View Full Version : Highlander/the wing chun/crane connection
06-13-2000, 09:49 PM
In the history of wing chun, the originator
of the style was a woman, who wanted to better defend herself from the men who were stronger than she, this woman was a crane stylist and all the concepts of crane were implemented into this style of hers. AS I understand it from my study of crane, the movements are very evasive and fast, it is mainly a counter fighters art. the movements
primarily with the hands and fore arms and shoulders are trademarks of the crane way of fighting, such as blocking a punch with your elbow crossing over and them immediatley countering with a jab to the eyes
with the same blocking arm. the body mechanics are that of crane,, being loose in the torso so as not to go up head to head with your opponent especially if he is stronger than you, so...you redirect to the side and play the angles with your opponent.
golly i wish i could just show you, highlander. im sure others have explanations
that will surpass mine. i am more of a shower than a talker,,actually i am both. ill reply more on this once i organize my thoughts more.................
06-13-2000, 10:17 PM
Thanks. The redirecting to the side and playing the angles does sound alot like controlling the centerline and attacking the weak points in the opponents structure that we use in WC. And I know what you mean about it being easier to show then tell. So if you know of a specific Crane form that I might be able to get a copy of, then I might see how they apply these principles and that might give me some ideas to better utilize my WC.
06-14-2000, 12:47 AM
Hi Drunken and Highlander,
Great post! I love technical stuff. I a firm believer in the Nun Ng Mui and Lady Yim as the creator of the style, althought other tales have their own merits. The point I want to make is that there is a great moral behind the feminine connection which is "4 taels can redirect a ton of force". Today's Kung Fu especially in North American the "Gong" (hard aspect) is more emphasized than the "Yau" (soft aspect). Somehow somewhere down the line, martial arts adepted to the macho psychique of the masses. Remember Ali's triumphant strategy against George Foreman? The rope-a-dope is a fine example of "Yau" tramples "Gong". Most people believe that being humble, non confrontational, or showing any trait of femininety is not a "smart" strategy in today's world. But this kind of balance is exactly what martial arts best at and can contribute to society. I just thought that this is really good food for thought.
Personally, I watch Discovery and PBS Channal's on animals in the wild a lot. There are quit a few things that are consistant with the "principles" of the animal styles. The crane for example rest/sleep with one leg up (perfect balance). It engages and disengages at will (took flight and re-enter at a different angle. IMHO, I think nature has great many teachers. Only when we are ready to empty our cups than we can receive "mother" nature's teaching.
Peace to all
Contraria Sunt Complementa
Great post 108! It's nice to see some insightfulness on this often frustrating site...
06-14-2000, 02:13 AM
just to add my 2 cents;
crane is mainly a long range fighting style that emphasizes evasion, and whipping strikes to vital points. (often employing the pheonix eye fist, and 'wing' blocks.)
also, an important note; most karate styles are derrivative from crane forms; only *******ized over the years, due to a jealous guarding of secrets.
the 'hard' execution of karate blocks originated in the 'soft' and flexible re-directions of the crane.
06-14-2000, 04:25 AM
there's lots of crane styles. some look alot like wing chun and step alike too.
06-14-2000, 05:52 AM
yes,yes,yes,today guys especially are all yang and no yin,thats one of the biggest downfalls of a non experienced fighter,I believe that more often than not a fight comes down to endurance more than anything else,therefore a yin approach is absolutely vital to conserve your energies and expend your opponents,as well as keep them off balance and guessing.
I have also heard but haven't found much info on a story about Mok Gwai Lan being one of the grandaughters or great grandaughters of Yim. Mok Gwai Lan was the wife of Wong Fai Hung. This is my lineage and you can tell that there is a feminine influence, at least compared to the other Hung gar stylists I have seen. I also do this short crane form that not a lot other stylists seem to know. I was told that she only taught women. I would love to know more about her. If any of you have any history on her, please let me know. Many thanks
06-14-2000, 08:09 AM
Hi Tigerlilly, you're from Mok Gwai Lan branch of hung gar?!?! That's pretty rare, I wouldnt mind corresponding privately in email with you.
I think my sifu met Mok Gwai Lan a few times at his master's school and some official dinners. Apparently when she was 87 years old she did powerful performance of Fu Hok Seung Ying on HKTV. People said she had more power than an athletic young man.
I do know that she was in charge of teaching women and took care of most of the gynecology at Po Chi Lam. Also, she was an expert in Mok Gar kung fu before she met her husband.
06-14-2000, 10:38 AM
Just a little something to add . wing chun is snake and crane style, same way that hung gar is tiger, crane. Not many people know it that way because most learn from yip mans lineages
some crane is still there like fuk sau, and snake like biu jee. But its very watered down snake and crane nowadays.
06-14-2000, 10:51 PM
If you are saying wing chun is snake and crane the same way hung gar is tiger and crane, then you must mean that it has a little bit of flavor or emphasis in that respect, but has a huge repertoire of other techniques.
A big thing that a lot of crappy hung gar masters insist on is that hung gar is the "tiger crane" style. What a bunch of crap. Hung gar is actually southern shaolin. Hung gar is five animals and five elements. Hung gar has techniques from the 5 major southern family styles. Also, there is a famous saying "hung tao, choy mei". Meaning hung in the beginning, choy in the end, showing the connection between the two styles.
Whoohoo! finally! Someone who knows about my lineage! I was told it was very rare, but I didn't realize how rare until I started talking to other KF stylists online. I would love to see that demonstation or even a picture of her!I have heard a few very interesting stories about mainly how strong she was. I am very proud to be a woman carrying on her lineage. I think my e-mail address is in my profile, you are most welcome to write Paul!
06-16-2000, 10:26 AM
Sorry, your profile says your email is not available. It's a problem with www.kungfuonline. (http://www.kungfuonline.) Mine should be showing as well, but it isn't.
You can reach me at hung_ga @ hotmail.com
I believe the "crane" in WC to be the shorthand Fukien White Crane System which can be compared to many of the other shorthand southern systems including WC and the Hak Ga styles.
Also, I've heard that the Hung kuen is referred to as Tiger-Crane because Wong Fei-Hung revised and expanded the Fu Hok Kuen to include most, if not all, of his favorite material from the other original Hung Kuen forms(taming the tiger, plum flower fist, iron thread et al) because he enjoyed the daily practice of one large form over several small ones. Therefore, his huge Fu Hok Kuen bears little resemblance to the original.
06-16-2000, 10:24 PM
Thanks MoQ for your kind words. There are seldom peaceful discussions on the forum lately. One of the attributes of Ying is to listen to your opponent's force, power, intention, etc... The concept of yielding (not benting over)is somehow not incuded in the repetoir of some of or members. Sometimes it feels like as if you are sparring with an opponent whose sole purpose is to throw as many hits as s/he can and score some silly points to impress the audience while the match is more about finding out the contestants own strength and weaknesses. It is quit amusing and at times quit annonying even thoung it is a verbal sparring ring. What happen here is certainly refreshing. Thank you.
Peace to all
Contraria Sunt Complementa
07-08-2000, 03:53 AM
I've heard that the crane style does have have any blocks. They rather crack your elbow or funny bone instead.
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.