tension in legs

[jonp]

hey all

WT seems to advocate tension in the legs (pulling knees and thighs together, keepin gluteus maximus and sphincter tight in YJKM)

do any other lineages do this?

i thought that tense muscles impaired chi flow - if this is the case surely keepin the legs in tension is not a good thing?

can anybody help me out?

jon

[{i^(]

In the Ken Chung line, the idea is to 'settle' into the stance, kind of like melting. The idea of tension is counter-productive. In YGKMA, we tend to see it sinking into it and the knees, etc. naturally coming together, without pulling. 'Ting yu', the sphincter deal: have you tried instead a more gentle approach? Think, maybe, of the 'splashback' effect, if you catch my drift...;-)

In WT, do you mean 'seems to' or do you mean 'in fact, it does'? It could be a matter of length of time spent in stance as well- it takes awhile to do that settling...

[Tristan]

Can anybody help him out. I´m also curious!

[{i^(]

I can't speak very much on the chi thing- I tend to regard chi the same as pixies doing my dishes: it'd be nice, but don't hold your breath, so just do it & stop being a slug, you know?

check the standing qiqong thread in the qiqong forum for that- its just getting started.

[S.Teebas]

Tension in any muscle compromises its ability to react; in relation to relaxed muscle.


Think, maybe, of the 'splashback' effect, if you catch my drift...;-)

Ewwwoo.. bad imagery dude.. :eek:

[{i^(]

but if you stand up, what stance are ya in, hanh? makes me wonder.....

[jonp]

hey.

thanks for your replies.

From my knowledge WT 'in fact does' use tension in the legs.

it was only recently i re-heard this from a sihing (tension in legs)
ive been using an approach more similar to what {i^( uses - just sinking in and gently raising my pelvis - feels natural and springy.

it could be the leg tension is training? like some lineages use tension on the huen sao to train the forearm muscles and sinews.

personally i feel that there should be no 'active' tension there, as teebas says a tense muscle is slower than a slower one, and from what ive learned so far WT seems a very 'soft' (not an ideal word i know) lineage.

then again ive only been practicing 10 months - any more experienced WT'ers wanna put me in my place :D

splashback and sphincters - not something im keen to explore
:)

[Alpha Dog]

Legs are your source of play, delivering opportunities to the hands

[anerlich]

IMO the stance should be as relaxed as possible, with the skeleton aligned so that the weight is supported by tendons and ligaments rather than the musculature. To me, this is what "tendon strength" is all about.

The tightening of the perinium and other muscles of the pelvic floor is a mainstay for qigong, yoga, many CMA and the approach to lifting heavy weights espoused by Pavel Tsatsouline, among others.

[Mattie P]

I train WT and the only time we're told to do this is during SLT. I believe it is there to train proper stance and rooting.

[Alpha Dog]

what about when doing chisao?

[Mattie P]

No.

[Mattie P]

BTW. I trainin Vancouver and My Sifu is Ralph Haenel.

Leung Ting>Keith Kernschpect (is that his name?)>my Sifu.

[Alpha Dog]

So you guys don't do any stance during chisao, huh? interesting. how does it feel?

[Mattie P]

We do stance training. I just don't clench up my ass cheeks like I'm fighting off prison rape.

It helps during SLT when we do it really slow for like an hour. Sometimes I can get lazy and my structure suffers. Some leg tension seems to help me.

I'm not a big fan of the ass clenching, btw.

[Alpha Dog]

What you do with your buttocks is really your business. I was only asking if you "played" at chisao in stance or not.

Buttocks plus play is making me uncomfortable so I will just leave this subject alone.

[{i^(]

ouchie! That 'prison rape' comment is worse than my imagery!

Yes, we 'play' chi sao in stance, and pay attention as much as possible to all particulars. The unofficial adage is: if you have a problem in chi sao, its likely to be solved through the stance.

As anerlich wrote, in his 2nd paragraph, the muscles involved are not 'the cheeks' but the interior of the posterior, as it were. And a lot of people are uncomfortable talking about it, so it's not surprisisng that it is misunderstood.

FWIW: in Western medicine, urologists commonly recommend exercises that flex these areas to prevent cancer and erectile dysfunction- which, I'll note, is what qi qong claims to do.

[AndrewS]

From a WT perspective-

Certain portions of the musculature of the leg are activated during the stance (and, from what I can tell, **** near always).

The *position* of the stance can be achieved with relaxed alignment alone- the muscles don't haul you into this position.

The long adductors and a portion of the hamstrings are activated , pulling the pelvis forward (generating some of 'forward pressure), and linking the two legs. This 'loads' you for a front step, provides a portion of forward pressure, seems to stabilize you a bit, and keeps the pelvis from twisting in the direction of a forward leg (from the activation of the deep hip flexors).

The buttocks (glut medius, piriformis, and I think the TFL), externally rotate the hip on the pelvis, 'squeezing' it forward and providing an element of forward pressure, providing another element of a twisting line of muscular activation in the legs used for sinking/stabilization/power evolution.

IMHO, the 'sphincter lift' is activation of the pelvic floor musculature, providing a line of connection between sacrum and the bottom of the pelvis (pubic bone, basically). This, in combination with transversus abdominus activation ('suck in your gut' without much rectus activation), allows you get the 'forward and under' hip alignment which we use in WT.

I think this muscle usage should be enough to achieve connection with various other bits relaxed.

FWIW,

Andrew

[Gandolf269]

A fellow WT student once asked our sifu whether to tighten the sphincter in an effort to help with the aduction (pulling the knees together) of the legs (she had read about it on the internet) and he said not to that but to just rotate the hips forward (Shou Kwong) and to tuck in the stomach (Sau Fook). We are taught to pull the knees together especially during the early stages of our training, after awhile keeping the knees together (aduction) requires less concious effort to retain this muscle tension.