Was Hung Gar incomplete before Tit Kiu Sam?

[illusionfist]

When people start talking about the real advanced stuff in hung gar, Tid Sin Kuen usually comes up and it is referred as the highest of the forms. So we know that Tit Kiu Sam was the one who introduced it and Wong Kei Ying and Wong Fei Hung all passed it down the lineage. But what about before Tit Kiu Sam, what do you think hung gar was like? Is the hung gar that we think of now all attributed to him? What would have been the internal training before iron wire (if there was any)? I know that gung gee has an internal aspect to it (and gung gee is considered to be the invention of hung hei gwun), but i don't think that we can say it's expansive enough. So what do you all think? I hope this makes sense... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Hopefully those of you with more history knowledge can help out with this.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by illusionfist (edited 07-18-2000).]

[S.Bey]

Greetings
Tit Kiu Sam art was Sil Lum Hung Kuen, and his friendship with Wong Kei Ying stemmed from the two being kung fu brothers; both their educations coming from the same source. In fact, Tit Kiu Sam's contribution, the Tit Sin Kuen, WAS and IS Wong Kei Ying's Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen, done with extensive concepts ('12 bridges') and the advanced hei gung. Thus when we arrive at Tit Sin Kuen in our training we have come full circle, and as such our performance of Gung Ji should actually look like the Tit Sin Kuen.

S.Bey

[Lost_Disciple]

Not that I know jack about hung gar, but I've tried to read up on it whenever possible.
First, I thought Gung Ji was a form from Gee Sim See (sp? the abbot who taught hung); the only difference between what hung was taught, and what is taught now, being one small section.

From what you've told me, what I've heard, and what I've read; I agree with S.Bey, that Gung Ji is/was the system, and that all forms eventually lead back there. Which means, that you could've done the original form in that manner in the first place with similar results, as opposed to learning something entirely different & applying the info. So as long as that was in the old Hung Gar, then yah, I would assume it was complete- though I'm having a hard time understanding how hung gar can be applied to the ground. Well, for most kung fu styles anyway, for the ground, you merely apply the same principles that you use standing up. If you've gained the understanding of the style, you should be able to use it in a pool, on a space station, or standing on your head. I guess my problem is not understanding the translation, but merely lack of sufficient knowledge of hung gar & it's principles. So I'll just shut up now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW- I found a book at the book store called "Taming the Tiger". It's a Tibetian buddhist book, but I think the idea is common to Cha'an. Apparently "Fook Fu" is a Buddhist philosophy. The book's got a lot of theory and even some meditative exercises. I gave it to sifu to read, so he'll let me know if it's any value in addition to the hung gar form. Been reading up a LOT on buddhism lately myself. I'm starting to understand a lot more.

PPS- I gotta find a way to do the ching wu gung lek form in 15 seconds...it takes me 40 right now (though I'm usually flustered once I know I'm over-time).

Laterz bro

[illusionfist]

gung lek in 15 seconds? May the force be with you my friend!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Email me man, always neglectin a brotha.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif