Hero <<Ying Xiong>>

[Shaolin Master]

Hi all,

I watched Hero last week at the cinema and compared to all the hype that China (its all over TV and cinema seats are always full house requiring purchase in advance) has given the film with big names such as Jet Li, Maggie Cheung, Zhang Zi Yi ........ I found it to be more of the same.

Cinematography mimicked Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon(CTHD) from the camera angles in fights to even the flying around. Even the combat sounds and the drumming (that cool drumming from CTHD) is also in Hero.

Though it had interesting little action pieces the worst thing was the Story I mean even the name hero should be changed to Killing sword in Ten Steps not undertaken.

Anyway what did everyone else think.

Regards
Wu Chan Long

[dezhen2001]

thanks for the info :)

its not released here in the uk yet and i really hope it is soon. i also hope its worthwhile as it has had a lot of hype. I really wanna see something breathtaking from jet li, as i know he can do it and am fed up of the 'american' action - like tuxedo and the one... mediocre action at best :(

dawood

[GeneChing]

I have 3 questions for you:
1. Is it better or worse than CTHD?
2. Did you like CTHD?
3. Do you like Zhang Yimou?

[GeneChing]

Just get us the copies asap! Thanks for the advanced reports.

The papers said there was a big crackdown on internet cafes in China after a big lethal fire at one. Did that affect any of you in-China members?

[wangsizhong]

walked into my local vcd rental place today and the owner was kind enough to point out hero. i may not have the scruples/willpower of others so i rented it (obvious pirate job).
it started with that short trailer/advert spot that was mentioned so i was afraid it was just a "making of" thing that i saw mentioned on the li lian jie thread
but it was all there (just the 90 or so minute version).
video quality was good for a pirate vcd.

incidentally i had to pay 3 yuan rather than the usual 1 yuan to rent it and had to put 30 yuan on deposit rather than the usual 10 yuan...and they wanted it returned within two hours

all in all i really liked it. i'm not sure what more they're gonna put in the extra 30 minutes as it seemed pretty complete to me.

previously my favorite kung fu movies have been crouching tiger, taiji zhang san feng (tai chi master), and wu shi (the korean movie that i still havent seen in english), drunken master 2, and that shaolin movie with gordon liu where he has to go through all the training (was it 36 Chambers?).

so take this for what its worth but i thought it was as good or better than all of those. don't want to give any spoilers, so i won't comment on the fight scenes or the story, but i thought the story was well done.

the subtitles appeared to be incorporated into the film and varied very little from the chinese that i could understand, so all copies will probably have english in them.

wangsizhong

[dezhen2001]

interesting - maybe the man gets a hot kiss after all? :cool:

i got some contacts in china so i think i will have to see what i can do about the VCD :)

as for miramax :mad: why do they htink those who go to see a kung fu movie dont wanna see so much kung fu? :(

dawood

[firepalm]

Just got the DVD & the VCD, one sent from Hong Kong the other I picked up in Chinatown. Also just got Bullet Proof Monk (Chow Yuen Fat's latest), ironically they were reshooting the ending here in Vancouver.

Honestly I didn't enjoy Hero as much as CTHD. Although some of the action in Hero is executed a little better, I didn't feel filming of the action in Hero was a good as CTHD. As CHTD had a chemistry between the cast that helped drive the story that I didn't find in Hero.

Don't get me wrong I would still recommend Hero, it is a good film, well done (although even more over the top then CTHD) and definitely worth a watch if you are into the genre. :cool:

[dezhen2001]

cool, i like the fantasy/kung fu genre... "a man called hero" is one of my all time favourites, as well as the original Zu: warriors of magic mountain and samo's encounters of the spooky kind :)

dawood

[jun_erh]

Miramax has royally screwed up distribution 0f this and 0ther HK movies here in the states. They suck

[[Censored]]

Has the VCD been "released" on P2P? :)

I wouldn't mind paying $10 US for a copy (incl shipping), but the profiteers on eBay are asking $20-$30. :eek:

[[Censored]]

The "official" bbotleg has been recalled and the company is being sued. The official bootleg vcd is now off the shelves. But i still got my copy.

I may have misunderstood your meaning of "official". I thought the studio itself must have released a degraded copy.

