Ebmas & Wt

[AdrianUK]

Hi All

I am pondering studying both these systems. I currently do WT under the NWTO and one of the clubs I used to train at has joined the EBMAS UK. Now what I would like to know is how different are the systems ? From the little I did during the switch the differences found where feet were 60% not 45% and penetrating steps were deeper. From talking to people still training at the club they are doing a lot of pad work and general fitness, is this a theme in EBMAS ? Basically I am hoping to improve my general standard without creating a confused mix, so any info would be great

Thanks in advance

[KenWingJitsu]

What is NWTO? EBMAS is Emin's off-shhot of WT, so you can expect one of the most effective wing chun systems out there.

[AdrianUK]

NWTO is the English branch of the EWTO

[Ish]

so whats EWTO?

[stuartm]

European Wing Tsun Organisation under Leung Ting and Keith Kernspecht.

[cobra]

I have chosen to stay under Leung Ting from the start of the split and have seen the benefits already, one of them being that the higher ranks are getting something that was lacking before... training!!! Also the training seems to have returned to more traditional training instead of what someone decides that week that they will incorporate into the system based popular trends. Don't get me wrong, I didn't think the training was bad before, but it has definitely taken a turn for the better. The seminars are better and I think it is good to bring in people from other places to do seminars instead of the same person all the time. This bit of diversity has opened my eyes as to what is to come in the future for my WingTsun. Hope I didn't **** anyone off, just trying to tell you from my perspective. Good luck in whatever decicion you make.

Scott

[Peter Aarts]

Competition is good for business (and you got better service). At the end, everyone is better off!
So the EWTO in fact should be glad to see different off-shots from their organisation.

Peter.

[jweir]

I also stuck with Leung Ting after the AWTO died. I won't say anything about whose organization is better because I don't know enough about EBMAS to pass judgement, but I will say that things have gotten a lot cheaper since the split. The prices on everything (seminars, classes, equipment, etc.) have dropped substantially. So if money is a major issue, I'd go with the NWTO.

[KenWingJitsu]

Funny...I could say the same thing about the EBMAS branch.....especially that it's more sparring oriented, more resistance oriented or more realistic than before...but then again, that's what I like.

[Sihing73]

Hi All,

Just droped in to remind everyone not to let things get too political. Each organization has something to offer for those who are interested in that approach.

When you find an instructor whom you feel comfortable with and trains you to satisfaction then you are ahead of the game. In the end different methods and organizations are merely means to an end, not the end itself.

I am glad that members of both organizations, and others as well, have found satisfaction. Lets keep it at that and leave politics and personalities at the door.

Peace,

Dave

[AdrianUK]

Thanks for the replies

Sihing73

This was not a political thread, what the situation is

The NWTO class is very chi sau based, very technical, the EBMAS class is very sparring based, I like both and just wanted to know if EBMAS was going to say do tan this way and WT say do it this way, etc. What I was trying to avoid is learning 2 ways to do a lot of moves and not working each system on its own merits. Money wise they are both very good and both instructors very skilled its purely a syllabus query

So, anyone wanting to post personal feelings about either system, well I have heard it all before, thanks anyway !

Respect to all

[Sihing73]

Hi AdrianUK,

I did not say it had become political just kind of dropping a note to keep things from getting there.

Actually, the thread was/has a decent discussion going and presenting views from both sides in an atmosphere which was kind of refreshing. Given the portenial feelings.

If I jumped the gun it could be because I am browsing more due to lack of time. However, as long as things don't get too personal things can be discussed in great detail and with conflicting views and the addition of respect for one another.

If any took offense my appoligies I did not mean to imply anyone had over stepped the boundaries just wanted to put it out there to head it off, so to speak.


Peace,

Dave

[Big Vern]

hi there, what is interesting about this split is that it is quite natural to leave home once your mentor has filled your jug so to speak.
nick smart and milan prosenicia both left wt over 7 years ago now, and what is amazing is that nick smarts complete instructor base went with him. leaving no wt in the UK until the NWCA handed over their complete organisation to the EWTO, did they not think it was strange for a whole organisation lock,stock and barrel to leave.
men like emin, nick and milan are leaders born and have all become masters and will carry on evolving wt in how they see fit.
i personally prefer the sparring based groups thats why i am with nick smarts autodefence wingtchun group as they spar every class, and have protective equipment available for hands,knees,elbows,shins and groin.
god bless rebellion and evolution, cults are for zeros.

