are not in the school to be an authority on history and lineages and everything else that YOU seem to be more preoccupied with. As far as The Chen villiage is concerned and chen taichi when the school recently went to china ,Chen villiage was one of the stops. as i have heard it from a known instructor and friend who went there we showed the CHen taichi that we learned in the SD organization and then they showed us the Chen form. of course thiers was more crisp than ours due to their dedicated timne in training solely in it. But it was recognized that what we were doing IS CHEN TAICHI and we were well recieved and hnored for our dedication to what we were doing. as a matter of fact when the school was at shaolin there was a demo that took place at one of the wushu schools near the temple. when we demonstrated some of our forms. the instructor of the school then demonstarted what he called a "TRADITIONAL" Form and it was almost excactly like ours in style and manner. the instructor was pleased that we were continuing what he called the "OLD TRADITIONAL FORMS" that we were freely practicing. now if this was a smokescreen from them then i dont know what to make of it,,but it seems hardly the case since we were in thier country and they could have ousted us in a sec if they thought that what we were doing was crap and an insult to thier ways and methods. These people may be humble and nice but as all of you know that the asian mindset and mindset of the people are fiercly PROUD of what they do andit would not matter if we were asians or french or any other nationality. so do not reply with this(and i have read it before) that "well they wouldnt tell you that you were full of ****,,for this would hurt tourism and so on and so forth". anyone who knows,,KNOWS that is BS. so there it is...ANd apparently from RAd's picture the Chen Villiage allowed the students to erect a tablet honoring GM sin. doesnt matter who paid for it, in my opinion. it is funny when i read that ANYONE CAN ERECT a tablet at the shaolin temple or chen villiage if they have enough money.. so with that being the case can the "brotherhood of the aryan nation"erect a tablet honoring hitler at the temple? or possibly the "pedafiles anonymous" group erect a tablet honoring Fatty Arbuckle at the temple? hmm i wonder.

even if one does have the money they STILL HAVE to go through proper channels and get permission granted to set these things up. anyway i am off the point a bit but wanted to interject that.

Many Respects,WIllow SWord

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
Luke?! Luke?! dont give into hate. That leads to the dark side.
Obi Wan Kenobi,,star wars, empire strikes back.

[reemul]

I don't train, what I do is a lifestyle. Training signifies a means to an end. I just do for the sake of doing. My days consist of large numbers and long periods of endused stress and meditation.

[shaolinboyb3c]

I think the point was a good one. If the very homeland of the art is impressed then maybe it can't be that fake. Sd students may not practice like the monks do. Hell, I know some at my class that only practice twice a week. I for one practice daily. I only get in about an hour a day, but even with that I far exceed those that rarely practice, no matter the art. The practioners are not the art. Look at a high ranked martial artist regardless of style. He/she has worked for where he/she is and deserves respect. If you go into a low level class then of course you shall witness nothing spectacular.