Praying mantis can't hold a candle to wing chun

[Stacey]

A wing chun sifu just told me that he has yet to meet a praying mantis sifu that he can't beat up.

Have any of you ever fought with wing chun? How did praying mantis stack up?

[MightyB]

I've never met a Wing Chun Sifu who didn't want to give up Wing Chun in order to study Praying Mantis.

[Skarbromantis]

I've never met a Wing Chun Sifu!

[carly]

I mean it - a really silly topic.
It comes down to the practicioner, not the style.
I've met people who studied both and gained a lot from doing so - they compliment each other.
Wing Chun has also had an influence on some PM teachers.
There are good and bad schools within each style, too.

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Stacy,
Your wing chun sifu friend should get out and meet more Mantis sifus. He's in for a surprise.

Mighty B,
You shoule get out and meet more Wing Chun Sifus. You'd be surprised.

[Tainan Mantis]

You need to try your MA on every style every chance you get.

i understand the WC guys point of view.
They have 3 forms and spend most time fighting.

Many PM guys have way too many forms.
What happened to PM's origial 3 forms?
Isn't 3 enough?

I spent a lot of time with WC folks of different branches.
Technically speaking, WC has a method of dealing with all PM techniques and vice versa.

So if the WC guy fights with his partners while the PM guy is still reviewing his forms who do you think will win?

[7*mantiskid]

a praying mantis fighter should be able to defeat a wing chun fighter. praying mantis covers all ranges of fighting so therefore they should have the advantage. plus, praying mantis is probably the most aggressive style of kung fu created. so whoever this guy is who beat all these mantis fighters, he should find someone with lots of experience and see if he can beat him

[jmd161]

Originally posted by 7*mantiskid
plus, praying mantis is probably the most aggressive style of kung fu created.


7*mantiskid,

I started to say something about your post ,but i'll leave it alone.Just remember that there are many styles of kung fu that are aggressive.It's good for someone to believe in their style ,but don't ever fool yourself about one being superior to another.

jmd:)

[KnightSabre]

It doesn't matter which one is better,
cause BJJ can beat them both :-)

LOL.

[jmd161]

Originally posted by KnightSabre
It doesn't matter which one is better,
cause BJJ can beat them both :-)

LOL.


:rolleyes:


jmd :)

[prana]

bwahahaha this is hilarious :D

[Repulsive Monkey]

yep that's right BJJ is superior in the old words of the mythical Ralek. Oh how we laughed back then too!!!!

[Former castleva]

This thread reminds me of "BJJ...best...yadda...********" stuff.

[OdderMensch]

I finally have a reason to use the ignore feature.

[Royal Dragon]

Personnally, I never liked Wing Chun. If I had the chance, I would do Mantis. If I was doing Mantis, i'd kick the stuffing out of alot of people. If I was doing Wing Chun I'd get kicked.

Why you ask?? Because Mantis better suites Me, that's why.

The art must fit the practitioner. If it does not, your not going to be very good at it. You have to enjoy what your doing. Have fun with it.
If I could just get some consistant training partners i'd beat the stuffing out of everyone wiht the Tai tzu I am learning off of video. Why, because I'm passionate about it. I love the research, the testing, the experimenting that comes from self study.

As for the whole "3 forms" thing, I tend to agree. In my book a dozen forms is more then enough to last a life time. Heck, I don't want to ever be very good at more than 9. 3 basic sets, 3 intermediate sets, and 3 advanced sets.

I supose it's ok to "Play" with more than that, but you need solid mastery in a few FIRST

Many styles today have 30, 40 or even 100 forms in them. I think that is an aweful lot to really master, and it is probably not even possible. If you can figure out which Mantis sets were the first, I would want to learn those and master them first, and forget the rest untill much, much later, if at all.

I say "If you want to collect forms, collect them on video"

[Tainan Mantis]

The first 3 forms are
Beng Bu
Luan jie
8 Elbows

They are not basic forms, but some later made forms are basic.
There are other older forms but they are all extinct now.

BJJ schools have teachers who weren't afraid to spar or fight with others, other kung fu styles should be this way if they want to talk about fight effectiveness.

7* mantiskid.
How do you figure mantis is the most aggressive?
Have you compared it to many other styles in free fighting?

[rogue]

Now this is the way KFO used to be before Sams article was posted on Mousels. That was a good time.:)

[Skarbromantis]

Tainan Mantis posted:

The first 3 forms are
Beng Bu
Luan jie
8 Elbows

"They are not basic forms, but some later made forms are basic.
There are other older forms but they are all extinct now."

How do we really know this?

Where was this info acquired?

And what were the other forms that are now extinct?

Skard1

[Royal Dragon]

I'm not sure where he got his info, but My Tai Tzu Sifu learned 7* Mantis long before he was doing Tai tzu,and his lineage seems to know the first original 3 forms as well.

I don't remeber all the names of them, but Bung Bo (Beng Bu) is suposed to be the very first of the original 3.