[iblis73]

After coming back to a WT school after the split I'm probably going to join the EBMAS in a neighboring city. For someone like myself who is only interested in effective training for streetfighting, the EBMAS seems more rigorous. While they may incorporate training methods that appear "trendy" one should ponder not whether your training is trendy but EFFECTIVE, especially when your a** is on the line. Plus I believe its been stated before that the fitness level seems to be greater.

BTW, I'm also picking up an excellent instructor in BJJ/Muay Thai. After years of excuses I want my training to be REALLY complete.

[Peter Aarts]

Do you think you are able to practice these two styles in harmony? I mean EBMAS WT & Muay Thai. As the fighting principles of both are totally different.


Peter.

[iblis73]

First I should state that I will be starting the BJJ/MT training before EBMAS. The MT training will help no doubt-it is rigorous, it develops speed and power. If I do any sparring it will improve my timing,sense of distance, etc.

Technique wise there is great similarity between the two, especially in regards to elbow/knee techniques and defenses. In all reallity I'll probably just adopt the wt/ebmas fight strategy to the MT techniques. That is, move in ASAP and overwhelm w/knees,elbows and punches. Other than that modification I don't see much of a conflict yet.

[KenWingJitsu]

Iblis 73...GOOD FOR YOU!

I do both also, and that's how I spar. I rush in & overwhelm WT style. They go well hand in hand.

Adrian UK EBMAS is STILL WT heart & soul. The basics will be the same.

[AdrianUK]

Thanks for the replies everyone, looks like I am safe to dabble then

[Neo]

Hi Adrian

As you are in Surrey, I take it you must be going to one of Andy Cross's classes? I teach EBMAS in Luton (I joined up straight away when Si-Fu Emin left), and believe me, its more to do with the way in which you train, not what is being trained. EBMAS training reflects the way in which Si-Fu Emin trains - yes it seems more physical, using pads etc, but that is also there in nWTo, it may not have been emphasised enough. The classical system is still the same, the lat sao is different, but, I guess, has more of a "fighter feeling" about it.

Go to both, give the EBMAS way a chance (I know Andy has just got back from training at the LA headquarters so will have had time to see/feel the differences) and you will become a better fighter.

Best Wishes
Neo

[AdrianUK]

Neo

Yes I would be training with Andy. If he had not been out of the country I probably would have gone down to his class for a chat. As it is I intend to catch up with him soon and see how things are.

Thanks for the replies, once again !

[Neo]

Adrian

Don't forget that we have the seminar in May, with Si-fu Emin on Saturday, followed by GM Rene Latosa and Master Steve Tappin on Sunday with Si-Emin. Speak to Andy Cross, he will tell you how good its going to be!

Si-Fu Emin Boztepe, Grandmaster Rene Latosa and master Steve Tappin

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE UK A CHANCE TO TRAIN WITH SIFU EMIN, FOUNDER OF EBMAS, &
GRANDMASTER RENE LATOSA WHO FIRST INTRODUCED ESCRIMA TO EUROPE.
ASSISTED BY MASTER STEVE TAPPIN, MASTER BRIAN JONES AND OTHERS

SEMINAR DATES & TIMES
SATURDAY 4th MAY 2002 12.00 - 16.00 hrs / 16.30 - 18.30 hrs
DYNAMIC Training with SIFU EMIN (Including sections of HIS Anti-Grappling Programme)

SUNDAY 5th MAY 2002 11.30 - 13.30 hrs / 14.30 - 16.30 hrs

Training with GM RENE LATOSA using HIS Intensive, Explosive, Progressive and Conceptional Escrima
(A Proven, Effective, Honest and Direct 'Weapons System' taught to many Police and Security Forces)

SUNDAY 5th MAY 16.30 + hrs a 'SPECIAL CLASS' for anyone who attends the seminars with
SIFU EMIN and GM RENE LATOSA
for discussion, questions and answers, photographs and membership enquiries to EBMAS

Venue Details
Hemel Hempstead Sports Centre
Park Road
Hemel Hempstead
Hertfordshire
HP1 1JS
(Off Junction 8 of M1)

COSTS OF SEMINARS
Saturday 4th May £40
(£35 EBMAS members)
Sunday 5th May £40
(£35 EBMAS members)
Both Days £70
(£60 EBMAS members)

For further information contact:
Alasdair Kirby
Home: 01582 595330
Mob: 07890 424333
Email: wingtsun@orange.net
Web: ebmas.co.uk