How can ebay have something on dvd that is not yet released in North America in regular movie theaters?. And i take it that if they had it it would be the miramax verison.

No; it's easy to convert a VCD to DVD. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend the bootleg; the English subs are covered up by the seat in front of the camera. :)

[[Censored]]

So they released a vcd, NOT DVD, (no matter how easy it is to do a DVD).

What I meant is that anyone who has the VCD can turn it into a DVD on their home PC. And re-sell it as a DVD on eBay, if they are so unscrupulous.

The VCD they did release was a superior copy of filmed-in theater in Hong Kong with english subtitles. Everything, including the subtitles were quite clear. I guess when you are say "covered up by the seat in front of the camera" , you are just imagining what it might be instead of what is. I don't think it is on e-bay, you were probably thinking of what might be, not what is. Is that correct?

No, I didn't imagine it, I saw it. :) So there must be more than one version floating around. I don't know which version they are selling online.

[norther practitioner]

I've seen it on Ebay as well.

[hasayfu]

Finally got to see Hero in Malaysia this CNY.

Overall, I loved it. The music is reminiscint of CTHD. Other then that, very different.

The best fight seen was between Donnie Yen and Jet Li. Man, everytime those two fight on screen it's great.

CTHD seemed to have a more developed story but Hero wasn't bad. The filming was a bit artistic for my taste but it did lend to some epic scenes.

For all the people there, the fights were small scale. The arrows were cool.

Anyone know if the DVD is out yet? (real) I think it would worth getting. The story seemed a bit choppy.

[GeneChing]

We have a bootleg Taiwan VCD here where you can see the heads of people in the audience. I hear that the official VCDs and DVDs are to be released this month (FEB) so they should be surfacing pretty soon at your favorite chinatown shop or website.

U.S theatrical release was hinging on if it got nominated for an Oscar for international. I heard that it didn't. Anyone know for sure? I also heard that it was nominated for a Golden Globe but didn't win. Again, these are just rumors and I haven't gone to the trouble of validating them. Hopefully someone here can do that for us.

[GeneChing]

Right after I posted that, I picked up my email and there were several spam ads from DVD/VCD websites pushing pre-orders. According to them, the release is the 19th (today.) NOw I don't have to watch that Taiwan bootleg.

Question for those of you who've seen it - is it appropriate for children? What rating would you give it?

[hasayfu]

Man, I don't understand the rating system. This one has no real bloody scenes or cruel violence and the sex scene was prety tame.

So PG?

Does your kid watch this type of movie? I don't let mine. It's too dark. Then again, the powerpuff girls movie was much more violent and my kid cried during elmo's movie so what do I know.

I think it's a PG type movie. Not an R or even a PG-13.

I'll have to chek Chinatown this weekend if the Hero DVD is out in SF.

[GeneChing]

Nowadays kids that are our age can't even watch TV. It'd ridiculous. As for movies, I'd love to have to luxury to screen everything, but I barely have the luxury to see movies anymore. My kid watched Spiderman and that was ok. I'm always afraid of what will frighten her, but she thought the green goblin was funny, like aliens on star trek, and a lot of her classmates have seen spiderman so she recognises him right alongside bugs bunny, et. al. As for KF movies, if they're just fight flicks, like say Undaunted Wudang, I don't let her watch them yet. There's already issues about pushing at preschool soo why exacerbate it. But she enjoys Jackie, especially the slapstick, and she loves his cartoon but we seldom watch it anymore.

[[Censored]]

For those who ordered it online: where, and how much did you pay?

[GeneChing]

I thoroughly enjoyed Hero. What a spectacle. I can't wait to see it on the big screen instead of my tiny TV.

It's way overblown for Zhang Yimou, not at all what I was expecting given his earlier work. At first, the color usage reminded me more of Tsui Hark and the slo-mos reminded me of John Woo. The legion sequences echoed Kurosawa, but then, he broke the mold when it came to choreography on the massive army scale, so any ancient battle pales by comparison. What surprised me most was the use of CGI. The story is told in flashbacks, and there is another nod to Kurosawa akin to Ras****n.

Moreso, I loved the themes of swordsmanship as art and art as a vehicle for enlightenment. That really spoke to my soul. That "big picture" theme is what I was expecting from Zhang and as usual, he delivered with that kind of nagging imagery that comes back to you later. The overall message, the moral if you will, was beautiful and brilliant.

