View Full Version : Future of tcm and alternative therapies.
02-18-2003, 09:50 AM
Iīve been meditating a lot on medicine :) and now that there are some thoughts bugging me,I think I might as well release them here.
What do you think is the future of tcm?
Now if we assume that tcm (etc. related) methods having gained some interest in western countries,not to forget understandable concern from practitioners of conventional medicine,will be placed under some serious light of research..-what would become out of it?
1. Now I believe alternative therapies and folk medicine will maintain itīs supporters even if there would be no further verification for itīs functionality from bigger circles.
2 . If the art will be studied on and noticed to hold heavy amounts of water from a scientifical viewpoint,what would this cause?
After scientifically valid evidence,would the need to explain it with ancient explanations be eliminated?
Now I might believe that some would stand against that,but in my humble opinion it could be very healthy for it.
BTW,this is not a rant but pure food for thought to be chewed well.
Please feel free to join.
02-18-2003, 07:32 PM
well it's one of alternative medicines in west(hell even in india too because not much ayurvedic doc left)
it's a complete medical science in india, mostly known for sushrutra or charaka(the main ayurvedic doctors lived 1000 or some yrs back) they hav written books on ayurvedic medicne which even deals with surgory(sp), it's as advance as u can get in allopathy(sp)
in india u can find cure for some chronic diseases which u WON"T find in main stream medical
just for example i m giving u link for asthma cure(which cannot be cured in allopathy at least i havn't heard of it but here in india it's been done from yrs back)
the link is giving only the complete story about the doc n it's thearpy...
02-18-2003, 07:43 PM
I think that alternate and tradiional medicine will always be around.
From what I can gather it appears that the "old world"(Europe & Asia) is more open towards this type of treatment.
02-19-2003, 03:29 AM
Laughing Cow is correct, TCM for exmaple will never die because if it were all merely the work of charalatans or a feverish mind of an old archaic idea long gone then it would of died off centuries ago. The fact remains that genuine systems of medicine like TCM, Ayurvedic, Reiki etc will always remain regardless of what modern science says in its favour or against it.
Modern western medicine/science is NOT the bench mark for all others!!.
02-19-2003, 05:18 AM
Thank you everyone.
BTW,what do you think about my question?
An example could be drawn to the link TKDwarrior posted.
Talking about fish medicine,if we consider fish medicine effective treatment for asthma,we could benefit from studying itīs chemical build-up in detail (careful research)
Once this kind of complete study is done and carefully tested and observed,we can point out directions outside of anecdotal information.Have had asthma myself,which disappeared (sometimes it can be psychosomatic though)
I encourage healthy skeptism,it is the peopleīs lives that are on stake so it certainly wonīt hurt.
If seen by those in charge to be appropriate,more research could be done on alternative medicine in case,objective approach is good.
And when it comes to practitioners of alternative medicine-
It makes me shake my head to hear of elitistic attitude from this side.This is NOT a generalisation for honorable practitioners but to tell "how to" from such position is like a kitten shouting at a tigerīs face.
03-08-2003, 07:46 PM
Eventually replaced by nanomachines and gene therapy. Then ticklepants.
03-09-2003, 04:52 AM
03-09-2003, 11:04 AM
Sidenote:Iīve had my take on legitimacy of medicine- already,please keep it clean and keep up discussing if you wish.
03-18-2003, 11:45 PM
I'm guessing you're coming from the background of western medicine by reading your posts.
A few weeks ago I read an article in the December 2002 issue of TIME magazine. They did many articles on herbs and chinese medicine. I felt it was a pretty neutral point of view but they stated that MD's are starting to see that things like accupunture are very effective.
Insurance programs are also starting to accept accupunture as well.
In my opinion, TCM is doing very well in the States with over 10,000 practitioners in CA and it is only spreading more everyday.
03-19-2003, 05:20 PM
Firstly, the methodology of TCM, with it's empasis on Qi and merediant points and so on will not be accepted unless someone come up with method to scientifically detect Qi.
However, West could accept TCM without embracing the metaphysics of TCM, that is it's cure. For example, in Japan, you can obtain prescription for TCM medicine from your G.P.
In the West, Ministry of Health require you to identify the exact chemical compound of medicine for approval in medical use. TCM medicine on the other hand are made from combination of natural herb and other stuff. So it canno get approval from Minstry of Health (Food and Drug Admin if you are from U.S.). Another problem is that because this cure is around for thousands of years, no one can patent this, so no drug company are willing to pay for the clinical trial which could cost $million.
In Orient, Government paid for conducting clinical test for well established TCM method and majority has been approved. Also, this has eliminated any chance of bogus TCM from ruining reputation of TCM.
IMO, the future of TCM is main stream acceptance of cure if not its methodology.
03-20-2003, 12:33 PM
Meridian and qi theory are ALREADY accepted by Western medical science.
When I was in medical school, there were internships and residencies being offered in those disciplines. It's now possible to become board certified as a Western physician of traditional Chinese medicine.
Similarly, naturopathic training now utilizes the same Western medical foundation that standard MDs use. I have a kung fu student who took a test on autoimmune diseases at his naturopathic school today. His textbook? Robbins - the exact same one I used as a 2nd year medical student in Western medical school.
Veterinary medicine, which is a launchpad for much of what is done in the Western medical world, has fully embraced meridian and qi therapy. Here in Phoenix, I hear all the time about horses that didn't do well with Western methods but suddenly reverse their fortunes after meridian therapy and reiki and such.
For the record, top pharmaceutical companies around the world regularly research nonWestern modes of treatment. They deeply respect whatever method that WORKS, regardless of origin.
Eventually we're not really going to have a true distinction between "Eastern" and "Western". Having been on both sides of the fence has shown me that the days of "elitist attitude" from either side are soon to be no more.
