Mr Punch
08-01-2002, 11:50 AM
Oh the cheek :o ! Sorry Wingman, I thought this was a very well-explained post so I thought I'd use it to start a new thread discussion...!
at least 3 moves ahead
When doing chi sao, I plan at least 3 moves ahead just like in chess. You might say that it's not going to work because you cannot predict how your opponent will react. You may be right. But you can limit his options so that you can predict with some accuracy what his next moves will be. That's what chi sao is all about -- "listening" to your opponent to know his intentions.
For example:
Your opponent attacks and you counter with a tan da. His best option would probably be a pak sao with his free hand... Well, maybe not a pak sao, but his best option would be to use his free hand. Knowing this, you can prepare to deal with his free hand and maybe trap it. After he is trapped, you can end with a strike.
Of course, he can use his attacking hand to bong sao. But it may not be his best option because your tan sao can easily convert into a lop sao (grab) and control his arm.
In an ideal situation, the techniques stated above will work. But in the real world, it may not. Why? Because your opponent has also plans of his own. He is also planning at least 3 moves ahead!
This is what makes chi sao interesting. It is as much a mind game as it is a physical one.
And thanks and apologies to S.Teebas for the following!
True to Wc ideals, the response is never forced. But after thousands of repetitions and experimenting with/and experiencing reactions in relation to force and the outcome that a structure will form..in relation to certain input. A 'catalogue' of common or 'expected' responses will be ingrained. These are used to set-up someone.
After the reactive stage of chi sau, comes a pro-active one. Of course this can only be done by a practioner who has a lot of experience/high level of skill. Something i'm aiming for!
Do you think the chi sao as chess analogy is useful?
Many people use this analogy, and I like it, but I don't like to use it. It still gets you into a mode of thinking/reflex action where YOU too have an expected response. YOU too work in a sequence.
So how can you be truly intuitive and flexible in your reflex, as you would need in a fight?
I don't really buy the chess reflex as being anything other than useful for chi sao for its own sake.
And would somebody who agrees with the analogy (preferably S.Teebas... ;)) please define pro-active, especially in relation to chi sao and/or general wingchun principles.
Cheers all!
at least 3 moves ahead
When doing chi sao, I plan at least 3 moves ahead just like in chess. You might say that it's not going to work because you cannot predict how your opponent will react. You may be right. But you can limit his options so that you can predict with some accuracy what his next moves will be. That's what chi sao is all about -- "listening" to your opponent to know his intentions.
For example:
Your opponent attacks and you counter with a tan da. His best option would probably be a pak sao with his free hand... Well, maybe not a pak sao, but his best option would be to use his free hand. Knowing this, you can prepare to deal with his free hand and maybe trap it. After he is trapped, you can end with a strike.
Of course, he can use his attacking hand to bong sao. But it may not be his best option because your tan sao can easily convert into a lop sao (grab) and control his arm.
In an ideal situation, the techniques stated above will work. But in the real world, it may not. Why? Because your opponent has also plans of his own. He is also planning at least 3 moves ahead!
This is what makes chi sao interesting. It is as much a mind game as it is a physical one.
And thanks and apologies to S.Teebas for the following!
True to Wc ideals, the response is never forced. But after thousands of repetitions and experimenting with/and experiencing reactions in relation to force and the outcome that a structure will form..in relation to certain input. A 'catalogue' of common or 'expected' responses will be ingrained. These are used to set-up someone.
After the reactive stage of chi sau, comes a pro-active one. Of course this can only be done by a practioner who has a lot of experience/high level of skill. Something i'm aiming for!
Do you think the chi sao as chess analogy is useful?
Many people use this analogy, and I like it, but I don't like to use it. It still gets you into a mode of thinking/reflex action where YOU too have an expected response. YOU too work in a sequence.
So how can you be truly intuitive and flexible in your reflex, as you would need in a fight?
I don't really buy the chess reflex as being anything other than useful for chi sao for its own sake.
And would somebody who agrees with the analogy (preferably S.Teebas... ;)) please define pro-active, especially in relation to chi sao and/or general wingchun principles.
Cheers all!