The fights were mediocre from a martial arts standpoint. Donnie vs. Jet is cool. I liked Maggie vs. Zhang for it's sureal quality (plus who can deny swordswoman cat fights?) It's high fantasy with lots of flying wire work, but entertainly executed. Traditionalists will complain about the wire work, but they can save their money for the Shaw Brothers rerelease. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=303)

As for the inevitable CTHD comparison, it's not another CTHD. It won't get that kind of recognition. It's not geared to westerners in the same popular vein. Plus CTHD cut a path that will be hard to follow up. That's too bad since I think more highly of Zhang Yimou then Ang Lee. But it will stand as one of the more magnificient martial arts movies in our oh-so-B-grade genre. I think many will look down on Hero because of this comparison, which is the real shame.

And my kid enjoyed it. She thought Jet was a really funny name and told me she could jump and fly like that someday. It was fairly bloodless and the one sex scene was more implied. My wife frowned at the stabbing, but wives do that sometimes, and for my daugther, they were off camera enough so it wasn't much different than Peter Pan vs. Capt. Hook.

[GeneChing]

You know, I've encountered the Ras****n problem previously and forgot. I think it's kinda funny myself. I mean really, how do you effectively censor the net?

I did not do the ball and sword test. I thought about it, but given my background and the fact that my wife is a Yoga teacher, we figured the logical class to enroll her in was trapeze school. She will find her path, no doubt.

The CTHD comparison will really hurt Hero. It's sad because Hero is truly a magnificent work and a great tale of wude. CTHD was more of a romance with wude undertones. But I think the music and the presence of Zhang Ziyi will make the comparison inevitable and Hero will lose on the popular front.

One more thing I'd like to add to my review. In classic Zhang Yimou style, the women really shine. He can really direct women. Maggie and Zhang Ziyi turn in the best performances. Tony Leung's work was engaging but somewhat helpless. Jet was so stoic Chuck Norris could have done that part. But Zhang Ziyi's small part had some great emotion to it - she has such beautiful neck muscles that flair right on cue. And to think that she's done fights scenes now with all the big martial stars. As for Maggie, well, I've been in love with Maggie since when she was Jackie's helpless girlfriend. I even loyally sat through Irma Vep. It's great to see her get past the cute girl (almost kogal if she were Japanese) role and take on more mature women. Her performance was the most powerful.

[friday]

i recently saw a version with only mandarin
didn't understand much of it so i just looked at the pictures :D

didn't really understand the story...
:(
so i only thought it was average.

[Mr. Bao]

I just got the Miramax and Chinese production "HERO" which has Tong Leung, Maggie Cheung (both famous HK actors known for in Wong Kar Wai's flims), Jet Li, and Donnie Yen. It is an awesome kung fu movie much like Couching Tiger and Hidden Dragon in terms of budget, beautiful dresses, colors, and landscapes, and of course flying type kung fu. It is out on VCD and there are bootlegs DVDs, but much more intellectual than Ang Lee's flim.

I highly recommend that you go to your local chinese video stores and purchase this VCD, it does have english sub titles. The fight scene between Jet Li and Donne Yen is nice. Tong Leung and Maggie Cheung were beautiful actors and I always loved their body of work when they work together.

[hakka mui]

I watched "Hero" last night.

I thought some of the fight scenes were good when they weren't flying around but overall I would rate it as average.

The political aspect of it all left a bad taste in my mouth though - the unification of China through military force.

Glad I didn't pay to watch it at the cinema.

hakka mui

[Silent Assassin]

I've seen it. Love it.

It's a gorgeous movie.

Would recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

:cool:

[GeneChing]

I think viewers need to understand who Qin was and what he did. That's a critical part of the plotline, as well as the myth that Hero was retelling. With that knowledge, we know pretty much what is going to happen from the introduction. For those familiar with Chinese legend and history, it's a lot like watching a retelling of Arthurian legend.

[Design Sifu]

or The Emperor & the Assassin

[[Censored]]

Overall, I'd also rate "Emperor and the Assassin" as a slightly better movie--if you aren't interested in fight choreography.