It's just going to be "medicine".
03-21-2003, 05:49 AM
With all respect, I find it hard to believe that Qi theory is accepted by Western Science. My guess is that they have discovered that meredian point has concentration of nerve. But that does not means that qi theory, "defined by TCM", has been accepted.
As far as I know, TCM interpret qi as a energy. In western science, energy has to be such thing as electricity or gravity which scientifically verifiable and measureable entity. So far, I'm not aware of any scientific article which claim to have managed to do just that to qi.
That was the reason making distinction between cure and explanation in my first comment.
03-26-2003, 04:47 AM
Meridian and qi theory are ALREADY accepted by Western medical science. ""
Thanks for all the replies.
04-01-2003, 11:48 AM
No, YOU be careful.
Accupuncture has already been accepted. That's meridian theory right there.
You don't understand what qi is really all about, former castleva. It's not merely a measurable energy or some way of doing Jedi levitation tricks.
The REAL concept of qi is far more expansive than the extremely limited view you have of it. Western doctors have already begun to catch onto its concept via the use of macrobiotics and selective nutrition (vitamin) therapy.
You need more education in both Western AND Eastern medical science, former castleva. Go to school.
04-01-2003, 02:54 PM
Alchemy had theory based on idea that all matter is comprised of Wind, Fire, Water and Earth. Thought its theory were proven to be completely false after the founding of modern chemistry, they did manage to produce number of valid chemical reaction in lab condition. Only problem was that the explanation which it has provided was false but not its experiment. Therefore, the fact that alchemist can reproduce certain chemical reaction is no evidence of validity of its theory.
04-01-2003, 03:06 PM
At first,once mud starts flying it may be over.I already thought about deleting this thread but will not so far because there has been some reasonable discussion.
"No, YOU be careful."
Iīm trying to.
With all the respect possible,I have some difficulty taking all this seriously.
"You don't understand what qi is really all about, former castleva. It's not merely a measurable energy or some way of doing Jedi levitation tricks."
You may be right,maybe I do not...
Or maybe I do,depends.
(Notice the dead horse) Qiisy.
"You need more education in both Western AND Eastern medical science, former castleva. Go to school."
Have seriously considered that,when it comes to western/universal med. but weīll see.
You can never have too much education.
"Meridian and qi theory are ALREADY accepted by Western medical science."
"Accupuncture has already been accepted. That's meridian theory right there." -And anatomical basis for nervous system has been tracked down in tcm?
Here we go.
When it comes to being acupuncture being accepted,yes,they have gained somewhat legal recognition for use in various countries.
It is another issue when it comes to something completely different,in this case pseudoscience to be accepted in science,medical that is (I dislike the term "western science" since it is BS.Science is an universal method that sure crosses the borders of region)
So tcm (as various other therapies) have been brought to western society just like weīre working to get conventional treatment to Africa as an example.This does not mean they suddenly become part of the method itself,that is way too odd (also,one can go find some people who would support this idea or something but that is far too far from universal agreement.Such a brave statement should be backed up with brave,objective evidence.Such a thing would be somewhat equal in itīs category to evolution theory accepting creationist theory for some boost and if things were like this,the whole world would go "Oooooh".Since this is against laws of scientifical medicine,I would know of this right?)
Courses and training in alt./compl. therapies are also being offered for justified physicians in America at least (There is no such trend in my country as an example) since some ppl are interested in this kind of treatment.
Still,conventional medicine remains...well conventional.
I notice some interest for practitioners of alt. med. to combine their methods into conventional medicine.If I think about my own country,I can notice that there is no need to "add" anything to treatment itself (provided there will be) but what causes issues is the shortage of resources and such difficulties.
04-08-2003, 11:08 AM
You have taken this discussion from uneducated to STUPID, former castleva.
As an educated Western medical person, I'm OUT.
04-08-2003, 12:27 PM
You did not back up your strong claims with real evidence but instead of that do rely on emotional foul language.
Best of luck.
04-13-2003, 09:15 AM
I have been thinking about studying TCM for almost a year now. I looked at a few schools and their programs (4 years Acupunture) and thought about going to schools in China. Thinking about something that I know very little about is very limited. I suddenly got the bright idea (sarcasm) this morning to take a few classes.
Seeing that there are many programs out there, I found one for TUINA Certificate which takes 2 semesters and $1,200. I may just do that so I can get some idea of what the heck I have been thinking about for so long.
I'm suggesting that you do the same, take a few classes instead of posting, reading, "researching" because - like you and I- we both know nothing about chinese medicine and have been meditating on it for a long time.
I remember in an earlier post you said that western med has been around longer than 200 years? Websites say it has been around for some 150 years. How long has w. medicine been around?
04-13-2003, 09:40 AM
Actually they have gone full circle. Science has made gold using alchemy. Could people have done this in the past? Doughtfull but slightly possible one or two people may have.
04-13-2003, 10:07 AM
"I remember in an earlier post you said that western med has been around longer than 200 years? Websites say it has been around for some 150 years. How long has w. medicine been around?"
I do not remember what I have stated,if I really have but I think it is certainly older than 200 years.
It is hard to point out when it has actually started,actually we could trace it back to Greek medicine,as "premodern form" for which there is no use for these days.
"I'm suggesting that you do the same, take a few classes instead of posting, reading, "researching" because - like you and I- we both know nothing about chinese medicine and have been meditating on it for a long time. "
I am not interested in it too much these days.
My interest is mostly geared towards other sciences,some of which are related,scientifical medicine belonging to slightly smaller interests.
I do not believe my life will be long enough to spend time with such.
However,if you do have the acces and interest,then I shall wish you the best of luck.
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