The fact that Tainan Mantis is in Tawian, and My Sifu is here tells me that the two lines are probably unrelated to one another. Since that is so, and both lines are in aggreement as to Bung Bo being one of the original 3, I'd say that at least gives strong credibility to his statemnet.

In my Tai Tzu research, I have found that looking at a number of unrelated lines, and comparing what they have in common has been a great asset in authenticateing information.

For example, If I have 3 lines that all agrree on the existance, structure and mechanics of a certain branch of the style, and then I have another that is way out in left field, or the curriclem resembles something normally thought of as a seperate and distinct art, (like well known internal arts) I think it's safe to say the 3 that aggree are correct, and the other is not.

Through this method of comparison of as many different unrelated sources as possible, one can figure things out, and be relatively confidiant what the truth is.

[Tainan Mantis]

Liang Hsuehsiang's manuscript lists beng bu, Luan jie and 8 Elbows as the original three forms.
Many branches of PM trace to him thru his students.
His students made and altered more forms and added them to the curriculum.

A supposedly older manuscript, from the mysterious Hseng Hsiao, lists PM forms that seem to be extinct.
Also, the names of those forms match the style given to form names from ancient days, such as "6 roads of mantis."

He includes names, theory as well as applications.

If you are in 7* PM than your theory is traced directly to this figure, or at least to manuscripts attributed to him.

He also has the oldest known manuscript on 18 Lohan, includes poems and drawings.

Maybe we could go into more details on the mantis forum

[count]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
Liang Hsuehsiang's manuscript lists beng bu, Luan jie and 8 Elbows as the original three forms.
Many branches of PM trace to him thru his students.
His students made and altered more forms and added them to the curriculum.

A supposedly older manuscript, from the mysterious Hseng Hsiao, lists PM forms that seem to be extinct.
Also, the names of those forms match the style given to form names from ancient days, such as "6 roads of mantis."

He includes names, theory as well as applications.

If you are in 7* PM than your theory is traced directly to this figure, or at least to manuscripts attributed to him.

He also has the oldest known manuscript on 18 Lohan, includes poems and drawings.

Maybe we could go into more details on the mantis forum

Well I for one always wondered why Praying Mantis had to be on a separate forum in the first place. What's the matter with details here? Just kidding around Tainan, good post as usual. ;)

[SirenOfAcreLane]

Originally posted by 7*mantiskid
a praying mantis fighter should be able to defeat a wing chun fighter. praying mantis covers all ranges of fighting so therefore they should have the advantage. plus, praying mantis is probably the most aggressive style of kung fu created. so whoever this guy is who beat all these mantis fighters, he should find someone with lots of experience and see if he can beat him

Whoa. I rarely flame people, but you are a colossal retard. Your ignorant post is wrong on so many levels that i cannot even begin to break it down. I would try, but i actually have a problem that prevents me from doing so...



...I'm allergic to stupid.

[SirenOfAcreLane]

One day, in the distant future, superhuman computers will be able to computationally analyse fighting arts without subconscious bias. It will use a formula similar to "This style vs. That style", and guage it's styles technique and martial application against the other without the interference of cumbersome human ability or interaction.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

*yawns*

[straight blast]

Whoa. I rarely flame people, but you are a colossal retard

Couldn't have said it better myself :)

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by 7*mantiskid
a praying mantis fighter should be able to defeat a wing chun fighter. praying mantis covers all ranges of fighting so therefore they should have the advantage. plus, praying mantis is probably the most aggressive style of kung fu created. so whoever this guy is who beat all these mantis fighters, he should find someone with lots of experience and see if he can beat him

Apparently you've never been on the recieving end of chain punches. Nor have you really looked at the art that much, because Wing Tsun does cover all 5 ranges of combat. 1.) Kicks 2.) Punches 3.) Elbows and knees 4.) Throws and joint locks and 5.) Grappling.

There is no superior style, its all in the practioner. Some people are better suited for one style than others. I myself couldn't perform Mantis because it hurts my legs when I try to drop my legs that low.

As far as aggressiveness, I got one guy in my class who is so aggressive, I'd put money down that you'd **** your pants if you had to fight him. It took me a LONG, LONG time before I finally got use to him, this guy just scared me for so long. Now I think he rules.

Aggressiveness also is on the practioner. You could give me 7 years training in 7* and I might not be as aggressive as a Hung Gar practioner after 2 weeks. That's another thing that the practioner is.

So in short, you kid, are very ignorant and I hope you become more intelligent before you hook up with someone in the gene pool. Until then, avoid the deep end or stay out.

[yuanfen]

silly thread. Folks should not be divisive between wing chun and mantis.

[Sharky]

"i understand the WC guys point of view.
They have 3 forms and spend most time fighting."

yeah, course they do :rolleyes:

the problem with wingchunners, is they i'd say that 90% dont' spend ANY time fighting.

the ones that DO are the ones to look out for, as they are usually pretty good when it comes to handing out arse whoopings.