Gene ruined Hero for me. I had never intended to interpret every scene as an inferior version of CTHD...until he told me that it was inevitable. ;)

[GeneChing]

Sorry dude, but if it wasn't me, it would have been someone else. :p

[David Jamieson]

Just saw it. Loved it!

It makes Ben Hur look like an epic.

seriously though, the colours were superb, the cinematography was lush and crisp.

the swordplay choreography was excellent and the dream sequence fights were some of the best wire work I've seen. (prolly cuz da folks on teh wires are pretty good at it :) )

the story was very well told.

Overall, I'd give this flick a 9 out of 10. Cause, noones perfect.

The Emperor was Qin xi Huang Ti is that correct or is it a later period emperor qin?

anyway, no matter, you don't need to know anything about chinese history to enjoy this flick. It is definitely one of Li's better ones.

cheers

[GeneChing]

Shame about the nomination last night. Somehow, I was really skeptical that Hero would get anything, again under the shadow of CTHD, but I was still hoping...

[Hanna B]

Originally posted by hakka mui
The political aspect of it all left a bad taste in my mouth though - the unification of China through military force. Agreed!

Hasn't Zhang Yimou had kind of a reputation of being aginst the regime? This movie can only be interpreted the other way around. But, maybe it should not be interpreted.

[GeneChing]

This is why I think you DO need to know China's history - it's not about military might, it's about emperor Qin, the first emperor and China's founder. If you don't understand the context of Qin, you might interpret it all as military might. All the dynasties begin with a military overthrow, then collapse under the weight of their own opulence. Such is the history of China.

Anyways, we got Hero for you now, on DVD, for region 1 (USA & Canada DVD platform. Hero - $19.95 (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/dvd40028.html) Get 'em while the last!

[Hanna B]

OTOH, it is quite possible to tell things about modern times without shouting them out too loudly, if you set your stories in ancient times. It was my impression that Zhang Yimou has done this a few times. But, maybe not in this one.

[David Jamieson]

All the dynasties begin with a military overthrow, then collapse under the weight of their own opulence. Such is the history of China.

Such is the history of the world. :D

cheers

[GeneChing]

I just saw Hero again - this time on DVD (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/newdvd.html) on a fat widscreen TV with the full on surround sound hook up (my initial viewing was off a bootleg VCD.) It was an extraordinary experience. Hero is becoming my pick for the most beautiful martial arts film of all time. Unfortunately, I still think it will go past most people. It doesn't have enough martial arts to satisfy fight scene junkies and it's a bit complex for the average viewer. But in terms of the over all message and the spectacle, it is beginning to rival The Seven Samurai (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/movakkurmifs1.html) as one of my all time favorite martial movies.

[Kristoffer]

I think Hero is alot better than CTHD. It has a better flow in the movie and it's story is more complex but really quite simple. Dare I say, more beautiful than CTHD? yeah I do :D
The only thing that I liked better about CTHD was the music....
Coco Lee - a love before time (chinese version)
Musical poetry :o

[kenso]

Originally posted by GeneChing
I just saw Hero again - this time on DVD (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/newdvd.html) on a fat widscreen TV with the full on surround sound hook up (my initial viewing was off a bootleg VCD.) It was an extraordinary experience. Hero is becoming my pick for the most beautiful martial arts film of all time. Unfortunately, I still think it will go past most people. It doesn't have enough martial arts to satisfy fight scene junkies and it's a bit complex for the average viewer. But in terms of the over all message and the spectacle, it is beginning to rival The Seven Samurai (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/movakkurmifs1.html) as one of my all time favorite martial movies.
*Gasp* Blasphemy! LOL

[GeneChing]

It's not there yet. Mind you, I've seen Seven Samurai on the big screen several times and I have yet to see Hero there. I'd have to see Hero a few dozen more times before it gets close to Seven Samurai, but I might do that.

Was that the blasphemy?

[joedoe]

I thought it was a good flick. I didn't appreciate the political message, but putting that aside I really enjoyed the movie.

Dezhen - I'll burn you a copy when you are in town.

[GeneChing]

That's interesting. The political message has come up here before, but it didn't really bother me. Perhaps because I know something about the history of the first emperor, it all made sense. What bothered you so much about it exactly?